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Roisin Shortall resigns as junior minister

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13

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    #62
    Conmaicne Mara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    She could have got more done in Government than outside of it. I don't see the point of her resignation, or the previous spat. If she thought Reilly was mortally wounded then she could bide her time, do her work, and carry on after him. Short sighted thinking.


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    #63
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Conmaicne Mara wrote: »
    She could have got more done in Government than outside of it. I don't see the point of her resignation, or the previous spat. If she thought Reilly was mortally wounded then she could bide her time, do her work, and carry on after him. Short sighted thinking.

    Or perhaps she thought that Reilly was going to be allowed to carry on as is and couldn't in all conscience continue as part of our current Fianna Fáil lite government?


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    #64
    Conmaicne Mara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    Perhaps she did, but it amounts to the same thing, the position she had gave her better ability to do justice to her principals then the position she now occupies. Politics is politics, no one ever said it was easy, fair, or nice. Why is she even there if she's just content to sit on opposition benches forever.


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    #65
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Conmaicne Mara wrote: »
    Perhaps she did, but it amounts to the same thing, the position she had gave her better ability to do justice to her principals then the position she now occupies. Politics is politics, no one ever said it was easy, fair, or nice. Why is she even there if she's just content to sit on opposition benches forever.

    Can't Martin, O Dea etc make the same argument for why they remained part of Cowan's government?


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    #66
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    touts wrote: »
    I never understood why Fine Gael were so proud of having "consequences" for corruption in their party. It's like the farmer being so proud of the new one way locking mechanism he just fitted to the stable door to prevent the horse getting back in but leaves it free to get out.
    Having consequences for corruption don't have any preventive effect at all?


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    #67
    Belfast
    Registered Users Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Belfast


    Good start.
    Now how do we get there rest of them to resign?


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    #68
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,464 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Belfast wrote: »
    Good start.
    Now how do we get there rest of the to resign?

    Reilly will be next in line, should be gone by Christmas. No Labour junior minister will be able to work with him. The growing budgetary crisis within the HSE will do him no favours either - it will become clearly evident in the run up to budget day that he has managed to let the HSE go bankrupt due to his inaction all year.


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    #69
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    dvpower wrote: »
    Nobody forced her to resign - she made that decision herself.

    She lost one battle (I think she was right btw and Reilly was wrong) and decided to throw her toys out of the pram - she couldn't even get the backing of her own party. She wouldn't have lasted the full term.
    I think that's over simplifying the issue. Standing up against possible corruption which nobody in either party seems in too much of a hurry to investigate is a damn good reason to take a stand. What other option had she? Don't know her, but in this instance it was more of a draw the line protest than a tantrum to be fair.


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    #70
    Conmaicne Mara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Can't Martin, O Dea etc make the same argument for why they remained part of Cowan's government?

    I wouldn't have thought so, that Govt was openly disintegrating, this one isn't.


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    #71
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Reilly will be next in line, should be gone by Christmas. No Labour junior minister will be able to work with him. The growing budgetary crisis within the HSE will do him no favours either - it will become clearly evident in the run up to budget day that he has managed to let the HSE go bankrupt due to his inaction all year.

    It's like the good old FFail days again, the guy will need be caught eating babies on live television before Kenny gets rid. Labour need re-grow a pair.


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    #72
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,304 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Reilly will be next in line, should be gone by Christmas. No Labour junior minister will be able to work with him. The growing budgetary crisis within the HSE will do him no favours either - it will become clearly evident in the run up to budget day that he has managed to let the HSE go bankrupt due to his inaction all year.

    guarantee he wont take the blame, he'll just blame hospitals/hse for overuns and not tha fact that serviices are been centralized without the funding/organization to support extra patients or that he needs to figure out what is spent where and work out what can be cut / reformed with as little effect on front line services as possibe, if that means counting paperclips so be it.

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #73
    recipio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭recipio


    I'd say most people outside the pale won't give a toss.
    Resigning over a list of ( possible ) Primary care centres when injured children are being turned away from A/E units. ? Give me a break.


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    #74
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Conmaicne Mara wrote: »
    I wouldn't have thought so, that Govt was openly disintegrating, this one isn't.

    Was it?
    Isn't it?


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    #75
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,464 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    ednwireland wrote: »
    guarantee he wont take the blame, he'll just blame hospitals/hse for overuns and not tha fact that serviices are been centralized without the funding/organization to support extra patients or that he needs to figure out what is spent where and work out what can be cut / reformed with as little effect on front line services as possibe, if that means counting paperclips so be it.

    Agreed, he will try and pass the buck for as long as is possible - and every time he does so he sacks (or forces the resignation of someone) within the HSE in the process. However it will only be a matter of time before people start to realise that it is Reilly himself who is the problem, and not those who he is interacting with. This week is a good example of that, we have seen Shorthall having to vacate her position because it is impossible to work with Reilly. Only a mere few weeks ago Cathal Magee also stepped down for similar reasons - although Reilly continues to pass the buck and deny any wrong doing on his behalf.

    When you couple the above with the disastrous finances within the HSE alongside his own personal financial situation (which we have not heard the end of!) it spells a rough ride ahead for Reilly. It will not be all that long before he will be too much baggage for Kenny to carry.
    recipio wrote: »
    Resigning over a list of ( possible ) Primary care centres when injured children are being turned away from A/E units. ? Give me a break.

    If he is to resign it will not be as a result of one minor discrepancy - rather it will be due to his litany of failures within the HSE, his inability to work with others alongside his own dubious financial position. He is a walking disaster for the coalition.


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    #76
    recipio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭recipio


    If he is to resign it will not be as a result of one minor discrepancy - rather it will be due to his litany of failures within the HSE, his inability to work with others alongside his own dubious financial position. He is a walking disaster for the coalition.[/QUOTE]

    Eh........... I meant Roisin Shorthall resigning. I'm afraid this coalition is drifting away from the people it serves without knowing it. Its time for a radical overhaul but no one has the guts to do it.


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    #77
    hallelujajordan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    Skrynesaver wrote: »
    Is anybody else finding it harder to spot the difference between FG and FF as time goes on? .

    Was there ever a difference ? I have always felt that politically FF and FG were closer to each other than any other two parties in Ireland. . Ever since the decline of the PDs the country has been run by coalitions who are too far apart politically to be effective .. Is it not time for a FF-FG coalition and for the country to have a clear choice between left and centre-right ?

    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    If he is to resign it will not be as a result of one minor discrepancy - rather it will be due to his litany of failures within the HSE, his inability to work with others alongside his own dubious financial position. He is a walking disaster for the coalition.

    Reilly secured his long term future during the 2010 FG leadership heave when he stood by Enda. . Kenny will never ask him to resign and unfortunately Reilly is too arrogant to recognise himself that he should go . .

    I honestly think Enda would allow the government to collapse before he asks Reilly to stand down ..


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    #78
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,464 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    hallelujajordan wrote: »

    Reilly secured his long term future during the 2010 FG leadership heave when he stood by Enda. . Kenny will never ask him to resign and unfortunately Reilly is too arrogant to recognise himself that he should go . .

    I honestly think Enda would allow the government to collapse before he asks Reilly to stand down ..

    There will come a time when having Reilly in cabinet will be a threat to the Kenny's leadership, and when that day comes he will drop him like a stone to save his own skin.


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    #79
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Shea O'Meara wrote: »
    I think that's over simplifying the issue. Standing up against possible corruption which nobody in either party seems in too much of a hurry to investigate is a damn good reason to take a stand. What other option had she? Don't know her, but in this instance it was more of a draw the line protest than a tantrum to be fair.
    I think that's over egging it.
    If she resigned shouting about corruption from the rooftops I'd buy it, but she didn't and she won't.


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    #80
    hallelujajordan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    There will come a time when having Reilly in cabinet will be a threat to the Kenny's leadership, and when that day comes he will drop him like a stone to save his own skin.

    If Kenny loses Reilly, then he will already have lost his leadership . .

    I wonder what the odds are on Richard Bruton being the next Taoiseach ?


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    #81
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    recipio wrote: »
    I'd say most people outside the pale won't give a toss.
    Resigning over a list of ( possible ) Primary care centres when injured children are being turned away from A/E units. ? Give me a break.

    You've missed the point spectacularly.

    A good number of the cases that present at an A&E can be dealt with at a primary care centre.

    So, a fair ranking of the places that really needed a primary care centre is very important when it comes to relieving pressure from A&Es.

    And more importantly, if we see this type of parish pump politics from Reilly in this instance (where we happen to have the ranking list - that never happens), where else have his self-interested fingers been poking?

    The man has to go.


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    #82
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,019 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    recipio wrote: »
    I'd say most people outside the pale won't give a toss.
    Resigning over a list of ( possible ) Primary care centres when injured children are being turned away from A/E units. ? Give me a break.

    Right, because inside 'the Pale' we have gold plated care, and five second waiting lists.
    I'm thoroughly sick of this sort of nonsense, attempting to turn every issue into Dublin vs the rest.
    Does Tallaght hospital ring any bells with you?

    Serious risks remain at Tallaght hospital - HIQA

    HIQA's Tallaght Hospital report critical of State and former hospital board

    Tallaght Hospital confirms bed closures

    for starters.

    There is no future for Boards as long as it stays on the complete toss that is the Vanilla "platform", we've given those Canadian twats far more chances than they deserve.



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    #83
    Wider Road
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Wider Road


    Vinny has O'Reilly on his show tonight!
    Should be interesting.


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    #84
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,019 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    First ministerial resignation live on TV???











    (hardly)

    There is no future for Boards as long as it stays on the complete toss that is the Vanilla "platform", we've given those Canadian twats far more chances than they deserve.



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    #85
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,019 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    edanto wrote: »
    (where we happen to have the ranking list - that never happens)

    Selective leaking FTW.

    There is no future for Boards as long as it stays on the complete toss that is the Vanilla "platform", we've given those Canadian twats far more chances than they deserve.



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    #86
    Conmaicne Mara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Was it?
    Isn't it?

    :rolleyes: meaning it's not that long ago, you should remember.
    :rolleyes: meaning, have you a crystal ball?


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    #87
    Wider Road
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Wider Road


    Wider Road wrote: »
    Vinny has O'Reilly on his show tonight!
    Should be interesting.


    I've seen an ad for the V Browne show & no mention of Reilly being on it! Sorry in advance but I got a text telling me he'd be on Vincents show at 11.


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    #88
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    James Reilly gave his explanation to the Dail last night about adding primary care centres to Shortall's list. Basically saying that her criteria were different from an earlier set and triple weighted the social deprivation criterion meaning some sites were bumped off the list. But
    This is not borne out, however, by documents obtained by The Irish Times under Freedom of Information legislation last week. They show that Balbriggan ranked 44th and Swords 127th in a draft list compiled last June – before Ms Shortall ordered officials to increase the weighting attached to deprivation.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0928/1224324536458.html

    On radio this morning it was suggested that Reilly was confusing lists or that he meant to be referring to a HSE list that was drawn up in 2007 that nobody has seen yet. He needs to clarify his reasoning and ministers shouldn't be jumping in behind him until he does.

    Whatever about his personality issues and clashes with his juniors, Reilly has expertise in the area and I think he can make in roads into health reform and universal care - given time. Shortalls resignation and Cathal Magees leaving the HSE are very different events. But while personality clashes are minor, stroke politics is not something to be ignored for the sake of expertise or progress.


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    #89
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    That sounds like he lied to, or certainly misled, the Dáil. Doesn't he win a permanent pension for that? Oh, wait, he's already got one.


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    #90
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    Why would Reilly want a GP practice in his area to benefit. Voters wouldn't care too much at not having a primary care centre (they are a load of nonsense really, but that is a separate issue). However, if a primary care centre was opened then that would be in competition with Reillys practice which would loose business.

    Shorthall appears to have made a bit of an arse of deciding on the best areas. All she did was look at the most deprived areas. She doesn't seem to have used any thought as to how the centres would be rolled out and how they could improve healthcare. It sounds like a civil servant told her what to put in the report as her report has HSE/Health Board incompetence all over it. Producing reports that cannot be implemented.

    We should be glad she is gone.


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    #91
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    OMD wrote: »
    Voters wouldn't care too much at not having a primary care centre.
    I'm a voter and I do care.

    If I perceive that my area is getting screwed out of a Primary Care centre that it would otherwise have got, I care even more.


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