Threatened with physical violence

jackthetrader · 23-01-2014 1:16pm #1

A neighbour threatened me the other day. We were having a verbal row over the way my car was parked near his gate. It was a silly row but its not the first time we have had words. Things got a little heated verbally so I moved my car and he said he would "kick the ****e out of me" if I did it again. Hes a much bigger bloke than me so I was a bit shocked and just walked away. I dont think he would actually do it, but I think hes a bully who likes to make threats, I know he did the same to another neighbour in the past
The point is, if I went to the Guards and made a complaint, what reailisticaly could be done about it or would I be wasting my time, my word against his really

Arthur Beesley · 23-01-2014 1:17pm

Were you blocking access to his driveway?

CrinkElite · 23-01-2014 1:20pm

Do you really want to start a war with your neighbour?
Play it down. Peace is always the best coarse of action when you're stuck living beside someone indefinitely.

seamus · 23-01-2014 1:20pm

If you make a complaint to the Gardai they will likely just knock on the door and give him a warning.

They will probably also then call into you and advise you to stop doing things to aggravate the situation, i.e. park you car well away from the guy's house. In reality, this is what you should do, and not bother going to the Gardai.

Remember their are 3 sides to every story - Your side, their side and the truth. Even if you swear that you weren't blocking his property, the Gardai will assume there's some reason why it annoyed him enough to cause an argument.

You can be charged with threatening behaviour, etc, but in the context above the Gardai won't bother their time pushing for a prosecution over an idle threat.

jackthetrader · 23-01-2014 1:55pm

seamus wrote: »

If you make a complaint to the Gardai they will likely just knock on the door and give him a warning.

They will probably also then call into you and advise you to stop doing things to aggravate the situation, i.e. park you car well away from the guy's house. In reality, this is what you should do, and not bother going to the Gardai.

Remember their are 3 sides to every story - Your side, their side and the truth. Even if you swear that you weren't blocking his property, the Gardai will assume there's some reason why it annoyed him enough to cause an argument.

You can be charged with threatening behaviour, etc, but in the context above the Gardai won't bother their time pushing for a prosecution over an idle threat.

I was blocking his driveway and I moved the car, I even apologised. he wasnt interested in apologies so we had more words, then said he would "kick the ****e out of me" if I did it again. I dont want to go to the guards over an idle threat. I also dont want to get beaten up if I do something else to enrage this guy, like look at him the wrong way or something
So does an actual assault have to take place before the Guardai would be interested ?

saltyjack silverblade · 23-01-2014 3:08pm

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think the law would recognise your claim. You were not in any danger as he said he assault you next time it was done.

Maybe you could send your missus/mother around to speak to his missus/mother about this sort of street behaviour. They may make you shake hands and be friends afterward.

hullaballoo · 23-01-2014 3:21pm

His reaction is over the top and boorish but you shouldn't have been blocking his driveway. You certainly shouldn't do it again.

I can't believe that you would actually take the threat seriously enough to fear for your well-being and I doubt the Gardaí would either. He also didn't say anything about randomly attacking you for no reason. He specifically said it related to you blocking his driveway. So don't block his driveway.

Don't block anyone's driveway. It's their driveway.

jackthetrader · 23-01-2014 3:30pm

hullaballoo wrote: »

His reaction is over the top and boorish but you shouldn't have been blocking his driveway. You certainly shouldn't do it again.

I can't believe that you would actually take the threat seriously enough to fear for your well-being and I doubt the Gardaí would either. He also didn't say anything about randomly attacking you for no reason. He specifically said it related to you blocking his driveway. So don't block his driveway.

Don't block anyone's driveway. It's their driveway.

This same guy has a previous conviction for an assault charge. So yes I will be taking his threat seriously

whomitconcerns · 23-01-2014 3:33pm

jackthetrader wrote: »

This same guy has a previous conviction for an assault charge. So yes I will be taking his threat seriously

and with that knowledge you still blocked his driveway??????????????

Monkeybonkers · 23-01-2014 3:37pm

Report it to the cops. If anything does happen in the future there'll be a record of it.

Then stay away from him and don't block his driveway.

Flippyfloppy · 23-01-2014 3:53pm

He probably uses his reputation to intimidate people.

It's not nice, but simply don't park in front of his driveway. If I was trying to go somewhere and someone was blocking me I would be frustrated. I certainly wouldn't behave as he has done, but I doubt the cops will do anything. If you call the cops I doubt you'll get a result, you could write this whole incident down just in case anything else shall crop up.

who_me · 23-01-2014 3:57pm

Monkeybonkers wrote: »

Report it to the cops. If anything does happen in the future there'll be a record of it.

Then stay away from him and don't block his driveway.

I'd agree. Report it, and you can say you don't want it taken further, but you do want it recorded. If anything were to happen in the future, it would surely strengthen your case if there are accusations of threats being made against you or neighbours.

schmanga · 23-01-2014 4:17pm

It's been said already here but needs repeating: You shouldn't have been obstructing his driveway. After you moved the car he obviously wasn't interested in apologies. That was the time to walk away. You didn't and you re-engaged. He called you on something you did and offered to give you a beating should you re-offend. Why don't you do it again, take the kicking, then call the cops after your smack-down and see how that works out? I don't think you're too worried about the threat, or else you've no ability to read people and know that sometimes discretion is the better part of valour, letting someone insult you while walking away is always better than a row. I think you're looking for a way to undermine/discredit this person. Call the Gardaí? Go ahead, or next time you do something so dumb and inconsiderate as obstruct your neighbours driveway and they lose it, keep your mouth shut and walk away.

seamus · 23-01-2014 4:26pm

Any action the Gardai might take for the threat you say he issued, will be minor. And all it will do it piss the guy off even more.

You were actually blocking his driveway. You and the guy don't get on and have "had words" in the past. So someone could argue that you were deliberately provoking him by blocking his driveway.

Sometimes a bit of cop on is more effective than the law. Don't block anyone's driveway and you won't run into this kind of problem.

username123 · 23-01-2014 4:27pm

So you blocked the driveway of someone you have previously had words with and now that its escalated to him physically threatening you, you want to escalate it further by calling the Guards?

Would you ever grow up. You blocked his driveway. Its SO rude to do that. Its incredibly frustrating. You blocked it, knowing that there is bad feeling between you, you have previously had words. To be honest it comes off like you were looking for a row.

Be more polite to your neighbours and stop blocking peoples driveways, you can expect someone to get angry when you do that.

giant_midget · 23-01-2014 4:33pm

Can only add to what was posted here already...

Don't block his driveway - He told you he would kick the ***** out of you if you did it again...fair and ample warning in my opinion - dont block peoples driveways its as easy as that.

jackthetrader · 23-01-2014 6:04pm

I am really intrigued the way some people think its fine to threaten someone with violence if they block your driveway one time. I thought the first thing to do would be to ask someone to move it politely. Is this not the way to go?. Do ye just barrell in with the threats right away ?
What sort of moral code do you people live by

username123 · 23-01-2014 6:07pm

jackthetrader wrote: »

I am really intrigued the way some people think its fine to threaten someone with violence if they block your driveway one time for 5 minutes. I thought a decent thing to do would be to ask someone to move it politely. Is this not the way to go?. Do ye just barrell in with the threats right away ?
What sort of moral code do you people live by

It was only 5 minutes because things got heated! Dont make it out like you parked there for 5 minutes and left quietly.

Why would you expect someone you have previously had words with to approach you politely? He probably thinks you are an arrogant so-and-so and rude and cheeky into the bargain.

Flippyfloppy · 23-01-2014 6:07pm

jackthetrader wrote: »

It was a silly row but its not the first time we have had words.

Threatening with violence is not ok, but the point is, the police probably won't do much as he will make out you're aggravating the situation. If some posters say its hunky dory to threaten people, they're wrong.

I actually took your above statement to mean it's not the first time you've had words about blocking his drive.

seamus · 23-01-2014 7:06pm

jackthetrader wrote: »

I am really intrigued the way some people think its fine to threaten someone with violence if they block your driveway one time. I thought the first thing to do would be to ask someone to move it politely. Is this not the way to go?. Do ye just barrell in with the threats right away ?
What sort of moral code do you people live by

The point here is that you and the guy have had heated exchanges before, and you're aware that he has convictions for assault. Yet you decided to park your car in such a way so as to block his driveway.

So the only possible conclusions here are:

1. You did this deliberately to annoy him
2. You are exceptionally absent-minded
3. You're stupid

We know that number 3 doesn't apply. So it's either no. 1 or no. 2.

It doesn't mean that it's OK for him to have threatened you, but you have to accept your part in being the one who caused the argument to occur in the first place.

jackthetrader · 23-01-2014 7:24pm

seamus wrote: »

The point here is that you and the guy have had heated exchanges before, and you're aware that he has convictions for assault. Yet you decided to park your car in such a way so as to block his driveway.

So the only possible conclusions here are:

1. You did this deliberately to annoy him
2. You are exceptionally absent-minded
3. You're stupid

We know that number 3 doesn't apply. So it's either no. 1 or no. 2.

It doesn't mean that it's OK for him to have threatened you, but you have to accept your part in being the one who caused the argument to occur in the first place.

I accept i was wrong to block his drive, if someone did it to me I would be pissed off too. But I think I could ask them to move the damn car without threats of violence. thats all im saying

Here are the details
I had to run into my house for 5 mins at lunchtime and i blocked his gate. I had never done this before, he does not have a car, his wife does, she was gone to work.
I came out, saw him standing at my car. I said sorry about that i'll move it right away and he started threatening me

saltyjack silverblade · 23-01-2014 7:26pm

jackthetrader wrote: »

I am really intrigued the way some people think its fine to threaten someone with violence if they block your driveway one time. I thought the first thing to do would be to ask someone to move it politely. Is this not the way to go?. Do ye just barrell in with the threats right away ?
What sort of moral code do you people live by

This thread does is a legal thread and not a moral code thread.

Legally you are in the wrong and you have no leg to stand on. He threatened you with a hypothetical- the law does not recognise that and has not done so in centuries. I'm sure everyone here can remember Tuberville v Savage (1669) "if it were not assize time".

From a criminal perspective there is nothing. No physical touching-nothing.

He shouldn't have threatened you but that does not give you the right to look to the law. Get off your high horse and accept you were both idiots.

Pat Mustard · 23-01-2014 11:10pm

saltyjack silverblade wrote: »

From a criminal perspective there is nothing. No physical touching-nothing.

I don't think that it's as clear cut as that, from a criminal perspective.

Depending on whether the neighbour was on private property or a public place, perhaps the behaviour described might possibly fall under threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour under s.6 of the Public Order Act.

I'm not suggesting that the OP should make a complaint by any means, especially as obstruction of an entrance is an offence under parking regs, iirc.

OP, I would say that it is preferable to be on the side of the angels before contacting Gardai. Otherwise, things may not go the way you expect.

jackthetrader · 23-01-2014 11:50pm

The Mustard wrote: »

I don't think that it's as clear cut as that, from a criminal perspective.

Depending on whether the neighbour was on private property or a public place, perhaps the behaviour described might possibly fall under threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour under s.6 of the Public Order Act.

I'm not suggesting that the OP should make a complaint by any means, especially as obstruction of an entrance is an offence under parking regs, iirc.

OP, I would say that it is preferable to be on the side of the angels before contacting Gardai. Otherwise, things may not go the way you expect.

I think I am just going to let it go and try to not to antagonise my neighbor again

Bepolite · 24-01-2014 2:59am

saltyjack silverblade wrote: »

This thread does is a legal thread and not a moral code thread.

Legally you are in the wrong and you have no leg to stand on. He threatened you with a hypothetical- the law does not recognise that and has not done so in centuries. I'm sure everyone here can remember Tuberville v Savage (1669) "if it were not assize time".

From a criminal perspective there is nothing. No physical touching-nothing.

He shouldn't have threatened you but that does not give you the right to look to the law. Get off your high horse and accept you were both idiots.

You're confusing battery and assault. Assault require no physical touching and battery requires no knowledge of the touch. Due to common parlance people confuse the two. I'll kick the ****e out of you is an assault, I realise you're seeing the 'next time you do it' as akin to Tubbervillle v Savage but I'm not sure it's as clear cut as that.

Section 2 NFOAPA

Assault.

2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

without the consent of the other.

(2) In subsection (1) (a), “force” includes—

(a) application of heat, light, electric current, noise or any other form of energy, and

(b) application of matter in solid liquid or gaseous form.

(3) No such offence is committed if the force or impact, not being intended or likely to cause injury, is in the circumstances such as is generally acceptable in the ordinary conduct of daily life and the defendant does not know or believe that it is in fact unacceptable to the other person.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

While it's arguable either way obviously the OP position is weak. To say that an assault requires touching though is simply incorrect.

runawaybishop · 24-01-2014 10:32am

Bepolite wrote: »

You're confusing battery and assault. Assault require no physical touching and battery requires no knowledge of the touch. Due to common parlance people confuse the two. I'll kick the ****e out of you is an assault, I realise you're seeing the 'next time you do it' as akin to Tubbervillle v Savage but I'm not sure it's as clear cut as that.

Section 2 NFOAPA

Assault.

2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

without the consent of the other.

(2) In subsection (1) (a), “force” includes—

(a) application of heat, light, electric current, noise or any other form of energy, and

(b) application of matter in solid liquid or gaseous form.

(3) No such offence is committed if the force or impact, not being intended or likely to cause injury, is in the circumstances such as is generally acceptable in the ordinary conduct of daily life and the defendant does not know or believe that it is in fact unacceptable to the other person.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

While it's arguable either way obviously the OP position is weak. To say that an assault requires touching though is simply incorrect.

There wasn't anything immediate about it though. He said "I'll kick the sh1te out of you if you park there again".

saltyjack silverblade · 24-01-2014 12:34pm

Bepolite wrote: »

You're confusing battery and assault. Assault require no physical touching and battery requires no knowledge of the touch. Due to common parlance people confuse the two. I'll kick the ****e out of you is an assault, I realise you're seeing the 'next time you do it' as akin to Tubbervillle v Savage but I'm not sure it's as clear cut as that.

Assault.

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

While it's arguable either way obviously the OP position is weak. To say that an assault requires touching though is simply incorrect.

I do actually understand the difference between assault and battery. I did not say an assault requires touching.

The OP was in no immediate danger. The neighbour actually told him so by saying if he were to do it again he would do whatever to him. There was no danger in anyway shape or form. Either tort or criminal. The neighbour actually said to the man that he was not going to harm him in that instance.

Pro Hoc Vice · 24-01-2014 2:32pm

In ireland there is no battery, section 2 is assault, section 3 is assault causing harm and section 4 is causing serious harm. In the instant case if the threats are serious enough it may come under section 5

5.—(1) A person who, without lawful excuse, makes to another a threat, by any means intending the other to believe it will be carried out, to kill or cause serious harm to that other or a third person shall be guilty of an offence,

Bepolite · 24-01-2014 2:38pm

infosys wrote: »

In ireland there is no battery, section 2 is assault, section 3 is causing harm and section 4 is causing serious harm. In the instant case if the threats are serious enough it may come under section 5

5.—(1) A person who, without lawful excuse, makes to another a threat, by any means intending the other to believe it will be carried out, to kill or cause serious harm to that other or a third person shall be guilty of an offence,

I was wondering about section 5 but really I'll kick the ****e out of you is simply an expression - would it still be covered. Is it not something akin to I'll kill you if you park there again? Of course most of this is moot due to the OPs own belief the guy is all hot air but putting that aside.

jackthetrader · 24-01-2014 3:43pm

infosys wrote: »

In ireland there is no battery, section 2 is assault, section 3 is assault causing harm and section 4 is causing serious harm. In the instant case if the threats are serious enough it may come under section 5

5.—(1) A person who, without lawful excuse, makes to another a threat, by any means intending the other to believe it will be carried out, to kill or cause serious harm to that other or a third person shall be guilty of an offence,

Out of general interest as I am a complete amateur on legal matters. What is a 'lawful excuse' ?

smcgiff · 24-01-2014 3:52pm

jackthetrader wrote: »

Out of general interest as I am a complete amateur on legal matters. What is a 'lawful excuse' ?

If you block a driveway...

Only kidding.

Threatened with physical violence

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