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Dimitris Christoulas, at 9am took his own life in the middle of Athens

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24

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    #32
    staker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭staker


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    How desperate do you have to be when that is your only option? He chose that over rummaging in bins looking for scraps and handouts and losing what dignity he had left.

    He was a brave man and I hope he rests in peace.

    You say brave, a brave man wouldn't take his own life.
    Suicide is never a means to an end in his situation. If he had mental issues or suffered from depression or whatnot then I couldn't even begin to comprehend his reasons.
    But to take his own life to keep his dignity? Nah,I believe no matter what hole you find yourself in in life you gotta deal with it and rise above it.


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    #33
    John Doe1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    You want Greece to take up arms and conquer all the known world?

    To be fair the known world in greek times was the med and asia so its a lot more realistic:)


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    #34
    John Doe1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    staker wrote: »
    You say brave, a brave man wouldn't take his own life.
    Suicide is never a means to an end in his situation. If he had mental issues or suffered from depression or whatnot then I couldn't even begin to comprehend his reasons.
    But to take his own life to keep his dignity? Nah,I believe no matter what hole you find yourself in in life you gotta deal with it and rise above it.

    Suicide is an option always if you feel you have nothing left no live for or no dignity left. Its very easy for you to say something like that because you have never been without hope


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    #35
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Awaits Greek government coming out and claiming he had a long history of mental illness...........
    Calm the proles etc.


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    #36
    DELTATIP
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭DELTATIP


    To be honest two years I thought with the illigal organisation s and available weapons in this country ie. pistols / rifles /nail bombs we hear about -I thought some of the headlining figures would have been done in.
    -I always thought the situation was that dark where taken money from the poor and keeping the rich in what they were accustomed to was a recipe for a diaster but you what i was wrong - life continues nobody died.


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    #37
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    At 77 he would have been old enough to have some memories of the war and the starvation in it's aftermath, a vicious civil war and the couple in the late 60s. So hee would have been no stranger to really hard times and perhaps to see things taking such a turn for the worse again was more than he could take. All speculation though.


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    #38
    johnners2981
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭johnners2981


    staker wrote: »
    Nah,I believe no matter what hole you find yourself in in life you gotta deal with it and rise above it.

    I imagine he has tried for the last few months/years and eventually had enough.

    Can't see many options for a 77 year old who has to eat out of garbage cans to stay alive, poor man


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    #39
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭touts


    cml387 wrote: »
    Poor guy.

    Notice he puts the blame where it lies, at his own government. Not "The Germans" as some in this thread seem to imply.

    From wikipedia:
    Georgios Tsolakoglou (Greek: Γεώργιος Τσολάκογλου; Rentina, Karditsa, April 1886 - Athens, May 22, 1948) was a Greek military officer who became the first Prime Minister of the Greek collaborationist government during the Axis Occupation in 1941-1942.


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    #40
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Anyone think that the day may come when this happens in Ireland?

    it is happening every day, just doesn't make the news.


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    #41
    staker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭staker


    John Doe1 wrote: »
    Suicide is an option always if you feel you have nothing left no live for or no dignity left. Its very easy for you to say something like that because you have never been without hope

    That's a cheap price you put on life. It should never even be thought of as an option.

    As for your claim that I haven't been without hope, no I haven't. Nor will I ever be. I also read it in a Morgan Freeman tone.


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    #42
    pragmatic1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    staker wrote: »
    That's a cheap price you put on life. It should never even be thought of as an option.

    As for your claim that I haven't been without hope, no I haven't. Nor will I ever be. I also read it in a Morgan Freeman tone.
    Of course suicide should be an option. There are worse things than death.


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    #43
    forfuxsake
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭forfuxsake


    staker wrote: »
    You say brave, a brave man wouldn't take his own life.
    Suicide is never a means to an end in his situation. If he had mental issues or suffered from depression or whatnot then I couldn't even begin to comprehend his reasons.
    But to take his own life to keep his dignity? Nah,I believe no matter what hole you find yourself in in life you gotta deal with it and rise above it.

    Not so easy to say when you are 77 and hungry. I had an American friend whose father at 81 was faced with selling his house and using his life savings to pay for his medical care. Fcuk that $hit he thought and took his own life. Left a note saying he was too proud to have worked all his life only to see his savings pissed away on trying to avoid the inevitable. This doesn't compare with a younger man with depression who isn't thinking clearly.

    This guy was 77 and didn't have enough money to live and my hear goes out to him and his family. He was not a coward because he wasn't brave enough to spend the last few years of his life in misery, poverty and shame. My heart goes out to him and his family.


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    #44
    staker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭staker


    That's a different scenario,would that not be classified as euthanasia due to the medical grounds?
    Swings and roundabouts though. Yes this greek man fell on hard times-he commited suicide, but my fundamentals on the issue are totally different to a lot of posters. He should've had other options.I'll bow out as it's getting off topic.


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    #45
    forfuxsake
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭forfuxsake


    staker wrote: »
    That's a different scenario,would that not be classified as euthanasia due to the medical grounds?
    Swings and roundabouts though. Yes this greek man fell on hard times-he commited suicide, but my fundamentals on the issue are totally different to a lot of posters. He should've had other options.I'll bow out as it's getting off topic.

    Couldn't agree more.


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    #46
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    What exactly do the Greeks want? Tax evasion is a national sport, there are hundreds of thousands of civil servants with little to do, and they pay themselves too much, all financed by borrowings. Now that Greece has defaulted borrowers aren't willing to lend any more, so the Greeks are forced to crawl off to the rest of Europe and beg for a bailout, all the while moaning about how they are being forced to accept "austerity" as a consequence.

    I'm sorry for the man, but the only "traitors" in Greece are the electorate who vote in politicians who bribe the electorate with borrowed money - much like our own electorate.


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    #47
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,256 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    pacquiao wrote: »
    The Tsolakoglou government has annihilated all traces for my survival, which was based on a very dignified pension that I alone paid for 35 years with no help from the state



    Did he work for the state? How did they take his pension?
    I saw a report about an elderly Greek gentleman that didn't have enough pension money to pay for his medical prescriptions.:( He was working selling groceries on the motorway to make ends meet and still not making enough to pay his bills. It’s sad but he was part of the problem as he was fuelling the black-market over there. They need massive social change (here too of a different kind) to get things on track.
    We are relatively lucky here no one is starving. Being in debt is not the same as not being able to feed yourself.


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    #48
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Funny how the greeks economy was apparently a basket case but it actually worked until they rail-roaded it into the eurozone.

    Anyway its all their own fault, nothing to do with the single market; ein market, ein euro, ein volk as we like to say in Berlin.


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    #49
    mezdupmaiden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭mezdupmaiden


    bnt wrote: »
    So, pacquiao, do you have an opinion of your own, or do you cut-and-paste that too?

    I see you haven't added yours:rolleyes:


    Very sad and to be honest at least greece are standing up to their government.

    RIP


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    #50
    Captain Slow IRL
    Registered Users Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭Captain Slow IRL


    mezdupmaiden wrote: »
    .......Very sad and to be honest at least greece are standing up to their government.......

    Would have been more effective to have put a bullet through one of the politicians heads, that might have sent a more productive message.

    I don't understand how you can hear and read about innocent people gunned down for no reason in this country and no-one's had the balls to go shoot the likes of those bastards Ahern or Flynn?!


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    #51
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    staker wrote: »
    That's a different scenario,would that not be classified as euthanasia due to the medical grounds?
    Swings and roundabouts though. Yes this greek man fell on hard times-he commited suicide, but my fundamentals on the issue are totally different to a lot of posters. He should've had other options.I'll bow out as it's getting off topic.

    Yes, he should of have more options. The problem is that he didn't.

    At 77 years old it's doubtless that this man had seen a lot of Greece since the end of the war, and like it says, he was forced to eat from bins to live.

    The sad part is that many many people across Europe are also reaching the same position, and not just at his age, and have been committing suicide.

    It is a shame that he went so far as to commit suicide, but we can only hope that now the various Governments involved will actually change things for the people, and not just themselves.


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    #52
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    hmmm wrote: »
    What exactly do the Greeks want? Tax evasion is a national sport, there are hundreds of thousands of civil servants with little to do, and they pay themselves too much, all financed by borrowings. Now that Greece has defaulted borrowers aren't willing to lend any more, so the Greeks are forced to crawl off to the rest of Europe and beg for a bailout, all the while moaning about how they are being forced to accept "austerity" as a consequence.

    I'm sorry for the man, but the only "traitors" in Greece are the electorate who vote in politicians who bribe the electorate with borrowed money - much like our own electorate.

    And this is an elderly gentlemans fault? How???

    Did you miss the part where he said he, and he alone paid for his pension?
    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Did he work for the state? How did they take his pension?
    I saw a report about an elderly Greek gentleman that didn't have enough pension money to pay for his medical prescriptions.:( He was working selling groceries on the motorway to make ends meet and still not making enough to pay his bills. It’s sad but he was part of the problem as he was fuelling the black-market over there. They need massive social change (here too of a different kind) to get things on track.
    We are relatively lucky here no one is starving. Being in debt is not the same as not being able to feed yourself.

    He was part of the problem because he is now supplementing his pension by selling groceries, because he can't afford to buy food and pay his medical bills? How does that work?

    I honestly can not believe the lengths that people will go to to justify the austerity measures.

    The truth is, the Greek Government made choices, the elite made choices and the poor people suffer the consequences.

    I cannot understand the lack of empathy.
    These are two elderly gentlemen. One committed suicide rather than survive by rummaging in bins for food. The other is doing his best to survive by trying to supplement his income.

    What the hell is the world coming to when such people are blamed for the financial crisis? Where is the evidence that proves they are responsible for the financial crisis?

    On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence of irresponsible lending, irresponsible financial planning by Governments - yet it's all the fault of two elderly Gentlemen who have fallen on hard times?

    Jesus H. Christ! I despair for humanity sometimes!:mad:


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    #53
    mezdupmaiden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭mezdupmaiden


    Captain Slow IRL wrote: »
    Would have been more effective to have put a bullet through one of the politicians heads, that might have sent a more productive message.

    I don't understand how you can hear and read about innocent people gunned down for no reason in this country and no-one's had the balls to go shoot the likes of those bastards Ahern or Flynn?!

    Wouldnt I bloody love to. but I'd prefer to hit them where it hurts, the pocket, you kill them one of their beloved offspring would get the money..disclaimer...that they never had btw.


    Ive clearly thought too hard about this:o


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    #54
    The Waltzing Consumer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    Noreen1 wrote: »
    And this is an elderly gentlemans fault? How???

    Did you miss the part where he said he, and he alone paid for his pension?

    I don't think that will be true. Greece had a really messed up pension system for years where people could retire at 50 or 55 depending on gender on a full pension PAID BY THE STATE. This covers 40% of their countries workforce.

    So imagine hundreds of thousands of people retiring at 50 or 55, living longer lives now then ever before and getting their full work pension paid by the state.

    Messed up


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    #55
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,178 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Sad story but it will have zero effect.


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    #56
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Noreen1 wrote: »
    And this is an elderly gentlemans fault? How???

    Did you miss the part where he said he, and he alone paid for his pension?



    He was part of the problem because he is now supplementing his pension by selling groceries, because he can't afford to buy food and pay his medical bills? How does that work?

    I honestly can not believe the lengths that people will go to to justify the austerity measures.

    The truth is, the Greek Government made choices, the elite made choices and the poor people suffer the consequences.

    I cannot understand the lack of empathy.
    These are two elderly gentlemen. One committed suicide rather than survive by rummaging in bins for food. The other is doing his best to survive by trying to supplement his income.

    What the hell is the world coming to when such people are blamed for the financial crisis? Where is the evidence that proves they are responsible for the financial crisis?

    On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence of irresponsible lending, irresponsible financial planning by Governments - yet it's all the fault of two elderly Gentlemen who have fallen on hard times?

    Jesus H. Christ! I despair for humanity sometimes!:mad:
    A little over the top, aren't you? People are pointing out that the ENTIRE country of Greece had a part to play, not just two old men. I'm sure the two old men were eligable voters. Who did they put into power? Even little things like that play a part.

    As for the comment on the black-market, you must know the phrase "Take care of the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves"? If everyone made what little money they could from illegal means, then there'd be no money going back into the country. Potatoeman was merely pointing this out. The next line he wrote, you completely ignored: "They need massive social change...". He wasn't saying it is only this man who is to blame, he's saying that the entire system needs to be rebuilt.

    Highly emotive statements like "The truth is, the Greek Government made choices, the elite made choices and the poor people suffer the consequences." is making it seem like all the people of Greece who isn't a fictional "Elite" are completely innocent of any blame.


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    #57
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,256 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Noreen1 wrote: »

    He was part of the problem because he is now supplementing his pension by selling groceries, because he can't afford to buy food and pay his medical bills? How does that work?

    I'm not blaming him it's the circumstance he's in and it's unlikely to change any time soon. It's a form of tax evasion and fuels the problem as it’s so widespread.


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    #58
    Pottler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Pottler


    hmmm wrote: »
    What exactly do the Irish want? Tax evasion is a national sport, there are hundreds of thousands of civil servants with little to do, and they pay themselves too much, all financed by borrowings. When Ireland has defaulted borrowers won't be willing to lend any more, so the Irishs will be forced to crawl off to the rest of Europe and beg for another bailout, all the while moaning about how they are being forced to accept "austerity" as a consequence.

    I'm sorry for the man, but the only "traitors" in Ireland are the electorate who vote in politicians who bribe the electorate with borrowed money - much like the Greek electorate.
    FYP, it took a fair bit of fixing. Don't rant and gloat when yous in the same boat..just sitting further back.


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    #59
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Anyone think that the day may come when this happens in Ireland?
    As others have noted suicide because of financial pressures are happening here already. I know of two men who took their own lives because of the pressures they felt they couldn't cope with.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #60
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    I think the point is that after nearly four years of austerity living standards in Greece have declined greatly, and all they have to look forward to is another decade of the same - and that's if everything goes to plan. Greeks could be forgiven for despairing at the thought, particularly young Greeks who have had nothing to do with the crisis. And people such as this man had nothing to look forward to but further pension cuts, and deeper poverty in his later years. Suicide is never the answer but despair is a terrible thing, my heart goes out to people in that situation.


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    #61
    Pottler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Pottler


    I believe that there is a lot of delusion and optimism wandering around Ireland at the moment. Businesses are failing like dominoes, unemployment is rising and rising despite the (absolute) b0ll0x figures issued by the govt. The rate of decline is rapidly increasing and we DO NOT have a rosy near future. We will be where Greece is and worse, in time. A man said to me the other day "Jasus Pottler, get work off NAMA, they don't have a clue and are waay overpaying and getting riddenfor absolutely everything - they're the only ones dishing out work at the moment". He's a big contractor btw. So, if NAMA is our great hope, hah. The real businesses here in Ireland are clinging by their teeth. Almost all of the indigenous pre-boom employers local to me have closed or are on the verge of closing. The future is not bright.


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