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B*yl*sports not honouring Euro Golden Boot bets?

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    #32
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,092 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    28064212 wrote: »
    Incorrect. The Golden Boot is decided by the person who has scored the most goals, followed by the most assists, followed by the least minutes on the pitch.

    It's the difference between betting on who won the Premiership and who got the most points. If you bet on the premiership winners, the bookie pays out on Manchester City. If you bet on the most points, it's split between City and United.

    Top scorer does not equal Golden Boot winner

    No, not incorrect.

    that's now they decide who gets it if their level on goals, if their's no players level on goals them two tiebreakers don't come into play. If one has more assists than the other the least minutes played one doesn't come into effect

    the top scorer at the european championships is awarded the golden boot
    golden boot = top scorer & top scorer = golden boot


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    #33
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,471 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    No, not incorrect.

    that's now they decide who gets it if their level on goals, if their's no players level on goals them two tiebreakers don't come into play. If one has more assists than the other the least minutes played one doesn't come into effect

    the top scorer at the european championships is awarded the golden boot
    golden boot = top scorer & top scorer = golden boot
    Mario Balotelli scored three goals at the European Championships. No-one scored more than him. He is (one of) the top scorers

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    #34
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,296 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    As a general rule X Country to win and their striker Y to be top scorer are notoriously bad value, mug bets even.

    *****
    To paraphrase Pullein's example in the Racing Post.
    Germany were 3/1, Gomez 8/1 but instead of the double being 35/1 it was actually 16/1.
    Now some can say this is because the prices are related, which to an extent is true.
    However the initial prices 3/1 and 8/1 are already reduced because of this relationship - Germany are as short as 3/1 JFs because they have players like Gomez, and Gomez is as short as 8/1 because he plays for a top team like Germany.

    So when the prices get halved again when you do the double you are into complete mug territory.

    Something to bear in mind before doing the Messi Argentina doubles in two years.


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    #35
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,092 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    28064212 wrote: »
    Mario Balotelli scored three goals at the European Championships. No-one scored more than him. He is (one of) the top scorers

    he did score 3 goals along with five others yes, but he is not the official top scorer of the tournament, which is torres. The official top scorer who got the golden boot.


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    #36
    Rekop dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭Rekop dog


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    As a general rule X Country to win and their striker Y to be top scorer are notoriously bad value, mug bets even.

    *****
    To paraphrase Pullein's example in the Racing Post.
    Germany were 3/1, Gomez 8/1 but instead of the double being 35/1 it was actually 16/1.
    Now some can say this is because the prices are related, which to an extent is true.
    However the initial prices 3/1 and 8/1 are already reduced because of this relationship - Germany are as short as 3/1 JFs because they have players like Gomez, and Gomez is as short as 8/1 because he plays for a top team like Germany.

    So when the prices get halved again when you do the double you are into complete mug territory.

    Something to bear in mind before doing the Messi Argentina doubles in two years.

    Even the 3/1 alone on Germany to win is shocking value. If you backed them to qualify in the quarters semi and final(I know they didn't make it but theoretically) rolling over winnings from each bet, the accumulative price would have been almost certainly > than the 3/1 + you're freerolling the group stages.


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    #37
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,296 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    he did score 3 goals along with five others yes, but he is not the official top scorer of the tournament, which is torres. The official top scorer who got the golden boot.

    How difficult is to get that bookmakers weren't taking bets on the 'official' top scorer, they were taking bets on who scored the most goals?


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    #38
    MrJoeSoap
    Registered Users Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    I'd just really expect them to pay out full on Torres as he is the top scorer i couldn't care about the other 5 & don't think they should pay on them.

    wonder are they all doing the 1/6

    He isn't the top scorer! It's not that hard a concept to grasp, there were 6 players tied for top scorer.

    And yes, they are all doing the exact same.
    Paddy Power wrote:
    Why are my returns not as much as I thought?
    With Top Goalscorer markets there is always a possiblity of players tied on the same number of goals. This can generate dead heats (especially for places in each-way bets) and this can be tricky to understand. We have provided an explanation below:

    Top Goalscorer dead heat
    With the Top Goalscorer market it is possible for two or more players to be deemed winners having finished with the same number of goals. In this event a dead heat is applied to all winning selections. The stake is divided by the number of players tied for Top Goalscorer and paid out at the full odds.

    Example from Euro 2012 Final: You backed Fernando Torres to be top goalscorer at 18/1, £10.00 stake. There were 6 players tied for first place for Top Goalscorer (Torres, Balotelli, Dzagoev,Gomez, Mandzukic and Ronaldo all scored 3 goals). Therefore your stake is divided by 6 and paid at 18/1 which is 1.66 at 18/1. Winnings = £31.67 Please note: Goals scored in extra-time count for Top Goalscorer markets but goals scored in penalty shootouts do not count.

    Own goals do not count for goalscorer markets.



    **Please Note - The Top Goalscorer market is entirely seperate to placing a bet on who would win the 'Golden Boot' award; Top Goalscorer is determined by who has scored the most goals within the tournament, in accordance with the rules above; any 'Golden Boot' market would be directly decided by the announcement from UEFA as to the winner of the award.


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    #39
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,471 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    he did score 3 goals along with five others yes, but he is not the official top scorer of the tournament, which is torres. The official top scorer who got the golden boot.
    The golden boot award is defined by goals, followed by assists, followed by least minutes. That's what the golden boot award means. It does not mean the player who scored the most goals (although they can sometimes be the same)

    If you put a bet down last season on Man United to get the most points (not win the premiership, just to get the most points), would you say they didn't achieve it?

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    #40
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,092 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    How difficult is to get that bookmakers weren't taking bets on the 'official' top scorer, they were taking bets on who scored the most goals?
    MrJoeSoap wrote: »
    He isn't the top scorer! It's not that hard a concept to grasp, there were 6 players tied for top scorer.

    And yes, they are all doing the exact same.

    I had understood it you know, I'm not pointing out to that person or anyone else what i think the bookies do i've understood that even though i think it's a stupid rule in this case, what i'm saying is who is the official top scorer. not what some fúcking bookie says, nothing to do with gambling. Which since this is a thread about the difference may be confusing things.


    which would you think cost more to them paying 1/6 stake on all six or paying full on just torres


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    #41
    DB74
    Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭DB74


    There is no doubt that paying out in full on Torres (one of the favs @ 18/1) would cost them more than paying 1/6th odds on 6 different guys

    I would be amazed if many people backed Mandzukic or Dzagoev before the tournament


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    #42
    MrJoeSoap
    Registered Users Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    which would you think cost more to them paying 1/6 stake on all six or paying full on just torres

    You do understand that this rule is there for many, many years? It wasn't made up to screw you out of your little Torres bet.


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    #43
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,471 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    what i'm saying is who is the official top scorer.
    Who has called Torres the official top scorer? Every news report, every statement, every release from UEFA says he got the Golden Boot, which means that, of the top scorers, he had the most assists, and of those, he had the fewest minutes of the pitch

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    #44
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,092 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    28064212 wrote: »
    The golden boot award is defined by goals, followed by assists, followed by least minutes. That's what the golden boot award means. It does not mean the player who scored the most goals (although they can sometimes be the same)

    If you put a bet down last season on Man United to get the most points (not win the premiership, just to get the most points), would you say they didn't achieve it?


    you keep saying followed by, do you think these are included if there's no players level on goals?
    In the euro's/world cup/PL the winner of the golden boot is the player who has scored the most goals & in the euro's + WC there's tie breaking criteria to decide who gets it.


    yes i would say united didn't achieve that as they had the same points as city


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    #45
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,471 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    you keep saying followed by, do you think these are included if there's no players level on goals?
    In the euro's/world cup/PL the winner of the golden boot is the player who has scored the most goals & in the euro's + WC there's tie breaking criteria to decide who gets it.


    yes i would say united didn't achieve that as they had the same points as city
    "Top scorer" has exactly one meaning: Scored the most goals. Golden Boot has additional criteria. Can you tell me why the UEFA top scorers page has Alan Dzagoev in the second position, even though he came third in the Golden Boot award?

    If the bookies offered markets on the Golden Boot, you could tell because they would offer markets on the Golden Boot. They didn't, they offered markets on top scorer only

    At this stage you must be trolling.

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    #46
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,092 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    DB74 wrote: »
    There is no doubt that paying out in full on Torres (one of the favs @ 18/1) would cost them more than paying 1/6th odds on 6 different guys

    I would be amazed if many people backed Mandzukic or Dzagoev before the tournament

    but the others especially gomez would have been well back, maybe ronaldo too
    + a lot would have backed dzagoev after his opening match remember seeing his two prices (before & after the game) unsure if the same happened with mandzukic

    MrJoeSoap wrote: »
    You do understand that this rule is there for many, many years? It wasn't made up to screw you out of your little Torres bet.

    i know it wasn't :pac: & i didn't bet on torres.
    i just think they should pay out on him & only him in this case as they've tie break rules in place unlike the PL for example


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    #47
    DB74
    Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭DB74


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    but the others especially gomez would have been well back, maybe ronaldo too
    + a lot would have backed dzagoev after his opening match remember seeing his two prices

    What do you mean "well back"

    Gomez was favourite for months before the tournament started while Ronaldo was about 3rd favourite


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    #48
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,092 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    28064212 wrote: »
    "Top scorer" has exactly one meaning: Scored the most goals. Golden Boot has additional criteria. Can you tell me why the UEFA top scorers page has Alan Dzagoev in the second position, even though he came third in the Golden Boot award?

    If the bookies offered markets on the Golden Boot, you could tell because they would offer markets on the Golden Boot. They didn't, they offered markets on top scorer only

    At this stage you must be trolling.

    The page hasn't been updated i'd say can you tell me why on this page he's third like you said he should be http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2012/golden-boot/index.html

    it's not additional criteria, they're tie break rules.

    there's no point to this at all, you're the one trolling because you couldn't be that slow to pick it up.


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    #49
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,296 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    DB74 wrote: »
    What do you mean "well back"

    Gomez was favourite for months before the tournament started while Ronaldo was about 3rd favourite

    Typo I'd say, think he meant 'well backed', i.e., agreeing with you that they were amongst the favs.


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    #50
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,092 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    yeah i meant well backed


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    #51
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,471 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    The page hasn't been updated i'd say
    :rolleyes: Despite the fact that Torres is down as having three goals, right
    batistuta9 wrote: »
    can you tell me why on this page he's third like you said he should be http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2012/golden-boot/index.html
    Because that page is for the GOLDEN BOOT award, not top scorer.

    Halfway down this page. Again, not ranked by the golden boot criteria, they're all lumped together under three goals
    batistuta9 wrote: »
    it's not additional criteria, they're tie break rules.
    Use whatever phrasing you want. It doesn't change that they're solely for the awarding of the Golden Boot, not for top scorer

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    #52
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,092 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    Players at UEFA Futsal EURO 2012 will be aiming to help their team to tournament victory but they will also have a chance of individual glory in the race for the adidas Golden, Silver and Bronze Boots.

    As in previous tournaments the adidas Golden Boot will be awarded to the top scorer, although in Croatia the prize will not be shared, with the Silver and Bronze boots being given to those finishing second and third. If two or more players are equal on goals scored, the following criteria will apply:
    link http://www.uefa.com/futsaleuro/news/newsid=1745868.html
    Adrián López had double reason to celebrate as he claimed the adidas Golden Boot award to go with his UEFA European Under-21 Championship winners' medal with Spain.

    Although the striker did not manage to score in Saturday's Aarhus final, Adrián's five goals were enough to take the honour as the top marksman in Denmark.
    link http://www.uefa.com/under21/news/newsid=1647286.html

    top scorer = golden boot & golden boot = top scorer

    end of.



    and we're aware of what way the bookies decide it incase you think were/i'm not


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    #53
    MrJoeSoap
    Registered Users Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    Sigh.


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    #54
    amiable
    Registered Users Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    MrJoeSoap wrote: »
    Sigh.

    Why sigh? Surely you know when someone puts ''end of'' in a post they have won and whatever you say won't be valid?


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    #55
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Any bookie I spoke to were applying the dead heat rule


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    #56
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    lads before you go into a bookies, know what your betting on, how the winner is determined, maximum payout, related bets etc...

    Because coming on the internet or work complaining when the rules were correctly applied does not show you in a good light.


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    #57
    wynters
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭wynters


    efb wrote: »
    Because coming on the internet... complaining when the rules were correctly applied does not show you in a good light.

    ... neither does coming on all smug and self-righteous. This IS an internet forum for football betting. Why isn't the debate relevant?

    If the tournament's organisers UEFA have a method of awarding the Golden Boot to one particular individual at the end of the tournament, be it by tie-break rules or assists or other ways of assessing and measuring a players contribution to the tournament, then why can't that just be accepted as the final official ruling? Bookmakers are unnecessarily applying their own criteria to suit themselves. Why can't bookmakers just research UEFAs rules and adjust their prices on the basis of the official rules?

    The Golden Boot award is, in-effect what 'less experienced' punters are betting their money on. Punters stake money in good faith based on the odds invited. So for it to come down to wordings ('Top scorer' v 'Golden Boot') is a get out clause for the bookie. It's not a fair bet in that sense if it's covertly weighted in the bookies favour...

    I think anyone who's lost out on a few quid because of this has a right to feel a bit hard done by...


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    #58
    amiable
    Registered Users Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    wynters wrote: »
    ... neither does coming on all smug and self-righteous. This IS an internet forum for football betting. Why isn't the debate relevant?

    If the tournament's organisers UEFA have a method of awarding the Golden Boot to one particular individual at the end of the tournament, be it by tie-break rules or assists or other ways of assessing and measuring a players contribution to the tournament, then why can't that just be accepted as the final official ruling? Bookmakers are unnecessarily applying their own criteria to suit themselves. Why can't bookmakers just research UEFAs rules and adjust their prices on the basis of the official rules?

    The Golden Boot award is, in-effect what 'less experienced' punters are betting their money on. Punters stake money in good faith based on the odds invited. So for it to come down to wordings ('Top scorer' v 'Golden Boot') is a get out clause for the bookie. It's not a fair bet in that sense if it's covertly weighted in the bookies favour...

    I think anyone who's lost out on a few quid because of this has a right to feel a bit hard done by...

    You placed the bet with Boylesports and not UEFA.
    I think you feel aggrieved because you didn't get the support you expected.
    If you are old enough to bet then you are old enough to read the rules and terms offered before the bet.


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    #59
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    I'd just really expect them to pay out full on Torres as he is the top scorer i couldn't care about the other 5 & don't think they should pay on them.

    wonder are they all doing the 1/6

    Each and every one of them.

    Seriously, its is headwrecking to have to see people repeat this time and time again. There was top scorer market, not a golden boot market.

    There was more then 1 top scorer and as such bets were settled under dead heat rules as they always are.

    The bookies are not doing anything wrong, the terms of the bet are laid out before the bet, they do not go by uefa criteria to have a single top scorer because they dont have to. They dont have a golden boot market.

    Uefa want to have just one person awarded the golden boot, thats up to them. It doesnt change that there was more then one person who finished with the same amount of goals.

    Get over it.

    Or at least stop repeating the same old argument and pretending you don't get the concept


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    #60
    ft9
    Registered Users Posts: 4,408 ✭✭✭ft9


    /thread


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    #61
    okidoki987
    Registered Users Posts: 10,617 ✭✭✭✭okidoki987


    I know there are a lot of people who are hacked off with bookies after all the deadheats apply but as has been said many times before, there were 2 different markets Golden Boot which Torres won on his own & Top scorer which was a 5 waytie.
    End of story.
    It depends on the bookie what market they were quoting and which one punters backed.
    If someone backed Torres in the "Golden Boot" market, there is no dead heat.
    If someone backed Torres or any of the other 4 players in the "Top Goalscorer" market, there is a dead heat to apply of 1/6 stake to full odds.
    If someone needs a copy of the Racing Post which had the Uefa supplement
    with all the bookie odds and markets (only applies to main stream bookies & not independents), I still have it.
    Send me a PM and I'll email a copy of it.


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