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STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭The Bull


    Hello Stove Fan and all here.

    I am looking for some help from u Stovefan or feedback from people who have stoves fitted in there homes ie price and how efficient they find them. There is a number of different models on the market and without feedback from people that have them in there homes it is hard to judge which is the best set up for our house. We have a open fire in our house and was thinking of fitting a solid fuel stove (Turf) which would provide heat for the house. The following is a list of the rads we have in the house:

    Downstairs
    Utility 1 x 600 double rad
    Hall 2 x 1200 single rads
    Bedrooms: 2 x 1600 singles rads
    En suite: 1 x 1000 single rad
    Bathroom: 1 x Towel rad and 1 x 1000 double rad
    Kitchen: 1 x 1400 Double rad
    Dining: 1 x 2000 Double rad
    Living room 2 x 1400 single rads This is the room the stove is going so these rads will prob not be needed.

    Upstairs

    Hall Landing 1 x 1200 Double rad
    Bedrooms 3 x 1200 double rads
    Bathrooms 2 x Towel rads

    Ideally we are looking for some help as to what sort of stove would be suitable for our setup. I know there are stoves that can go up to 25 to 30 KW but some of these seem very big. I would like a nice stove that doesn't take a truckload of turf/coal each evening to heat the downstairs at least. We are currently not using the upstairs area so we could get away with a lower output stove. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    The Bull wrote: »
    Hello Stove Fan and all here.

    I am looking for some help from u Stovefan or feedback from people who have stoves fitted in there homes ie price and how efficient they find them. There is a number of different models on the market and without feedback from people that have them in there homes it is hard to judge which is the best set up for our house. We have a open fire in our house and was thinking of fitting a solid fuel stove (Turf) which would provide heat for the house. The following is a list of the rads we have in the house:

    Downstairs
    Utility 1 x 600 double rad
    Hall 2 x 1200 single rads
    Bedrooms: 2 x 1600 singles rads
    En suite: 1 x 1000 single rad
    Bathroom: 1 x Towel rad and 1 x 1000 double rad
    Kitchen: 1 x 1400 Double rad
    Dining: 1 x 2000 Double rad
    Living room 2 x 1400 single rads This is the room the stove is going so these rads will prob not be needed.

    Upstairs

    Hall Landing 1 x 1200 Double rad
    Bedrooms 3 x 1200 double rads
    Bathrooms 2 x Towel rads

    Ideally we are looking for some help as to what sort of stove would be suitable for our setup. I know there are stoves that can go up to 25 to 30 KW but some of these seem very big. I would like a nice stove that doesn't take a truckload of turf/coal each evening to heat the downstairs at least. We are currently not using the upstairs area so we could get away with a lower output stove. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance

    Hi, based on your 15 rads if I have that right plus towel rads, your looking for a stove with a 22kw boiler to heat upstairs and downstairs and to heat the hot water.

    If you just heat the downstairs rads you need a stove with a rated boiler output of 12-13kw to include 2-3kw for domestic hot water.

    The upstairs zone if I'm right comprises 4 rads and two towel rads?

    If this is the case the upstairs rad output etc is 9kw.

    I take it your living room isn't huge as it is heated by the two rads of around 3kw.

    You will really struggle to find a stove with a low heat output to the room and high boiler output.

    What is the room size where the stove is going and any doors leading off to other rooms? What is insulation like and age of house?

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭cavan4sam


    hi stovefan
    thanks for all your information i'm putting in a stove at the minute and i'm torn between blacksmith forge and stanley erin , what other stoves would you reccomend similar size and money , also i'm lookin to source some slate for my hearth approx 54x24 and some ideas how to fit it ,
    thanks in advance


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    cavan4sam wrote: »
    hi stovefan
    thanks for all your information i'm putting in a stove at the minute and i'm torn between blacksmith forge and stanley erin , what other stoves would you reccomend similar size and money , also i'm lookin to source some slate for my hearth approx 54x24 and some ideas how to fit it ,
    thanks in advance

    Hi, to be honest out of the two it would be stanley.

    Are these boiler or non boiler stoves? If so how many rads/ What is your room size where the stove is going and insulation levels? Do you have double doors to other rooms?
    How much are these stoves?
    No idea on the slate:( I used brick in ours:)

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭cavan4sam


    i have 18 rads but i'm only heating 10 with it as i've them zoned , its a well insulated timber frame house 4 yrs old ,room is 4.5 x 4.5 2.4m ceilings , double doors to another room 4.5x8
    i think the blacksmith is 1450 and the stanley is 1600
    also toying with idea of triple coil cylinder for future solar


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    cavan4sam wrote: »
    i have 18 rads but i'm only heating 10 with it as i've them zoned , its a well insulated timber frame house 4 yrs old ,room is 4.5 x 4.5 2.4m ceilings , double doors to another room 4.5x8
    i think the blacksmith is 1450 and the stanley is 1600
    also toying with idea of triple coil cylinder for future solar

    It really depends on the size of the rads and if doubles or singles but your smaller room needs about 3.5kw and the larger room around 6kw.

    Myself I would go for a boiler stove with no more than 6kw room heat.
    You should though calculate the radiator outputs as the stoves boiler mentioned may be too small.
    http://www.traderadiators.com/acatalog/Compact_Radiators.html

    Something like this.
    http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb12-he.html

    The forge produces 6kw to room:) and 15kw to water.
    http://www.blacksmithstoves.ie/product-forge.html


    The erin produces 6kw to room 13.2kw to water.
    http://www.waterfordstanley.com/stanley-stoves/room-heat-central-heating/solid-fuel/erin-stove.aspx

    They are both very evenly matched. Just make sure the boiler is large enough to heat all 10 rads.

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭The Bull


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Hi, based on your 15 rads if I have that right plus towel rads, your looking for a stove with a 22kw boiler to heat upstairs and downstairs and to heat the hot water.

    If you just heat the downstairs rads you need a stove with a rated boiler output of 12-13kw to include 2-3kw for domestic hot water.

    The upstairs zone if I'm right comprises 4 rads and two towel rads?

    If this is the case the upstairs rad output etc is 9kw.

    I take it your living room isn't huge as it is heated by the two rads of around 3kw.

    You will really struggle to find a stove with a low heat output to the room and high boiler output.

    What is the room size where the stove is going and any doors leading off to other rooms? What is insulation like and age of house?

    Stove Fan:)

    Hi Stove fan the house is insulated ok and is about 4 years old. The Living room will have the stove and is 5.1m x 4.8m and has a door off the hall and another door off to the Dining area which is open plan along with the kitchen.

    I have looked at two options at the min. One is the

    Stratford EB16HE which has 13 kw to water and 2.5-8kw to room.Cost 1775

    the other is

    Olymberyl Aidan Boiler Stove 18kw i seen for sale on Done deal. http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/heating/3557169

    What would your opinion be on the Aidan 18kw ? and have u come across it before. The price range is alot better at 1100 euro compared to the stratford?

    Also whats ur thoughts on the Stratford 16kw or maybe you could recommend other options?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭cavan4sam


    thanks stove fan i've a price for stanley erin in enamel for 1590 so leaning towards it , would love to be able to switch between upstairs and downstairs as with oil but plumber says its not possible as its a pressurized system and i dont know enough about it , but the stanley erin will heat upstairs no problem


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    cavan4sam wrote: »
    thanks stove fan i've a price for stanley erin in enamel for 1590 so leaning towards it , would love to be able to switch between upstairs and downstairs as with oil but plumber says its not possible as its a pressurized system and i dont know enough about it , but the stanley erin will heat upstairs no problem

    Hi, I didn't know it's a pressurised system:eek:. This makes a huge difference to installing a boiler stove safely into the heating system. Solid fuel stoves can potentially explode due to water expanding and turning to super heated steam especially when installed to a sealed system where the massive expansion has nowhere to go. This is why standard solid fuel boiler manufacturers insist on open vented for safety as any steam/ pressure in the system is released through the feed and expansion tank. This tank allows any water lost to feed cold water to the boiler and cools the system down.

    In the installation manual it says on page 10 under plumbing it must be installed to an open vent system ie open to atmosphere not sealed/pressurised system.
    http://www.waterfordstanley.com/media/200832/erinboilermanual.pdf
    I would phone stanleys technical number and see if what the plumber is planning to do is safe. If they say it's ok then fine, but personally most manufacturers insist on being an open vent system with cold feed and vent tank in the loft.
    If you want to install a stove the only options are an open vented thermal store. This may well involve expensive replumbing. Or buy a stove that is suitable to install into pressurised systems. These have a secondary coil inside the boiler which flows cold water through to cool the boiling water in the boiler.
    Something like this.
    http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Woodfire-F12-boiler-stove.html
    http://www.broseleyfires.com/Link-Up-Systems.html
    http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Woodfire-12i-boiler-stove.html

    When installing a boiler stove it must be failsafe even in an overheat situation and open vented unless designed for pressurised systems.
    I personally would get other plumbers in too look. You may be able to convert your existing oil boiler to open vented. Again phoning the manufacturers technical line may provide the answer.
    Personally though the easiest and cheapest/ safest option is to install a non boiler stove:)

    Stove Fan:)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭cavan4sam


    thanks again , i'm not sure what would be involved in changing it to an unpressurised system , its a condensing oil burner i have as oil source, i'll get another plumber to have a look ,


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 channel99


    Found this site on the web. Prices look very good. Spoke to them today and they were very helpful. They say they have supplied quite a few stoves to Ireland.

    I am looking for a reference.

    Kind regards


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    cavan4sam wrote: »
    thanks again , i'm not sure what would be involved in changing it to an unpressurised system , its a condensing oil burner i have as oil source, i'll get another plumber to have a look ,

    It depends on the boiler and safety systems on the boiler for low water cut out.

    If it's possible it's adding a cold feed and expansion tank higher than the highest radiators and then piping a feed pipe and vent pipe for the boiler.

    It's something another plumber could look into for you, by phoning the boiler manufacturers:)

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    channel99 wrote: »
    Found this site on the web. Prices look very good. Spoke to them today and they were very helpful. They say they have supplied quite a few stoves to Ireland.

    I am looking for a reference.

    Kind regards

    Sorry can't help as have never used that company:(

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭cavan4sam


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    It depends on the boiler and safety systems on the boiler for low water cut out.

    If it's possible it's adding a cold feed and expansion tank higher than the highest radiators and then piping a feed pipe and vent pipe for the boiler.

    It's something another plumber could look into for you, by phoning the boiler manufacturers:)

    Stove Fan:)

    he did say something about a small cold water tank in the attic alright i must get him back to explain it in lay mans terms next time


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭cavan4sam


    just saw the stanley lismore today in a showroom , is it same spec as erin because i'm leaning towards it , its a nicer looking stove


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25 vwpolo


    Hi,
    I'm thinking of getting the Stockton 3 which will be suitable for our small room, I have a couple of questions about installation. I know the fireback needs to be removed and the wall behind it replastered & painted, but does the fireplace have to be taken off to install it? I thought the beauty of it was that it's so small it slots into a small fireplace (see pic). I've been given a quote of Eur400+ for installation which seems excessive - pipes were quoted as 50 extra to the Eur250 labour cost, then another 100 for a piece of granite for it to sit on (fair enough) the + bit is unknown yet and will be for plastering. Lining the chimney was also mentioned as was the question does our fireplace have steel in it?! My understanding is that you only line a chimney if you are getting an inset stove & steel is not a good material to have near heat, so fireplaces are made of block work. Hopefully the above quote is reasonable so we can use this installer but would be grateful of some advice from those with experience in this!
    thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 mrscazlindsay


    Hello Stove Fan

    not really a stove question as such, more of a fireplace one.... we've just got a 5kw stove and my husband is widening the fireplace, want to get as much of that part done before I get someone in to install the flue and stove properly....
    my question is, I would like to tile the inside walls and the floor/hearth of the fireplace, I would assume normal wall tiles would crack with the heat, we thought of using stone tiles like a dark coloured brick-shape or mosaic travertine but I just don't know what kind of tiles would definitely be suitable for such a use, either the heat or the weight of the stove!!
    Can you advise?!?

    Thanks a million :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    vwpolo wrote: »
    Hi,
    I'm thinking of getting the Stockton 3 which will be suitable for our small room, I have a couple of questions about installation. I know the fireback needs to be removed and the wall behind it replastered & painted, but does the fireplace have to be taken off to install it? I thought the beauty of it was that it's so small it slots into a small fireplace (see pic). I've been given a quote of Eur400+ for installation which seems excessive - pipes were quoted as 50 extra to the Eur250 labour cost, then another 100 for a piece of granite for it to sit on (fair enough) the + bit is unknown yet and will be for plastering. Lining the chimney was also mentioned as was the question does our fireplace have steel in it?! My understanding is that you only line a chimney if you are getting an inset stove & steel is not a good material to have near heat, so fireplaces are made of block work. Hopefully the above quote is reasonable so we can use this installer but would be grateful of some advice from those with experience in this!
    thanks.

    Hi, are you really wanting a freestanding stove installed in a rather tight opening? It would be less work to install one of these:).
    http://www.aarrowfires.com/our-range-of-stoves/signature-range/signature-inset.html

    http://www.aarrowfires.com/our-range-of-stoves/ecoburn-range/ecoburn-inset.html
    http://www.stovax.com/builtintothewallfires/builtinfires/built_in_wood__multi_fuel/riva_40_multi_fuel_fire.aspx

    http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/4kwinsetfireview.ashx

    The manufacturers state it's fine to install the stockton 3 but it may be better and easier to buy an inset stove?
    http://www.stovax.com/stoves/traditionalstoves/wood__multi_fuel_stoves/stockton_stoves/stockton_3_stove.aspx

    What the installer will do is remove the fireback, Line the sides, ie heat proof plaster,tile, vermiculite fireboard etc. The new piece of marble will be laid for the stove to sit on.
    The stove will be connected to the chimney. Depending on how old your house is this could be fully lining the chimney with a flexible liner or if your house has a clay lined chimney using a clay liner adapter to join the stoves flue to the existing clay liner.

    It is not just inset stoves that may need to have the chimney lined it's both inset and freestanding depending on the age, construction and soundness of the existing chimney. The installer should test the chimney with a smoke pellet after preheating the chimney to make sure smoke does not leak upstairs and into any adjoining cupboards/loft. He will then thoroughly sweep the chimney before installing the stove.
    A fully lined chimney is the better job though.

    What I would do is ask the installer for a full detailed quote with the breakdown of the costs and whats involved. This way there are no surprises:)
    Steel shouldn't be needed and there should only be a concrete former or lintel, the lintel having some steel in.

    The inset stove is easiest to install once the chimney has been tested, as it just slots in, fixed and sometimes backfilled with vermiculite depending on manufacturer.

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Hello Stove Fan

    not really a stove question as such, more of a fireplace one.... we've just got a 5kw stove and my husband is widening the fireplace, want to get as much of that part done before I get someone in to install the flue and stove properly....
    my question is, I would like to tile the inside walls and the floor/hearth of the fireplace, I would assume normal wall tiles would crack with the heat, we thought of using stone tiles like a dark coloured brick-shape or mosaic travertine but I just don't know what kind of tiles would definitely be suitable for such a use, either the heat or the weight of the stove!!
    Can you advise?!?

    Thanks a million :D

    To be honest I'm not sure myself:( I would ask the shop or tile manufacturer if they are heatproof. I personally would imagine they would be fine especially if fired in a kiln.

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭guinness queen


    Hi Stove Fan,
    As poster earlier, I have now installed the Nestor Martin H23 stove, an enormously expensive stove, however mine was a demo model and i got it for half price. I do not think I would buy this model again. I can now agree with all of the negative comments on 'What stove'.com. Of course this is after the event, there were many positive comments also it has to be said, and I wish I could be as happy. I did read a couple of negatives in advance. I am finding it very hard going. It takes ages to really get a good fire going, the glass blackens very quickly, and can even go out by times. I have followed the instructions to the letter but it is still not what I feel it should be. I was quite successful with it a few times, perhaps its a draught problem. I used a 904/904 liner, the chimney was filled after insertion of liner. As far as I can see all was done properly. there is a bend in the chimney, would this account for some of the problems. I have used wood, pehaps the wood blocks are too big. I have used smokeless fuel and thats not so bad. I will try anthercite soon and perhaps that will work better. When I open door to refuel then I get a lot of smoke. I feel it is a bit of a waste of money. Could not even get a reply from retailer. I did contact Euroheat in England and they were so helpful, sent me the manuals etc. I also had several e mails they did all they could to help, even though I purchased in ireland.
    Is there anyone out there who has this stove perhaps could give me some advice. I would consider selling it but the thought of all that work installing it, the flue height having to be exactly the same etc. really puts me off.
    The heat from it when I manage to get it right is very good indeed, and it looks great. Any help would be appreciated.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Hi Stove Fan,
    As poster earlier, I have now installed the Nestor Martin H23 stove, an enormously expensive stove, however mine was a demo model and i got it for half price. I do not think I would buy this model again. I can now agree with all of the negative comments on 'What stove'.com. Of course this is after the event, there were many positive comments also it has to be said, and I wish I could be as happy. I did read a couple of negatives in advance. I am finding it very hard going. It takes ages to really get a good fire going, the glass blackens very quickly, and can even go out by times. I have followed the instructions to the letter but it is still not what I feel it should be. I was quite successful with it a few times, perhaps its a draught problem. I used a 904/904 liner, the chimney was filled after insertion of liner. As far as I can see all was done properly. there is a bend in the chimney, would this account for some of the problems. I have used wood, pehaps the wood blocks are too big. I have used smokeless fuel and thats not so bad. I will try anthercite soon and perhaps that will work better. When I open door to refuel then I get a lot of smoke. I feel it is a bit of a waste of money. Could not even get a reply from retailer. I did contact Euroheat in England and they were so helpful, sent me the manuals etc. I also had several e mails they did all they could to help, even though I purchased in ireland.
    Is there anyone out there who has this stove perhaps could give me some advice. I would consider selling it but the thought of all that work installing it, the flue height having to be exactly the same etc. really puts me off.
    The heat from it when I manage to get it right is very good indeed, and it looks great. Any help would be appreciated.

    I'm so sorry to hear of your dissapointment in this stove:(, unfortunately the time taken to get going seems to be a common problem.

    I would be surprised if it was your lined chimney causing problems even if it wasn't backfilled with vermiculite. It's quite normal to have bends in the flue to clear fireplaces upstairs etc.
    Does it vary with different wood suppliers? Is the wood well dry, could you try a friends/relatives wood?
    Is it a 7kw stove? Is your house exceptionaly airtight?
    Does the smoke dissapear when the external door/window is opened? Is the baffle plate installed correctly? This should be shown in the manual.
    How high is the chimney, a photo would help:)

    Unfortunately can't think of anything else:(
    The stove could be replaced simply, it would only need the black fluepipe reducing or a longer piece installed. The main thing is the new stove has the same size flue pipe/outlet as the NM.
    If you do go for another consider Woodwarm, Clearview, Morso, Charnwood.

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 vwpolo


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Hi, are you really wanting a freestanding stove installed in a rather tight opening? It would be less work to install one of these:).
    http://www.aarrowfires.com/our-range-of-stoves/signature-range/signature-inset.html

    http://www.aarrowfires.com/our-range-of-stoves/ecoburn-range/ecoburn-inset.html
    http://www.stovax.com/builtintothewallfires/builtinfires/built_in_wood__multi_fuel/riva_40_multi_fuel_fire.aspx

    http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/4kwinsetfireview.ashx

    The manufacturers state it's fine to install the stockton 3 but it may be better and easier to buy an inset stove?
    http://www.stovax.com/stoves/traditionalstoves/wood__multi_fuel_stoves/stockton_stoves/stockton_3_stove.aspx

    What the installer will do is remove the fireback, Line the sides, ie heat proof plaster,tile, vermiculite fireboard etc. The new piece of marble will be laid for the stove to sit on.
    The stove will be connected to the chimney. Depending on how old your house is this could be fully lining the chimney with a flexible liner or if your house has a clay lined chimney using a clay liner adapter to join the stoves flue to the existing clay liner.

    It is not just inset stoves that may need to have the chimney lined it's both inset and freestanding depending on the age, construction and soundness of the existing chimney. The installer should test the chimney with a smoke pellet after preheating the chimney to make sure smoke does not leak upstairs and into any adjoining cupboards/loft. He will then thoroughly sweep the chimney before installing the stove.
    A fully lined chimney is the better job though.

    What I would do is ask the installer for a full detailed quote with the breakdown of the costs and whats involved. This way there are no surprises:)
    Steel shouldn't be needed and there should only be a concrete former or lintel, the lintel having some steel in.

    The inset stove is easiest to install once the chimney has been tested, as it just slots in, fixed and sometimes backfilled with vermiculite depending on manufacturer.

    Stove Fan:)

    Thanks Stove Fan for such a detailed response! We are on a strict budget which is why we're going for the Stockton 3. We planned on an inset stove initially but I've been told the installation would be really expensive and the inset stoves in particular are difficult to install & only as good as the quality of installation [I'm in Galway and can't get any recommendation for someone to do inset stoves]. Also the lining material cost Eur30 per metre and our chimney is the height of 3 stories. So the Stockton seemed like the cheaper but still as effective option. The house is less than ten years old so from what you say no liner should be needed unless it was badly constructed. I've had it swept already.

    Just one specific question - I know the fireback is taken out to install the stove, but does the mantel & surround come off and get put back on also?

    Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭guinness queen


    Morning Stove Fan,
    Thanks for your prompt reply, I certainly would consider one of the models you recommended if and when I change this model.
    We put in an 8 or 9 meter flu, we are down in a bit of a dip, perhaps that has a bearing on things, we never had a good open fire in a very heavy frost, but so far we have not had that problem yet, and that worries me.
    I shall check what happens when doors etc are open later on. The house is definitely not airtight, but the stove seems to be. If I opened up the ash box it would take off like a grand prix driver. One is specifically instructed not to do this. The lever marked a - b
    is for air direction. The lever is in the middle when starting the fire and then when it gets going back to A. the middle is also for smokeless fuel, and B is for coal. Sometimes I put the lever down to B to give it a bit of a boost, that works. The biggest problem seems to be when moving from the starting position (between A & B) back to A. WEll I shall just have to put up with it, and I guess take note of exactly the best way to keep it going. I have no problem starting it, it goes off in a blaze, the problem is when the lever goes back to the A position. I am not sure what would happen to the stove if it remained in the middle position. Thanks anyway, you are always most helpful to everyone, and have an abundance of patience. I shall let u know about the position when doors are open.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭kingdom fan


    Hi All,

    great info here, I am on the brink of buying a boiler stove to fire 10 single rads to replace my open fire with back boiler, my problem is that my room is narrow at 11foot wide ( 16 foot long)and used as hallway between bedrooms and kitchen, ( double doors into kitchen so that will help control room temp is too hot ). therefore I want a narrow compact stove, the Reginald is too big and I dont want an insert as I have been hearing a lot of problems with these. Fireplace is 20" wide and cannot be widened. So I think my only option is the Inis Meain boiler stove.
    I see relatively little on the forum about these, anyone any experience ( a few years) with these or any advice.
    I will probably buy this weekend

    Thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    vwpolo wrote: »
    Thanks Stove Fan for such a detailed response! We are on a strict budget which is why we're going for the Stockton 3. We planned on an inset stove initially but I've been told the installation would be really expensive and the inset stoves in particular are difficult to install & only as good as the quality of installation [I'm in Galway and can't get any recommendation for someone to do inset stoves]. Also the lining material cost Eur30 per metre and our chimney is the height of 3 stories. So the Stockton seemed like the cheaper but still as effective option. The house is less than ten years old so from what you say no liner should be needed unless it was badly constructed. I've had it swept already.

    Just one specific question - I know the fireback is taken out to install the stove, but does the mantel & surround come off and get put back on also?

    Thanks.

    Hi an inset stove to be honest is a very simple stove to install, far simpler than removing the fireback and making good the sides, back and hearth. Some inset stoves are designed to shape to the rear fireback and so no fireback removal/ construction alterations.
    The chimney doesn't need to be lined providing the clay flue is in a sound working condition. Lining is a much better job though if you can afford the extra.
    It is true though that the manufacturers instructions are followed so they are installed correctly. Backfilling with vermiculite etc.
    Some brands are better than others with regards to insert stoves.
    I personally wouldn't see a need to remove the fire surround, but they may remove the inner marble and slightly enlarge the fireplace opening?
    I would discuss it with them:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Jackbg


    Hi,

    first time using this site so I hope replying on this thread is the right way to ask my question!?

    I have a 2000sq ft bungalow with an underfloor heating system run on oil. My oil bill has been around 3k for 2011 and 2010. So, I'm looking at installing a boiler stove as I have access to quite a bit of wood. Is it a huge job to connect a stove to this system and what brand of stove is the best?

    Thanks in advance,
    Jackbg.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Morning Stove Fan,
    Thanks for your prompt reply, I certainly would consider one of the models you recommended if and when I change this model.
    We put in an 8 or 9 meter flu, we are down in a bit of a dip, perhaps that has a bearing on things, we never had a good open fire in a very heavy frost, but so far we have not had that problem yet, and that worries me.
    I shall check what happens when doors etc are open later on. The house is definitely not airtight, but the stove seems to be. If I opened up the ash box it would take off like a grand prix driver. One is specifically instructed not to do this. The lever marked a - b
    is for air direction. The lever is in the middle when starting the fire and then when it gets going back to A. the middle is also for smokeless fuel, and B is for coal. Sometimes I put the lever down to B to give it a bit of a boost, that works. The biggest problem seems to be when moving from the starting position (between A & B) back to A. WEll I shall just have to put up with it, and I guess take note of exactly the best way to keep it going. I have no problem starting it, it goes off in a blaze, the problem is when the lever goes back to the A position. I am not sure what would happen to the stove if it remained in the middle position. Thanks anyway, you are always most helpful to everyone, and have an abundance of patience. I shall let u know about the position when doors are open.

    Hi:),

    I have been looking at hopefully the right stove operating instructions and the lever on the left is lowest position is for Flame probably (B) on other models, ie when lighting the fire.
    I would leave it in this position for a good 15 minutes and then move it up to A then. It also states that the up and down lever, that the down FLAME symbol or B allows air from below which is what you want when first lighting, particually coal. The position A is air from above only.

    When you light the fire have the lever on the left at B or on FLAME symbol.
    The dial on the right is the air control to the fire. You ideally want it on maximum draw.
    You may need to press in a knob, ignition overide button and set the air control to the 9pm position, Air volume control dial setting aligning with B/flame setting = Max air supply.
    I would leave like this for 15 minutes and then return the left lever to position A
    Then to control the burn rate adjust the air volume control to your desired setting, If too slow adjust higher. Burning too brightly adjust lower:)

    When you add new fuel, adjust the side lever back to flame/B and set the air control knob higher until burning well then set slide back to A and adjust air volume control to a satisfactory burn.
    This is what I was looking at. If not, your stove should be very similar:) Page 8
    http://www.euroheat.co.uk/ImgShare/420049622Operating%20H23%20S23%20SP23%20R23%20Smoke%20Control%20EdB%20Low%20Res.pdf

    Your chimney could be in a rather poor draught condition being in a valley. There may be different chimney pots/terminals that may improve this, but see how you get on with it first.
    All stoves take some experimentation and mastering what works for you and your chimney:)
    Good luck with it.

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Hi All,

    great info here, I am on the brink of buying a boiler stove to fire 10 single rads to replace my open fire with back boiler, my problem is that my room is narrow at 11foot wide ( 16 foot long)and used as hallway between bedrooms and kitchen, ( double doors into kitchen so that will help control room temp is too hot ). therefore I want a narrow compact stove, the Reginald is too big and I dont want an insert as I have been hearing a lot of problems with these. Fireplace is 20" wide and cannot be widened. So I think my only option is the Inis Meain boiler stove.
    I see relatively little on the forum about these, anyone any experience ( a few years) with these or any advice.
    I will probably buy this weekend

    Thanks

    Hi, inset stoves work well providing they are a quality manufacturer and properly installed.
    As your room is narrow how about the Aarrow ecoboiler EB12HE. 12 kw to the water and max 6kw to the room.
    http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb12-he.html
    This is a very compact boiler stove and not very deep like most irish manufacturers.
    You should get the boiler sized, as rads come in a variety of sizes which affect output and boiler size needed.
    You will certainly need the double doors open as your room only needs around 3kw to heat it and this produces up to 6kw.
    Never seen the inis mean so can't comment.

    Stove Fan.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Jackbg wrote: »
    Hi,

    first time using this site so I hope replying on this thread is the right way to ask my question!?

    I have a 2000sq ft bungalow with an underfloor heating system run on oil. My oil bill has been around 3k for 2011 and 2010. So, I'm looking at installing a boiler stove as I have access to quite a bit of wood. Is it a huge job to connect a stove to this system and what brand of stove is the best?

    Thanks in advance,
    Jackbg.

    Hi, yes it is quite a big job as the boiler stove can't heat the underfloor heating direct. You would need to use a thermal store/buffer tank. This would be sized for the system and could range from anywhere 500-1500+ litres. Ideally if your oil boiler all leads to the hotpress the thermal store would replace the existing hot water cylinder in the hotpress.
    This is of course the floor could take the additional weight if upstairs.
    The thermal store would then feed the underfloor circuits and if you have any rads/towel rails these would be fed from the hotter water from the top.

    It really depends how the plumbing routes and how the underfloor manifolds are run/plumbed, but if they all lead from the hotpress then much simpler.

    The only way to find out if it's feasable is to get several quotes.
    If you want the best stove then it's clearview with woodwarm second. Just make sure the plumber sizes the boilers room heat properly as you don't want to roast:eek:
    You may after receiving the quotes go for a non boiler stove:eek:

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 vwpolo


    Thanks Stove Fan :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Jackbg


    Thanks Stove Fan..

    Yes, the tank is on the ground floor so a buffer tank could replace it...so will look into that, even if expensive it's got to beat spending 3k and rising on oil each year!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Jackbg wrote: »
    Thanks Stove Fan..

    Yes, the tank is on the ground floor so a buffer tank could replace it...so will look into that, even if expensive it's got to beat spending 3k and rising on oil each year!

    Sounds good, just remember a heat leak rad. The boiler stove has to be installed on an open vent system. Ie cold water tank in loft which fills the heating system.
    Not a pressurised/sealed system that you fill with a braided hose with a pressure quage on the boiler.
    The plumber who quotes will check all of this out and advice:)

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭guinness queen


    Hi Stove fan,

    Many thanks for all your research. I have read the manual from back to front many times and have followed it to the letter. I guess I will leave the lever in the middle and that seems to do the trick. When the fire was going well today, I put on a mixture called Country mix it is specially for stoves. I did not have to use very much , and then when it was up and running I added the wood. It all went very well, but I did have to keep an eye on it You are right of course it takes a bit of time to understand. There is also a adjustment under the stove but I will try adjusting that if all else fails. Thanks again and I feel like a bit of a nuisance, or a hysterical pensioner. I do really appreciate all your help. When I get it right for a few weeks I will let you know. A chap named Oliver at Euro heat (England) was also more than helpful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭guinness queen


    Stove Fan,
    It throws out great heat.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭kingdom fan


    THanks Stove fan, I prefer the design of the Inis Meain and its marinally narrower also. I'll be looking at it in more detail tomorow morning so I'll give an update on the Inis stove. I'd like to support an Irish company also if I can.
    Thans again


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Jackbg


    Thanks Stove Fan......if I put in a non-boiler stove, can I leave it burning through the night? And if so, is there any particular make that is best suited for that? Also, how do you rate Mulberry stoves?

    Jackbg :-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Jackbg wrote: »
    Thanks Stove Fan......if I put in a non-boiler stove, can I leave it burning through the night? And if so, is there any particular make that is best suited for that? Also, how do you rate Mulberry stoves?

    Jackbg :-)

    You can let a stove burn overnight but to be honest I wouldn't advice it due to greater chance of causing tar/creasote in the chimney caused by slumbering the fire with a far reduced air supply to it. We used to sometimes but the wood was very dry.
    Make sure to install a carbon monoxide alarm:)
    When I have burnt wood overnight I let it burn on full draught for 15 minutes prior to closing up the vents. We had a very large villager A range wood stove which kept in well with the optional damper however the woodwarm or clearview are way superior build/controlability and quality.

    The better makes like Clearview Morso, Charnwood should be better than the cheaper brands.
    You could look up stoves on www.whatstove.co.uk and see if owners can keep them in overnight.
    What size non boiler stove would you want?

    Sorry but never seen a mulberry stove in person.

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭Bubblefett


    Just a quick question if anyone knows- can an electric stove be plugged into a normal plug or does it need a specific socket like an electric oven does? The manual says it is fitted with a BS1363 plug (13 amp fuse rated). Sorry if it's a stupid question, just this technical stuff goes over my head.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Bubblefett wrote: »
    Just a quick question if anyone knows- can an electric stove be plugged into a normal plug or does it need a specific socket like an electric oven does? The manual says it is fitted with a BS1363 plug (13 amp fuse rated). Sorry if it's a stupid question, just this technical stuff goes over my head.

    Yes, no problem to plug in it, it will come with a moulded pre fitted plug by Eu regulations. You just need a socket handy.
    There is no such thing as a stupid question. Best to make sure if it's something your not sure of.

    Stove Fan:)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭Bubblefett


    Thank you Stove Fan :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭cavan4sam


    have ordered the blacksmith forge so i'll update on its performance soon , now i'm looking for a 36x36 heart stone curved at the front , preferably in black slate


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭The Bull


    Was lookin at this stove online and wondered if anyone on here has bought one of these. This one I am interested in is offered at 675 euro with 25 euro for delivery. I wonder what they are like if anyone has any feedback on one like the 16kw listed below?

    http://www.stovedeals.ie/16kwboiler-single.html

    Also came across this blog about them online

    http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.ie/2012/03/bargain-price-multi-fuel-stoves.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 minirolo


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Hi, if you can afford the extra for the woodwarm fireview then do that as it has good power to the water and low 3.7kw to room.

    Your next best option is the Aarrow EB16HE stove as like you say 2.5-8kw to room. Your room probably requires around 5kw now as I only quoted it at 2.4m ceiling height. You have the double doors too the main rooms so leaving them open should let the heat escape to other areas:)

    I personally would't go with the stanley reginald as to be honest there is no advantage in boiler performance, may as well have a higher rated boiler the EB16. the stanley reginald is virtually the same as the Aarrow EB12HE stove. If going lower output buy the EB12 although would heat less rads than the EB16.

    None of them will heat all the rads but the higher the boiler output the more rads they will heat. You may decide to go for a lower heat output like the EB12HE and just heat about 5 double rads. If more output needed the EB16.

    Stove Fan:)


    STOVE FAN thanks for all your help! Just to let you know we ordered a woodwarm fireview 16kw !! Can't wait to use it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭chughes


    I have an open fireplace and I'm thinking of having a stove installed. I've more or less decided on a Stanley stove but my final decision is to get an insert stove or a standard type stove.

    The insert will fit my fireplace (18 inches) and it looks like a neat job with nothing sticking out into the room. The standard type stove sticks out a bit but I wonder does this increase the amount of heat radiated into the room.

    Basically, I'd love to hear of people's experiences of both types to see which would be the better one to go for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 bigburd


    Can someone advise me if I want to install an insert stove do I need a fireback in the fireplace?

    My current fireplace does not have a fireback, there are just cement blocks from the house wall behind the fireplace. The fireplace was for a gas fire.

    Thanks


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭tinofapples


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Hi, yes it is quite a big job as the boiler stove can't heat the underfloor heating direct. You would need to use a thermal store/buffer tank. This would be sized for the system and could range from anywhere 500-1500+ litres. Ideally if your oil boiler all leads to the hotpress the thermal store would replace the existing hot water cylinder in the hotpress.
    This is of course the floor could take the additional weight if upstairs.
    The thermal store would then feed the underfloor circuits and if you have any rads/towel rails these would be fed from the hotter water from the top.

    It really depends how the plumbing routes and how the underfloor manifolds are run/plumbed, but if they all lead from the hotpress then much simpler.

    The only way to find out if it's feasable is to get several quotes.
    If you want the best stove then it's clearview with woodwarm second. Just make sure the plumber sizes the boilers room heat properly as you don't want to roast:eek:
    You may after receiving the quotes go for a non boiler stove:eek:

    Stove Fan:)

    We have underfloor heating in kitchen/dining/sunroom and hallway and we think it's rubbish, only certain spots seems to be heating properly. The plumber is a waster and we are only a matter of time away from kncoking it off and fitting a room heating stove somewhere in the area. Ideally I'd like to fit a stove with a back boiler but I can imagine the costs would be HIGH. We are heating the house with wood pellets boiler atm and may decide on a wood pellet stove as well alothough they are expensive.

    We have a Stanley Oisin bought to fit into our fireplace in the next few days/weeks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    minirolo wrote: »
    STOVE FAN thanks for all your help! Just to let you know we ordered a woodwarm fireview 16kw !! Can't wait to use it!

    Hi, glad I could help:D Woodwarm are a really nice quality stove, I think you will love it:D

    Let us all have a photo when installed:)

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    chughes wrote: »
    I have an open fireplace and I'm thinking of having a stove installed. I've more or less decided on a Stanley stove but my final decision is to get an insert stove or a standard type stove.

    The insert will fit my fireplace (18 inches) and it looks like a neat job with nothing sticking out into the room. The standard type stove sticks out a bit but I wonder does this increase the amount of heat radiated into the room.

    Basically, I'd love to hear of people's experiences of both types to see which would be the better one to go for.

    The inset stove is the best for installation simplicity unless your existing hearth that the new freestanding stove will sit on is very deep.

    If you have a freestanding stove the hearth has to project 12 inches in front of the stove for building regs/manufacturers instructions.
    Depending on your room depth this could look out of proportion.
    The other thing to remember is you have to add the depth between the wall to the stove. This will be mentioned in the installation manual.
    Stoves cant be placed straight against a wall, it must have the correct distance from the wall.
    Also if your fire surround is wooden then any stove must be the specified clearance to combustibles. Stanley installation instructions are online, so could view before buying if a self install.

    So long as it's well installed and of good manufacture they should both work equally well. If you mentioned the inset model someone might have that model:) It would be great to see one lit.

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    bigburd wrote: »
    Can someone advise me if I want to install an insert stove do I need a fireback in the fireplace?

    My current fireplace does not have a fireback, there are just cement blocks from the house wall behind the fireplace. The fireplace was for a gas fire.

    Thanks

    Hi,

    Some insert stoves have to have the fireback removed and some can be installed with the fireback in place. Not sure if you haven't a fireback but if you must replace it before installing the stove.
    I would advice reading the installation manual online if a well known make and If they don't specify you could email them.
    Check that the chimney is a class 1 ie suitable for solid fuel and not just gas. If it's all masonry it's all good. A survey/quote by a stove installer would verify.

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    We have underfloor heating in kitchen/dining/sunroom and hallway and we think it's rubbish, only certain spots seems to be heating properly. The plumber is a waster and we are only a matter of time away from kncoking it off and fitting a room heating stove somewhere in the area. Ideally I'd like to fit a stove with a back boiler but I can imagine the costs would be HIGH. We are heating the house with wood pellets boiler atm and may decide on a wood pellet stove as well alothough they are expensive.

    We have a Stanley Oisin bought to fit into our fireplace in the next few days/weeks.

    Sorry to hear of your heating dissapointment:( I have no idea how much it could cost but it sounds as if you may be best to install new rads downstairs in some rooms.
    If after getting quotes to sort out the heating installation and installing a boiler stove you may find that a non boiler stove is your cheapest option.
    Good luck with it,

    Stove Fan:)


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