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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #6962
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Your tolls have nothing to do with the roads in this country they are put in place to pay for the actual road they are on and are usually collected by the company that built the road and not by the LA's. Generally they have a contract that allows them to collect these tolls over 20 years or so, that way they can recoup some of the costs involved in the construction of these roads throught he PPP Scheme.

    Motor Tax does not specifically cover the construction, maintenance and general upkeep of roads, I think that has been made clear numerous times in this thread, and most people in the country realise that money taken in by Motor Tax does not go straight and solely to the Roads Department to fix the roads. So saying you pay motor tax to use the roads isnt exactly accurate.


    Saying our €100 charge/tax will go toward it is poppy cock too so if you wish to use the above arguement.

    This country is screaming out for a revolution. It's hard to stomach that we've become so spineless.


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    #6963
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Wasting your time Micky, this has been explained countess times, these guys refuse to accept this fact though.



    Welcome back. :cool:

    You guys might make the 1.8 million compliance also.

    Ok then, maybe if you knew the facts as have been pointed out countless times you would realise your wrong.

    Cant believe people still assume their motor tax pays solely for the roads, unreal:rolleyes:


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    #6964
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Saying our €100 charge/tax will go toward it is poppy cock too so if you wish to use the above arguement.

    Not really - it's supposedly earmarked for local authority funding - unlike any of the above.


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    #6965
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    It's hard to stomach that we've become so spineless.

    It's hard to stomach that some of us have become so clueless.


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    #6966
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    This country is screaming out for a revolution.
    The recent GE results don't support this contention, nor do the opinion polls since. If there was another election tomorrow, all indications are that FG/LAB would be reelected.


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    #6967
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    dvpower wrote: »
    The recent GE results don't support this contention, nor do the opinion polls since. If there was another election tomorrow, all indications are that FG/LAB would be reelected.

    Lol, that was a desperate grasp for change by the public.
    Anyone but FF.

    Basically the options were a giant douche or a turd sandwich.

    The turd sandwich won out (in coalition) and delivered a heap of broken promises.

    As for opinion polls......... we'll we can see how unaccurate they have been so far on this property tax lark
    Fifteen percent of people say they will not pay the controversial household charge, according to a newly released poll.
    The Red C poll, carried out for Paddy Power, also found that 24% of homeowners do not know whether they are liable for the €100 charge.

    Sooooooooo accurate.


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    #6968
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    dvpower wrote: »
    The recent GE results don't support this contention, nor do the opinion polls since. If there was another election tomorrow, all indications are that FG/LAB would be reelected.

    Apparently we arent a democracy though so there wont ever be any more elections!!


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    #6969
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    mikom wrote: »
    Lol, that was a desperate grasp for change by the public.
    Anyone but FF.
    And they chose FG/LAB. As they would again.


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    #6970
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    donalg1 wrote: »

    Cant believe people still assume their motor tax pays solely for the roads, unreal:rolleyes:

    If you pay 500 euro motor tax, it makes no difference if you take it from your front pocket, or back pocket.


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    #6971
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm very clear on why I support property taxation. You seem to be struggling to articulate why you oppose it. If anyone has problems with questioning, I'd look a little closer to home.

    You wrongly assume I'm trying to convince you of anything.

    It is of little concern to me what you do.


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    #6972
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    dvpower wrote: »
    And they chose FG/LAB. As they would again.

    A poll tell you that did it.
    What was his name......... Marcin


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    #6973
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    If you pay 500 euro motor tax, it makes no difference if you take it from your front pocket, or back pocket.

    You're not advocating your garden ornament strategy again?


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    #6974
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    You wrongly assume I'm trying to convince you of anything.

    It is of little concern to me what you do.

    Or what goes on in the world, as you say.

    Just making clear to you, who would benefit from a bit more rigour in their questioning. Happy to help!


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    #6975
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    If you pay 500 euro motor tax, it makes no difference if you take it from your front pocket, or back pocket.

    ?


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    #6976
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Saying our €100 charge/tax will go toward it is poppy cock too so if you wish to use the above arguement.

    This country is screaming out for a revolution. It's hard to stomach that we've become so spineless.

    Where did I say it was going to go towards it, all I said was you are wrong in saying your Motor Tax is used solely on roads.


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    #6977
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    donalg1 wrote: »
    ?

    Roads have costs, motoring taxes supply money. If the money from motoring does not go to roads, it is still paid by the motorists. The roads are still maintained.


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    #6978
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Where did I say it was going to go towards it, all I said was you are wrong in saying your Motor Tax is used solely on roads.

    I m not going to pay my charge as the council don't offer me services I don't already pay for, or pay privately for. You asked if I used roads. Why did you ask that?


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    #6979
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Where did I say it was going to go towards it, all I said was you are wrong in saying your Motor Tax is used solely on roads.

    How are roads maintained then?


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    #6980
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Roads have costs, motoring taxes supply money. If the money from motoring does not go to roads, it is still paid by the motorists. The roads are still maintained.

    Motor Tax does not solely pay for the Roads how can you not understand this is all I said seriously? Some of the money taken in by motor tax pays for the roads but not all its very straight forward


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    #6981
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Roads have costs, motoring taxes supply money. If the money from motoring does not go to roads, it is still paid by the motorists. The roads are still maintained.
    Cant believe people still assume their motor tax pays solely for the roads

    Care to deal with the statement you responded to with your pocket parable?


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    #6982
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Motor Tax does not solely pay for the Roads how can you not understand this is all I said seriously? Some of the money taken in by motor tax pays for the roads but not all its very straight forward

    Ok, again, what money maintains roads?


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    #6983
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Ok, again, what money maintains roads?

    Which tax is solely earmarked for local authority services?

    A. Household Charge
    B. Any other central government tax.

    (you may pay for either out of 1. Back pocket, or 2. Front pocket)


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    #6984
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Has a home owner with mortgage 300k and a house value 200k, got wealth Yes or No

    Was this question ever answered? I ask because the poster it was directed at went quiet for a while but appears to back on this thread all guns blazing once again.


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    #6985
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    phil1nj wrote: »
    Was this question ever answered? I ask because the poster it was directed at went quiet for a while but appears to back on this thread all guns blazing once again.

    No it wasn't. Because it's an inane question.

    A property valued at 200K has exactly 200k of wealth associated with it. It would (presumably) be taxed on a value of 200k.

    But you knew that already.


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    #6986
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Ok, again, what money maintains roads?

    LA's receive funding from more areas than just your motor tax, this money is then divided up between local authorities with each section being given their budget allocation by the DOE each year so it is a collection of sources that provide money for the maintenance of roads.

    Maybe you should research how LA's obtain there funding each year before you start posting about their finances, just an idea


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    #6987
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    dvpower wrote: »
    Tax aviodance perhaps which is a different kettle of fish. I take the point but I'm not convinced by the arguement that because the rich have ways to avoid tax, the rest of us are justified in evading tax.

    Off topic I know but what is the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion? I always believed that they were the same thing (up to a point). I do understand that certain rich folk can be tax efficient which is a completely legal practice but surely certain forms of tax avoidance aren't.


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    #6988
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    phil1nj wrote: »
    Off topic I know but what is the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion? I always believed that they were the same thing (up to a point). I do understand that certain rich folk can be tax efficient which is a completely legal practice but surely certain forms of tax avoidance aren't.

    Tax evasion - illegal - you don't pay applicable taxes.
    Tax avoidance - legal - you ensure they aren't applicable to you.


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    #6989
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    alastair wrote: »
    No it wasn't. Because it's an inane question.

    A property valued at 200K has exactly 200k of wealth associated with it. It would (presumably) be taxed on a value of 200k.

    But you knew that already.

    But it's worth 300k,the guy has a 300k mortgage on it, the bank gave him a the money for a 300k mortagage. He probably paid stamp duty on it to value of 300k yet it will only be taxed at a level of 200k. Sounds stupid to me. The government are losing out on 100k worth of taxable revenue/wealth here:rolleyes:. When will this madness end.........

    Btw mate, you didn't answer the question when it was put to at first. I only asked for a clarification as to whether or not it had been answered. No need for the smug reply (although judging by your previous posts on here I should have expected nothing else).

    Good day to you.


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    #6990
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    phil1nj wrote: »
    But it's worth 300k.

    No it's not.

    Let's say you sunk 300k in IBM shares. They're currently valued at 200k. What's your wealth in terms of IBM shares? 200k.

    Same story here.


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    #6991
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    alastair wrote: »
    No it's not.

    Let's say you sunk 300k in IBM shares. They're currently valued at 200k. What's your wealth in terms of IBM shares? 200k.

    Same story here.

    The IBM shares will generate income via a dividend for me. What income does a house (my home/primary residence) generate for me? Especially one in negative equity?


This discussion has been closed.
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