Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

pigtown · 29-01-2013 11:43pm

I'm not clutching at anything. As it stands Limerick-Limerick Junction takes 25mins and Limerick Junction-Cork takes 1hr, while CityLink takes 1hr30mins. Galway-Limerick can be done in 1h50mins while CityLink takes 1h20mins.
I just wonder would it take much investment to speed up the train along the entire route.

Sponge Bob · 29-01-2013 11:51pm

pigtown wrote: »

I'm not clutching at anything. As it stands Limerick-Limerick Junction takes 25mins and Limerick Junction-Cork takes 1hr, while CityLink takes 1hr30mins. Galway-Limerick can be done in 1h50mins while CityLink takes 1h20mins.
I just wonder would it take much investment to speed up the train along the entire route.

Good point, unfortunately one has never been able to buy a Galway - Limerick rail ticket online, much less a through ticket, and must therefore change at Portarlington or even further east to get to Cork.

Such a facility on the IE website would be a good start, a spot of marketing would be nice too.

The Idyl Race · 29-01-2013 11:51pm

pigtown wrote: »

I'm not clutching at anything. As it stands Limerick-Limerick Junction takes 25mins and Limerick Junction-Cork takes 1hr, while CityLink takes 1hr30mins. Galway-Limerick can be done in 1h50mins while CityLink takes 1h20mins.
I just wonder would it take much investment to speed up the train along the entire route.

You raise a worthwhile point, but the question remains whether either CIE or even the Government are in any way serious about doing anything that would increase speeds or even traffic on the line.

As for here, sure didn't one fella recently express himself in fairly forthright terms that having good rolling stock on it was Heresy. Perhaps ye'd like these on it, lads:

pigtown · 30-01-2013 12:29am

Does anybody with knowledge of these things know how much faster trains could go if say they didn't stop at any of the stops between Galway and Limerick, and passing loops were built between Limerick and Ennis, and Limerick and the Junction?

corktina · 30-01-2013 12:44am

pigtown wrote: »

I'm not clutching at anything. As it stands Limerick-Limerick Junction takes 25mins and Limerick Junction-Cork takes 1hr, while CityLink takes 1hr30mins. Galway-Limerick can be done in 1h50mins while CityLink takes 1h20mins.
I just wonder would it take much investment to speed up the train along the entire route.

we already wasted €106 million plus the operating losses. There are far better ways to invest money than throwing it at this line.

Sponge Bob · 30-01-2013 1:38am

Ennis - Athenry and Tuam - Colooney were BUILT as LIGHT railways. Meandering twisty and riddled with gates to allow farmers to move their cattle.

The cost of upgrading them to HEAVY rail is prohibitive and even some of the fans of the WRC in this thread have suggested or at least hinted at running the WRC up the middle of the Tuam - Colooney Dualler which is ( and will be) stuck in the nether regions of the road project pipeline....simply in order to benefit from the superior straighter alignment the road will be built to.

I don't consider that suggestion to be as mad as some of the suggestions that WoT have come up with over the years, nevertheless I consider its execution unlikely in my lifetime.

I'll concede as follows. "The planned land take for the Atlantic Road Corridor from Tuam to Derry should be sufficient to accomodate a single track heavy rail alignment in the centre reservation".....not that I will ever personally say that to Varadkar or his successors. Someone else can with my prior blessings and good luck to them.

If a 'proper' WRC depends on co location with a 'proper' road to succeed then ......here .....c'mon.

corktina · 30-01-2013 10:05am

if you run a rail line with a road, you would have to spend a lot extra on the road because you would have to work with completely different (ie flatter) gradient profiles. It's a non-starter .

westtip · 30-01-2013 11:34am

corktina wrote: »

if you run a rail line with a road, you would have to spend a lot extra on the road because you would have to work with completely different (ie flatter) gradient profiles. It's a non-starter .

There is a point in the thinking though - the obsession WOT have, has always been with opening the old alignment - this clearly will produce a slow inefficient line. But imagine if the Galway Dublin Motorway had had a modern railway put down the central reservation with maybe one stop in Athlone accomodated in the design - The problem with focussing on renovating old railway alignments is the fact they are what they are - old rail alignments that simply will not deliver a fast competitive mode of transport.

Anyway on the roads and motorway issue - I would revert to a previous suggestion to put bus halts at key junctions so buses could operate more effectively.

I'm afraid decisions to upgrade the roads and railways together - was a decision that needed to be taken a long time ago ---- for example imagine the value of a LUAS running around the city in the central reservation of the M50....It could have been done with the will and the vision, but lets not go there eh? I recall in my dim and distant past - that the rail line from Chicago city centre to O'Hare airport runs down the middle of a central reservation of a motorway at some part of the line, someone might be able to find a pic of what I mean.

Chris_5339762 · 30-01-2013 2:44pm

A Luas along the center of the M50 would still be slower than driving it though. A 80kmh Luas with changes versus at 100kmh car with no changes. Even if it was ten minutes in favour of the Luas people still wouldn't switch from cars.

westtip · 30-01-2013 3:04pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

A Luas along the center of the M50 would still be slower than driving it though. A 80kmh Luas with changes versus at 100kmh car with no changes. Even if it was ten minutes in favour of the Luas people still wouldn't switch from cars.

Chris in an urban area like Dublin - mass transit rail is a must - many people don't have a car - its not an option. Anyway it was as pie in the sky suggestion - it's not going to happen now - my thought was merely one of conjecture - what if we had thought like this?

westtip · 30-01-2013 3:20pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

A few months back!!

http://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/latest-news/3174-freight-business-key-to-future-of-western-rail-corridor-landowners-told-there-are-no-proposals-for-claremorris-ballinrobe-greenway

.

I love this piece from that Con-telegraph url:

South Mayo’s potential for walking trails was discussed at the area committee meeting with Councillor Damien Ryan asking the council to look at routes in the Shrule/Ballycushion area.

Landowners along the old Claremorris-Ballinrobe railway line were reassured that there is no proposal to develop a greenway on that route.

Councillor O’Brien said he was all in favour of walks, however the landowners had to be in agreement with them and their views had to be respected.

Councillor Richard Finn said mention of the walkway between the two towns had raised a lot of concern and he allayed landowners’ fear, saying there was never any proposal for this route.

Sure all those walkers will do is come here walking and spending money, and then we'd have to do things like sell them beds, meals, home baked farm cakes, fresh eggs, beer (publicans), Sure what would we want all that new business and tourism in our county for? When we can sit around doing nothing and collecting subsidies and the dole.

However - it goes to show what happens when the state allows an asset to just fall into private hands of squatters - had this route been fenced off in perpetuity - or god forbid had it been turned into a path and right of way when it was closed - what would we be looking at now - Irelands oldest greenway and probably would have transformed tourism in that area. Its the the attitude of the councillors I find so bloody sad.

Councillor O’Brien added he wasn’t against greenways, but it was a case of ‘everything in its right place’. Suggestions, for example, to run a walkway alongside the railway line wouldn’t work

\of course they wouldn't work - this is Ireland - feel free to download the .pdf below and send it to patsy.

corktina · 30-01-2013 4:58pm

westtip wrote: »

Chris in an urban area like Dublin - mass transit rail is a must - many people don't have a car - its not an option. Anyway it was as pie in the sky suggestion - it's not going to happen now - my thought was merely one of conjecture - what if we had thought like this?

a Luas along the line of the M50 would be useless pretty much anyway....city mass Transit needs to radiate not circulate. Lines are needed to the places that rail doesn't currently reach, like the Airport and other suburbs

westtip · 30-01-2013 6:10pm

corktina wrote: »

a Luas along the line of the M50 would be useless pretty much anyway....city mass Transit needs to radiate not circulate. Lines are needed to the places that rail doesn't currently reach, like the Airport and other suburbs

Not sure I agree on this one Corky, there needs to be good cross links, as mentioned its not going to happen anyway - bit like the WRC I suppose, not going to happen.

corktina · 30-01-2013 6:51pm

westtip wrote: »

Not sure I agree on this one Corky, there needs to be good cross links, as mentioned its not going to happen anyway - bit like the WRC I suppose, not going to happen.

scuse me but wouldn't two radial lines make a cross link whereas the M50 goes around the place?

coylemj · 30-01-2013 6:55pm

westtip wrote: »

Sure all those walkers will do is come here walking and spending money, and then we'd have to do things like sell them beds, meals, home baked farm cakes, fresh eggs, beer (publicans), Sure what would we want all that new business and tourism in our county for? When we can sit around doing nothing and collecting subsidies and the dole.

Spend money? No they won't.

Walkers (and hill walkers) are the bottom of the pile as far as tourism goes, they bring all their own food, will not use regular B&Bs or hotels (they insist on cheap hostel accommodation) and generally spend SFA.

serfboard · 30-01-2013 8:06pm

coylemj wrote: »

Spend money? No they won't.

Walkers (and hill walkers) are the bottom of the pile as far as tourism goes, they bring all their own food, will not use regular B&Bs or hotels (they insist on cheap hostel accommodation) and generally spend SFA.

Got any evidence to back up that assertion?

coylemj · 30-01-2013 8:32pm

serfboard wrote: »

Got any evidence to back up that assertion?

First hand experience of going places with them. Hardship all the way, no dump is too sh1ty for them as long as it's the cheapest place in town. We're talking about people who think that staying in a farmhouse B&B is sinful luxury.

pigtown · 30-01-2013 8:38pm

corktina wrote: »

we already wasted €106 million plus the operating losses. There are far better ways to invest money than throwing it at this line.

Did you read any of my ideas? How would a faster journey between Limerick and Ennis, and Limerick Junction be a waste of money? If there was a direct curve at Limerick Junction then the train would be faster than the bus and the car. Surely this alone is worth investigation.

monument · 30-01-2013 8:52pm

Is there a conflict of interest in an Irish Rail employee speaking at a council meeting about rail issue?

corktina · 30-01-2013 9:40pm

pigtown wrote: »

Did you read any of my ideas? How would a faster journey between Limerick and Ennis, and Limerick Junction be a waste of money? If there was a direct curve at Limerick Junction then the train would be faster than the bus and the car. Surely this alone is worth investigation.

Faster than the car? now you are having a Giraffe!

westtip · 30-01-2013 10:07pm

coylemj wrote: »

Spend money? No they won't.

Walkers (and hill walkers) are the bottom of the pile as far as tourism goes, they bring all their own food, will not use regular B&Bs or hotels (they insist on cheap hostel accommodation) and generally spend SFA.

You never heard of the baby boomers? Empty Nesters? Retired Early birds. They want nice soft beds, good quality pub food, hot water, gourmet restaurants. They also want to stay active to walk and to cycle. Do a bit of research about walking and cycling tourism i suggest you glance through this report on the value of cycling tourism to the UK market. It was written 12 years ago.

You should also open your eyes to what the Great Western Greenway has done for for West Mayo Tourism.

http://www.sustrans.com/assets/files/Info%20sheets/ff28.pdf

pigtown · 30-01-2013 10:09pm

corktina wrote: »

Faster than the car? now you are having a Giraffe!

Google maps and AA routeplanner time it at 1h31min.

MayoForSam · 30-01-2013 10:35pm

A chink of light perhaps for the Tuam Greenway project? Chairman of Galway county council transport committee has openly admitted that bikes are more likely to be seen than trains on the old rail line and he would prefer a 'more realistic approach taken to the utilisation of this resource'.

http://www.tuamherald.ie/2013/01/30/tuam-will-see-bike-come-down-track-before-train-says-transport-chairman/

Apparently the cost of re-opening the Tuam-Athenry line has been revised down from €58 million to 'only' €38 million :rolleyes:. The councillor providing this item of information has admitted getting the Tuam greenway proposal omitted from even consideration to be included in the Galway Walking and Cycling Strategy document recently published.

I personally don't see why they can't leave the stretch between Tuam and Athenry well enough alone for now and construct a greenway on the section leading towards Milltown, this would get things moving at least.

Talk to the hand · 31-01-2013 3:07am

serfboard wrote: »

Got any evidence to back up that assertion?

Evidence? This is an internet board populated by mostly anonymous posters. Not a court of law. I guess most of us here would never know what the inside of a court looks like, thankfully. I shall now ask for evidence in other posts and see how far that goes.

Talk to the hand · 31-01-2013 3:08am

monument wrote: »

Is there a conflict of interest in an Irish Rail employee speaking at a council meeting about rail issue?

Might the employee have some understanding how railways work?

Sponge Bob · 31-01-2013 9:15am

Talk to the hand wrote: »

Might the employee have some understanding how railways work?

He might.

He would have an idea of how CIE works for sure and therefore why Ballyhaunis has the "Busiest Line" in Ireland as he said.

I'd be pure shocked if Ballindine didn't join Ballyhaunis in the great pantheon of The Busy so I would!

I'd be more interested in finding out whether the Tuam Greenway is actual policy in Galway now...or not!

The Idyl Race · 31-01-2013 12:52pm

monument wrote: »

Is there a conflict of interest in an Irish Rail employee speaking at a council meeting about rail issue?

What kiind of Kafkaesque comment is that?

The Idyl Race · 31-01-2013 12:55pm

pigtown wrote: »

Did you read any of my ideas? How would a faster journey between Limerick and Ennis, and Limerick Junction be a waste of money? If there was a direct curve at Limerick Junction then the train would be faster than the bus and the car. Surely this alone is worth investigation.

Turning around 220 pages of commentary that is broadly skeptical of enhancing any part of the WRC? Think turning around the Titanic on the ocean bed would be easier.

31-01-2013 1:16pm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0131/365466-galway-limerick-irish-rail-alan-kelly/

The Minister for Public and Commuter Transport has said he wants to see a "dramatic improvement" in the number of passengers using the Galway-Limerick train service. ...
He said the costs associated with the service meant there was a clear need to improve passenger numbers.

corktina · 31-01-2013 1:28pm

pigtown wrote: »

Did you read any of my ideas? How would a faster journey between Limerick and Ennis, and Limerick Junction be a waste of money? If there was a direct curve at Limerick Junction then the train would be faster than the bus and the car. Surely this alone is worth investigation.

You are falling into the trap of not comparing journeys properly.

No journeys start at a Railway Station, they start at your front door. To compare properly you have to include the time (and cost) of getting to the station, parking and then waiting for your train to arrive and the same the other end. This also applies to the Bus of course but NOT to the car which DOES start from your door and end up at your destination (generally), so there is no way at all that Train OR Bus will be as quick as the car and almost certainly cost more as the fixed costs of the car are mostly already paid.

The bus is already half an hour or so quicker than the train on this route and investing in a direct curve wont save anymore than few minutes and would cost a significant amount in land purchase, signalling alterations and construction costs.

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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