Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Gay Marriage

Options
  • 05-10-2013 5:03pm
    #1
    H.J Simpson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3 ✭


    I think todays vote on the seanad proves that the Irish are big fans of maintaining the status quo and despite what polls say Gay marriage will be rejected by the irish too.


«13456789

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    H.J Simpson wrote: »
    I think todays vote on the seanad proves that the Irish are big fans of maintaining the status quo and despite what polls say Gay marriage will be rejected by the irish too.

    Why? Divorce was passed, risk of suicide as grounds for abortion was kept....I don't really see the link between the seanad and gay marriage as an issue.


  • Options
    #3
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,796 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Turnout would be low I would say. There would be a bigger No vote than expected as well.


  • Options
    #4
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    ebbsy wrote: »
    Turnout would be low I would say.

    Why?

    The low turnout votes we've had recently were all about muddly questions that nobody really cared about because they didn't really look like they'd have any tangible effect on their day to day lives.

    Same sex marriage is the first one in ages people actually do really feel very strongly about, referendum or no, and it could make a big difference to a lot of people.

    I'd bet on it having the best turnout for a long, long time, tbh.


  • Options
    #5
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,683 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    There would be a lively debate on the attempt to redefine the definition of traditional marriage.


  • Options
    #6
    An Riabhach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭An Riabhach


    H.J Simpson wrote: »
    I think todays vote on the seanad proves that the Irish are big fans of maintaining the status quo and despite what polls say Gay marriage will be rejected by the irish too.

    Don't think so-they are two totally different issues.
    I'm not gay but I'd vote yes to gay marriage-sure what the hell harm are they doing to anybody else?
    And it certainly won't make a difference to the state this country is in,as far as I'm concerned anyway...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Manach wrote: »
    There would be a lively debate on the attempt to redefine the definition of traditional marriage.


    Or a painful one, depending on what way you looked at it. And its a case of "will be" rather than would. Gilmore let on that he thought it might be in 2014.


  • Options
    #8
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Firstly I don't think the support for same sex marriage is as big a some people say it is, and I am not sure it would pass a referendum in the next few years.

    But there was an interesting point made by someone on a radio show today during the discussion about the seanad

    The abolition of the seanad was very much a FG initiative, and certainly a Kenny initiative.
    The support they got from their collation partner, Labour, was questionable, they allowed their TDs and Senators to choose which side they were on and which side they wished to canvas and show support for.
    So when it comes to a same sex marriage referendum, which is very much a Labour initiative, FG may say, 'ye are on yer own with this one folks' and not get fully behind them, and remember FG is a fairly conservative party so it would be right down their street to allow their TD and Senators make up their own mind on it.


  • Options
    #9
    hfallada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    I think the turn out for same sex marriage will be quite high. It is actually an issue that young people feel strongly about. They cant understand why someone just because of who they are, should be treated like a second class citizen by the Irish state. They cant understand why their friends cant be equal to them on something which is a human right. But I can imagine a lot of older people wanting to vote no on same sex marriage as it isnt normal( but I think a lot of them would vote no against a divorce referendum in the morning too).

    Opinion polls have put support of same sex marriage significantly in favour in Ireland. It a referendum that can genuinely can improve the lives of thousands of people and not some ridiculous referendum like making Irish the first and official language of the state. As Hillary Clinton said gay rights, are human rights. Its time for the Government to put a decent referendum to the people. But this will be a very political sensitive one and I cant imagine it be anytime soon( although FG said it will be in 2014/2015, I imagine they will drag it out).


  • Options
    #10
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    It's hard to get any referendum passed when there's a portion of the electorate who vote against everything.


  • Options
    #11
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,796 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    hmmm wrote: »
    It's hard to get any referendum passed when there's a portion of the electorate who vote against everything.

    True. I voted No on Friday just to shag up the government and will do so as well in the gay marriage vote.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Some top notch reasoning there alright.


  • Options
    #13
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Democracy: letting even the stupidest of people have a say in the running of a country for two and a half millennia.


  • Options
    #14
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Arrogance: making thick people feel smart since the origins of man.


  • Options
    #15
    Swan Curry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Swan Curry


    I'd hope enough people would feel strongly enough about LGBT rights to vote Yes if there was a referendum,but unfortunately,many people in Ireland still have an attitude of "I've no problem with gays,I just don't want to have to ever think about them or have them near me".

    It would be interesting to see how strong the opposition from the Catholic Church would be.Would they keep their head down and hope people forget their role in the historical persecution of LGBT people,or would they realise they're a dying institution and go for broke opposing this to attempt to please the hangers-on?


  • Options
    #16
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    A gay marriage referendum in Ireland next year would almost certainly be defeated. Historically referendums do not exercise the electorate enough to bother going out to vote and those against a proposal always seem to be more motivated. Referendums that were not that controversial, such as the Childrens one, produced a sizeable no vote.

    It would be likely that the two main political parties would stay neutral or be a soft yes to such a proposal. The right wing groups will produce scare literature in relation to adoption, which when introduced to the debate reduces significantly those in favour. This will be enough to convince enough of the electorate to go out to vote no to defeat the proposal.

    The way I see it going is there won't be Gay marriage in Ireland with normal adoption rights for some years.


  • Options
    #17
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    hfallada wrote: »
    I think the turn out for same sex marriage will be quite high. It is actually an issue that young people feel strongly about. They cant understand why someone just because of who they are, should be treated like a second class citizen by the Irish state. They cant understand why their friends cant be equal to them on something which is a human right. But I can imagine a lot of older people wanting to vote no on same sex marriage as it isnt normal( but I think a lot of them would vote no against a divorce referendum in the morning too).

    Opinion polls have put support of same sex marriage significantly in favour in Ireland. It a referendum that can genuinely can improve the lives of thousands of people and not some ridiculous referendum like making Irish the first and official language of the state. As Hillary Clinton said gay rights, are human rights. Its time for the Government to put a decent referendum to the people. But this will be a very political sensitive one and I cant imagine it be anytime soon( although FG said it will be in 2014/2015, I imagine they will drag it out).

    Young people feel strongly about a lot of things, but at the end of the day rarely come out and vote in large numbers.
    Older people, who tend to be more conservative, vote in larger numbers


  • Options
    #18
    periodictable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    Food for thought....


  • Options
    #19
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,786 ✭✭✭SeanW


    My favourite take on this issue was this, quite sarcastic pic+quote:

    63477275.jpg
    "New Yorks first legally married gay couple"
    "Clearly a threat to us all"

    :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #20
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    The key to this being passed is that the Young voters actually turn up to make their voices count. If this happens then the referendum will pass. If there is a low turnout you can predict that it is the older people voting as usual and they will be a conservative bunch and therefore vote it down.

    A critical factor will be the campaign leading up to this and especially the No campaign. If it becomes too vitriolic in its output and aggressively goes after the "evil homosexuals" and their destruction of old Catholic Ireland then I believe it will spur the youth to actually vote in numbers. Here's hoping that organisations like the Iona Institute, Youth Defence and Opus Dei are extremely vocal about the campaign.

    I see they plan to hold this referendum in May 2015, I suspect there may be dirty tricks at play from FG as this is around the time of College exams; an effort to try and lower the youth participation. A Yes vote would cause difficulties for the organisation and could push the more conservative members within the organisation towards Creightons Reform Alliance which consists of Religiously conservatives on the whole.

    Personally I will vote yes as I believe no person should be denied their rights no matter their sexual preference. Who you choose to spend you life with should be no concern of the states once they are over the age of consent.


  • Options
    #21
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    All this "denied their rights" commentary is wearing thin. No one wants to deny people rights. What people do want is the preservation of a structure so important to society, marriage.

    I fail to see why people can be so conflicted. No all gay people want gay marriage.

    Theres two issues.

    A. The issue of rights for homosexuals, transsexuals and polygamists.
    B. The special value that people put on "traditional" marriage.

    The two issues do not need to conflict.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    All this "denied their rights" commentary is wearing thin. No one wants to deny people rights. What people do want is the preservation of a structure so important to society, marriage.
    ............


    Marriage isn't being abolished, its being extended to everyone. I don't see where "preservation" comes into it.


  • Options
    #23
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    Nodin wrote: »
    Marriage isn't being abolished, its being extended to everyone. I don't see where "preservation" comes into it.

    Its not being extended to everyone Nodin. You know that better than I do.


  • Options
    #24
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    Its not being extended to everyone Nodin. You know that better than I do.


    Well, its being extended to gay people and I do fail to see why that should raise talk about the "preservation" of marriage.


  • Options
    #25
    _Redzer_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    All this "denied their rights" commentary is wearing thin. No one wants to deny people rights. What people do want is the preservation of a structure so important to society, marriage.

    I fail to see why people can be so conflicted. No all gay people want gay marriage.

    Theres two issues.

    A. The issue of rights for homosexuals, transsexuals and polygamists.
    B. The special value that people put on "traditional" marriage.

    The two issues do not need to conflict.

    Preserving marriage? Is that what Britney Spears and Kim Kardashian are doing these days?

    Could've fooled me


  • Options
    #26
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    _Redzer_ wrote: »
    Preserving marriage? Is that what Britney Spears and Kim Kardashian are doing these days?

    Could've fooled me

    Am I missing something?


  • Options
    #27
    diograis
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭diograis


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    Am I missing something?

    britney spears married for some yoke for like 56 hours before divorcing or something like that, kinda flies in the face of the argument that the gays are "ruining its sanctity" etc etc


  • Options
    #28
    _Redzer_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    Am I missing something?

    It's just that that point is misplaced. The preservation of marriage? Divorce rates are extremely high and many obviously don't hold marriage in any sacred way anymore.

    Tell me how is preventing gay people from marrying is 'preserving marriage'? If you're going at from a traditional point of view it's nothing more than a monetary contract with no love involved at all.

    Marriage has evolved a lot over the last 100 years, it's continuing to do so. Saying you're against it for traditional purposes and the 'preservation of marriage' is utter nonsense. You're argument against it is going to have to be far better than that because so you're keeping your opinions for irrational, ill thought out reasons.


  • Options
    #29
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    _Redzer_ wrote: »
    It's just that that point is misplaced. The preservation of marriage? Divorce rates are extremely high and many obviously don't hold marriage in any sacred way anymore.

    Tell me how is preventing gay people from marrying is 'preserving marriage'? If you're going at from a traditional point of view it's nothing more than a monetary contract with no love involved at all.

    Marriage has evolved a lot over the last 100 years, it's continuing to do so. Saying you're against it for traditional purposes and the 'preservation of marriage' is utter nonsense. You're argument against it is going to have to be far better than that because so you're keeping your opinions for irrational, ill thought out reasons.


    Its been a stable arrangement for many hundreds of years. Before that it was a very unstable arrangement. Now you want the return of instabilty? What purpose would that serve?


  • Options
    #30
    _Redzer_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    Its been a stable arrangement for many hundreds of years. Before that it was a very unstable arrangement. Now you want the return of instabilty? What purpose would that serve?

    How is it unstable to let two people of the same sex marry?

    You're going to have to explain


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    Its been a stable arrangement for many hundreds of years. Before that it was a very unstable arrangement. Now you want the return of instabilty? What purpose would that serve?

    Out of curiousity are you married? I am and I fully support marriage equality. I don't see why my marriage will be anymore unstable with gay marriage as it would be without. It has zero impact on my relationship if Mary and Ann can marry each other, nothing changes for me. Explain to me how my marriage is somehow weakened as you see it.


Advertisement