Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

How are Unions allowed get away with this?

Options
2

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,378 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    the_syco wrote: »
    Once the union bosses keep their big salaries, they will continue to do so!
    This is one of the most hilarious aspects to it for me.

    Union bosses on their massive salaries preaching about protecting the little man. Irony at its best.


  • Options
    #33
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Fozzie Bear wrote: »
    Gotta love the unions and the sheer neck they have. They do some good but by and large are absolute chancers.

    I'm getting married in a few weeks time and as a private sector worker I get one single day off for this.

    Wife to be is public sector and gets a week. Her bridesmaids are also public sector and get a day off! Thats right they get a paid days leave just because they are shagging bridesmaids.

    I'm the bloody groom and I am just getting a day off.

    Jeremy Clarkson may have been onto something when he said machine gun them..... (union officials that is)


    Oh really!
    What area of the public sector because i reckon your talking bullcrap?


  • Options
    #34
    b.harte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 524 ✭✭✭b.harte


    I'm going to show my hand first:
    I'm vice chair of the Union (SIPTU) in the factory where I work. :o

    It is an utterly thankless role, that I don't get paid for and I even get phone calls from people on my days off.....
    The union movement in principle is a great concept, the notion that solidarity can generate positive results for employees and employers is the cornerstone of every union movement.

    However, in my opinion, and in my experience the Unions (by and large) are completely disconnected from reality.
    Yes, workers rights are important and it is correct and proper that these be upheld or improved at every opportunity, but the notion of entitlements and such is getting a bit dated, especially given the current business climate in this country.

    I believe that the union model needs to change, I think that the idea of asking people to strike, sit-in, frustrate changes to work practices where necessary are fundamentally wrong and have no place in a progressive workplace.
    I believe that the unions need to concentrate on the legal aspects of employment, if something an employer does is illegal then challenge it, if something is questionable, look for clarification on it. If the current methods of resolution at labour court or conciliation aren't working then devise a suitable alternative with business partners that is fit for purpose.

    I also strongly believe that the Unions in this country, (by and large) need to take stock of the situations we find ourselves in. It is, in my opinion, disrespectful to all employees to protect the entitlements of some sections and take a stance against the economic measures proposed to pay for those entitlements, and I'm not deliberately bash the P.S. or the banking sector here. I feel it is inappropriate for any union to oppose taxes and charges when similarly opposing alterations to "agreed conditions" where some of these conditions are funded by tax or charges to customers.

    Back to the OP, it is inappropriate to seek any payment for such a trivial move, if it were a move of 20 or 30km then I could understand how there may be an argument for an inconvenience payment. But FFS looking for extra money because you have to figure out where stuff goes, how about engage with the employer on a system where there is a standardisation in store layout? Instead of whining bout the inconvenience develop a mutual solution. What this boils down to is greed, it is know that Tesco is a profitable organisation, someone wants a bigger slice of the pie.

    It is also worth pointing out that there is discontent within the Union movements about how some aspects are managed, the ideas or precedent and "it's been done before" are being challenged.

    MY OWN OPINION:
    Just because a payment was made before does not mean it is appropriate to demand that the payment be made again, unless the previous payment was incorporated into the relevant collective agreement or employment contracts, (this goes back to the legal aspects I referred to earlier).
    This may seem at odds with the union role but I firmly believe that concrete agreements and contracts are worth more in the long run than the Labour court route.
    Finally, I also believe that every collective agreement should have a provision for role-backs / re-negotiation where the economic situation of the employer, both private and public changes dramatically. This would have been handy for benchmarking and the CPA.

    Also, the union representative (outside of the local shop steward don't have to "Jump on Board, I've experienced situations where the advice from Siptu Legal was not to pursue something, and this was supported with appropriate levels of research into the probable outcome. Didn't go down well at work.

    Sorry for the rant, don't even get me started on non-contributory pensions.


  • Options
    #35
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    awec wrote: »
    This is one of the most hilarious aspects to it for me.

    Union bosses on their massive salaries preaching about protecting the little man. Irony at its best.


    How is it Ironic?


  • Options
    #36
    seanoge
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭seanoge


    I worked in Germany for 20 years. Over there firms over 20 employees must have a Union rep on the board. We got 6 WEEKs paid holiday a year. An extra months wages at Xmas. And looked after. Don't hear Germany going down the pan because of strong unions.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    seanoge wrote: »
    I worked in Germany for 20 years. Over there firms over 20 employees must have a Union rep on the board. We got 6 WEEKs paid holiday a year. An extra months wages at Xmas. And looked after. Don't hear Germany going down the pan because of strong unions.

    Germany, despite a few quirks, is rather better run.


  • Options
    #38
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    mike65 wrote: »
    Germany, despite a few quirks, is rather better run.

    probably because germans are robots :(


  • Options
    #39
    Mountjoy Mugger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,486 ✭✭✭Mountjoy Mugger


    Fozzie Bear wrote: »
    Wife to be is public sector and gets a week. Her bridesmaids are also public sector and get a day off! Thats right they get a paid days leave just because they are shagging bridesmaids.

    They get a paid day's leave because they are entitled to take leave, as are all employees. The fact that it's a wedding is neither here nor there.

    No such thing as "wedding leave" in the public service. Oddly enough, some private sector companies seem to give it.

    Staff may be allowed to carry forward leave that they have unused. This might be helpful for honeymoon etc.


  • Options
    #40
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    The Unions are a grand bunch of lads, now leave it be :)


  • Options
    #41
    gazzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,052 ✭✭✭gazzer


    Fozzie Bear wrote: »
    Gotta love the unions and the sheer neck they have. They do some good but by and large are absolute chancers.

    I'm getting married in a few weeks time and as a private sector worker I get one single day off for this.

    Wife to be is public sector and gets a week. Her bridesmaids are also public sector and get a day off! Thats right they get a paid days leave just because they are shagging bridesmaids.

    I'm the bloody groom and I am just getting a day off.

    Jeremy Clarkson may have been onto something when he said machine gun them..... (union officials that is)

    What part of the public service is your wife and her bridesmaids in cos I am in the Civil Service and I am getting married in August and I am only getting one day for it. There is absolutely nothing in the civil service leave guidelines about getting time off if you are a bridesmaid or a best man.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    gazzer wrote: »
    What part of the public service is your wife and her bridesmaids in cos I am in the Civil Service and I am getting married in August and I am only getting one day for it. There is absolutely nothing in the civil service leave guidelines about getting time off if you are a bridesmaid or a best man.

    oh yes there is, you also get a goose and a maiden fair, or is that for retirement... ;)


  • Options
    #43
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,920 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Biggins wrote: »
    I fully support the principle idea behind unions (that of a joint amalgamation of people coming together to see their rights too are upheld) but the unions in Ireland are going overboard and totally taking the piss!

    Absolutely agree with this. Unions seem to pick fights about the strangest things, often ignoring big issues and focusing on little ones.

    Some unions pick little fights they can win so they look like they're doing something and can justify their monthly payments.


  • Options
    #44
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Fozzie Bear wrote: »
    Gotta love the unions and the sheer neck they have. They do some good but by and large are absolute chancers.

    I'm getting married in a few weeks time and as a private sector worker I get one single day off for this.

    Wife to be is public sector and gets a week. Her bridesmaids are also public sector and get a day off! Thats right they get a paid days leave just because they are shagging bridesmaids.

    I'm the bloody groom and I am just getting a day off.

    I think you've taken it up wrong

    There is no special leave for bridesmaids. Maybe they are just winding you up, you seem to be easy to get a rise out of

    Many of the multi-nationals have good offers like five days off.
    MBNA in Carrick on Shannon have this, so do others

    Wouldn't be as much in smaller Irish companies


  • Options
    #45
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,957 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Fozzie Bear wrote: »
    I'm getting married in a few weeks time and as a private sector worker I get one single day off for this.

    Wife to be is public sector and gets a week. Her bridesmaids are also public sector and get a day off! Thats right they get a paid days leave just because they are shagging bridesmaids.

    I'm the bloody groom and I am just getting a day off
    Good luck with your big day! :)


    You'll need to clarify that post though.

    Are you only taking one day from your annual leave allocation or are you lucky enough to be granted an extra day by your employer?
    Is your wife to be taking a week from her normal annual leave allocation?
    Are the bridesmaids taking time off from their normal annual leave allocation?

    In some areas of the Public Service an employee getting married may apply for 5 days extra exceptional leave but those 5 days combined with their normal leave must not exceed 23 days. Therefore the employee would have to have an annual leave allocation of less than 18 days per year.

    I have been in the Public Service for 24 years and have yet to hear of anyone qualifying for it. The only perk in my area is that one getting married may take annual leave at the time of marriage rather than the norm of signing for leave by seniority in service.


  • Options
    #46
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,290 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    How is it Ironic?

    So you think its fine for Jack O Connor to be on a big salary? Im guessing you are PC, if so do you think he gives value for money?


  • Options
    #47
    D1stant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭D1stant


    Fozzie Bear wrote: »

    Wife to be is public sector and gets a week. Her bridesmaids are also public sector and get a day off! Thats right they get a paid days leave just because they are shagging bridesmaids.

    Your wedding sounds like a blast. Any chance of an invite?


  • Options
    #48
    fatherted1969
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭fatherted1969


    token101 wrote: »
    Maybe legally, but morally, how would it be unfair? Person holds business to ransom for €1400, business says f*** off and if you don't like it go work elsewhere.
    Plenty of
    companies holding
    workers to ransom the last couple of years and nothing about it. I always found that the more pressure that you could exert on companies the less **** that they came back with. Plenty of times i was in LRC with companies knowing that there was a strong possibility that we would lose. Another thing the union only represents the wishes of the workforce they dont come up with these notion's themselves. Comments like these sicken my hole sometimes. Maybe what they're at is part of a different plan and they knew they'd lose but gain ground elsewhere in negotiations


  • Options
    #49
    uch
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭uch


    flutered wrote: »
    there should be a limit on what can be brought before the labour court.

    Wait until your employer stops you from wearing a Kilt and curly red wig while He's extracting teeth in his dental surgery, then you'll appreciate the unions!

    21/25



  • Options
    #50
    brandon_flowers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭brandon_flowers


    fatherted1969 wrote: »
    Plenty of
    companies holding
    workers to ransom the last couple of years and nothing about it. I always found that the more pressure that you could exert on companies the less **** that they came back with. Plenty of times i was in LRC with companies knowing that there was a strong possibility that we would lose. Another thing the union only represents the wishes of the workforce they dont come up with these notion's themselves. Comments like these sicken my hole sometimes. Maybe what they're at is part of a different plan and they knew they'd lose but gain ground elsewhere in negotiations


    So the situation never arises where the workers go the union and the union rep says "We should take this to court" And the sheep say "yes"

    Do you think Tesco workers are experts in Employment Law that they could persuade Mandate to force this so far? Mandate are definitely leading this with the workers approval and not the other way around.

    Re: in bold above. If you are a private sector worker you chose who you work for, if you dont like it after a while or the company acts like pr1cks you are free to leave. Don't give me this "I have no where else to go and where will I get a job" And its not that simple. I walked out of a job 18 months ago, I happened to get another job shortly after, I have subsequently left that job because I was offered another job. Life isn't easy but its as easy as you make it.


  • Options
    #51
    fatherted1969
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭fatherted1969


    brandon_flowers wrote: »
    So the situation never arises where the workers go the union and the union rep says "We should take this to court" And the sheep say "yes"

    Do you think Tesco workers are experts in Employment Law that they could persuade Mandate to force this so far? Mandate are definitely leading this with the workers approval and not the other way around.

    Re: in bold above. If you are a private sector worker you chose who you work for, if you dont like it after a while or the company acts like pr1cks you are free to leave. Don't give me this "I have no where else to go and where will I get a job" And its not that simple. I walked out of a job 18 months ago, I happened to get another job shortly after, I have subsequently left that job because I was offered another job. Life isn't easy but its as easy as you make it.

    My experience of working with employers as a union rep is yes sometimes you would know your going to lose your case but at least afterwards management knew that the workers and union were not going to be pushed around. Plenty of employers out there at the moment using this recession to change peoples terms of contracts so they can ride them as well. I'm also like yourself and have changed employment as well, i'm back working for the last year and get my contract renewed every month. Is that fair or should i be glad to be working at all. They've changed the job title for any new people that have started working there the last year or so and we're on half the saleries of our co workers. Is that fair or should i be glad to be working at all. Its an awful pity we dont have Mandate in my job cos they'd be getting plenty of use


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    It's the greatest slight of hand the right wing ever pulled off getting normal people to go against Unions. Well, that and tricking folk into thinking Reagan was a good president.


  • Options
    #53
    brandon_flowers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭brandon_flowers


    It has nothing to do with glad to be working at all. You obviously dont like your job and/or the companies way of running the place so you stay or you quit. I'm not trying to berate you or belittle you by saying that because I have no idea of your personal circumstances. All I can say is companies don't make profit, their employees make them their profit so in effect you are a profit making tool. It can be dressed up any which way you like but profit comes first and employees come a distant second.

    I got screwed twice by two different employers in Ireland, the first time I was in dread of my life of quitting after 3 years and several pay cuts, the second time it was instinctive after the first pay cut.

    I fully agree with unions are good in some circumstances, (so you dont get screwed) but if you agree with the company and sign their contracts your not helping yourself.

    There was a brilliant post on the previous page by a Union Rep about how the Unions should work, but that is not remotely near how they work in Ireland.


  • Options
    #54
    fatherted1969
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭fatherted1969


    brandon_flowers wrote: »
    It has nothing to do with glad to be working at all. You obviously dont like your job and/or the companies way of running the place so you stay or you quit. I'm not trying to berate you or belittle you by saying that because I have no idea of your personal circumstances. All I can say is companies don't make profit, their employees make them their profit so in effect you are a profit making tool. It can be dressed up any which way you like but profit comes first and employees come a distant second.

    I got screwed twice by two different employers in Ireland, the first time I was in dread of my life of quitting after 3 years and several pay cuts, the second time it was instinctive after the first pay cut.

    I fully agree with unions are good in some circumstances, (so you dont get screwed) but if you agree with the company and sign their contracts your not helping yourself.

    There was a brilliant post on the previous page by a Union Rep about how the Unions should work, but that is not remotely near how they work in Ireland.
    On the contrary i love my work i'm in the intellectual disability sector and loving it but the point i was trying to make (probably badly) is that sometimes its necessery to have a union to protect your rights as an employee. I've had to do a one year placement on social welfare rates before i got the opportunity to get a position within the organisation. Dont get me wrong i just sometimes feel that employer's take the opportunity to change the normal terms and conditions of employment and union's are there to help


  • Options
    #55
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Gummy Panda wrote: »
    Some unions pick little fights they can win so they look like they're doing something and can justify their monthly payments.

    They certainly don't do themselves any favours a lot lately more so.


  • Options
    #56
    flanders1979
    Closed Accounts Posts: 638 ✭✭✭flanders1979


    Unions are great for keeping useless cnuts in a job.


  • Options
    #57
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    flanders1979 wrote: »
    Unions are great for keeping useless cnuts in a job.

    I think you find that is more than likly the contract they are on. I say this is all the pre 96ers having a fit cause they have to drive an extra mile. I doubt any of the current Tesco contracted staff have any problem. Some pre 96ers are only short of a clause in there contract saying someone else should work for them while they sit at home.


  • Options
    #58
    smallerthanyou
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭smallerthanyou


    Unreal the difference the old Quinnsworth staff contracts compared to the newbies in Tesco. And I really really hated paying the union. It's compulsary and that mini-amount coming out weekly would have made a difference to little-college me.


  • Options
    #59
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    smallerthanyou wrote: »
    Unreal the difference the old Quinnsworth staff contracts compared to the newbies in Tesco. And I really really hated paying the union. It's compulsary and that mini-amount coming out weekly would have made a difference to little-college me.

    The pay they are on the is outrageous. The people I work along side do the exact same job come out with near 700 a week for 35 hours work. I come out with around 400. No wonder the country is up **** creek, what looneys were signing off these contracts back in the 90s ?


  • Options
    #60
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Ah another typical AH union rant.

    rabble.....rabble.....rabble.....unions.....dirty commie b*stards.....rabble

    [UNRELATED]..RABBLE.....RABBLE.....PUBLIC SERVICE UNIONS....spawn of Satan...rabble...[/UNRELATED]

    The unions didn't win, so what exactly did they get away with? Taking a very weak case to court....happens all the time. At least we have a Labour court where there is the opportunity for a sensible resolution to be proposed before unneccesary strike action.

    Personally I'm rather ambivalent towards unions, never been a member of any but I do see the neccessity of them, especially when dealing with companies the size of Tesco, who wouldn't think twice about running roughshod over worker rights given half a chance. I also feel uncomfortable regarding the massive political power they wield, in Ireland and especially in the UK where I am now.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    tails_naf
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭tails_naf


    flanders1979 wrote: »
    Unions are great for keeping useless cnuts in a job.

    Never a truer word spoken. I'm not saying everyone they keep in a job is in this category - far from it - but I don't see why they insist on protecting the useless.

    My father is a small business owner who employs a few workers and subcontracts to the council. One recently decided to join a union (and this one guy is as lazy as it comes). A few days later my father gets a call from a SIPTU man, saying he wants to meet him to discuss increasing the pay/conditions of this employee. My father said its a no-go as he's barely keeping afloat as it is. Union man says (threateningly) 'I wonder what the council would think of what you are paying your workers' - and my father said 'I don't give a f**k what the council would think. If you want me meet me, I'll bring you up to the county manager and you can explain to him what he needs to pay me so [worker] can get the increased rate' - and of course the union man hand nothing to say, so backed down.

    The crazy thing is - this was all following a previous call where my father broke down exactly the hourly rate he gets paid for this worker - minus tax, insurance, machine-cost, fuel, public liability, pension, etc - after all that is taken out, the salary being paid is all that can be paid - yet the SIPTU man still thought he should try pressure my father. Ignoring the economic realities as usual and pushing companies to the brink. I'm glad my father stood up to it.

    I agree with unions in theory. What we have in this country by and large is doing more harm than good by encouraging mediocrity and demanding top dollar for it, and it has certainly cost many jobs by hurting competitiveness.


Advertisement