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C.I.E. Christmas Cracker

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  • 24-12-2012 2:33am
    #1
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭


    On possibly the busiest shopping day of the year the C.I.E. group of companies failed dismally to harness the extra revenue from shoppers.

    Sunday services operated across the board on trains and buses both city and expressway. I do understand why they wouldn't allow a normal weekday service, it's because the overtime bills would cost over twice the days takings if not more.

    The sooner these dinosaurs are extinguished and private operators contracted to do the job properly the better it will be for all concerned.

    Buses and trains may even run on time and might even be clean and comfortable unlike the ****e-heaps operating on the Waterford to Dublin route.


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    #2
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,473 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Cant be that busy if you reckon wages would still be twice revenue, that not a whole lot of revenue overall


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    #3
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    On possibly the busiest shopping day of the year the C.I.E. group of companies failed dismally to harness the extra revenue from shoppers.

    Sunday services operated across the board on trains and buses both city and expressway. I do understand why they wouldn't allow a normal weekday service, it's because the overtime bills would cost over twice the days takings if not more.

    The sooner these dinosaurs are extinguished and private operators contracted to do the job properly the better it will be for all concerned.

    Buses and trains may even run on time and might even be clean and comfortable unlike the ****e-heaps operating on the Waterford to Dublin route.

    It was a Sunday service Foggy because it was a Sunday.
    You are making a statement about overtime bills when you dont know anything about overtime in CIE.
    This thread Foggy is another lame attempt to feed your anti CIE addiction. Bring in private operators and you might have to start paying for your fares Foggy and even then you wouldnt be guaranteed that they will be any better and you would be back on here giving out about them.


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    #4
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    it's time everyone realised that Sunday is just another day now. Most shops are open all year on a sunday and there is no reason why the same services should not be available across the board.


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    #5
    The_Wrecker
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭The_Wrecker


    corktina wrote: »
    it's time everyone realised that Sunday is just another day now. Most shops are open all year on a sunday and there is no reason why the same services should not be available across the board.

    A Saturday service would cope. No need for the entire fleet to be on the road from 6.50am.


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    #6
    jahalpin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭jahalpin


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    On possibly the busiest shopping day of the year the C.I.E. group of companies failed dismally to harness the extra revenue from shoppers.

    Sunday services operated across the board on trains and buses both city and expressway. I do understand why they wouldn't allow a normal weekday service, it's because the overtime bills would cost over twice the days takings if not more.

    The sooner these dinosaurs are extinguished and private operators contracted to do the job properly the better it will be for all concerned.

    Buses and trains may even run on time and might even be clean and comfortable unlike the ****e-heaps operating on the Waterford to Dublin route.

    Why would you think a private company would run a service that would cost twice as much in wages than it would generate in revenue?

    The principle reason for a private company to exist to generate profits

    I really don't know what you have against the CIE group of companies,I use Dublin Bus on a daily basis and find the service reasonable good, especially considering the severe financial pressure they are under

    I use Irish Rail occasionly and have always found the services to be quite good and the timetables to have been set to match the demand on the routes

    I use Bus Eireann sometimes and , again, the services have always been good


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    #7
    davetherave
    Registered Users Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭davetherave


    I can't say that I know the ins and outs of what happens inside the Irish Rail ops room, but if I was to have a guess I'd say that they ran a Sunday service due to the fact that it was in fact Sunday.
    If they had run a weekday service that had gone unused then undoubtedly you would have been complaining that they were wasting more money.


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    #8
    ScouseMouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    So you think its reasonable to run a service that will cost DOUBLE what it would actually make?

    Thats the stupidest suggestion I ever heard. If you run at a loss, you lose money. As if CIE aren't in enough sh*t at the moment.

    So, if they run it at a loss, lose more cash, then look for another bail out from the government, what would you say about that?

    Listen to what you are saying man! Complete gibberish!


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    #9
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    corktina wrote: »
    it's time everyone realised that Sunday is just another day now. Most shops are open all year on a sunday and there is no reason why the same services should not be available across the board.
    Existing Sunday services are typically loaded far lighter than other weekdays. Therefore why would you want to add services if the demand isn't there?


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    #10
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    This thread is of no use to anyone.

    Sunday should be the one day that everything should shut down the way it use to. We could all do with a break from the usual rat race....

    As stated by the rest it happened to be a Sunday service because it was a Sunday and honestly today should really be a Sunday service as there is no traffic and hardly any passengers on aby of the many buses I saw this morning.

    Today should be a happy day so please stop giving out and wish you all a happy Christmas & new year..


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    #11
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Firstly there has demand for a weekday service but because of the costs of overtime and associated bonuses for the already overpaid staff it would cost the company to much to operate a weekday service on the day.

    Most private operators operate the same service Sunday as weekdays and don't have the financial burden from overpaid unionised staff that the cie group have.


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    #12
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    If there was no union there would be no job.

    Your starting to sound like some not all but some passengers that can't do anything else but winge all the time.

    Example Iv'e been waiting here for over an hour when a bus passed less then half an hour ago.

    The fares are too high. REALLY check the price of a taxi and there is always dicounts on prepaid tickets so less of the crap.

    Why are all the buses out of service why can't they bring me to where I want to go well to answer that one. That bus may be from a different garage and that driver can't be expected to know every route out there or when finished going to start picking up again and also the bus has to start somewhere else and the driving hours act.

    Stop the crying foggy sure if you feel so badly set up your own transport service and try and keep 900 od buses on the road and deal with the huge costs.


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    #13
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,994 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    shamwari wrote: »
    Existing Sunday services are typically loaded far lighter than other weekdays. Therefore why would you want to add services if the demand isn't there?

    I was out and about yesterday morning from 10AM and all I saw were empty streets in the city and equally empty buses passing me by. Where the demand was then I'd love to know where as I sure as hell didn't see it as well.


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    #14
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    miller50841 wrote: »
    Sunday should be the one day that everything should shut down the way it use to. We could all do with a break from the usual rat race....

    No it shouldn't. Not everyone is religious. It is just another day of the week, which many office workers have off, so they use that time to do necessary shopping and entertain themselves.

    No reason why they should be forced to be stuck at home being bored!!!
    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    I was out and about yesterday morning from 10AM and all I saw were empty streets in the city and equally empty buses passing me by. Where the demand was then I'd love to know where as I sure as hell didn't see it as well.

    A little early on the Sunday after the craziness of Saturday night!! Remember it was 12 pubs of Christmas night!! Town was very busy by 1.

    While not a weekday service, I think Sundays should have a Saturday schedule as standard all year round in this day and age.


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    #15
    Mr Simpson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭Mr Simpson


    miller50841 wrote: »
    This thread is of no use to anyone.

    Sunday should be the one day that everything should shut down the way it use to. We could all do with a break from the usual rat race....

    As stated by the rest it happened to be a Sunday service because it was a Sunday and honestly today should really be a Sunday service as there is no traffic and hardly any passengers on aby of the many buses I saw this morning.

    Today should be a happy day so please stop giving out and wish you all a happy Christmas & new year..

    And meanwhile in the real world, lots of us work Sundays and late evenings, CIE et al do their level worst to cater for us. For example, I'm finished work tonight at 10pm, the handiest thing for me would be to get the bus straight to the pub, but no, Dublin Bus are finishing all services before 9.

    On Fridays and Saturdays I finish at 2am, do you think theres a bus service that I could use? No, because Dublin Bus would rather run an As Seirbhis 46N right past my job into town.


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    #16
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    I was out and about yesterday morning from 10AM and all I saw were empty streets in the city and equally empty buses passing me by. Where the demand was then I'd love to know where as I sure as hell didn't see it as well.

    +1
    bk wrote: »
    A little early on the Sunday after the craziness of Saturday night!! Remember it was 12 pubs of Christmas night!! Town was very busy by 1.

    While not a weekday service, I think Sundays should have a Saturday schedule as standard all year round in this day and age.
    There's no justification for it. As Losty said above, there's not a whole lot doing on a Sunday, and the fact that it's Christmas week doesn't alter things one way or another. So again, why add capacity if demand simply isn't there?

    Oh, and I get by with a Saturday service on the northern Commuter at the mo. That'll be the case across Christmas till the 2nd of January. If the service doesn't fit my needs, there are alternatives and I will get by. I'm not expecting a full 8 car train to be leaving every ten minutes....


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    #17
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Chicken and egg...how many didn't use the buses on Sunday because there was a reduced service. If it had been vigorously advertised that there would be an (almost) full service , it may have been a different matter.

    As for overtime, well, it's time to stop paying extra for sunday work and time it was just another part of the roster.


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    #18
    Tube
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭Tube


    Anyone living on the Maynooth line, last train on Sunday is 20:50.
    Anyone living in Dunboyne, last train on Sunday is 18:17.
    Anyone living in Celbridge, last train on Sunday is 18:55.

    Meanwhile last service to Dundalk on a Sunday is 23:37.


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    #19
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    corktina wrote: »
    Chicken and egg...how many didn't use the buses on Sunday because there was a reduced service. If it had been vigorously advertised that there would be an (almost) full service , it may have been a different matter.

    As for overtime, well, it's time to stop paying extra for sunday work and time it was just another part of the roster.

    Absolutely. Lots of people work a seven day roster these days, without a Sunday premium. Logically, if, as has been stated earlier, loading is lighter on a Sunday then, by extension, the job is easier, so, again logically, you should be paid less. This archaic notion of being paid twice as much to get out of bed on one particular day of the week to do the same job is absurd and this applies to any job, not just bus drivers.


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    #20
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    bk wrote: »
    No it shouldn't. Not everyone is religious. It is just another day of the week, which many office workers have off, so they use that time to do necessary shopping and entertain themselves.

    No reason why they should be forced to be stuck at home being bored!!!

    :rolleyes:Hold on never said anything about holy so cop yourself on there .
    It would be nice to actually have a day that is just quiet and relax and spend time with friends, family and kids.


    A little early on the Sunday after the craziness of Saturday night!! Remember it was 12 pubs of Christmas night!! Town was very busy by 1.

    There were night links on and as usual way to many taxis :pac:

    While not a weekday service, I think Sundays should have a Saturday schedule as standard all year round in this day and age.
    Why sure there wouldn't be enough passengers to warrant such a service.
    If you can show there would be a demand for extra and I mean worth while extra numbers then the service would be increased.


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    #21
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    bmaxi wrote: »
    Absolutely. Lots of people work a seven day roster these days, without a Sunday premium. Logically, if, as has been stated earlier, loading is lighter on a Sunday then, by extension, the job is easier, so, again logically, you should be paid less. This archaic notion of being paid twice as much to get out of bed on one particular day of the week to do the same job is absurd and this applies to any job, not just bus drivers.

    Sure then why dont you work Sunday at normal pay if your so up for it.


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    #22
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    On possibly the busiest shopping day of the year the C.I.E. group of companies failed dismally to harness the extra revenue from shoppers.

    Sunday services operated across the board on trains and buses both city and expressway. I do understand why they wouldn't allow a normal weekday service, it's because the overtime bills would cost over twice the days takings if not more.

    The sooner these dinosaurs are extinguished and private operators contracted to do the job properly the better it will be for all concerned.

    Buses and trains may even run on time and might even be clean and comfortable unlike the ****e-heaps operating on the Waterford to Dublin route.


    Well Foggy,A Mhíc,firstly I extend to you the best wishes of the festive season....:)

    But to address the nature of your festive post,I worked my full shift yesterday from 14.50 until 00.35.

    I had occasion to pass one of Irelands largest Shopping Centres (Dundrum) on my way and found the approach roads eerily quiet...a fact which most likely rested heavily on the shoulders of British Land plc etc etc....

    A full service operated on my own route and was at no point fully subscribed...The City Centre area could have been described as "busy" but I have seen it Far Far more active believe me.

    I would agree in principle with your suggestion of throwing resources at the thing,BUT,that would have to be accompanied by a significant change in Private Car access to An Lár as well.

    Banning ALL private car and Taxi traffic from Dawson St and Georges St would,at a stroke,solve the main problem,but I'll stand well back when you make the proposal Foggy,as you will be devoured,bones and all !!

    I will not be working tomorrow,even though I am of the belief that we SHOULD be operating a service on Christmas Day,as we did when we were part of your nemisis,the OLD CIE.

    I will be back working my normal duty on st Stephens's Day as well as New Years Eve and New Years Day.....

    I'm struggling to see the point of your post Foggy,unless it;s to act as a BiSodol and release a bit of trapped Bile ?

    However I can see the more reasoned arguement here...
    MarkMc: And meanwhile in the real world, lots of us work Sundays and late evenings, CIE et al do their level worst to cater for us. For example, I'm finished work tonight at 10pm, the handiest thing for me would be to get the bus straight to the pub, but no, Dublin Bus are finishing all services before 9.

    On Fridays and Saturdays I finish at 2am, do you think theres a bus service that I could use? No, because Dublin Bus would rather run an As Seirbhis 46N right past my job into town.

    Again,I'm working a Last-Car this evening and I can be pretty certain that if I get a Half-Load I'll be doing well.

    I would suggest that MarMc's 2200 finish is difficult to cater for in mainstream public transport terms,as even dear old Veolia won't bend the knee and put on a special tram for this grouping...
    Dear Luas Customers,

    There is no Luas service from 8.00pm Christmas Eve Monday 24th December to 9:00am Wednesday 26th December.

    Equally,whilst delivering a Christmas Night Service to Green Line customers,Veolia manage to disregard the Night Service needs of Red Line folk without,apparently,anybody bothering to enquire as to why ?

    Whilst good old TfL manage to deliver something like your required level of service with their Saturday Service (perhaps due to a £400 Million Bus Subsidy)...they also bugger off for Christmas Day....bah humbug !!!

    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/26367.aspx

    Lothian Buses,as always,set the standard with their special services ON Christmas Day,however even they cease on Christmas Eve at 21.30....more bah humbugging,I fancy...:(

    http://lothianbuses.com/assets/files/Last-journeys-2412-3112.pdf

    The issue of the NiteLink service has been done to death here,but suffice to say,the actual resources and agreements for a 24 hour full service currently exist but for some mysterious reason,both Company and Authorities shy away from implementing it,as it might lead to unpleasantness with the Taxi Community I suspect....

    We,as in Dublin Bus,should by now,be operating at least 10 main trunk routes at an hourly frequency each way,but yet we regard such suggestion as the work of Satan...why....Hmmmmm,public order issues ?...and I don,t mean with the punters !!!!


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #23
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    corktina wrote: »
    Chicken and egg...how many didn't use the buses on Sunday because there was a reduced service. If it had been vigorously advertised that there would be an (almost) full service , it may have been a different matter.

    As for overtime, well, it's time to stop paying extra for sunday work and time it was just another part of the roster.

    The issue of Vigorous Advertising is central I feel,as can be evidenced by the CONSTANT stream of people I have asking..."Where can I get this...LEAPCARD...whatever it is..."

    Sunday working is NOT paid as overtime,but at enhanced Sunday rate,which is part of our negotiated agreements,all of which are on-the-negotiation-table at the moment.

    Anyway,all of this is way above my pay-grade and we'll just have to see what develops,however those who expect Bus/Coach/Truck Driving to suddenly drop down the earnings ladder really do need to accquaint themselves with the various EU Proffessional Driving Policies now being rolled out,none of which lend themselves to bargain-basement wage rates....;)

    Ho Ho Ho!...and May All The Blessings of the Christmas Season be upon yiz....(well most of Yiz anyway ;) )


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #24
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    Foggy, were you or anyone you know actually inconvenienced by this? I got a 4 car DART into Dublin city centre yesterday afternoon and it was by no means full, certainly no-one was left behind. The train home at 930 ish was virtually empty.

    So unless you have some evidence that people were caused difficulties by this it just comes across as another piece of invective which doesn't do you any favours.


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    #25
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    miller50841 wrote: »
    Sure then why dont you work Sunday at normal pay if your so up for it.

    Firstly, you don't know that I don't or that I haven't done. Secondly, the point is irrelevant, public transport is a seven day a week job, you are aware of that when you take it up. There are no restrictions on anybody applying for a Monday to Friday job and just because other jobs are scheduled over a Monday to Friday roster doesn't make them less arduous or tedious


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    #26
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    Foggy, perhaps you might ask Santa to bring you some new tail feathers.

    Your existing ones have been well and truly shot off.....:D

    But happy Christmas to you anyway!


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    #27
    ScouseMouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    I work in a shop at a terminus of an orbital bus. One that goes around the city rather than across city.

    A driver came in at 9am for a coffee. I asked him was there many out.

    His Reply?

    I carried ONE person on the whole run. ONE fecking person !

    I know it was early, but its kinda obvious to me that bus was not needed.


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    #28
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    I went into Cork City at 10am Sunday, it was quiet, but by the time I came out at 11am there was a q for the Merchants Quay car park right down the street.


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    #29
    Mr Simpson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭Mr Simpson


    I can understand people saying that the last bus will be empty etc. But I'd take a guess that most people are avoiding the city centre this evening, not because they don't want to go to town, but more because they know if they do go in, it will be an absolute nightmare to get home.


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    #30
    Heisenberg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Firstly there has demand for a weekday service but because of the costs of overtime and associated bonuses for the already overpaid staff it would cost the company to much to operate a weekday service on the day.

    Most private operators operate the same service Sunday as weekdays and don't have the financial burden from overpaid unionised staff that the cie group have.

    What overtime are you talking about in IE with the 5/7 deal some years back

    this got rid of the overtime and sunday pay. You should do some research first.


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    #31
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    The issue of Vigorous Advertising is central I feel,as can be evidenced by the CONSTANT stream of people I have asking..."Where can I get this...LEAPCARD...whatever it is..."

    Sunday working is NOT paid as overtime,but at enhanced Sunday rate,which is part of our negotiated agreements,all of which are on-the-negotiation-table at the moment.

    Anyway,all of this is way above my pay-grade and we'll just have to see what develops,however those who expect Bus/Coach/Truck Driving to suddenly drop down the earnings ladder really do need to accquaint themselves with the various EU Proffessional Driving Policies now being rolled out,none of which lend themselves to bargain-basement wage rates....;)

    Ho Ho Ho!...and May All The Blessings of the Christmas Season be upon yiz....(well most of Yiz anyway ;) )
    i wasn't referring to DB specifically, in any case "what you have you hold", however as a General Principle it's time Sunday became just another day, as it is to countless people who have to work it anyway.


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