Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Straight Talker · 19-02-2013 10:20pm

KevIRL wrote: »

Gotta be realistic and say that this year is most likely gonna be a struggle for us. A lot of inexperience in the squad and the huge concern will be where are the scores gonna come from. With just 6 teams div 1A is going to be so competitive and most likely the relegation play teams will be 2 from Clare, Cork and ourselves. With that in mind the first 2 games are crucial - away to Clare and home to Cork. Remember though even if we did lose all the league games then all is not lost, the relegated team is still decided by a play off between 5th and 6th place teams.

Funnily enough I would have preferred if we had gotten KK or Cork first up as I think they may very well get off to poor starts this season but then recover.

To be honest i wouldn't be surprised if ye beat Clare in the championship.In fact i think ourselves and Waterford could be a good outside bet for a munster title.

robopaddy · 19-02-2013 10:38pm

Black Suir wrote: »

Where are people going on Sunday, to Ennis to watch the senior hurlers or to Tipperary Town for the Harty Cup?

A crazy call to have both games on at the same time. It should what say we in Waterford have around the fixture table at provincial and national level. Maybe it is a case of what the county board did a few years ago starting to come back to haunt us. Waterford telling the Munster Council where they would and would not play a Munster Final was madness. Has anyone noticed that at Munster Council level, right now we are the only county not to have a person sitting around the table as an officer.

im going to ennis for the waterford game then stop off in tipptown on the way home for the colleges game. hopefully it will be over in ennis as a contest at half time, make a bust for it at half time get the hang-sangidges in on the way back and get the last 15 mins of the colleges game.

Mountainlad · 20-02-2013 12:41am

robopaddy wrote: »

team for sunday

1. s o'keeffe
2. n.connors
3. l.lawlor
4. s. daniels
5. d.fives
6. m.walsh
7. r.foley
8. ph.mahony
9. k.moran
10. p.mahony
11. s o'sullivan
12. s.molumphy
13. j.mullane
14. s.walsh
15. j.dillon

Ehhhhhh?

Did Davy Fitz reveal our team or something?

Actually had to do a double take to spot the others.

PTH2009 · 20-02-2013 1:52pm

davy saying Mullane will be back for Waterford

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/2013/0220/368675-mullane-may-return-claims-fitzgerald/

Ballyvoile Boy · 20-02-2013 2:32pm

That's unlike Davy to be seeking attention the week of a match.......

Straight Talker · 20-02-2013 4:34pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

davy saying Mullane will be back for Waterford

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/2013/0220/368675-mullane-may-return-claims-fitzgerald/

Im speaking as a neutral observer here albeit a neutral who's second favourite gaa county is Waterford.It looks to me that Davey is stirring the **** and trying to put pressure on Michael Ryan.John might be back come the championship but the man made a decision and it needs to be respected.Daveys comments a while ago attacking Michael Ryan for saying that Waterford were in a period of transition were also disgraceful.Davey Fitzgerald is no longer involved with the Waterford hurling team he should keep his nose out of Waterfords affairs and concentrate on his Clare team and his LIT team.That's enough to keep him busy.To be honest i have no time for Davey i see him as a man with a serious ego.In fact i'd love to see Waterford put him and Clare back in their boxes in the championship to setup another clash with Cork.:)

alllcounty · 20-02-2013 5:42pm

Straight Talker wrote: »

Im speaking as a neutral observer here albeit a neutral who's second favourite gaa county is Waterford.It looks to me that Davey is stirring the **** and trying to put pressure on Michael Ryan.John might be back come the championship but the man made a decision and it needs to be respected.Daveys comments a while ago attacking Michael Ryan for saying that Waterford were in a period of transition were also disgraceful.Davey Fitzgerald is no longer involved with the Waterford hurling team he should keep his nose out of Waterfords affairs and concentrate on his Clare team and his LIT team.That's enough to keep him busy.To be honest i have no time for Davey i see him as a man with a serious ego.In fact i'd love to see Waterford put him and Clare back in their boxes in the championship to setup another clash with Cork.:)

I agree he shouldn't have made the comment Michael Ryan needs to stop hiding behind the excuse the team is in transition as he himself had allready blooded a good few players while he was there and so on. I also think the decision made by mullane needs to be accepted and he shouldn't be saying he think's he will be back for the championship as that uncertainity leads to rummers and what not.

Anyway congrats to WIT on their 4 point win over LIT today. UCD also beat UL so looks like Eamon Creegan's Mary I is the last limerick college left in the competition. It would be a boost to the county if WIT were to go all the way with so many waterford players on the team. I remember a time not all that long ago when WIT never had a waterford player on the starting 15 back in the early noughties when they were wining fitzgibbons and now they have 9 or 10 on the starting team so it bodes well for the future.

seananigans · 20-02-2013 6:27pm

In fairness the team has been in transition for 5 years. I think that should be completed by now.

Davy love him or loathe him did a clean sweep in Clare but last year and is level pegging with ourselves in terms of bookies odds.

The team is very recognisable and also young, what most people are calling a crisis, is really an opportunity, with Cork out of contention for 2-3 years, and Killkenny suffering injuries due to the age of their panel (not to mention shefflin on his last legs,and Cody likely to finish soon),as well as Tipp having issues,I think the next 3 years will be a great time to break fromthe pack and have our own spell of dominance.

Sadly anytime we had a good season in the past ,so did everyone else, I think right now there is a window, but league form will let us know a bit better.

Straight Talker · 20-02-2013 7:15pm

seananigans wrote: »

In fairness the team has been in transition for 5 years. I think that should be completed by now.

Davy love him or loathe him did a clean sweep in Clare but last year and is level pegging with ourselves in terms of bookies odds.

The team is very recognisable and also young, what most people are calling a crisis, is really an opportunity, with Cork out of contention for 2-3 years, and Killkenny suffering injuries due to the age of their panel (not to mention shefflin on his last legs,and Cody likely to finish soon),as well as Tipp having issues,I think the next 3 years will be a great time to break fromthe pack and have our own spell of dominance.

Sadly anytime we had a good season in the past ,so did everyone else, I think right now there is a window, but league form will let us know a bit better.

Right i'll pass that on to JBM so he won't be wasting his time.He may as well not bother we haven't a hope.We haven't got a prayer.We all may as well pack it in Waterford are going to be the new Kilkenny for the next decade.:D Seriously though i do think Cork won't be winning senior all irelands until the underage teams start winning again but munster is very open.Right now i see Cork and Waterford as being at similar stages of development.Both counties are in a transition period after being serious all ireland contenders during the past decade.Oh and Kilkenny won't be going away anytime soon the conveyor belt there is still churning out the players.However i think they might come closer to the rest of the pack when Henry retires.As for Tipp i think they'll be back to their best under Eamon O'Shea.

Mountainlad · 20-02-2013 7:17pm

seananigans wrote: »

In fairness the team has been in transition for 5 years. I think that should be completed by now.

Davy love him or loathe him did a clean sweep in Clare but last year and is level pegging with ourselves in terms of bookies odds.

The team is very recognisable and also young, what most people are calling a crisis, is really an opportunity, with Cork out of contention for 2-3 years, and Killkenny suffering injuries due to the age of their panel (not to mention shefflin on his last legs,and Cody likely to finish soon),as well as Tipp having issues,I think the next 3 years will be a great time to break fromthe pack and have our own spell of dominance.

Sadly anytime we had a good season in the past ,so did everyone else, I think right now there is a window, but league form will let us know a bit better.

Should the transition be over? Given we've just lost our best player, another who was man of the match twice last year in 3 games and another who was considered to be one of the best prospects in the County after the 2009 minor win that statement is in doubt.

Imagine Kilkenny losing Shefflin, Walsh and Buckley, Tipp losing Paudie Maher, Bonner Maher and Brian O Meara. It would have a significant impact on them. Now, imagine teams more our level like Galway losing Joe Canning, Johnny Coen and Niall Burke, Limerick losing Donal O Grady, Hannon and Dowling and Clare losing Conlon, McGrath and Tony Kelly. Where would they be?

I'd question that Davy did a 'clean sweep' as well. 9 players that started the 2011 Munster semi (against Tipp) started in the 2012 Munster semi (against us), Honan would have started last year but was injured. Fergal Lynch came on, and Colin Ryan who started last year came on in 2011 and has been on the team since 2009. They have also won 2 all-ireland u21 titles since 2009, and won two minor Munsters in that time as well. So any manager with any credibility would automatically be looking to those players, especially in Clare where there is a serious lack of established Senior player. Bookies odds mean nothing, and cannot be taken as a sign that a team is progressing well.

I'd be very cautious about any assessment of the team right now.

seananigans · 20-02-2013 8:16pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

Should the transition be over? Given we've just lost our best player, another who was man of the match twice last year in 3 games and another who was considered to be one of the best prospects in the County after the 2009 minor win that statement is in doubt.

Imagine Kilkenny losing Shefflin, Walsh and Buckley, Tipp losing Paudie Maher, Bonner Maher and Brian O Meara. It would have a significant impact on them. Now, imagine teams more our level like Galway losing Joe Canning, Johnny Coen and Niall Burke, Limerick losing Donal O Grady, Hannon and Dowling and Clare losing Conlon, McGrath and Tony Kelly. Where would they be?

I'd question that Davy did a 'clean sweep' as well. 9 players that started the 2011 Munster semi (against Tipp) started in the 2012 Munster semi (against us), Honan would have started last year but was injured. Fergal Lynch came on, and Colin Ryan who started last year came on in 2011 and has been on the team since 2009. They have also won 2 all-ireland u21 titles since 2009, and won two minor Munsters in that time as well. So any manager with any credibility would automatically be looking to those players, especially in Clare where there is a serious lack of established Senior player. Bookies odds mean nothing, and cannot be taken as a sign that a team is progressing well.

I'd be very cautious about any assessment of the team right now.

I never said we were a great team right now, I merely said there is a great opportunity.

Anytime Waterford had a good streak,we ran up against a period of dominance of another team. If lightning were to strike, there is no time like the present

There is a real opportunity for Waterford ,Cork ,Clare and Galway that there wasn't n previous years.

Time willl tell if it is taken.

Straight Talker · 20-02-2013 8:30pm

seananigans wrote: »

I never said we were a great team right now, I merely said there is a great opportunity.

Anytime Waterford had a good streak,we ran up against a period of dominance of another team. If lightning were to strike, there is no time like the present

There is a real opportunity for Waterford ,Cork ,Clare and Galway that there wasn't n previous years.

Time willl tell if it is taken.

That's true but i think Galway are well ahead of Cork Waterford Clare etc.They had the winning of the all ireland the first day in the final but they got too defensive and tried to hold onto the lead in the second half.The replay turned on a missed goal chance and a sending off.Galway were well in the game up to that point.

seananigans · 20-02-2013 9:04pm

Straight Talker wrote: »

That's true but i think Galway are well ahead of Cork Waterford Clare etc.They had the winning of the all ireland the first day in the final but they got too defensive and tried to hold onto the lead in the second half.The replay turned on a missed goal chance and a sending off.Galway were well in the game up to that point.

Galway have habitually followed a good year with a bad one ,so they will need to break a habit of a lifetime to continue.

That being said ,I believe they can do it,but until i see some league form wouldn't be sure.

I think we could have a late- 90's style spell coming soon if we are really lucky.

Anything to break the monotony of KK,KK ,KK Tipp KK,KK,KK

Straight Talker · 20-02-2013 10:04pm

seananigans wrote: »

Galway have habitually followed a good year with a bad one ,so they will need to break a habit of a lifetime to continue.

That being said ,I believe they can do it,but until i see some league form wouldn't be sure.

I think we could have a late- 90's style spell coming soon if we are really lucky.

Anything to break the monotony of KK,KK ,KK Tipp KK,KK,KK

This will probably be dismissed as typical Cork arrogance ! but here is an excerpt from an interview with Cork panel member Stephen White in one of the papers today.

Being from Cork every time any of us put on the jersey we all think we are going to win no matter who we are playing and that includes Tipp on saturday night because as much as we respect them we also believe in our own ability to overcome them.I as a Cork man do not believe in fearing any other county and this current group of players has no baggage from the past of having to take these teams on and lose either.The attitude we have this year and the attitude Jimmy and the rest of the management brings to the panel is that we have the ability and belief to beat absolutely any team that stands in our way.

Now i think Cork are far from the finished article but it's nice to see that the belief is there.The days of Waterford being beaten by a team before the throw in are long gone too with the exception of maybe Kilkenny in recent times.Young players coming through in Waterford now have no fears of Cork and Tipp.If the players have the confidence and belief then that's half the battle already covered.

Mountainlad · 21-02-2013 12:04am

It depends on the draw, but I doubt Galway will reach the heights of last year. The only way I'd see them being back in the All-Ireland final is simple by lack of competition. But I think Tipp are the team to challenge Kilkenny this year. Would love if I was wrong and somebody else came along. I don't like Davy, but I certainly wouldn't begrudge the people of Clare their day if they stepped up to the mark this year.

I do believe the championship is getting really competitive, and the year will come where it's hard to call, but I think we still might be a few years away as teams like Limerick, Galway, Clare and Cork (if there's going to be a resurrgance) are still a bit green. As for ourselves, I think we're in the same boat as Cork but probably with more young players coming through, but I think in terms of developing that talent we may be slightly behind Galway and Limerick. Clare have the best young players in the Country, but they still only won one game last year in the championship (same as ourselves). They have a better platform to work from this year so it'll be interesting to see how they progress.

mccarthy37 · 21-02-2013 12:11am

My big worry for our match against Clare next Sunday is the hiding we took from Clare at under 21 in Ennis last year. WE also lost heavily to Tip in minor. Now we taught we had plenty of talent on these panels at the start of last year. These are the players of the future for Waterford and its very hard to see how they will turn these poor results around as some of them don the senior jersey this year. With all the good work that's being done at school level it doesn't seem to be following through. All through the noughties we moulded a senior team from underage that never achieved much. But still we never won the big prize. Great win for WIT today it might trickle down to the lads for Sunday. Here's hoping for a good match that will hold us all in our seats for the full 70 minutes and banish the memory of last year at the same venue. Best of luck to Dungarvan Colleges for Sunday also in another tough match to call.

Straight Talker · 21-02-2013 1:02am

Mountainlad wrote: »

It depends on the draw, but I doubt Galway will reach the heights of last year. The only way I'd see them being back in the All-Ireland final is simple by lack of competition. But I think Tipp are the team to challenge Kilkenny this year. Would love if I was wrong and somebody else came along. I don't like Davy, but I certainly wouldn't begrudge the people of Clare their day if they stepped up to the mark this year.

I do believe the championship is getting really competitive, and the year will come where it's hard to call, but I think we still might be a few years away as teams like Limerick, Galway, Clare and Cork (if there's going to be a resurrgance) are still a bit green. As for ourselves, I think we're in the same boat as Cork but probably with more young players coming through, but I think in terms of developing that talent we may be slightly behind Galway and Limerick. Clare have the best young players in the Country, but they still only won one game last year in the championship (same as ourselves). They have a better platform to work from this year so it'll be interesting to see how they progress.

If Galway can improve on last year then they will be in a very strong position to challenge.They put it up to Kilkenny three times last year and the replay of the all ireland final changed course after a sending off.As for ourselves i think the hurlers are in Cork but due to politics in the county board the hurling talent is not being developed properly for instance there's promising players coming through like Conor Lehane and Jamie Coughlan etc but they were poorly coached going up through the underage ranks.Realistically the all ireland is between Kilkenny Tipp and Galway but munster is very open.I wouldn't write off Waterfords chances of winning munster at all and Waterfords league game with Cork could be a relegation decider.

Straight Talker · 21-02-2013 1:09am

mccarthy37 wrote: »

My big worry for our match against Clare next Sunday is the hiding we took from Clare at under 21 in Ennis last year. WE also lost heavily to Tip in minor. Now we taught we had plenty of talent on these panels at the start of last year. These are the players of the future for Waterford and its very hard to see how they will turn these poor results around as some of them don the senior jersey this year. With all the good work that's being done at school level it doesn't seem to be following through. All through the noughties we moulded a senior team from underage that never achieved much. But still we never won the big prize. Great win for WIT today it might trickle down to the lads for Sunday. Here's hoping for a good match that will hold us all in our seats for the full 70 minutes and banish the memory of last year at the same venue. Best of luck to Dungarvan Colleges for Sunday also in another tough match to call.

Wasn't Waterfords resurgence as a hurling power based on the minor team that got to an all ireland final in 1992 and the u21 team that won an all ireland that same year.

Giveitfong · 21-02-2013 3:04am

The only players from those two teams to make a substantial contribution to the Waterford hurling renaissance were Paul Flynn and Tom Feeney from the minor team and Tony Browne and Fergal Hartley from the Under 21s. If Johnny Brenner and Growler Daly hadn't dropped out we could have been really serious contenders. Joxer O'Connor wasn't good enough and Anthony Kirwan made a few appearances and that was about it.

mccarthy37 · 21-02-2013 11:17am

Straight Talker wrote: »

Wasn't Waterfords resurgence as a hurling power based on the minor team that got to an all ireland final in 1992 and the u21 team that won an all ireland that same year.

Eoin Kelly, John Mullane, Dan Shanaan, Ken McGrath. Eoin Murphy, Eoin McGrath Brick Walsh, Sheamus Pendergast, none of these players won even a minor Munster title. Our first Senior Munster Title in 39 yrs was in 2002 ten years after the under 21 All Ireland. You are right though it lit the spark for what came after but you have to admit this was quite a gap and still some great player came through to play senior without ever achieving much at underage. Still though you cant beat winning titles at underage to have the confidence to go on and win at senior.

robopaddy · 21-02-2013 11:17am

Fancy tipp to bate the cats this year. Theyll be hurting after last year and they have the players to turn it around. Dont see galway repeating last years exploits. Cork i think are gonners. Staring relegation in the face and could be looking at christy ring status in a couple years. The talent just isnt there anymore and expect a few more hurlers to turn to the big ball in order to get success

hardybuck · 21-02-2013 11:19am

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Eoin Kelly, John Mullane, Dan Shanaan, Ken McGrath. Eoin Murphy, Eoin McGrath Brick Walsh, Sheamus Pendergast, none of these players won even a minor Munster title. Our first Senior Munster Title in 39 yrs was in 2002 ten years after the under 21 All Ireland. You are right though it lit the spark for what came after but you have to admit this was quite a gap and still some great player came through to play senior without ever achieving much at underage. Still though you cant beat winning titles at underage to have the confidence to go on and win at senior.

I wonder how many of those you've mentioned had even won a game at minor or U21 level. Don't forget how appalling the underage hurling record was.

Mountainlad · 21-02-2013 11:19am

robopaddy wrote: »

Fancy tipp to bate the cats this year. Theyll be hurting after last year and they have the players to turn it around. Dont see galway repeating last years exploits. Cork i think are gonners. Staring relegation in the face and could be looking at christy ring status in a couple years. The talent just isnt there anymore and expect a few more hurlers to turn to the big ball in order to get success

Never gonna happen.

hardybuck · 21-02-2013 11:22am

alllcounty wrote: »

Anyway congrats to WIT on their 4 point win over LIT today. UCD also beat UL so looks like Eamon Creegan's Mary I is the last limerick college left in the competition. It would be a boost to the county if WIT were to go all the way with so many waterford players on the team. I remember a time not all that long ago when WIT never had a waterford player on the starting 15 back in the early noughties when they were wining fitzgibbons and now they have 9 or 10 on the starting team so it bodes well for the future.

I think the lack of Waterford players playing with WIT was more down to how few of our players in that era actually went to third level at all. Few enough if you look back at them.

WIT have Mary I in the semi now, and must be favourites to win that.

Mountainlad · 21-02-2013 11:22am

hardybuck wrote: »

I wonder how many of those you've mentioned had even won a game at minor or U21 level. Don't forget how appalling the underage hurling record was.

Fairly sure Mullane and Kelly were on the u21 team that bet Tipp in Thurles in 2000. Also, we reached three Minor finals in a row between 94-96 as far as I know. Ken would have been on one of thos for sure along with Dan Im sure.

hardybuck · 21-02-2013 11:25am

Mountainlad wrote: »

Fairly sure Mullane and Kelly were on the u21 team that bet Tipp in Thurles in 2000. Also, we reached three Minor finals in a row between 94-96 as far as I know. Ken would have been on one of thos for sure along with Dan Im sure.

Fair enough. I remember an extremely bleak period, the guts of a decade or more, where the minors and U21's were just being beaten in the first round every year.

I'm sure there is someone with memory far better than mine who can chart that period.

Black Suir · 21-02-2013 2:56pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

Fairly sure Mullane and Kelly were on the u21 team that bet Tipp in Thurles in 2000. Also, we reached three Minor finals in a row between 94-96 as far as I know. Ken would have been on one of thos for sure along with Dan Im sure.

Ken was there in '96. He had a great game against Clare in Bansha. It was the night that Waterford had a Sub keeper ready to go on. He was warming up for much of the second half but never went on. These were the days I think you could only use three subs, and I dont think any selector would think of changing a keeper during a game unless they had to. There must be something wrong with the keeper that night. I think he was from Mount Sion/Roanmore or Passage. However he did not come off. Whether it was the case he would not come off or the selectors were taking a gamble on him and only had the sub keeper warm up as a just in case.

Mountainlad · 21-02-2013 6:07pm

Just looked at Clare's team from the Crystal Cup final and there's no doubt about it but that they will be fielding a strong team. Honan will probably start, and I'd say Conlon who wasn't involved that day will come in too as they look to strengthen even more.

We will field the strongest team available to us. I think the backline is pretty certain barring injuries in terms of who will be there for the championship. Personnel between the half foward line and midfield is between 7 at most I reckon. The corner forward spots are where most of the uncertainty lies as there are 6 players battling for two spots. Management will name the strongest team available to them in their opinion for now on Sunday, which may change by the time championship roles round. Maurice Shanahan is the only player out as far as I'm aware. I'm gonna make a prediction that 13 of Sunday's team will start against Clare in the championship, provided all 15 are fit.

With all this in consideration, I reckon it's going to be a good game on Sunday, or at least a good contest.

thesultan · 21-02-2013 6:12pm

Match is deferred on Sunday on TG4

skaface · 21-02-2013 6:16pm

For those unable to travel to Ennis, i see it is advertised as the deferred game
on TG4 on Sunday.

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Comments