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Would anyone prefer if you could pay road tax monthly?

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  • 12-06-2013 10:16pm
    #1
    kilkenny31
    Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭


    Why can't road tax be paid by direct debit monthly?

    I am unemployed and struggle to pay my motor tax (even for 3 months), often this means i do not pay it for 3-4 months at a time and get the form stamped at the Garda Station to say it has been off the road. I do not like doing this but have to because i can't afford it at the time.

    I try to save money but its hard, i could get an electricity bill for more then i expected or something goes wrong with my car etc etc.........

    Would anyone else here prefer if there was a pay monthly by direct debit option? I read recently that Phil Hogan ruled this out because of the €20m extra a year the Dpt makes from 3month and 6month increased charges.

    Surely this could be offset buy doing what insurance companies do and charging and interest rate for pay monthly customers (not in favour of this but it probably the only way the government would ever agree)

    Anyone else be in favour of this? Doesn't really apply to people who can afford to pay it yearly.


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    #2
    Mr E
    Registered Users Posts: 55,474 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    Yeah good idea. The problem is they would need to issue a new disk each month, which is a huge overhead.


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    #3
    kilkenny31
    Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭kilkenny31


    Mr E wrote: »
    Yeah good idea. The problem is they would need to issue a new disk each month, which is a huge overhead.


    Not necessarily, could just issue it for a year like insurance companies do an if a persons direct debit failed to many times they would be forced to send it back or pay a penalty. I think any changes that needed to be made to the system would be easily offset by the extra revenue taken in from everyone paying their motor tax online.


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    #4
    hognef
    Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭hognef


    Mr E wrote: »
    Yeah good idea. The problem is they would need to issue a new disk each month, which is a huge overhead.

    In this digital age, you'd imagine it should be possible to do without the disc, but in the meantime...

    My car is €636 annually. Alternatively €179 quarterly, or €716 for the year.

    A credit card loan of €636 @ 20% interest works out as €59 per month, or €707 for the year.

    In other words, paying annually by credit card would cost roughly the same as four quarterly payments, and would allow you to pay monthly (through your credit card bill).

    This obviously assumes that 1) you have a credit card, 2) you haven't already maxed it out, and 3) you have the discipline to keep paying every month.


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    #5
    kilkenny31
    Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭kilkenny31


    hognef wrote: »
    In this digital age, you'd imagine it should be possible to do without the disc, but in the meantime...

    My car is €636 annually. Alternatively €179 quarterly, or €716 for the year.

    A credit card loan of €636 @ 20% interest works out as €59 per month, or €707 for the year.

    In other words, paying annually by credit card would cost roughly the same as four quarterly payments, and would allow you to pay monthly (through your credit card bill).

    This obviously assumes that 1) you have a credit card, 2) you haven't already maxed it out, and 3) you have the discipline to keep paying every month.

    Don't have a credit card and i'm unemployed so probably won't get one. This idea is really aimed at people who are finding it hard right now and are on low incomes, who are paying high tax rates because they can't afford newer cars.
    I just think its something the government could do pretty easily and would more then likely end up taking in extra tax as a result.


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    #6
    hfallada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    The bigger issue is that the government gives more environmentally friendly cars lower tax. Although I agree with promoting more environmentally friendly cars. Only people with decent incomes can afford to get the lower co2 emissions car. The government should possibly lower road tax and increase duties on fuel spreading out the cost more evenly


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    #7
    hognef
    Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭hognef


    hfallada wrote: »
    The government should possibly lower road tax and increase duties on fuel spreading out the cost more evenly

    And thereby penalise those who have no choice but to commute great distances to work? And effectively incentivise everybody to live in Dublin?


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    #8
    kilkenny31
    Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭kilkenny31


    hfallada wrote: »
    The bigger issue is that the government gives more environmentally friendly cars lower tax. Although I agree with promoting more environmentally friendly cars. Only people with decent incomes can afford to get the lower co2 emissions car. The government should possibly lower road tax and increase duties on fuel spreading out the cost more evenly


    I couldn't agree with you more hallada, but that's a different debate, my main aim of this thread is to find out is it something that people would be interested in, do people think it would make life a slight bit easier. Or is it a non runner.


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    #9
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    I just saw a 1 litre lpg car on donedeal in county Down tax £10 for year from what I could gather. Then they go on about bringing our tax system in line with other countries :mad:


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    #10
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,480 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    They should bring it in but ensure it's a a higher rate than the quarterly so in the above €636 example make it €64 per month


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    #11
    kilkenny31
    Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭kilkenny31


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    They should bring it in but ensure it's a a higher rate than the quarterly so in the above €636 example make it €64 per month

    Yeah i agree, the only way it would be fair is if it was more than paying it quarterly.


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    #12
    Con Logue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 277 ✭✭Con Logue


    I solved the problem by selling my car.


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    #13
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    OP, what's your motor tax?

    A sub 1000cc car still only costs €56 a quarter. Newer cars are even less.


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    #14
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    i'd be in favour of people paying monthly...in the case of some people, I'd be in favour of them paying full stop!

    I can't see a problem with having a ddm and a fine if you default on it once you have your disc.


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    #15
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,544 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Actually why cant they just do it digitally - ie the cop scans/presses in your reg and gets its details from the Database - doesnt sound difficult.


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    #16
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,740 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Actually why cant they just do it digitally - ie the cop scans/presses in your reg and gets its details from the Database - doesnt sound difficult.

    You're in a country where getting databases to link up properly is hard enough, and resources in AGS are being stretched thinner as it is

    But I agree though.. monthly payment options (WITHOUT the ridiculous penalty premium they already charge for quarterly/half-year payments) would definitely help a lot of people AND I'd wager increase compliance.

    €50 a month for example is a lot easier to manage than €200 a quarter (which realistically is generally taken from a month's salary anyway)


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    #17
    kilkenny31
    Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭kilkenny31


    n
    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    You're in a country where getting databases to link up properly is hard enough, and resources in AGS are being stretched thinner as it is

    But I agree though.. monthly payment options (WITHOUT the ridiculous penalty premium they already charge for quarterly/half-year payments) would definitely help a lot of people AND I'd wager increase compliance.

    €50 a month for example is a lot easier to manage than €200 a quarter (which realistically is generally taken from a month's salary anyway)


    It would have to include an extra charge, Phil Hogan has already said that the government would be down €20m a year without it, so it would definitely not happen with out the increase charges for paying it monthly.


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    #18
    Nemeses
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    What annoys me is why is my 2ltr 2002 car different from a 2008 ltr car.....

    However,

    Monthly would be handy, In my case that would work out at ~60 odd a month - If that came out at the end of the month for me, Suit me down to the ground!


    But alas, We can but dream!


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    #19
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,740 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    kilkenny31 wrote: »
    It would have to include an extra charge, Phil Hogan has already said that the government would be down €20m a year without it, so it would definitely not happen with out the increase charges for paying it monthly.

    Ah but you're forgetting where this money goes..

    It doesn't go back into roads like you would think a "motor" tax might do - it goes into the central "piss-it-away" pot that is government taxes

    Even when some of it DOES make it back onto the tarmac, the majority of that spend will be on the guys holding the shovels looking at the one guy who might actually be doing some work.

    Our government gets enough money as it is - it's the waste that's the problem! But as long as we're happy to accept service charges/admin fees like we do in this instance sure why WOULD they be forced to reform?


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    #20
    aman23
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭aman23


    Tax the fuel! more you drive the more you pay. car sitting outside your house/workplace = free.
    engine size, year of car irreverent.
    no cost to state, printing disks, policing tax dodgers.
    its simples.


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    #21
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,544 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    aman23 wrote: »
    Tax the fuel! more you drive the more you pay. car sitting outside your house/workplace = free.
    engine size, year of car irreverent.
    no cost to state, printing disks, policing tax dodgers.
    its simples.

    Stating the obvious but...they already do that. And no they shouldnt do it more. Any increase in recent years of anything has never resulted in some oppositely beneficially decrease in others. Its the gov. Just give them 2 fingers is my opinion at this stage.hell even the opposition want to put in new taxes. I could cry.


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    #22
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,313 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    €50 a month for example is a lot easier to manage than €200 a quarter (which realistically is generally taken from a month's salary anyway)
    You might look at the maths of that again. :D
    aman23 wrote: »
    Tax the fuel! more you drive the more you pay. car sitting outside your house/workplace = free.
    engine size, year of car irreverent.
    no cost to state, printing disks, policing tax dodgers.
    its simples.
    Cue everyone using green diesel.


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    #23
    Nemeses
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    Victor wrote: »
    You might look at the maths of that again. :D

    Cue everyone using green diesel.

    Would love too, But I discovered Vegetable oil instead.


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    #24
    aman23
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭aman23


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Stating the obvious but...they already do that. And no they shouldnt do it more. Any increase in recent years of anything has never resulted in some oppositely beneficially decrease in others. Its the gov. Just give them 2 fingers is my opinion at this stage.hell even the opposition want to put in new taxes. I could cry.

    so for example, if you were paying 1800 euro road tax each year, close to the max i know. you would be against abolishing it, in favor of, lets say for example a 0.5 cent per litre increase in fuel price?

    now, not Stating the obvious but... with the current system, your already paying both! and both can increase at the whim of the powers that be. And you wouldn't be in favor of getting shot of the 3,6 month or annual kick in the nuts, that is road tax!
    :eek:


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    #25
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,740 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Victor wrote: »
    You might look at the maths of that again. :D

    Ah you know what I meant :p I've recently switched from a 2.0 TDI to a 3.0 TDI on the old system so it works out more than either now (worth it though!) :)


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    #26
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,321 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    kilkenny31 wrote: »
    It would have to include an extra charge, Phil Hogan has already said that the government would be down €20m a year without it, so it would definitely not happen with out the increase charges for paying it monthly.
    It'd only have to be the same charge as paying quartly to be no loss to the state. They might get more people paying monthly, who currently pay annually, and actually increase revenue. If they had it as an option for PAYE workers through that system, it wouldn't even be much cost to process.

    I don't see why it'd be any more open to abuse than an insurance disk paid by direct debit.


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    #27
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,783 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Con Logue wrote: »
    I solved the problem by selling my car.
    Wow, that's really a well thought out "solution" ...


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    #28
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Monthly payments would presumably increase the state's costs of processing these payments also?

    Certainly I think the days of tax discs should be behind us, unless there is deemed to be a significant number of people who tip off the guards that people are driving around without one.

    I don't understand why motor tax is being fingered here per se, and why the alternative is deemed to be putting it on your credit card balance. We all have lots of outgoings in our lives and maybe some of the annual ones have to be financed rather than paid for by cash, but the alternative should be a 12.68pc or less loan from your local credit union if your bank doesn't offer suitable personal financing. If the car is paid off then perhaps a more attractive arrangement might be obtained by offering said car as security which might leverage a loan enough to cover not just the motor tax but a few hundred of other high-interest debt as well, while paying it down on a monthly basis over the next year.


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    #29
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,783 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Monthly payments would presumably increase the state's costs of processing these payments also?
    For the amount of money they charge, it shouldn't be a problem.
    If the car is paid off then perhaps a more attractive arrangement might be obtained by offering said car as security which might leverage a loan enough to cover not just the motor tax but a few hundred of other high-interest debt as well, while paying it down on a monthly basis over the next year.
    What happens when the annual road tax is more than the value of the car?


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    #30
    kilkenny31
    Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭kilkenny31


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Monthly payments would presumably increase the state's costs of processing these payments also?

    Certainly I think the days of tax discs should be behind us, unless there is deemed to be a significant number of people who tip off the guards that people are driving around without one.

    I don't understand why motor tax is being fingered here per se, and why the alternative is deemed to be putting it on your credit card balance. We all have lots of outgoings in our lives and maybe some of the annual ones have to be financed rather than paid for by cash, but the alternative should be a 12.68pc or less loan from your local credit union if your bank doesn't offer suitable personal financing. If the car is paid off then perhaps a more attractive arrangement might be obtained by offering said car as security which might leverage a loan enough to cover not just the motor tax but a few hundred of other high-interest debt as well, while paying it down on a monthly basis over the next year.

    The idea of monthly direct debit is aimed at the 420,000 people on the live register or those on low incomes who will not get a loan or financing of any sort. That find themselves driving with out road tax for weeks or months at a time because they cant afford to pay 150-200 euro a quarter in one lump sum. Its not something that will cost the government any extra and would almost certainly lead to extra revenue.
    To give you an idea of what im talking about.

    Currently my motor tax is. Yearly €673

    Half yearly @55.5% = €373 which works out at
    €746 per year
    Quarterly @28.25% = €190 which works
    out at €760 per year
    Introduce monthly dd payments say @10% = 67.30 which works out at €807.60 per year.

    Its not something that would make me that happy because it means i pay more but it would make my life easier and its probably the only thing the government would even consider.


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    #31
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Not being a smart ass, but what's to stop you from putting €65 in an envelope/money box every month? It sounds more like a self discipline issue rather than a problem with the system.

    Also not being an ass, but I don't understand why people driving 1.9L cars for social and leisure purposes complain about road tax rather than downsize.


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