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Can a power shower and electric shower be setup together?

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  • 06-01-2013 3:15pm
    #1
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,657 ✭✭✭✭


    Our bathroom currently has a Triton electric shower, but I'd like to get a power shower installed.

    Is it possible to keep the electric shower in place to serve as a backup in case the boiler stops working and there's no hot water for the power shower?


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    #2
    LIFFY FISHING
    Registered Users Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭LIFFY FISHING


    mrcheez wrote: »
    Our bathroom currently has a Triton electric shower, but I'd like to get a power shower installed.

    Is it possible to keep the electric shower in place to serve as a backup in case the boiler stops working and there's no hot water for the power shower?


    Real simple no.


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    #3
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    LIFFY FISHING wrote: »
    Real simple no.

    Why not? Dont see why you would myself but surely is just more piping


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    #4
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,657 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    Dont see why you would myself

    I was thinking it would be handy as a backup in case something happened to the boiler and I needed a shower? :)


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    #5
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    mrcheez wrote: »
    I was thinking it would be handy as a backup in case something happened to the boiler and I needed a shower? :)

    Do ya have 2 cars incase one wont start?

    You could be doubling up on things all day long


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    #6
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,657 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    pretty unnecessary response but anyway would be good to see if others think it's possible.. danke :)


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    #7
    Unregistered.
    Registered Users Posts: 3,532 ✭✭✭Unregistered.


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    Do ya have 2 cars incase one wont start?

    You could be doubling up on things all day long


    Well the shower is a more practical example when the water may not be hot enough, for whatever reason.


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    #8
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    They can both be setup. It is usually done in separate bathrooms/ensuite, as having two electric showers presents its own problems, where as with one electric and one power mixer shower, both can be used at the same time.

    That advantage would be gone with both showers in the same cubicle.


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    #9
    stephendevlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭stephendevlin


    Of course you can do that. It just means your installing another shower from scratch. I have heard of a few people that have done this to take the benifit of the winter time when the heating is on and then use the electric shower when the heat wasnt on.


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    #10
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    stephendevlin wrote: »
    Of course you can do that. It just means your installing another shower from scratch. I have heard of a few people that have done this to take the benifit of the winter time when the heating is on and then use the electric shower when the heat wasnt on.

    There is that alright, which is what I do myself. Much better with both in different rooms though.


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    #11
    stephendevlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭stephendevlin


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    They can both be setup. It is usually done in separate bathrooms/ensuite, as having two electric showers presents its own problems, where as with one electric and one power mixer shower, both can be used at the same time.

    That advantage would be gone with both showers in the same cubicle.

    Robbie try not to confuse the OP :D They wont be on at the same time.

    Your right about the 2 electric showers however it can also be wired so that both electric showers can be on at the same time but thats another discussion. Its not the norm.


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    #12
    stephendevlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭stephendevlin


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    There is that alright, which is what I do myself. Much better with both in different rooms though.

    Yes Robbie. I might do what the op is saying in the near future and put in a mixer to the shower also rather than running from room to room depending if the heating is on,


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    #13
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Yes you can and with out too much of a problem either.

    For example,

    You can have a T.90 in one room and an AS 2000 in another absolutley no problem, properly plumbed both can be run at the same time.
    Or
    You can have a T.90 in each room but they both must be wired back to a switching box. Which means that both CANNOT be USED at the same time. There are two types of switch box available.
    Type 1, Gives power to whichever shower is being used first.
    Type 2, Gives one shower priority over the other. So if shower A has priority and shower B is being used and someone turns on shower A shower B stops working.

    I have done both of these type of installations with RECI sparks finishing the wiring, both never gave problems.


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    #14
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    stephendevlin wrote: »
    Robbie try not to confuse the OP :D They wont be on at the same time.
    And you know this how? Also, one of the advantage of one instant electric, and one power shower, is no priority setup is required.
    Your right about the 2 electric showers however it can also be wired so that both electric showers can be on at the same time but thats another discussion. Its not the norm.

    I think it may be you who is confused, maybe you can tell me how 2 9kw electric showers can be wired to be on at the same time in a standard 12kva supplied house, id be very interested, since a priority or nonpriority board is required for 2 electric showers.

    Edit: They will both come on if cold is selected, for anyone that likes cold showers
    stephendevlin wrote: »
    Yes Robbie. I might do what the op is saying in the near future and put in a mixer to the shower also rather than running from room to room depending if the heating is on,

    If you have to run from room to room for that reason, then easily confused you must be.


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    #15
    stephendevlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭stephendevlin


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    And you know this how? Also, one of the advantage of one instant electric, and one power shower, is no priority setup is required.



    I think it may be you who is confused, you can tell me how 2 kw electric showers can be wired to be on at the same time in a standard 12kva supplied house, id be very interested, since a priority or nonpriority board is required for 2 electric showers.



    If you have to run from room to room for that reason, then easily confused you must be.


    Sorry Robbie I wasnt trying to be mean!

    I know someone who have this installed they are the electricians not me. So your telling me there is no way possible at all in this world to run 2 electric showers at the one time.

    Why would I be confused running from room to room :D, if the waters hot I use the standard mixer in another room instead of the electric in my en-suite.



    OK I will ask the OP as thats the way I took it.

    OP Did you want the showers on in the one cubicle at the same time? or was the power shower for another cubicle or over the bath as you only mentioned one bathroom?


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    #16
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    stephendevlin wrote: »
    Sorry Robbie I wasnt trying to be mean!

    I know someone who have this installed they are the electricians not me. So your telling me there is no way possible at all in this world to run 2 electric showers at the one time.
    If you install 2 9kw electric showers on a standard house supply, they will blow the main fuse in the DB (distribution board) within minutes or less. And that is assuming nothing else is on. 2 9kw showers will take about 40 amps each. The main fuse is 63 amps. They must be wired with a priority or non priority board in such houses. A house with 3 phase suppy could run 2 or 3 electric showers together. Most houses are the standard 12kva supply though.
    Why would I be confused running from room to room :D, if the waters hot I use the standard mixer in another room instead of the electric in my en-suite.
    The quote below seems to suggest you believe it was a hassle having the different shower types in separate rooms, which is what the majority I have installed them for, have done.
    stephendevlin wrote: »
    Yes Robbie. I might do what the op is saying in the near future and put in a mixer to the shower also rather than running from room to room depending if the heating is on,
    OK I will ask the OP as thats the way I took it.

    OP Did you want the showers on in the one cubicle at the same time?

    It does not really matter, I simply said the advantage of having one electric, and one power shower, means both can be used together, an advantage many households would benefit from. The op says both in one bathroom. The second as a backup if the other is faulty. Not a great reason to put 2 shower units in a single room.

    I often use the gas heated one in summer as well, as it is no more expensive than using the electric one, and probably cheaper, and then I have some hot water for other uses too.


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    #17
    stephendevlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭stephendevlin


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    If you install 2 9kw electric showers on a standard house supply, they will blow the main fuse in the DB (distribution board) within minutes or less. And that is assuming nothing else is on. 2 9kw showers will take about 40 amps each. The main fuse is 63 amps. They must be wired with a priority or non priority board in such houses. A house with 3 phase suppy could run 2 or 3 electric showers together. Most houses are the standard 12kva supply though.


    The quote below seems to suggest you believe it was a hassle having the different shower types in separate rooms, which is what the majority I have installed them for, have done.





    It does not really matter, I simply said the advantage of having one electric, and one power shower, means both can be used together, an advantage many households would benefit from.

    I often use the gas heated one in summer as well, as it is no more expensive than using the electric one, and probably cheaper, and then I have some hot water for other uses too.


    I did say its not the norm Robbie so they must have got it to work somehow so thier setup is not standard. I was merely pointing out that its not impossible. Obviously in a standard setup you are 100% correct.

    Its not that hassle of having different showers in different rooms I mean the whole country is setup like that. All I am saying is that it would be more convenient to use the one cubicle you always shower in and have the best of both worlds which correct me if I am wrong OP is the point of this thread?

    I understand your point about the benifit of the 2 showers.


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    #18
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    I have 3 phase. So all my shower's can be on


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    #19
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    stephendevlin wrote: »
    I did say its not the norm Robbie so they must have got it to work somehow so thier setup is not standard. I was merely pointing out that its not impossible. Obviously in a standard setup you are 100% correct.
    Two electric showers will work together, with no priority board installed, the problem is, with both on together, the installation will be overloaded. 80 amps on a 63 amp fuse might last the duration of both being on for a while, with nothing else in the house on. Just because you seen 2 electric showers working in a house together, does not mean they are installed up to proper electrical standards. I have seen a few houses with 2 electric showers and no priority board installed, and they rely on not using both together by organisation. But both will work for a time together, and so all appears to work fine.

    A priority unit removes the human factor.

    Its not that hassle of having different showers in different rooms I mean the whole country is setup like that. All I am saying is that it would be more convenient to use the one cubicle you always shower in and have the best of both worlds which correct me if I am wrong OP is the point of this thread?
    The point of the thread was asking can both be installed, to have the electric as a backup, in case the mixer shower fails.

    It was not considering the advantages both types of shower offer. They are being pointed out by others now.
    I understand your point about the benifit of the 2 showers.
    I actually had the one about the central heating usage in winter typed and all, but left it out. It wouldnt be the first time id said it. Often people ask about having 2 showers in one house, for convenience of using both independently, which would be the main advantage of having one of each type, in separate rooms.

    If the op has a separate room a shower could be installed, my opinion would be to put it there. But I was not telling anyone to do anything, just pointing out advantages and options. Having both in one cubicle or bath, is of course possible.

    When someone experiences the power shower flow rate, they will prefer that shower. Although electric ones will have a higher flow rate in summer when the starting temp of the attic tank water is warmer, as their output temp is dependent on flow rate. In winter with much colder water in the attic, the electric shower flow rate will have to be a fair bit lower to get a decent temp, which makes the power mixer shower even more attractive in the winter.


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    #20
    stoneill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭stoneill


    OP - when you have your 2 showers set up in one shower room, please post a pic - but not with you in it.


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    #21
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,657 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    stephendevlin wrote: »
    OP Did you want the showers on in the one cubicle at the same time? or was the power shower for another cubicle or over the bath as you only mentioned one bathroom?

    Hi, sorry had to pop out for a tick...

    I want to mainly use the power shower with a combi-boiler. I know boilers aren't foolproof and do go down so I was wondering if it was possible to have a backup shower available (via the existing Triton electric shower I already have installed) for those occassions when I need it and haven't got time to wait for the plumber to fix it beforehand (e.g. say boiler breaks down overnight and I need a shower in the morning before going to work)

    So the two showers would be in ONE bathroom, working for the ONE bath.

    The power shower would be used 99% of the time. The electric is there just in case.

    If it's not possible that's fine, I'll remove the electric shower when I get the power shower installed, but would be nice if I could have both :)


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    #22
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    mrcheez wrote: »
    Hi, sorry had to pop out for a tick...

    I want to mainly use the power shower with a combi-boiler. I know boilers aren't foolproof and do go down so I was wondering if it was possible to have a backup shower available (via the existing Triton electric shower I already have installed) for those occassions when I need it and haven't got time to wait for the plumber to fix it beforehand (e.g. say boiler breaks down overnight and I need a shower in the morning before going to work)

    So the two showers would be in ONE bathroom, working for the ONE bath.

    The power shower would be used 99% of the time. The electric is there just in case.

    If it's not possible that's fine, I'll remove the electric shower when I get the power shower installed, but would be nice if I could have both :)

    The simple answer is, you can certainly have both.


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    #23
    Mickolob
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Mickolob


    Just get a pump fitted to you immersion tank . A decent one will cost €350.00


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    #24
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Mickolob wrote: »
    Just get a pump fitted to you immersion tank . A decent one will cost €350.00

    If the O.P. has a Combi Boiler fitted then he will not have an immersion cylinder, as the combi boiler is fitted to eliminate the need for the cylinder.

    If a Combi Boiler is installed tben the O.P. can fit a Triton T.80 or a Mira Sport mains fed electric shower as a back up shower facility.


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    #25
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,657 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    If a Combi Boiler is installed tben the O.P. can fit a Triton T.80 or a Mira Sport mains fed electric shower as a back up shower facility.

    Can you run an electric shower off the main water supply, or only from the tank in the attic?

    I've often seen messages on Triton showers saying it cannot be run from main water supply.

    Just that I may get rid of the water tank in the attic presuming I went for combi and all taps were connected to the mains, so that may negate the possibility of getting the electric backup.


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    #26
    TPM
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭TPM


    mrcheez wrote: »
    Can you run an electric shower off the main water supply, or only from the tank in the attic?

    I've often seen messages on Triton showers saying it cannot be run from main water supply.

    Just that I may get rid of the water tank in the attic presuming I went for combi and all taps were connected to the mains, so that may negate the possibility of getting the electric backup.

    Yes you can connect an electric shower to the mains, there are two types of electric showers
    Pumped (Triton T90 type) this type is for connection to attic tank type supply and should not be connected to the mains

    Non-pumped ( Triton T80 type) this type is for connection to mains supply and would function poorly if at all if connected to an attic tank


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    #27
    LIFFY FISHING
    Registered Users Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭LIFFY FISHING


    It is a water bye law that a domestic dwelling must have a cold water storage of 220litres of water, ( approx 50gallons).

    You Can get an instant shower that connects to the mains water supply, they are regularly problematic because of irratic mains pressure, you must have a SUSTAINED water pressure supply of 1 BAR pressure ( 14.4 psi = 1 bar = 10meter head pressure.)

    You Can also get an instant shower which gets its cold water supply from the tank in the attic.

    You CAN NOT get an instant power shower, you CAN NOT heat water instantly and pump it at the same time, you will notice when your instant shower is on a cold setting the pressure is better than when you turn the heat up, that is because you have restricted the flow rate by closing the flow valve on the outlet side of the heater tank, this slows the flow rate fown , sustains the water in the heater tank for longer hence a hotter shower.

    It is possible if you want to install two showers in your shower if you wish , one an instant shower of your choosing, tank or mains fed , & then install s seconf shower like a pumped shower, however they will need seperate connections right back to the cylinder & cold water sources.
    You can NOT take a common cold water supply from the cold water tank to the instant shower andthe power shower, as this will cause pulse pressure and potentially burst your instant shower.


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    #28
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,657 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    LIFFY FISHING wrote: »
    It is a water bye law that a domestic dwelling must have a cold water storage of 220litres of water, ( approx 50gallons).

    Have you got a link to that? cheers!


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    #29
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    If the O.P. has a Combi Boiler fitted then he will not have an immersion cylinder, as the combi boiler is fitted to eliminate the need for the cylinder.

    If a Combi Boiler is installed tben the O.P. can fit a Triton T.80 or a Mira Sport mains fed electric shower as a back up shower facility.

    The op already has the electric shower in. Its the mixer one which is being considered as a second install I believe.


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    #30
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,657 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    Bruthal wrote: »
    The op already has the electric shower in. Its the mixer one which is being considered as a second install I believe.

    current one is water-tank fed.. I was asking about mains-fed electric showers


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    #31
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    mrcheez wrote: »

    current one is water-tank fed.. I was asking about mains-fed electric showers

    Then the simple answer is...
    Yes you can.
    In the manner described by others and myself, as long as a priority switching relay box is installed.
    It makes no difference if the showers are in the same bathroom or different bathrooms as long as the correct wiring and plumbing installation requirements are met.


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