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Nenagh Branch and Cork line journey time

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  • 28-08-2013 2:54pm
    #1
    irishrail201
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭


    As a local to the Nenagh branch line running from limerick to ballybrophy, there has been concern that it is due for closure shortly.

    That was until the local minister (for public transport) "helped" to keep it open:pac:

    The thing with the nenagh line is that most traffic is from Nenagh and Roscrea to Dublin and very little if any from nenagh to Limerick. I was once on the evening train from Roscrea to limerick and beyond nenagh I was a little uncomfortable being the only person in the carriage while it was dark outside.

    Why not let the bus do what it does best i.e Nenagh-Limerick (Bus eireann and Kavanaghs do a good service at a short journey time).

    Let rail do what it does best...Nenagh-Ballybrophy and on to Dublin.
    • Close Limerick to Nenagh the bus service can adequately deal wit that.
    • Retain Nenagh to Ballybrophy.
    • Increase the service using existing rolling stock from 2 trains eachway to 4.
    • Close cloughjordan and make it a request stop only (upon signal to the driver).
    • No staff needed at nenagh either a ticket machine or tickets from the guard would suffice.
    • A decision would be needed on whether to upgrade to CTC or retain the existing mechanical signalling. This could mean staff either retained at Roscrea or replaced with a ticket machine.
    • The line could indeed have no signalling at all and be like the swanage line pre preservation essentially as a long siding.
    • A through Dublin service could be provided once a week as in the case at Ballina.
    Cork journey times are appalling in comparison to road, the average train speed is 60mph! Comparing London to Birmingham @ 90mph........if the route was brought up to an average train speed of 90mph the journey time would be cut to roughly 1 hour 45mins versus 2 hours 40 mins by car.


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    #2
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    i'm assuming London to Birmingham at 90mph average is for a non stop journey. A non-stop journey from Cork to Dublin and vv would fail as only small proportion of journeys are end to end. This essentially is the problem with Irish trains...they need to stop several times to achieve a viable load . Most lines are essentially Outer Suburban rather than Inter City as the pattern of journeys is basically to/from provincial towns to the Ciities rather than end to end.

    London to Birmingham is a very busy route where a non stop train can be easily filled and is backed up by many fast and semi fast services not to mention stoppers.
    In other words you are comparing chalk and cheese.


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    #3
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,669 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    As a local to the Nenagh branch line running from limerick to ballybrophy, there has been concern that it is due for closure shortly.

    What do locals expect, if you don't use it then why are you concerned about it closing. The locals don't want it to close but they also don't want to use it.
    A through Dublin service could be provided once a week as in the case at Ballina.

    That was the past, doesn't happen anymore.

    The reason the Cork line is slow is IE don't have the money to get rid o TSR's, renew points such as at Kildare etc. What we have saw at Kildare is patch up work, they are 90mph but then they dropped to 25mph, work was done but they are limited to 50mph until they are replaced. This is happening all across the network.

    Last time I passed through Portlaoise it was 25mph, not sure if its changed but it must the high amount of points in and around the station. Going from 90/100mph to 25mph and building back up to 90/100 will eat into journey time and particularly that it happens more than once per journey.

    The circle IE are in is passengers want cheap fares (by European services they are very cheap) or they won't use it, passengers want high speed etc but won't pay the price for it.


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    #4
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #5
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,973 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Most of the branch was relaid with CWT track on concrete sleepers and new ballast. The promised money to fund ballast packing and tamping to finish the line wasn't forthcoming, leaving the line with frustratingly low speed limits throughout.


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    #6
    irishrail201
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭irishrail201


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    What do locals expect, if you don't use it then why are you concerned about it closing. The locals don't want it to close but they also don't want to use it.

    I actually use it every week to go to work in Dublin as it is more comfortable and faster than bus by about 30-40 minutes even with the speed restrictions.


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    #7
    irishrail201
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭irishrail201


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    definitely the case!


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    #8
    irishrail201
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭irishrail201


    corktina wrote: »
    i'm assuming London to Birmingham at 90mph average is for a non stop journey.
    In other words you are comparing chalk and cheese.

    No London- Birmingham services stop at approx. 4 stations en route rugby, Milton Keynes and the like.....its not non stop!

    David franks CEO does want a 2 hour service or a "business express" as he put it on the cork route which should help against the car @ 2 hours 40mins.


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    #9
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    The argument to bustitute is as good for Roscrea-Portlaoise as it is Nenagh-Limerick.

    My understanding there are actually more works to be done at that end to preserve safe operation than at the Nenagh end. It will be inconvenient for people in the Roscrea/Ballybrophy region to hike to Templemore or Portlaoise but I think it will be better for the rail network as a whole if they get used to that idea.

    The problem is that IE must and are continuing to spend cash to stop the branch completely falling apart for fear of the minister's office, money that could be spent maintaining lines which are competitive with the road alternative.


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    #10
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    irishrail201 wrote: »
    No London- Birmingham services stop at approx. 4 stations en route rugby, Milton Keynes and the like.....its not non stop! QUOTE

    no way they average 90 mph then

    a two hour train journey will probably still be longer than a 2 hour 40 car journey as you would have to get to the station.... it might beat the coach but how many businessmen use that?


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    #11
    irishrail201
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭irishrail201


    dowlingm wrote: »
    The argument to bustitute is as good for Roscrea-Portlaoise as it is Nenagh-Limerick.

    I wouldn't say bustitution is as good, last time I travelled on the line (this week) the train had about 20 people the vast majority 90% from nenagh in particular and Roscrea. I do think a shuttle bus if it stopped in nenagh and Roscrea town centres and went on to bally or portlaoise would be attractive but Irish Rail hasn't done it before and I doubt its going to.

    I actually "hike" to Templemore or Ballybrophy for Tralee trains quite often.

    Indeed a stupid decision was to improve the limerick to nenagh section rather than the northern in demand section. The line still has jointed rail with CWR for 1/4 of a mile!


    Check the timetables and distances for Virgin Trains London to Birmingham so......its 195km trains take 1 hours 25 minutes...that's 85.5 mph or 137 kph Chiltern does the snow hill route in just under 2 hours stopping at 3 stops.


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    #12
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,669 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    irishrail201 wrote: »
    I actually use it every week to go to work in Dublin as it is more comfortable and faster than bus by about 30-40 minutes even with the speed restrictions.

    Sorry comment wasn't direct at you, but probably 95% of people who live in the area the line serves don't use it ever.


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    #13
    irishrail201
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭irishrail201


    [QUOTE=corktina;86253661
    a two hour train journey will probably still be longer than a 2 hour 40 car journey as you would have to get to the station.... it might beat the coach but how many businessmen use that?[/QUOTE]

    True you have to ask David Franks that not me....but according to the aeccom 2030 strategic rail review document Business travellers are a big chunk of the cork service.


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    #14
    irishrail201
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭irishrail201


    corktina wrote: »
    a quick check finds London to Birmingham is about 118 miles and takes about 80 minutes....that's 66 mph roughly.


    118 miles or 190km

    Most Virgin trains take 1 hour 20-25 minutes for that section which is 135kph or 84mph


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    #15
    irishrail201
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭irishrail201


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Sorry comment wasn't direct at you, but probably 95% of people who live in the area the line serves don't use it ever.

    Id say 95% of them don't know its there!!


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    #16
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    irishrail201 wrote: »
    118 miles or 190km

    Most Virgin trains take 1 hour 20-25 minutes for that section which is 135kph or 84mph

    yeah I know...math wrong...already deleted but not quick enough....:-)


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    #17
    irishrail201
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭irishrail201


    corktina wrote: »
    yeah I know...math wrong...already deleted but not quick enough....:-)


    We all have our moments! But it does stop at 3 or 4 stops en route major centres such as rugby far from the rural surroundings of limerick jnc!

    Also on the Irish rail website once upon a time if you booked 2 weeks in advance you got a very cheap fare but now even if you try 2 months in advance still the same price!

    A Virgin Trains example again you can prebook tickets in advance for £12.50 each way on Manchester-London services or £8 each way on London Birmingham Chiltern services.......


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    #18
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,669 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Also on the Irish rail website once upon a time if you booked 2 weeks in advance you got a very cheap fare but now even if you try 2 months in advance still the same price!

    A Virgin Trains example again you can prebook tickets in advance for £12.50 each way on Manchester-London services or £8 each way on London Birmingham Chiltern services.......

    IE will start this from late 2014.


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