Mother to sue couple who filmed drunk son before he drowned

Daqster · 06-01-2014 6:40pm #1

French mother to sue couple who filmed drunk son before he fell into river and drowned

A grieving mother in France is to sue a couple who allegedly mocked and filmed her drunken son who was later found drowned.

Sylvie Zecca, a former police officer, says she wants to make an example of the pair, and accuses them of contravening a French law requiring individuals to help anyone in danger.

Her 19-year-old son, Vincent, disappeared after a night out in Bordeaux in March 2012. Three weeks later police divers retrieved his body from the Garonne river that runs through the city.

At first the family thought he had been murdered, as one of his credit cards appeared to have been stolen and used that evening. A police investigation concluded he had accidentally drowned after slipping into the Garonne while drunk.

After gaining access to the police file shortly before Christmas, Zecca announced she was suing the two passersby who told police they had seen her son.

The pair, who have not been named, told investigators the teenager was "very drunk … near comatose". Instead of helping him, the couple apparently laughed at him, filmed him with their smartphone and watched him walk off.

The lawsuit for "deliberately not helping someone in danger" and "voluntary manslaughter" is being lodged against "persons unknown" to allow a wider investigation, but Zecca is clear on whom she is targeting. "I'm not seeking punishment, just that they be made to face up to their responsibilities," Zecca told French journalists.

The police file showed that several people had come across Vincent Zecca, but only the couple stopped to film him. After watching the short video, Zecca said her son was "not himself". She said: "Vincent was being inoffensive. He was only asking to return home."

Zecca claimed young drunks should be seen as vulnerable people as opposed to culprits. "Someone who's not walking straight in the street, is shouting, falling over, is speaking incoherently, being sick … is that funny? People say 'oh, he's had a skinful' and don't do anything to help. But when someone has an epileptic fit, you call the emergency services. When someone is bleeding from an injury after a fight, you don't laugh, you call for help," Zecca told Sud Ouest newspaper.

Zecca has set up an association, Jeunesse Volée (Stolen Youth), to raise awareness of the risks of alcohol and drugs for youngsters.

Under article 223-6 of the French criminal code, "non-assistance à personne en danger" carries a civil and criminal liability. In the criminal courts the penalty is up to five years in jail and a fine of up to €75,000 (£62,000). In the civil courts judges can order compensation to the victim or their family.

Photographers at the scene of the car crash in Paris in 1997 in which Diana, Princess of Wales, died were investigated for the offence but not charged.

I think it's a joke to be suing the couple for recording and laughing at her son as they were not to know what would befall him shortly after. If they had filmed him in the water and did nothing, sure, but otherwise no, they are in no way responsible for what happened.

Am I wrong.. what do you think?

Also, not sure if we have a similar "non-assistance" law as the French but if not, do you think we should.

ScumLord · 06-01-2014 6:47pm

I can see th4e mothers point in a way. I always find it surprising when your looking at one of those "best fails of.." videos on youtube, the first reaction is always laughing no matter how serious the fall looks. There does seem to be a class of person that thinks once their smartphone is filming something it becomes entertainment.

If the couple didn't actually see him falling in the water then they've nothing to answer for though, there's nothing unusual about seeing a teenager unable to handle their drink and if anyones tried to help one of these drunken teenagers they know it's next to pointless.

Mr. Incognito · 06-01-2014 6:54pm

Misdirected grief and anger.

Happens all the time. Something tragic and people look for someone to blame.

Your son was drunk and died tragically. It's not some randoms fault. Sorry for her loss but that's just not the way to go about it.

PizzamanIRL · 06-01-2014 6:59pm

It sounds odd to be suing for voluntary manslaughter for not helping him but if its the law over there then fair enough. They admitted he was almost comatose but they didn't help him so that's French law broken.

That's a problem with people these days. They're too quick to pull out their phone to record a video of an incident instead of calling for help. You see videos all over the internet and think 'There's actually someone behind this camera trying to make a viral video instead of trying to help'

JJayoo · 06-01-2014 7:04pm

She is grieving and looking for someone to blame.

humanji · 06-01-2014 7:05pm

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

It sounds odd to be suing for voluntary manslaughter for not helping him but if its the law over there then fair enough. They admitted he was almost comatose but they didn't help him so that's French law broken.

That's a problem with people these days. They're too quick to pull out their phone to record a video of an incident instead of calling for help. You see videos all over the internet and think 'There's actually someone behind this camera trying to make a viral video instead of trying to help'

I could be wrong, but when they were filming, the guy wasn't in any danger. So they were under no obligation to help him. I think there's a problem with translation here as well. They say he was near comatosed, then walked away. As said above, it's just misdirected rage.

Guy:Incognito · 06-01-2014 7:07pm

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

It sounds odd to be suing for voluntary manslaughter for not helping him but if its the law over there then fair enough. They admitted he was almost comatose but they didn't help him so that's French law broken.

Didn't help him in what way though? He wasn't in the water, he was just some drunk guy. It's not like he was in the water drowning and they did it.

At what stage is a drunk stranger your responsibility and how long after you see them do are you liable if they kill themselves?

MagicMarker · 06-01-2014 7:09pm

humanji wrote: »

I could be wrong, but when they were filming, the guy wasn't in any danger. So they were under no obligation to help him. I think there's a problem with translation here as well. They say he was near comatosed, then walked away. As said above, it's just misdirected rage.

I think the argument is that he was in danger because of the condition he was in.

PizzamanIRL · 06-01-2014 7:12pm

According to his mother the video showed him asking for help to get home though.

Guy:Incognito · 06-01-2014 7:13pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

I think the argument is that he was in danger because of the condition he was in.

Then why is it not the barmans fault that let him leave in that state or anyone else that might have passed him by all along the road. What if he was at a match? Are all 50,000 people liable?

I disagree with being liable for strangers actions. Plenty of people would be nervous about approaching a drunk person and that should be their choice. What if he was a right wanker and gave one of them a smack of a bottle or something?

RDM_83 again · 06-01-2014 7:14pm

I wouldn't film a drunk person, but I also know trying to get somebody thats hammered to go into an ambulance or to quieten down is an absolute pain in the ass and thats been with people I have known or when working at events, if a person is conscious and walking they will normally be ok. Its a different story if someone is passed out and choking risk.

Days 298 · 06-01-2014 7:15pm

The guy got drunk, fell into a river drowned. How that is anyone but his own fault I dont know.

I dont care how drunk a guy is or how near he is to a peer. Im not risking my own safety when their is a chance he could get aggressive and attack without warning if I approach. He could have a knife for all I know. Nobody is made get drunk. Ill watch my own safety around drunks not theirs.

humanji · 06-01-2014 7:15pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

I think the argument is that he was in danger because of the condition he was in.

But that's the problem. He wasn't in danger when they saw him. She wants the definition of being in danger to change so that she can direct her rage at the people who filmed him.

humanji · 06-01-2014 7:16pm

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

According to his mother the video showed him asking for help to get home though.

So? I don't mean to demean her grief or his death, but asking for help getting home and being in danger are two seperate things.

UCDVet · 06-01-2014 7:18pm

I don't blame the Mother for being emotional and irrational. I just hope that everyone else can be reasonable and see how ridiculous that would be....to personally hold everyone who watches someone else do something stupid, for the actions of the people who are stupid.

gw80 · 06-01-2014 7:18pm

jesus wept,
what are you expected to do? try and help every drunk person you come across,
That can come back to bite you dealing with someone very drunk.

ScumLord · 06-01-2014 7:27pm

humanji wrote: »

But that's the problem. He wasn't in danger when they saw him. She wants the definition of being in danger to change so that she can direct her rage at the people who filmed him.

It also sounds like she's fully aware that she wouldn't win the case and is only looking to publicly shame the couple by bringing charges against them. Which is probably a waste of the court's time and could backfire on her.

Mint Aero · 06-01-2014 7:29pm

Proper order. Teach them scummers with cameras a lesson. Scumbags.

PizzamanIRL · 06-01-2014 7:42pm

ScumLord wrote: »

It also sounds like she's fully aware that she wouldn't win the case and is only looking to publicly shame the couple by bringing charges against them. Which is probably a waste of the court's time and could backfire on her.

They deserve public shaming. Wasn't that what they were filming him for in the first place? No doubt to upload it online

Daqster · 06-01-2014 7:44pm

ScumLord wrote: »

It also sounds like she's fully aware that she wouldn't win the case and is only looking to publicly shame the couple by bringing charges against them. Which is probably a waste of the court's time and could backfire on her.

Which I hope isn't a reflection of why she would chose to drag people through the courts while she was in the Police.

J_E · 06-01-2014 7:44pm

Days 298 wrote: »

The guy got drunk, fell into a river drowned. How that is anyone but his own fault I dont know.

I dont care how drunk a guy is or how near he is to a peer. Im not risking my own safety when their is a chance he could get aggressive and attack without warning if I approach. He could have a knife for all I know. Nobody is made get drunk. Ill watch my own safety around drunks not theirs.

Drinks get spiked too sometimes. I've had friends it's happened to, even when they're not sexual targets. Hard to judge where the line is really, but apart from that, it's a bit scummy to record a stranger asking for help and totally out of it to get home for a few YouTube hits.

Links234 · 06-01-2014 7:51pm

A few years back me and my sister were driving back from the cinema, and we spotted this man who was slumped over against a wall, so we pulled up. He proceeded to try and stand up and he fell over. The very definition of legless. We called an ambulance for him, stayed on the call and then waited until somebody showed up. What was running through my head was that he could've seriously hurt himself or worse, or even hurt someone else.

Never did it occur to me or my sister to make a video of him to take the piss, and I can't understand someone's mentality who would do that.

Riddle101 · 06-01-2014 8:03pm

In fairness i'd be pretty p*ssed if something like that happened to a family member of mine. If someone came to me asking for help when they were intoxicated, I'd help them. Intoxicated people are always at risk, so the argument of his being in danger is not so incomprehensible. He was at risk, and they turned a blind eye. Another example of the selfishness of society.

JRant · 06-01-2014 8:15pm

Riddle101 wrote: »

In fairness i'd be pretty p*ssed if something like that happened to a family member of mine. If someone came to me asking for help when they were intoxicated, I'd help them. Intoxicated people are always at risk, so the argument of his being in danger is not so incomprehensible. He was at risk, and they turned a blind eye. Another example of the selfishness of society.

Statistically speaking the couple were far more at risk from a random drunk than the other way round. I don't blame them not for helping him. Personally I just wouldn't take the chance.

I'd say the young man who tragically died was the selfish one here. He got into such a state that he was a danger to himself and others around him.

Rough Sleeper · 06-01-2014 8:20pm

Cydoniac wrote: »

Drinks get spiked too sometimes. I've had friends it's happened to, even when they're not sexual targets. Hard to judge where the line is really, but apart from that, it's a bit scummy to record a stranger asking for help and totally out of it to get home for a few YouTube hits.

Let's be realistic here: 99.999% of people you see who are really really ****ed up, have got ****ed up on their own volition.

J_E · 06-01-2014 8:29pm

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

Let's be realistic here: 99.999% of people you see who are really really ****ed up, have got ****ed up on their own volition.

Okay, but I am just saying drink spiking happens, and it's more common than you think in Dublin, particularly in certain bars. It shouldn't have to matter either way. You maintain a cautious distance but you don't go having a laugh at them if they're in trouble.

tritium · 06-01-2014 8:34pm

Kind of nonsense tbh, scummy to take a video but they didn't really have any hope of knowing he'd subsequently drown. I suspect the mother is just looking for someone to blame a way of focusing her grief and putting some sense on her sons death. If you want to be a bit brutal in your honesty you might point out that, given he was unlikely to have been in that state for the first time in his life, maybe his parents should have also had a role in some intervention.

languagenerd · 06-01-2014 8:38pm

It's a sad state of affairs when someone's first reaction upon seeing something like that is "better film this!". Youtube is full of that sort of thing. I saw a fight break out a few months ago where a passerby whipped out his camera phone and shoved it in their faces. Why would you even think that was a good idea? Either help them or move on, it's none of your business.

However, while I think the couple in this case acted in incredibly poor taste, I don't think they are to blame for his death. If they'd filmed him in the water and struggling without helping, then they could be implicated. But you can't pass responsibility for drunk people onto random strangers who happened to pass them in the street. That sets a ridiculous precedent - if I was minding my own business and passed a group of drunks fighting in Temple Bar on the way home, would I be to blame if one if them died later? It's the same idea here - the couple should not have filmed him, but they couldn't have known what would happen later. To them he was just a (potentially dangerous) random drunk.

Guy:Incognito · 06-01-2014 8:47pm

languagenerd wrote: »

It's a sad state of affairs when someone's first reaction upon seeing something like that is "better film this!". Youtube is full of that sort of thing. I saw a fight break out a few months ago where a passerby whipped out his camera phone and shoved it in their faces. Why would you even think that was a good idea? Either help them or move on, it's none of your business..

News cameras have been doing it for decades.

Chareth Cutestory · 06-01-2014 9:00pm

Did anyone else think of Seinfeld and the Good Samaritan law?

Should they have filmed a young man absolutely out of his mind drunk and incapacitated? No. But attempting to charge them with "voluntary manslaughter" is madness. In her grief the mother is trying to make an example of the couple, there were others who didnt stop to help him, they just didnt film him. Should they not also be to blame? Without having access to the video it's impossible to know to what extent he was asking for help, he could have just been shouting incoherently, in which case I probably would have avoided him too. Pretty awful thing to do, but the couple are not responsible for his death.

H2UMrsRobinson · 06-01-2014 9:19pm

Mmmn drunk people - always great fun to be around and never any hassle at all. When are we going to stop making excuses for pissheads who drink too much and then injure/kill themselves in evermore ridiculous and inventive ways. Natural selection at its best if you ask me. The fact that the couple videoed him is irrelevant IMO. Assuming the mother has seen said video I think she's probably just upset that her last image of her son is him "not at his best"

Mother to sue couple who filmed drunk son before he drowned

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