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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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    #4052
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    Great article on whiff of cordite;

    http://whiffofcordite.com/2012/05/09/the-great-heineken-cup-swindle/

    "Ireland’s gameplan under Deccie has gone from puke rugby (2008-2010 vs Wales) to going wide and lateral at every opportunity (2010 vs Scotland – 2012 vs Wales) to a promising-looking hybrid featuring backline moves other than the Randwick Loop (2012 vs Italy onwards). The lack of a coherent gameplan post-Boks 2009 for 2.5 years is one thing, but then the complete lack of questioning of it is another. Meanwhile selection has become a dismally tiresome affair, with management handing out loyalty cards, but the same media apologists see it as their mission to defend every iota of team selection, even when it flies in the face of all available logic."

    I just love the end as well;
    "Or might it be that the coaching, selection and tactics are crap, and the current ticket cannot get the best from the resources at its disposal? Just a thought…"

    Keep thinking!!


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    #4053
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    durkadurka wrote: »
    Thing that gets me is this: Toland is a very good and respected analyst and former pro. I would venture that he knows more about the game than anyone in this forum.

    Yet he says ROG is still playing well. And I can't see evidence for this.
    Aside from the miracle drop goals I can't remember him playing that well in the last few months. I don't even hear that many Munster fans saying he's playing great.

    Very little gametime this year - he has started 3 games since the start of the 6Ns at the end of January (Treviso, Leinster & Ulster). He got 82 minutes as a sub in the 6Ns. Compared to Sexton who started 9 games (5 internationals) in the same time span.


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    #4054
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He got plenty of game time in the RWC and was still very poor in the QF and not exactly stellar for Munster in the first few HEC games.


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    #4055
    Kate Harsh Lightning
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Kate Harsh Lightning


    jm08 wrote: »
    Very little gametime this year - he has started 3 games since the start of the 6Ns at the end of January (Treviso, Leinster & Ulster). He got 82 minutes as a sub in the 6Ns. Compared to Sexton who started 9 games (5 internationals) in the same time span.

    so the evidence that he is playing good rugby is missing? As durkadurka had said?

    When's the last game that ROG played that he played "really well" (subjective obviously) in?


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    #4056
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    .ak wrote: »

    If Keatley travelled with a handful of Munster starts this season it'd be a farce.

    for the record - 14 starts for Munster this season (2 less starts than Madigan) and 8 more than Paddy Jackson.


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    #4057
    Kate Harsh Lightning
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Kate Harsh Lightning


    jm08 wrote: »
    for the record - 14 starts for Munster this season (2 less starts than Madigan) and 8 more than Paddy Jackson.

    ready to play for Ireland in your estimation?

    How many HEC minutes did he get? A weapon that many used to batter the chances of Ulster and Connacht players over the past season with.


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    #4058
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Deleted User wrote: »
    so the evidence that he is playing good rugby is missing? As durkadurka had said?

    durkadurka also said "I don't even hear that many Munster fans saying he's playing great. "

    If he isn't playing, they can't comment. Thats the reason they are not saying he is playing great. ;)

    When's the last game that ROG played that he played "really well" (subjective obviously) in?

    He was playing well up to the start of the 6Ns (and was excellent against Treviso during the 6Ns).


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    #4059
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Deleted User wrote: »
    so the evidence that he is playing good rugby is missing? As durkadurka had said?

    When's the last game that ROG played that he played "really well" (subjective obviously) in?

    Northampton away, but I'd be slow to read too much into that game given what happened before and since.


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    #4060
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ready to play for Ireland in your estimation?

    How many HEC minutes did he get? A weapon that many used to batter the chances of Ulster and Connacht players over the past season with.

    Hang on a second here - I'm not advocating that Keatley go on tour - he has a lot to do yet.

    Claiming that he has had a handful of starts for Munster (no mention of Heineken Cup starts) is the comment I was responding to.


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    #4061
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    The heroic drop goals are the memories that stay with people of those matches, not the 79 minutes previous, and so common consensus is that he played well in those games. Even though you could argue they wouldn't have needed last minute DG's with another fly-half.


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    #4062
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Northampton away, but I'd be slow to read too much into that game given what happened before and since.

    What has happened since?


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    #4063
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He played outhalf in a game where he had 70% possession and produced **** all.


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    #4064
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    ROG was solid if not spectacular up until the 6 nations.

    He's been pretty poor ever since, the Ulster game being his worst in a long time IMO


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    #4065
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    He played outhalf in a game where he had 70% possession and produced **** all.

    Well maybe hardly any gametime in the previous 2 months might have had something to do with it, not to mention Ulster's superb defence.


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    #4066
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    jm08 wrote: »
    Well maybe hardly any gametime in the previous 2 months might have had something to do with it, not to mention Ulster's superb defence.

    he was piss poor, just accept it


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    #4067
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    jm08 wrote: »
    What has happened since?


    Out played by two out halves against Leinster?


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    #4068
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    he was piss poor, just accept it

    Fair enough. If you want to write him off on one match then, go ahead. (He hasn't played since, so may well be injured in it)


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    #4069
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    jm08 wrote: »
    Fair enough. If you want to write him off on one match then, go ahead. (He hasn't played since, so may well be injured in it)

    I'm not writing him off on one match

    He's been poor nearly all season

    His passing game has all but deserted him and even his kicking out of hand hasn't been near as effective

    Without that ROG becomes a very average fly half


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    #4070
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Out played by two out halves against Leinster?

    It took two of them? :eek:


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    #4071
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    jm08 wrote: »
    It took two of them? :eek:

    oh har dee har har

    ROG has not played well this season, don't let some last minute DGs fool you. And I am a big fan of his, but a fan should be able to admit when his hero is not performing well instead of being blind.


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    #4072
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    jm08 wrote: »
    It took two of them? :eek:

    Yeah-Sexton was struggling so much compared to ROG that Schmidt hauled him off and Madigan just about got Leinster over the line in spite of ROG's brilliance...


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    #4073
    part time punk
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭part time punk


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    even his kicking out of hand hasn't been near as effective

    Without that ROG becomes a very average fly half

    I know ROG has never had a massive boot in terms of the distance covered, it was always more about the pin point accuracy. But the distance he's getting defintely seems to have dropped a bit over the last few seasons .. or is that just me?


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    #4074
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    I'm not writing him off on one match

    He's been poor nearly all season

    His passing game has all but deserted him and even his kicking out of hand hasn't been near as effective

    Without that ROG becomes a very average fly half

    I disagree. I would have had no complaints about his form to just after the Treviso game in the 6Ns.

    Considering he has been out for a few weeks with a leg injury might explain why his kicking from hand hasn't been great.

    Losing Howlett as well would have put an awful lot of pressure on him as Munster have a very young and inexperienced backline, with apparently our best player (Earls) carrying an injury.


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    #4075
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    oh har dee har har

    ROG has not played well this season, don't let some last minute DGs fool you. And I am a big fan of his, but a fan should be able to admit when his hero is not performing well instead of being blind.

    I think of rugby as a team sport and you can't expect one player to perform miracles. The better the pack usually, the better the outhalf ;)


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    #4076
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Which is glossing over the fact that the pack largely did their job against Ulster. 70% and territory should be enough to win most games but ROG was muck in that game. He was alright in the early part of the season but no more.


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    #4077
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    ROG is great, just not when he has had very little gametime and he's playing against a good defense.

    We should definitely bring him to New Zealand so...


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    #4078
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    ROG is great, just not when he has had very little gametime and he's playing against a good defense.

    We should definitely bring him to New Zealand so...

    The notion of not getting enough game time to play well is dispelled by one man:

    Stephan Ferris


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    #4079
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Which is glossing over the fact that the pack largely did their job against Ulster. 70% and territory should be enough to win most games but ROG was muck in that game. He was alright in the early part of the season but no more.


    Give a bit of credit to Ulster's defence. It was phenomenal. Similar to Wales in the world cup.

    Are you a critic of the Murray's distribution?


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    #4080
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    jm08 wrote: »
    Give a bit of credit to Ulster's defence. It was phenomenal. Similar to Wales in the world cup.

    Are you a critic of the Murray's distribution?

    10's are normally charged with unlocking defenses

    Sextons put plenty of good defenses to the sword this season


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    #4081
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    The notion of not getting enough game time to play well is dispelled by one man:

    Stephan Ferris

    I thought Ferris started all the 6Ns games :confused:

    POC might be a better example as he was coming back from an injury from the 6Ns.

    Murray looks better now than he first did in his first game back after getting injured in the 6Ns.

    Have you an example of a outhalf (even a back) who don't seem to need gametime to always play well?


This discussion has been closed.
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