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HSE stoops to an new low.

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    #92
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    woodoo wrote: »
    Yeah but its such an easy gripe to throw out there. Most people who complain about increments just don't understand the pay structures in the public service.

    To quote some of the govt fan boys, of which there are many on this site.

    "you know about the deficit right?"

    Ooh, and "you realise the govt are borrowing this cash to fund theses services?"


    When things got tight in my job a few years ago, everyone was subject to an 18% cut in salary, overtime was banned, and expenses were cut to the absolute bare minimum.

    I protested, my end of the business involves sales, i unsuccessfully argued that my sales figures were increasing, even through the recession, but I was told 'everybody is pissing in the one pot'.

    Some in our over protected sector need to wake up to the fact that what used to be there, isn't there any longer.


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    #93
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Lucas Castroman wrote: »
    The point which you've sadly missed is that if somebody is diagnosed with cancer and they can't afford a paltry €75 per chemo session (which is a drop in the ocean compared to actual cost) then they should seriously question how they've managed they're lives till then. I always hear this mantra "Everybody is entitled to free health care" which is rubbish. Nothing is free in this world. If you can't contibute this small sum you should not be treated.

    No hospital should be turning away any patient because they cannot pay for treatment. Things may be bad, but this is not the dark ages.

    Anyway, I will wait until I see a patient denied treatment, before I will get on my high horse. There should be access to other options if the person cannot pay upfront.

    Turn away people with terminal illness, FFS


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    #94
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Ghandee wrote: »
    To quote some of the govt fan boys, of which there are many on this site.

    "you know about the deficit right?"

    Ooh, and "you realise the govt are borrowing this cash to fund theses services?"


    When things got tight in my job a few years ago, everyone was subject to an 18% cut in salary, overtime was banned, and expenses were cut to the absolute bare minimum.

    I protested, my end of the business involves sales, i unsuccessfully argued that my sales figures were increasing, even through the recession, but I was told 'everybody is pissing in the one pot'.

    Some in our over protected sector need to wake up to the fact that what used to be there, isn't there any longer.

    You'll attract the 'we took a 15% pay cut crowd' (includes the UPC), while they conveniently forget with the other hand the are receiving increments.................but then you probably wouldn't understand the pay structures:D


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    #95
    ShiverinEskimo
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭ShiverinEskimo


    Lucas Castroman wrote: »
    The point which you've sadly missed is that if somebody is diagnosed with cancer and they can't afford a paltry €75 per chemo session (which is a drop in the ocean compared to actual cost) then they should seriously question how they've managed they're lives till then. I always hear this mantra "Everybody is entitled to free health care" which is rubbish. Nothing is free in this world. If you can't contibute this small sum you should not be treated.
    You realise you typically get more than one chemo session right?

    I'm fairly sure most probably do have it early on. But after 4 or 6 or 12 months of chemo and no work financial situations can and will change. 300 quid a month just to get the the door of a cancer ward for treatment is a lot. Maybe not to an obviously rich, sheltered, healthy person like you though.

    Your last line is simply disgusting and spoken like someone who has likely never so much as seen a cancer patient let alone be one.


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    #96
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Zulu wrote: »
    What if they have no income due to the treatment?

    Well if they have no income they wont pay and therein lies the problem, I would imagine this is why they are charging up front for the treatment now. I mean would you let a family member go untreated if they couldnt get €75 for the treatment?

    Where did you get this stat from (out of interest)?

    Its clearly a hypothetical stat used for example purposes hence the "if"


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    #97
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Boombastic wrote: »
    You'll attract the 'we took a 15% pay cut crowd' (includes the UPC), while they conveniently forget with the other hand the are receiving increments.................but then you probably wouldn't understand the pay structures:D

    And all this is related to the topic how?


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    #98
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    donalg1 wrote: »
    And all this is related to the topic how?



    Don't worry you head about it, it wasn't in response to you


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    #99
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Don't worry you head about it, it wasn't in response to you

    Unfortunately though I read it thinking it was related to the actual topic and wasnt some off topic rambling.


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    #100
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Odysseus wrote: »
    What is the next thread? Outrage at staff being paid their wage?

    I see/work with people who are in a world of pain, some won't be here next year. Don't try tell me about the real world.

    Now my break is up, I'm off to do something useful, see my next patient for which I get paid for, shocking isn't it.
    Odysseus wrote: »
    No hospital should be turning away any patient because they cannot pay for treatment. Things may be bad, but this is not the dark ages.

    Anyway, I will wait until I see a patient denied treatment, before I will get on my high horse. There should be access to other options if the person cannot pay upfront.

    Turn away people with terminal illness, FFS
    Having another break are you. Your last one only finished an hour ago. Is this indicative of work practices across the HSE?


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    #101
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Well if they have no income they wont pay and therein lies the problem, I would imagine this is why they are charging up front for the treatment now.
    Ah right, so you didn't read my other posts.
    When you are getting treatment, you are sick, and not working. When you are not working you are not getting paid.
    When you are finished your treatment, you go back to work. You start earning. And then you can repay.
    I mean would you let a family member go untreated if they couldnt get €75 for the treatment?
    I wouldn't have asked my family for help. I wouldn't want to have burdened them. You are also presupposing that the patient has a family.
    Its clearly a hypothetical stat used for example purposes hence the "if"
    ...so out of your ar$e then! Why not use 0.5% instead of 50%? (seeing as we're making up figures)


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    #102
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Boombastic wrote: »


    Having another break are you. Your last one only finished an hour ago. Is this indicative of work practices across the HSE?

    Boombastic in fairness if you have a problem with the hse fair enough but I dont see the point in getting personal at an individual working there.


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    #103
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Unfortunately though I read it thinking it was related to the actual topic and wasnt some off topic rambling.

    Let me join the dots for you


    HSE needs money so decides to charge the cancer patients. On the other hand they are handing out pay increases to already well paid staff...


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    #104
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Boombastic in fairness if you have a problem with the hse fair enough but I dont see the point in getting personal at an individual working there.

    Just wondering if it is standard practice to have a break every hour


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    #105
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Zulu wrote: »
    Ah right, so you didn't read my other posts.
    When you are getting treatment, you are sick, and not working. When you are not working you are not getting paid.
    When you are finished your treatment, you go back to work. You start earning. And then you can repay.
    I wouldn't have asked my family for help. I wouldn't want to have burdened them. You are also presupposing that the patient has a family.

    ...so out of your ar$e then! Why not use 0.5% instead of 50%? (seeing as we're making up figures)

    Because I wanted to use 50%, is that ok with you?

    Say for instance you are running a business and you provide a service this year for 100 people and bill them for it afterwards for €75 each. 50 people pay you for it and the other 50 dont meaning you are minus 3750 at the beginning of next year, when you have to provide the same service to another 100 people.

    Do you bill them afterwards again knowing you may only get a 50% collection rate?

    Do you ask them to pay you before you provide them with the service knowing this will get you a 100% collection rate?

    Or do you bill them afterwards but put the price up to €150 on the assumption that 50 people will pay again and you will break even for the year?


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    #106
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Let me join the dots for you


    HSE needs money so decides to charge the cancer patients. On the other hand they are handing out pay increases to already well paid staff...


    So you are saying that this service should be provided for free then, and that the staff should work for free to provide this service?


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    #107
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Apart from the realities of individual finances how about the unnessecery stress this causes cancer patients? Even hearing this news would cause stress to those who have cancer.


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    #108
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    donalg1 wrote: »
    So you are saying that this service should be provided for free then, and that the staff should work for free to provide this service?

    Where did I say the staff should work for free?


    This service should be provided for free, Why are we paying prsi? If the budget was distributed properly it could be provided for free


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    #109
    HondaSami
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Having another break are you. Your last one only finished an hour ago. Is this indicative of work practices across the HSE?
    Boombastic wrote: »
    Just wondering if it is standard practice to have a break every hour

    He is probably waiting on his next patient who could be delayed or cancelled. Life is not as simple as people like to think sometimes.


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    #110
    ShiverinEskimo
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭ShiverinEskimo


    donalg1 wrote: »
    So you are saying that this service should be provided for free then, and that the staff should work for free to provide this service?

    No. Read it again. That's not what he's saying at all.

    He's saying there's a possibility that maybe the staff should get paid the SAME next year for doing the job they are doing this year in lieu of additional charges to patients. Not for free. Where did you read that he thinks they should do it for free?


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    #111
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    donalg1 wrote: »


    So you are saying that this service should be provided for free then, and that the staff should work for free to provide this service?

    Or how about money from revenue or other sources of government income being used to fund an important service like health. We are an society first and an economy second.


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    #112
    Lucas Castroman
    Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Lucas Castroman


    ShiverinEskimo wrote: »
    You realise you typically get more than one chemo session right?

    I'm fairly sure most probably do have it early on. But after 4 or 6 or 12 months of chemo and no work financial situations can and will change. 300 quid a month just to get the the door of a cancer ward for treatment is a lot. Maybe not to an obviously rich, sheltered, healthy person like you though.

    Your last line is simply disgusting and spoken like someone who has likely never so much as seen a cancer patient let alone be one.

    I beg your pardon...I didn't realize you were an Oncology expert. Your attitude is quite patronizing.
    Your bleeding heart views are the main reason why the country is screwed. The state is crippled bending backwards to accomodate those who live their lives recklessly.
    I am most certainly not rich but I know if I got cancer now I would happily contibute this money. As mentioned earlier, mortality rates are high so the total fee wouldn't accumulate substantially.
    There is a sense of entitlement endemic in this society. People expect everything but should contribute nothing. This is not sustainable in the long run.
    Why should I pay for anything? Why should I bother working? I am a human-being ... Sure the state can look after me


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    #113
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Having another break are you. Your last one only finished an hour ago. Is this indicative of work practices across the HSE?

    No, I'm actually finished for the day. I could explain to how I manage that but I think it may be better for you if you think there is some type of scam involved.

    So I'm on my own time for the rest of the day. Is that ok with you? With you like to fill in a work card for me?

    So that is my position cleared up? What about you? Are you in work since you brought up the topic?


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    #114
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Or how about money from revenue or other sources of government income being used to fund an important service like health. We are an society first and an economy second.

    Believe me I am all for the HSE getting their house in order and learning to control a budget, and would wish that this treatment was free, but my point is I dont see why people are annoyed by patients being asked to pay upfront for a service. Are they saying they should only be billed afterwards? I mean really what is the difference bar the collection rates?


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    #115
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Lucas Castroman wrote: »
    .......................
    There is a sense of entitlement endemic in this society. People expect everything but should contribute nothing. This is not sustainable in the long run.
    Why should I pay for anything? Why should I bother working? I am a human-being ... Sure the state can look after me

    Are you talking about the patients or the staff?


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    #116
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,439 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Boombastic wrote: »
    HSE needs money so decides to charge the cancer patients.

    Have I got it wrong but I was under the impression that this charge was always there, they've just changed when they ask for it. I've seen no evidence to suggest that people will be turned away, which seems to be the entire basis for the argument against it.


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    #117
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Lucas Castroman wrote: »

    I beg your pardon...I didn't realize you were an Oncology expert. Your attitude is quite patronizing.
    Your bleeding heart views are the main reason why the country is screwed. The state is crippled bending backwards to accomodate those who live their lives recklessly.
    I am most certainly not rich but I know if I got cancer now I would happily contibute this money. As mentioned earlier, mortality rates are high so the total fee wouldn't accumulate substantially.
    There is a sense of entitlement endemic in this society. People expect everything but should contribute nothing. This is not sustainable in the long run.
    Why should I pay for anything? Why should I bother working? I am a human-being ... Sure the state can look after me

    You realise Cancer can have many causes like a virus or genetics. It's not all fags booze and junk food.


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    #118
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Boombastic in fairness if you have a problem with the hse fair enough but I dont see the point in getting personal at an individual working there.

    Ah sure, you expect that. I had a feeling that someone would actually post that when I was typing up that post. So then I thought fcuk knows what they will say when they hear I'm finished for the day.

    But don't worry little dears, I put my hours in every week, so may that will help to stop you all from getting sick.


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    #119
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Are you talking about the patients or the staff?

    Why is that? Because if it is staff he has to be right? And if it is patients he is wrong?


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    #120
    QuiteInterestin
    Registered Users Posts: 623 ✭✭✭QuiteInterestin


    Think this had been totally blown out of proportion by the Indo. People pay upfront for medication they receive from a pharmacy without questioning it, why is it such a big difference to be expected to pay upfront for medication they receive from a hospital?


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    #121
    ShiverinEskimo
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭ShiverinEskimo


    Lucas Castroman wrote: »
    I beg your pardon...I didn't realize you were an Oncology expert. Your attitude is quite patronizing.
    Your bleeding heart views are the main reason why the country is screwed. The state is crippled bending backwards to accomodate those who live their lives recklessly.
    I am most certainly not rich but I know if I got cancer now I would happily contibute this money. As mentioned earlier, mortality rates are high so the total fee wouldn't accumulate substantially.
    There is a sense of entitlement endemic in this society. People expect everything but should contribute nothing. This is not sustainable in the long run.
    Why should I pay for anything? Why should I bother working? I am a human-being ... Sure the state can look after me

    You have not one clue of what you speak about. I'm no onology expert but I do know a lot about cancer. Far more than you for sure it seems based on your naive, detached views you've spewed into the thread.

    You would happily contribute the 75 euro because you have it. In 12 months when you have no job and no money I wonder will you still be 'happy' to contribute? Oh I'm sure you'll just be over the fúcking moon.

    You're sitting here pontificating that cancer patients who can't afford it must have been living the champagne lifestyle having kids they can't afford and therefore they should suffer and die. I've never read such utter shíte in all my days on Boards.


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