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the culture of military obsession

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    #62
    MikeMichael
    Site Banned Posts: 42 ✭MikeMichael


    czx wrote: »
    Clearly quite a few people if they devote so much time to it. You should stick to RTE if it irks you so.

    There is a huge audience in the UK for that sort of ****e. The Daily Mail crowd. War is a nasty business and they would be best served by forgetting it and moving on. Let future generations who are completely detached from the event appreciate the history around it.


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    #63
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    czx wrote: »
    You should stick to RTE if it irks you so.

    Na. I just don't watch those odd-ball programmes.


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    #64
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    The BBC never shuts up about WWII.

    Their latest odd-ball WWII series is 'Wartime Farm'.

    Who gives a shit?

    It was a 'just' war where the Allies fought the good fight instead of those wars that may be unpalatable to the British public. Good, safe, old fashioned family viewing.


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    #65
    Topper Harley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Topper Harley


    MikeMichael wrote: »
    Pat Tilman was hugely pro war. He signed up with the primary intention of going to war despite having no need to do so.

    Pat Tillman - Controversial criticisms; Pat Tillman Redux
    After reports of Tillman's anti-war views became public, Ted Rall, who had previously written a comic calling Tillman a "fool" and "idiot," said that he was wrong to have assumed Tillman to be a "right wing poster child" when Tillman regarded the invasion of Iraq as illegal.


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    #66
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    You get gob****es like that in Ireland for sure, they want to go off and join the British army or the yanks, don't understand it myself. Can understand serving your own country but joining a foreign army just to go off and fight in a war you dont care about and has no meaning at home? Just to go off and kill people? Must be something wrong in the head with people like that


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    #67
    MikeMichael
    Site Banned Posts: 42 ✭MikeMichael


    Topper Harley wrote: »
    Pat Tillman - Controversial criticisms; Pat Tillman Redux

    Tilman left a life that had it all to go and fight thousands of miles away in a war. That makes him pro war. These are his actions.


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    #68
    Topper Harley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Topper Harley


    GRMA wrote: »
    You get gob****es like that in Ireland for sure, they want to go off and join the British army or the yanks, don't understand it myself. Can understand serving your own country but joining a foreign army just to go off and fight in a war you dont care about and has no meaning at home? Just to go off and kill people? Must be something wrong in the head with people like that

    Some people have very few other options in terms of jobs currently and very, very few people join an army "just to go off and kill people".


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    #69
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    GRMA wrote: »
    You get gob****es like that in Ireland for sure, they want to go off and join the British army or the yanks, don't understand it myself. Can understand serving your own country but joining a foreign army just to go off and fight in a war you dont care about and has no meaning at home? Just to go off and kill people? Must be something wrong in the head with people like that

    Guess im a gob****e then for choosing to pursue a career that i enjoy and affords me a lot of oppurunities that i could not puruse in ireland.

    Or maybe the true gob****es are the ones that look down there nose at people who are only doing what they want to do with their life.


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    #70
    Topper Harley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Topper Harley


    MikeMichael wrote: »
    Tilman left a life that had it all to go and fight thousands of miles away in a war. That makes him pro war. These are his actions.

    He joined the army after the 9/11 attacks and supported the War in Afghanistan. He was, however, very critical of the invasion of Iraq and considered it illegal. This has led many to believe that he was actually assassinated as he would likely have caused significant anti Iraq war feelings in the US.


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    #71
    MikeMichael
    Site Banned Posts: 42 ✭MikeMichael


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Guess im a gob****e then for choosing to pursue a career that i enjoy and affords me a lot of oppurunities that i could not puruse in ireland.

    Or maybe the true gob****es are the ones that look down there nose at people who are only doing what they want to do with their life.

    Keep at it buddy. You will have lots of options available to you after. You could get involved in the private security business in Africa for big money. You could operate as an assassin back home for decent cash as well. Whatever it is you will have a career and that is all the moral justification you need.


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    #72
    MikeMichael
    Site Banned Posts: 42 ✭MikeMichael


    Topper Harley wrote: »
    He joined the army after the 9/11 attacks and supported the War in Afghanistan. He was, however, very critical of the invasion of Iraq and considered it illegal. This has led many to believe that he was actually assassinated as he would likely have caused significant anti Iraq war feelings in the US.

    So he was a supporter of war and this war in particular where thousands of piss poor people that never got a chance like he did were killed by the US military.

    http://costsofwar.org/article/afghan-civilians


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    #73
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Guess im a gob****e then for choosing to pursue a career that i enjoy and affords me a lot of oppurunities that i could not puruse in ireland.

    Or maybe the true gob****es are the ones that look down there nose at people who are only doing what they want to do with their life.
    A career that involves killing for a living? For tenuous reasons? Just because "I wanna be a soldier, like"? Thats what you want to do with your life? Good man.

    Hardly a normal career like a teacher or something, your actions in an army often result in the deaths of people, many innocents. So don't play the "I'm free to follow my dream" card, not when your dream is the stuff of nightmares for others, an imperialist soldier.


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    #74
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,852 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    despite all its faults, the world relies very heavily on US intervention in world trouble spots.

    The world doesn't rely on the US in world trouble spots. The US mainly causes the trouble spots through its lust for oil and love of friendly dictators.


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    #75
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    Fratton Fred wrote: »

    despite all its faults, the Western world relies very heavily on US intervention in world trouble spots.

    FYP


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    #76
    Topper Harley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Topper Harley


    MikeMichael wrote: »
    Keep at it buddy. You will have lots of options available to you after. You could get involved in the private security business in Africa for big money. You could operate as an assassin back home for decent cash as well. Whatever it is you will have a career and that is all the moral justification you need.
    GRMA wrote: »
    A career that involves killing for a living? For tenuous reasons? Just because "I wanna be a soldier, like"? Thats what you want to do with your life? Good man.

    Hardly a normal career like a teacher or something, your actions in an army often result in the deaths of people, many innocents. So don't play the "I'm free to follow my dream" card, not when your dream is the stuff of nightmares for others, an imperialist soldier.

    Why does he need moral justification?

    And why do so many people assume that all soldiers do is kill people. :rolleyes: Many, if not most, don't kill any.
    MikeMichael wrote: »
    So he was a supporter of war and this war in particular where thousands of piss poor people that never got a chance like he did were killed by the US military.

    http://costsofwar.org/article/afghan-civilians

    There are people in Afghanistan, such as those who were terrorised by the Taliban, who support the ISAF?

    And how many of those civilian deaths are directly the result of insurgents?


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    #77
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Topper Harley wrote: »
    Why does he need moral justification?

    And why do so many people assume that all soldiers do is kill people. :rolleyes: Many, if not most, don't kill any.



    There are people in Afghanistan, such as those who were terrorised by the Taliban, who support the ISAF?

    And how many of those civilian deaths are directly the result of insurgents?
    Sorry, some just help and provide support to others to do the killing. Mea cupla.

    You don't need a moral justification to take someones life?


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    #78
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    GRMA wrote: »
    A career that involves killing for a living? For tenuous reasons? Just because "I wanna be a soldier, like"? Thats what you want to do with your life? Good man.

    Hardly a normal career like a teacher or something, your actions in an army often result in the deaths of people, many innocents. So don't play the "I'm free to follow my dream" card, not when your dream is the stuff of nightmares for others, an imperialist soldier.

    Well first of all im not infantry, im in air defence. So the likelihood of my killing civilians is effectively nil. Your view of what a soldier actually does is completely inaccurate. The way you paint it, you seem to think a soldier goes to work and spends the day walking around killing everything in sight before finishing for the evening and going home. Perhaps you could actually research what a soldier actually does before spouting such ignorant ****e as you have been.

    Secondly this career gives me free healthcare, a good pension if i stay in long enough, accommadation, a house if i get married, plenty of oppurtunities to add to my educational qualifications, oppurtunities to go to abroad and do things like skiiing, scuba diving, sailing and loads of other sports and the oppurtunity to travel to lots of countries. Am i going to get all that as a teacher? Probably not.


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    #79
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Topper Harley wrote: »
    Why does he need moral justification?

    And why do so many people assume that all soldiers do is kill people. :rolleyes: Many, if not most, don't kill any.



    There are people in Afghanistan, such as those who were terrorised by the Taliban, who support the ISAF?

    And how many of those civilian deaths are directly the result of insurgents?
    Sorry, some just help and provide support to others to do the killing. Mea cupla.

    You don't need a moral justification to take someones life?


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    #80
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Well first of all im not infantry, im in air defence. So the likelihood of my killing civilians is effectively nil. Your view of what a soldier actually does is completely inaccurate. The way you paint it, you seem to think a soldier goes to work and spends the day walking around killing everything in sight before finishing for the evening and going home. Perhaps you could actually research what a soldier actually does before spouting such ignorant ****e as you have been.

    Secondly this career gives me free healthcare, a good pension if i stay in long enough, accommadation, a house if i get married, plenty of oppurtunities to add to my educational qualifications, oppurtunities to go to abroad and do things like skiiing, scuba diving, sailing and loads of other sports and the oppurtunity to travel to lots of countries. Am i going to get all that as a teacher? Probably not.
    Youre still part of an organization which does kill people. Collective responsibility.

    Sure what you say there makes me wonder why armies even have guns! :rolleyes:

    Sure as long as you get your kicks and a pension what matter if thousands of innocents die in an unjustified illegal war?

    Talk about selfish!


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    #81
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    The world doesn't rely on the US in world trouble spots. The US mainly causes the trouble spots through its lust for oil and love of friendly dictators.

    Like Kosovo? Kuwait? Somalia? Korea?

    Look at the mess that was Southern Sudan. The US weren't that interested in Helping and so the rest of the world stood and watched for months as innocent people were killed until, eventually, a small force was put together to help out.


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    #82
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    GRMA wrote: »
    Youre still part of an organization which does kill people. Collective responsibility.

    Sure what you say there makes me wonder why armies even have guns! :rolleyes:

    Sure as long as you get your kicks and a pension what matter if thousands of innocents die in an unjustified illegal war?

    Talk about selfish!

    Funnily enough ive yet to meet anyone here who has killed these thousand and thousands you speak of. I wonder where all these crazed murderers you speak of.

    Lets face you would rather spout your ignorant drivel against anyone in the British or American armies than engage in a rational discussion.


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    #83
    MikeMichael
    Site Banned Posts: 42 ✭MikeMichael


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Like Kosovo? Kuwait? Somalia? Korea?

    Look at the mess that was Southern Sudan. The US weren't that interested in Helping and so the rest of the world stood and watched for months as innocent people were killed until, eventually, a small force was put together to help out.

    The USA like to spread the message of democracy, women's rights and religious freedom. Not in their allies like Saudi Arabia of course but in the countries that they can take something from.


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    #84
    MikeMichael
    Site Banned Posts: 42 ✭MikeMichael


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Funnily enough ive yet to meet anyone here who has killed these thousand and thousands you speak of. I wonder where all these crazed murderers you speak of.

    Lets face you would rather spout your ignorant drivel against anyone in the British or American armies than engage in a rational discussioh n.

    Hundreds of thousands dead in Iraq, millions more refugees and a state completely ruined. This is the result of the armies of British and American troops. It probably works out as at least one death per solider. Doesn't matter if the pulled the trigger. The guys loading up the F18 for an airstrike is as culpable as anyone.


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    #85
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,852 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Like Kosovo? Kuwait? Somalia? Korea?

    Look at the mess that was Southern Sudan. The US weren't that interested in Helping and so the rest of the world stood and watched for months as innocent people were killed until, eventually, a small force was put together to help out.

    Kosoco?

    Hilarious.

    Shows how little you know. What was going on in Kovoso was ethnic cleansing mostly being done by ethnic Albanians against Serb civilians and the subsequent "humanitarian intervention" was an excuse to break up what was left of Yugoslavia.

    Kuwait?

    Yeah, Iraq led by a dictator that the US armed to the teeth while he was gassing Iranian civilians to death occupied Kuwait, a dictatorship that the US supports because of its oil reserves, and the US cried "foul play" yet it continues to fund Israel which is occupying Palestinian and Syrian territory for decades. How humanitarian of them. :rolleyes: Are you even aware of the massacres carried of by the Kuwaiti dictatorship on civilians after they were returned to power by the freedom loving Yanks?

    And yeah, the people of south-east Asia loved America's intervention over there. All those chemical weapons dropped on civilians and all the carpet bombings. Really helped sort out that "trouble spot" and make everyone's lives better.

    Nicaragua? Good one, arming and training terrorists to overthrow a democratically elected government. Number of dead:30,000.

    The original 9/11. Overthrowing the democratically elected government of Chile.


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    #86
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    GRMA wrote: »
    Hardly a normal career like a teacher or.

    Don't underestimate the power of a teacher, if reasoned out from your point, teachers are responsible for billions of deaths.


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    #87
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    The Territorial Army should be banned from advertising on British television and sponsoring programmes. Cigarette advertising is banned because it's bad for your health but telling people they should fight in a war is viewed as being perfectly acceptable.

    A few years ago they sponsored Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. They were hoping that gullible teenagers would think if they joined the army the people they would have to shoot would be evil or emotionless, like the robots in Terminator.


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    #88
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »
    Why is army deafness in quotation marks?

    I'd be shocked if that was the amount.

    Even still. The reason that there were so many claims is because the government for years refused to provide adequate hearing protection to soldiers. The fact of the matter is exposure to high decibels from weapons and explosives damages ears without protection. Soldiers tried for years to get the army to provide them with ear defenders. Often they improvised by shoving cotton wool in their ears, or purchasing their own. However more often than not they'd be made remove them.

    It was only after people sued the government for causing their deafness through lack of proper equipment that they finally got their act together and started providing soldiers with the equipment they needed. Had they done that from the start then they wouldn't have had to compensate people for costing them their hearing.


    irishhealth.com

    ARMY DEAFNESS CLAIMS CONTINUE
    by Deborah Condon
    20/08/2004

    "Over €276 million has now been paid out in compensation to soldiers claiming to have suffered hearing loss as a result of serving in the armed forces, figures from the Department of Defence have shown"



    Independent.ie

    ARMY DEAFNESS SAGE FINALLY NEARS AN END
    by John Drennan
    24/01/2010

    "Twenty years after it first emerged, the end of the Army deafness scheme saga is almost in sight after costing taxpayers £321 million--a third of which went to solicitors and barristers"


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    #89
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    gbee wrote: »
    Don't underestimate the power of a teacher, if reasoned out from your point, teachers are responsible for billions of deaths.

    Yup, Pol Pot was a teacher. Lovely man.


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    #90
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,852 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    gobnaitolunacy wrote: »
    Yup, Pol Pot was a teacher. Lovely man.

    Enda Kenny too.

    Coincidence? I think not.


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    #91
    Local-womanizer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Local-womanizer


    9959 wrote: »


    irishhealth.com

    ARMY DEAFNESS CLAIMS CONTINUE
    by Deborah Condon
    20/08/2004

    "Over €276 million has now been paid out in compensation to soldiers claiming to have suffered hearing loss as a result of serving in the armed forces, figures from the Department of Defence have shown"



    Independent.ie

    ARMY DEAFNESS SAGE FINALLY NEARS AN END
    by John Drennan
    24/01/2010

    "Twenty years after it first emerged, the end of the Army deafness scheme saga is almost in sight after costing taxpayers £321 million--a third of which went to solicitors and barristers"

    You fail to acknowledge the total lack of care shown by the government towards soldiers well being back then.

    The army deafness claims was totally avoidable, if the DoD had any cop on.


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