Interesting Stuff Thread

recedite · 26-02-2013 1:34am

Still, knowing that the last thing they will feel is the water on their tongue starting to boil, makes up for not seeing your nemesis actually explode.

Nodin · 26-02-2013 3:29am

recedite wrote: »

Still, knowing that the last thing they will feel is the water on their tongue starting to boil, makes up for not seeing your nemesis actually explode.

Certainly worth an extended cackle.

Dades · 26-02-2013 12:05pm

I don't get why the water on your tongue boils - what am I missing?

Also - I never knew a vacuum by itself was dangerous. I thought space would be for sure because of the cold, radiation, etc.

Genghiz Cohen · 26-02-2013 12:06pm

Dades wrote: »

I don't get why the water on your tongue boils - what am I missing?

Also - I never knew a vacuum by itself was dangerous. I thought space would be for sure because of the cold, radiation, etc.

Could it be the lack of pressure reduces the boiling point to below the temperature of the water?

seamus · 26-02-2013 12:28pm

Indeed, pressure screws with the boiling/solidifying points of most things.

At zero pressure the boiling point of water is something ridiculous like ten degrees, so the water on your tongue boils in the same way that water does if you pour it on a hot hob.

One thing I only became aware of though in the last 12 months is that you won't instantly freeze if exposed to space. Although space is devoid of heat, the heat can only escape from your body through radiation (conduction cannot occur without a medium), and since your body radiates relatively little heat compared to how much it produces, provided that you have oxygen you probably won't feel very cold. In fact a few star jumps in the vacuum of space and you'll overheat very quickly because the heat can't escape quickly enough.

robindch · 26-02-2013 12:41pm

Dades wrote: »

I don't get why the water on your tongue boils - what am I missing?

As Genghiz + seamus say, the boiling temperature is directly related to the surface pressure:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/h2oboilcalc.html

BTW, since a plane's internal pressure is typically kept to something between 5,000 and 8,000 feet-equivalent, water won't reach 100 degrees before boiling. Which is one of the reasons why tea on planes is so crap.

robindch · 26-02-2013 1:06pm

Everything you've read about the sociology of the Prisoner's Dilemma might be wrong:

http://www.psmag.com/magazines/pacific-standard-cover-story/joe-henrich-weird-ultimatum-game-shaking-up-psychology-economics-53135/

.

Dades · 26-02-2013 1:49pm

In-ter-est-ing.

So, if water boils at circa 10 degrees in the vacuum of space, I assume then it would be a rather painless affair going on in your mouth. It'd be the sunburn, frosty extremities and lack of oxygen that might be unpleasant.

Or the tea on the way up there.

recedite · 26-02-2013 2:01pm

robindch wrote: »

Everything you've read about the sociology of the Prisoner's Dilemma might be wrong:

http://www.psmag.com/magazines/pacific-standard-cover-story/joe-henrich-weird-ultimatum-game-shaking-up-psychology-economics-53135/

Not wrong, but less applicable to less sophisticated societies. They are seeing the cash as alms, or charity, not as a the legitimate rewards of a business transaction.
Some interesting comments on the relevance of religion to developing societies there too. It could be that a tribe of jungle indians has less need of it, but a city dwelling civilization (Mayans, Aztecs etc.) requires it for social stability, and then eventually, we find the Scandinavians kicking away the ladder and continuing their societal development without it. In this latter context, the tit-for-tat strategy comes back into its own.

seamus · 26-02-2013 2:02pm

Well ten degrees is literally me plucking a figure from the air. It may boil at 0K in a vacuum for all I know.

The reason the fluids elsewhere in your body don't spontaneously boil is because the membranes of your body act as a pressurised container.

When people think of exposure to space, they tend to think like explosive decompression, but in reality the difference between sea level and space is just 1 bar. Which isn't a big difference at all. That is to say that just because space is a vacuum, it's not a particularly strong vacuum, so you don't need ridiculously reinforced tanks and ridiculously sealed capsules in the same way as you do for diving equipment.

Hotblack Desiato · 26-02-2013 2:20pm

Strong vacuum? Would that be one with negative pressure? :pac:

What you really mean to say (I think) is that normal atmospheric pressure isn't that high compared to, say, underwater pressure. IIRC the rule of thumb is another atmosphere's worth of pressure for every 10 metres down. A pressurized aircraft (or even a spacecraft) can be reasonably light and still withstand the pressure differential between inside and outside. A submarine has to have a very thick, strong and heavy metal hull (even if enemy torpedoes aren't a concern)

seamus · 26-02-2013 2:23pm

^^
Yes, ignore my post and read his instead

Hotblack Desiato · 26-02-2013 2:35pm

The triple point of water is approx. 0.01°C at 6 millibars - in a vacuum below 6 millibars of pressure, liquid water cannot exist (ice sublimates to water vapour as it is heated, same as solid CO₂ does at normal temperatures and pressures.) So as pressure descends below 6 millibars, any liquid water will either freeze or boil depending on its temperature.

In practice a human won't be exposed to vacuum instantaneously, but it wouldn't need to reach total vacuum before water at body temp. would start to exceed the boiling point at that pressure.

Bannasidhe · 26-02-2013 2:35pm

I have to ask - what would happen eyeballs?

Boil?? Explode??

And while we are about it - eardrums?

robindch · 26-02-2013 2:41pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I have to ask - what would happen eyeballs?

Freeze, I assume. Unless you've them squeezed shut.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

And while we are about it - eardrums?

So long as your Eustachian Tubes aren't blocked by manflu or some other debilitating disease, you'd probably just hear a tiny pop as the air vacates the middle ear, and then dead silence.

Hotblack Desiato · 26-02-2013 2:43pm

Eyeball is filled with a viscous jelly (not a gas, which obviously would expand a great deal) Sadly I never did get the chance to cut into a cow's eyeball in biology class, but the teacher seemed to have to put a fair bit of effort into it. They're fairly strong. (Actually there is some sort of level of pressure within the eyeball in normal use - glaucoma is the condition where this pressure becomes excessive.)

Lungs are at risk of bursting if the subject attempts to hold their breath. This is an issue in scuba diving emergency ascents. The bends might paralyse you, but this will kill you...

Eardrums should be fine (not necessarily comfortable) if the eustachian tubes etc. aren't blocked. If you remove pressure from one side, it's not a problem unless a greater pressure is trapped on the other side.

You're not supposed to go scuba diving if you're suffering from a cold etc. which makes it harder to equalise the pressure inside and outside your ear.

Edit: more fun reading here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barotrauma

Hotblack Desiato · 26-02-2013 2:51pm

robindch wrote: »

you'd probably just hear a tiny pop as the air vacates the middle ear, and then dead silence.

In space, no-one can hear you scream - but there's no air to scream with :pac:

seamus · 26-02-2013 3:04pm

You're never alone so long as you have tinnitus.

Bannasidhe · 26-02-2013 3:05pm

ninja900 wrote: »

Lungs are at risk of bursting if the subject attempts to hold their breath. This is an issue in scuba diving emergency ascents. The bends might paralyse you, but this will kill you...

Saw a doco many years ago where WWII submariners were describing how they were 'told' - no training or practice runs' - to exhale during assent. One man was saying how unnatural this felt as his every instinct told him to hold his breathe but he did it anyway and was so terrified he s**t himself on the way. But, he made it to the surface alive unlike his mate whose lungs exploded on the way...

Eardrums should be fine (not necessarily comfortable) if the eustachian tubes etc. aren't blocked. If you remove pressure from one side, it's not a problem unless a greater pressure is trapped on the other side.

You're not supposed to go scuba diving if you're suffering from a cold etc. which makes it harder to equalise the pressure inside and outside your ear.

I know someone who made this mistake - her eardrum exploded and she spent 2 weeks in a Turkish hospital.

Sarky · 26-02-2013 4:36pm

I did an emergency ascent from 40-45m below sea level once. Not your lovely clear blue warm Mediterranean ocean either, the freezing murky black depths of Killary Harbour in Mayo. It's bloody hard to keep your cool, especially when the mouthpiece gets knocked out of your mouth and in the panic you accidentally replace it with the snorkel and breathe in a half lungful of salt water. The urge not to breathe is overpowering. Didn't get the bends, although I was rushed off to a hyperbaric chamber within 90 minutes, but man, any teeth with fillings are a problem- Tiny little holes or pores let air in under pressure when you're down there, and when you get out, it tries to escape the same way. Ouchies.

Had my ear drum pierced as well when I had glandular fever to remove trapped fluid as my eustachian tubes were pretty much shut tight. Sharp pain that can be so intense as to mess up your balance doesn't quite cover it.

robindch · 27-02-2013 12:08pm

This is your universe and these are what it's made of.

The much larger original here.

Cork boy 55 · 27-02-2013 7:37pm

Found God!!!!!!!!

near earth object 1991 VG

Due to its unusual orbit and rapid variation in brightness, there was early speculation that it could be a extraterrestrial object.

Steele, D. (1995). "SETA and 1991 VG". The Observatory 115: 78–83.
SETA and 1991 VG

robindch · 28-02-2013 11:37am

From the WTF/SciFi drawer:

"You can send them a text file and they'll send you back physical DNA."

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/02/27/programming-life-with-click-mouse/

Fox News wrote:

Biochemical engineers can now download a piece of software and, with a few simple clicks, assemble the DNA for new life forms through their laptops.

“With the proper computer tools, biologists can write their own genetic code -- and then turn that code into life,” said biochemist Omri Amirav-Drory, who founded Genome Compiler Corp., the company that built the software.
He demonstrated for FoxNews.com at a Starbucks early one morning by manipulating a bacteria's genes on his MacBook.

The left side of the Genome Compiler app lists folders for known viruses, bacteria and other organisms, each storing files of genome sequences, the unique biological stamp encoded in an organism's DNA. The software offers tools to add extra genes, mutate proteins, or toss in a few amino acids. If a particular genetic sequence is not in the list, the compiler downloads it from a library at the National Institute of Health. Once satisfied with the results, a scientist can save her invention to a file, click the order button and ship the virtual creature’s specs to a DNA synthesizing lab such as GenScript or GeneArt, which can assemble actual physical DNA based on the specs.

The synthetic biology app is still in beta; on Jan. 15, the company added an undo feature and support for new DNA file formats. Building creatures is increasingly like word processing, it would seem. But such is the strange reality in the age of cheap genome sequencing, DNA synthesizing and "bioinformatics." A Fulbright Scholar with a Ph.D. from Tel Aviv University, Amirav-Drory has simply merged two fields: computer science and biochemical engineering.

“Computers understand code and living things understand the language of DNA,” he said. The software has built-in biosecurity measures to stop someone from building Ebola and other deadly agents, Amirav-Drory said, and assembling complex creatures that think is still far, far off. But it will let scientists program simple new microorganisms that can clean our air and water or produce energy just by coding their DNA in a certain way. John Cumbers, a synthetic biologist at the NASA Ames Research Center who has been using the genome compiler, says it speeds up his DNA work approximately ten times.

“You . . . lay out all the parts of the genetic constructs that you’re working with and then reconstruct your genetic circuits just by clicking and moving things around on the screen,” he said.

[...]

legspin · 28-02-2013 11:43am

Originally Posted by Fox News

Sorry Rob, if they told me the sky was blue I would have to go and check for myself.

robindch · 28-02-2013 12:24pm

legspin wrote: »

Sorry Rob, if they told me the sky was blue I would have to go and check for myself.

Yes, I concur. However, the gene-compiler website seems legit:

http://www.genomecompiler.com/

and, being an optimistic type, well, Fox News can't lie about everything, can they? :eek:

Bannasidhe · 28-02-2013 12:28pm

robindch wrote: »

Yes, I concur. However, the gene-compiler website seems legit:

http://www.genomecompiler.com/

and, being an optimistic type, well, Fox News can't lie about everything, can they? :eek:

They are bound to slip up and report something factual at some point.

robindch · 28-02-2013 12:55pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

They are bound to slip up and report something factual at some point.

Winston Churchill wrote:

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.

.

legspin · 28-02-2013 1:00pm

robindch wrote: »

Yes, I concur. However, the gene-compiler website seems legit:

http://www.genomecompiler.com/

and, being an optimistic type, well, Fox News can't lie about everything, can they? :eek:

Maybe not, but I think you can rest assured you aren't getting the whole truth.

I am reminded of what Harry S Truman said about Richard Nixon.

Richard Nixon is a no good, lying bastard. He can lie out of both sides of his mouth at the same time, and if he ever caught himself telling the truth, he'd lie just to keep his hand in.

legspin · 28-02-2013 2:42pm

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/27/scientists-uncover-invisible-motion-in-video/?smid=fb-share

If posted before, apologies.

Sarky · 28-02-2013 5:02pm

robindch wrote: »

Yes, I concur. However, the gene-compiler website seems legit:

http://www.genomecompiler.com/

and, being an optimistic type, well, Fox News can't lie about everything, can they? :eek:

Well I'd believe the software exists, once you have gene sequences it's not hard to string them together. Hell, I've done that in Notepad, which is generally the tool of choice in bioinformatics.

Actually synthesising the dna though, that's a problem. Current technology can't really do more than a few thousand base pairs at a time before the error rate makes longer sequences totally unreliable. When most bacterial chromosomes are several million base pairs long containing up to 10,000 genes, and multi-cellular organisms usually orders of magnitude longer, I'd be fairly confident that Fox have maintained their integrity and stayed away from the whole story.

Interesting Stuff Thread

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