Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Irish Runner

Options
1246

Comments

  • Options
    #92
    thirtyfoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    RayCun wrote: »
    All of the covers of Irish Runner magazine should have photos of current Irish World Champion runners?

    As I said maybe twice already, don't care what they put on cover of IR. What I do worry about is the concept that our sporting future will be inspired by punters.

    To clarify on the pushy parents, I am distinguishing between the Woods and McIlroy pushy parenting and parents who encourage kids and tell them it's actually ok to want to win. Big difference.

    Didn't we see this 'it's more about just competing' sh8te in English schools in past few years. Think it backfired and has been toned down now with proper competition being encouraged again.

    For me it's simple, teach your kids it ok to want to win, fairly and with respect. This is different to earmarking your kid for a career in sport aged four.


  • Options
    #93
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    thirtyfoot wrote: »
    As I said maybe twice already, don't care what they put on cover of IR. What I do worry about is the concept that our sporting future will be inspired by punters.

    I'm just pointing out the problem with looking for kids to be inspired by Irish world champions instead.
    And nobody is saying that some kid is going to think "I want to be an Olympic athlete because of that woman who lost weight and ran 3.30". We're saying that people like that could be an inspiration to adults starting to run, and if adults start to run, and get interested in athletics (because Irish Runner, this forum, and clubs around the country contain a mix of both) that's great for the future of the sport because it means kids are more likely to take up running, and be encouraged to take it seriously.
    thirtyfoot wrote: »
    For me it's simple, teach your kids it ok to want to win, fairly and with respect.

    I think we all agree on that.


  • Options
    #94
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    RayCun wrote: »
    I'm just pointing out the problem with looking for kids to be inspired by Irish world champions instead.
    And nobody is saying that some kid is going to think "I want to be an Olympic athlete because of that woman who lost weight and ran 3.30". We're saying that people like that could be an inspiration to adults starting to run, and if adults start to run, and get interested in athletics (because Irish Runner, this forum, and clubs around the country contain a mix of both) that's great for the future of the sport because it means kids are more likely to take up running, and be encouraged to take it seriously.

    You have a point but I'm not sure it's that simple. Parents may become inspired by the 3:30 marathon runner, but what will they be inspired to do? More than likely mass participation road races. 5k's, 10k's, Marathons etc. I'm not sure if this would be the type of running suitable for kids. Kids are better off doing track and field, getting a broad introduction to the sport and given a variety and a chance to try out all sprints, jumps, throws, middle distance etc, which is very much important at keeping people at a young age interested. I don't think running 5k's and 10k's is hugely appealing to kids.

    If the parent who became inspired to run actually joined an athletics club (not just a running club) then your point would be valid, but if the parent just went and trained solo, like many people do, then I don't see how this would get the kids into the sport. We've already established here that many people view running as a weight loss/ keep fit tool and not a sport, so not sure how somebody taking it up for this reason will directly translate into their kids taking part in the sport.


  • Options
    #95
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    04072511 wrote: »
    You have a point but I'm not sure it's that simple. Parents may become inspired by the 3:30 marathon runner, but what will they be inspired to do? More than likely mass participation road races. 5k's, 10k's, Marathons etc. I'm not sure if this would be the type of running suitable for kids. Kids are better off doing track and field, getting a broad introduction to the sport and given a variety and a chance to try out all sprints, jumps, throws, middle distance etc, which is very much important at keeping people at a young age interested. I don't think running 5k's and 10k's is hugely appealing to kids.

    If the parent who became inspired to run actually joined an athletics club (not just a running club) then your point would be valid, but if the parent just went and trained solo, like many people do, then I don't see how this would get the kids into the sport. We've already established here that many people view running as a weight loss/ keep fit tool and not a sport, so not sure how somebody taking it up for this reason will directly translate into their kids taking part in the sport.

    But this is why, as I said above, its important that venues like Irish Runner, like this forum, like clubs, like the AAI, are supportive of people who are starting out as runners. Who tell the fat mams that they are welcome in the running/athletics community and encourage them to get involved, rather than worrying about them dragging down the average times :rolleyes:

    Even if parents never join a club, if they're out running themselves to keep fit they're going to look more favourably on athletics clubs, and be more encouraging of their kids. But if you can get the parents in... it's more funds for the club, it's more people to help out with coaching, and the kids are much more likely to stay involved and take competition seriously.


  • Options
    #96
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,133 ✭✭✭plodder


    It's very hard to draw a line on what constitutes pushy parents though. It probably depends on whether a child does or doesn't want to be pushed. I remember parents when I was a teen who pushed their kid really hard at their sport, to the extent that they took on huge debt to fund it, and also that other avenues in life may have been closed off to the kid. Most others thought they were mad and he didn't achieve the level of success they may have wanted, but I don't believe there are any regrets on anyone's part.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #97
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    RayCun wrote: »
    But this is why, as I said above, its important that venues like Irish Runner, like this forum, like clubs, like the AAI, are supportive of people who are starting out as runners. Who tell the fat mams that they are welcome in the running/athletics community and encourage them to get involved, rather than worrying about them dragging down the average times :rolleyes:

    Even if parents never join a club, if they're out running themselves to keep fit they're going to look more favourably on athletics clubs, and be more encouraging of their kids. But if you can get the parents in... it's more funds for the club, it's more people to help out with coaching, and the kids are much more likely to stay involved and take competition seriously.

    But straight from the horses mouth, you yourself, on many occasions have said that you do not see a link between what you do (run long long distances on the roads) to stuff like sprints, long jump, shot putt etc. There are many more like you. Lots of people simply do not see running as athletics. I'd say 50% of people running in a fun run wouldn't know the distance of an outdoor track. Unless the parent sees what he/she is doing as "athletics" rather than as a weight loss/keep fit exercise then I don't see this involvement feeding down to the kids at any sort of a significant level. I just dont see how said parent running to keep fit will inspire them to get their children into the starting blocks to run a 400m, or into the cage with a discuss or hammer in their hands.


  • Options
    #98
    Woddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    http://alanahadley.com/

    Just because a kid has a pushy parent does not mean they are not enjoying it.


  • Options
    #99
    MrCreosote
    Registered Users Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭MrCreosote


    Woddle wrote: »
    http://alanahadley.com/

    Just because a kid has a pushy parent does not mean they are not enjoying it.

    Where do her parents come across as pushy? Just looks like what we were talking about- kids wanting to do what their parent do. I'd imagine it was more like her mother finally giving in and letting her do a 5k after 6 years of pestering...


  • Options
    #100
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    04072511 wrote: »
    But straight from the horses mouth, you yourself, on many occasions have said that you do not see a link between what you do (run long long distances on the roads) to stuff like sprints, long jump, shot putt etc.

    And yet I joined a club, because while I have no interest in training for sprints, jumps, or throwing, I am interested in training for road races. Most clubs that I know of will have more adults training for that kind of distance than for track & field.
    04072511 wrote: »
    ...I just dont see how said parent running to keep fit will inspire them to get their children into the starting blocks to run a 400m, or into the cage with a discuss or hammer in their hands.

    Because if the parent joins a club, even if the parent only does road running, their kid will be trained in sprinting, throwing, and jumping.


  • Options
    #101
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    MrCreosote wrote: »
    Where do her parents come across as pushy? Just looks like what we were talking about- kids wanting to do what their parent do. I'd imagine it was more like her mother finally giving in and letting her do a 5k after 6 years of pestering...

    Yeah, look at the quote
    I have been running regularly since I was 6 years old, when I decided I wanted to run a 5k race with my mom.

    Parent runs, kid wants to run.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #102
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    RayCun wrote: »
    And yet I joined a club, because while I have no interest in training for sprints, jumps, or throwing, I am interested in training for road races. Most clubs that I know of will have more adults training for that kind of distance than for track & field.



    Because if the parent joins a club, even if the parent only does road running, their kid will be trained in sprinting, throwing, and jumping.

    Yes, but as I said above, this is all well and good for maybe somebody like yourself who sees running as a sport. But what about those who see it as a weight loss activity? These people are a lot less likely to join a club. In fact many people who post here on boards aren't even in a club. If the parent doesn't join a club, then the kids wont. Somebody who is inspired by somebody who has lost weight are a lot less likely to join athletics clubs IMO. Somebody in their mid 30's who was inspired to take up running by Paula's 2:15:25 on the other hand..


  • Options
    #103
    Woddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    RayCun wrote: »
    Yeah, look at the quote


    Parent runs, kid wants to run.

    :D
    Now go google her dad


  • Options
    #104
    Woddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    MrCreosote wrote: »
    Where do her parents come across as pushy? Just looks like what we were talking about- kids wanting to do what their parent do. I'd imagine it was more like her mother finally giving in and letting her do a 5k after 6 years of pestering...

    I got distracted by the baby, I meant to do this

    pushy supportive


  • Options
    #105
    MrCreosote
    Registered Users Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭MrCreosote


    Woddle wrote: »
    I got distracted by the baby

    The baby was looking to go out for a run, no doubt, and maybe pick up a copy of the Irish Runner on the way home?


  • Options
    #106
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    04072511 wrote: »
    Yes, but as I said above, this is all well and good for maybe somebody like yourself who sees running as a sport. But what about those who see it as a weight loss activity? These people are a lot less likely to join a club. In fact many people who post here on boards aren't even in a club. If the parent doesn't join a club, then the kids wont. Somebody who is inspired by somebody who has lost weight are a lot less likely to join athletics clubs IMO. Somebody in their mid 30's who was inspired to take up running by Paula's 2:15:25 on the other hand..


    There is one group of people in their mid 30's who had no interest in running until they heard about Paula Radcliffe's world record, but went out the next day to find their nearest athletics club (with a track! track is important!) to sign up.

    There is another group who took up running in their mid 30's motivated by a desire to lose weight, and/or to remain active after they dropped out of another sport (football, GAA, hockey, whatever). Some of them go on to run in races, and some of them go on to join clubs (sometimes the other way around - joining the club comes before running in races)

    My experience of the people who go and join clubs (from this forum, and from the people in my own club) is that they are more likely to belong to the second group than the first. Possibly because it would be difficult to fill a relay team with the members of the first group.


  • Options
    #107
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    RayCun wrote: »
    There is one group of people in their mid 30's who had no interest in running until they heard about Paula Radcliffe's world record, but went out the next day to find their nearest athletics club (with a track! track is important!) to sign up.

    There is another group who took up running in their mid 30's motivated by a desire to lose weight, and/or to remain active after they dropped out of another sport (football, GAA, hockey, whatever). Some of them go on to run in races, and some of them go on to join clubs (sometimes the other way around - joining the club comes before running in races)

    My experience of the people who go and join clubs (from this forum, and from the people in my own club) is that they are more likely to belong to the second group than the first. Possibly because it would be difficult to fill a relay team with the members of the first group.

    Yes but how many people in your standard fun run are part of a club? Most are not. If the parent isn't in the club then don't expect them to get their kids into one. It all boils down to what the parent considers running to be: If he/she consider it to be a sport, and a constant drive for PB's, high placings in races etc then the kids are more likely to follow suit. If on the otherhand, the parent sees running as a way of shedding 20kg's, then I do not believe this is something that will inspire kids. Kids don't look up to that weight loss stuff IMHO. Putting Hanah Nolan on the front of IR is tagetting the 2nd group, and reinforcing many people's thoughts on what running is: a weight loss tool/ keep fit exercise, and not actually a sport.


  • Options
    #108
    gerard65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,612 ✭✭✭gerard65


    The IR has to walk a tight line. It needs to make money so its has to appeal to a large customer base, it also tries to appeal to the club athlete. Like the other big sellers - runners world, etc, it knows their are alot of mid - back packers out there who would find their cover story interesting. Its a difficult balancing act. In fairness, the IR covers the domestic club scene very well.


  • Options
    #109
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    04072511 wrote: »
    Yes but how many people in your standard fun run are part of a club? Most are not. If the parent isn't in the club then don't expect them to get their kids into one. It all boils down to what the parent considers running to be: If he/she consider it to be a sport, and a constant drive for PB's, high placings in races etc then the kids are more likely to follow suit. If on the otherhand, the parent sees running as a way of shedding 20kg's, then I do not believe this is something that will inspire kids.

    A small fraction of runners in any road race are club members.
    Rather than shouting at them THIS ISN'T PROPER RUNNING YOU ARE ALL SO ****ING SLOW DON'T YOU WATCH THE DIAMOND LEAGUE YOU ARE RUINING ATHLETICS
    it might be more productive to try getting them involved in clubs.
    By having fit4life groups. By producing a magazine that combines coverage of elite athletics with running tips for beginners. By congratulating on them taking steps to improve their fitness, rather than moaning about them.

    And there are plenty of runners in my club who are more concerned with keeping fit than getting PBs - who take some persuading to enter races at all. They all bring something to the club, and I'm happy to have them as members, I'm glad they feel welcome running in a group rather than running on their own.

    (Incidentally, one woman joined our club in the last couple of weeks. She'll be beating me in plenty of races to come, but she's barely raced at all, and I think only runs 'to keep fit'. She didn't know how fast she was, and probably wouldn't have joined if she hadn't seen all the slower runners in our club and known she'd be welcome)


  • Options
    #110
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    RayCun wrote: »
    A small fraction of runners in any road race are club members.
    Rather than shouting at them THIS ISN'T PROPER RUNNING YOU ARE ALL SO ****ING SLOW DON'T YOU WATCH THE DIAMOND LEAGUE YOU ARE RUINING ATHLETICS
    it might be more productive to try getting them involved in clubs.
    By having fit4life groups. By producing a magazine that combines coverage of elite athletics with running tips for beginners. By congratulating on them taking steps to improve their fitness, rather than moaning about them.

    And there are plenty of runners in my club who are more concerned with keeping fit than getting PBs - who take some persuading to enter races at all. They all bring something to the club, and I'm happy to have them as members, I'm glad they feel welcome running in a group rather than running on their own.

    (Incidentally, one woman joined our club in the last couple of weeks. She'll be beating me in plenty of races to come, but she's barely raced at all, and I think only runs 'to keep fit'. She didn't know how fast she was, and probably wouldn't have joined if she hadn't seen all the slower runners in our club and known she'd be welcome)

    Don't get me wrong. I'm all for inclusiveness. The more people of all levels in clubs the better.

    Just saying that I don't see those who are not in clubs as being likely to get their kids into one. The majority of fun runners are not in clubs.


  • Options
    #111
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    04072511 wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong. I'm all for inclusiveness. The more people of all levels in clubs the better.

    Just saying that I don't see those who are not in clubs as being likely to get their kids into one. The majority of fun runners are not in clubs.

    Right, so we both want to get fun runners to join clubs.

    Which do you think is more persuasive to a fun runner?
    "join a club! Paula Radcliffe and Derval O'Rourke are both club runners!"

    or

    "join a club! Hannah Nolan is a club runner!"

    (I don't know if she is, she's just an example)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #112
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    RayCun wrote: »
    Right, so we both want to get fun runners to join clubs.

    Which do you think is more persuasive to a fun runner?
    "join a club! Paula Radcliffe and Derval O'Rourke are both club runners!"

    or

    "join a club! Hannah Nolan is a club runner!"

    (I don't know if she is, she's just an example)

    A lot of people would have no interest in Hannah Nolan. She would appeal to obese/overweight people, but these would be in the category of people who don't look at running as a sport. Hannah Nolan makes no difference to my life for example (in fact I had to google who she is at the start of the thread), and there would be plenty of others like me. Derval and Paula are much more likely to inspire a healthy person to become the best they can be than Hannah Nolan.


  • Options
    #113
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    04072511 wrote: »
    A lot of people would have no interest in Hannah Nolan. She would appeal to obese/overweight people, but these would be in the category of people who don't look at running as a sport.

    We're talking about fun runners, right?

    "How to get people who follow elite athletics to join an athletics club" is a different problem.


  • Options
    #114
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    RayCun wrote: »
    We're talking about fun runners, right?

    "How to get people who follow elite athletics to join an athletics club" is a different problem.

    As I said a few times now, Hannah Nolan appeals to those who don't care about running as a sport. She appeals to those who want to lose weight. Derval and Paula are the type of people that can inspire kids and adults to perform to their capabilities; Hannah Nolan can inspire people to get off the couch and stop being lazy. One is a sport, the other is exercise. A parent who is motivated by losing weight is unlikely to care enough about running to consider it a sport and join a club, therefore very unlikely that the kids will be part of one, which is what we were discussing.


  • Options
    #115
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    04072511 wrote: »
    As I said a few times now, Hannah Nolan appeals to those who don't care about running as a sport. She appeals to those who want to lose weight. Derval and Paula are the type of people that can inspire kids and adults to perform to their capabilities; Hannah Nolan can inspire people to get off the couch and stop being lazy. One is a sport, the other is exercise. A parent who is motivated by losing weight is unlikely to care enough about running to consider it a sport and join a club, therefore very unlikely that the kids will be part of one, which is what we were discussing.

    Yes, I read all that, and responded already.

    To summarise -
    People who start off motivated by a desire to keep fit and exercise can and do join clubs. They should be encouraged to do so, and welcomed once they are in. For that kind of person, Hannah Nolan (who I'd never heard of before yesterday) is a useful role model. If those people join clubs, their children are more likely to join clubs, and compete.

    Which bit do you disagree with?


  • Options
    #116
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    RayCun wrote: »
    Yes, I read all that, and responded already.

    To summarise -
    People who start off motivated by a desire to keep fit and exercise can and do join clubs. They should be encouraged to do so, and welcomed once they are in. For that kind of person, Hannah Nolan (who I'd never heard of before yesterday) is a useful role model. If those people join clubs, their children are more likely to join clubs, and compete.

    Which bit do you disagree with?

    The bit about Hannah Nolan being a bigger inspiration to people who want to compete to the best of their abilities, and a more important role model for kids than the likes of Derval O'Rourke. Hannah Nolan will drive up the numbers in Mini-marathons perhaps but I don't see how it really benefits running and athletics as a sport in much more than a clutching at straws sort of way.


  • Options
    #117
    Dodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    This discussion has gotten off track a fair bit (no pun intended)

    Niche market magazines like Irish runner cater specifically to 2 sectors; advertisers and subscribers. They might sell less than 200 copies in shops throughout the country, so the cover athlete/picture isn't really important at all

    I'm not denegrating it by calling it niche market BTW. To have survived this long is a testament to all concerned.


  • Options
    #118
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    04072511 wrote: »
    The bit about Hannah Nolan being a bigger inspiration to people who want to compete to the best of their abilities, and a more important role model for kids than the likes of Derval O'Rourke.

    Ah, that make sense. You're disagreeing with the bit I never said.


  • Options
    #119
    AJCOT
    Registered Users Posts: 371 ✭✭AJCOT


    RayCun wrote: »
    Right, so we both want to get fun runners to join clubs.

    Which do you think is more persuasive to a fun runner?
    "join a club! Paula Radcliffe and Derval O'Rourke are both club runners!"

    or

    "join a club! Hannah Nolan is a club runner!"

    (I don't know if she is, she's just an example)

    Hannah Nolan trains and runs for Parnell AC (Rathdrum) & Sli Cualann when outside Wicklow.


  • Options
    #120
    Getonwithit
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭Getonwithit


    This topic went way off the point. Hannah Nolan is entitled to a front cover BUT not in front of Finnoula Britton, Joe Sweeney etc etc..


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #121
    HelenAnne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭HelenAnne


    04072511 wrote: »
    The bit about Hannah Nolan being a bigger inspiration to people who want to compete to the best of their abilities, and a more important role model for kids than the likes of Derval O'Rourke. Hannah Nolan will drive up the numbers in Mini-marathons perhaps but I don't see how it really benefits running and athletics as a sport in much more than a clutching at straws sort of way.

    I agree with ray, and I think there ARE benefits to the sport & to clubs of people being inspired by Hannah to join clubs, if you measure benfits in more ways than breaking records & winning Olympic medals.
    Probably (with possible exceptions) you’re not going to get the next Olympic medallist joining a club through the ‘keep fit’ channels, but in my club lots of the runners who came to running in their thirties and through the Fit 4 Life route would be winning prizes in the O40, O 45 & upwards age categories, would run on club teams for races etc. So clubs can benefit in terms of prizes etc from recreational runners.
    Also, I think a club is about much more than prizes & winners, and who knows how much support, stewarding, tea-making, volunteering etc the less elite people give to clubs. So that’s all positive from a club’s point of view.
    And from the individual’s point of view, I think joining a club, from whatever base-level of fitness you begin, definitely gets runners / joggers more interested in racing & competing, and the support they get from others in the club really spurs them on.
    I suppose I am a ‘get fit’ runner – I started running to run the Mini Marathon for charity and got to like it. I don’t think of myself as an ‘athlete’, but I do think of myself as a ‘runner’; I run because I like it & for fun, not to lose weight.
    Anyway, I joined a club more than a year ago, when I still thought of five miles as a long run, just for the company / camaraderie etc. I wasn’t really on the forums that much then, but if I had been, I think I might have been scared off joining a club by all the ‘fun runner’ versus ‘club runner’ stuff I’ve read online. I just went down to the major race my club hold every year to watch it, asked about a beginners’ group, came down to it a few times & then joined up. Everyone’s been so welcoming & encouraging even though I’m never likely to cover the club in glory. Having other people to run with and having people cheering me on in races and having a club top to wear has made so much difference. I’m a fun runner AND a club runner, and I hope that non club-runners who see mid-pack people like me wearing club tops in races might see that a club can be for them too.
    And back to the original point, I find Irish Runner a bit repetitive (I prefer Runner’s World because it has a better range of articles) but I’d be inspired by both Hannah Nolan and Fionnuala Britton, in different ways. I’d buy it more often if it had less Chi Running and maybe more long articles about exciting races from the past, suggested running routes around the country etc.


Advertisement