Mass Effect 3: The Ending(s) [ Spoilers ]

BlitzKrieg · 19-03-2012 7:49pm

blatantrereg wrote: »

who didn't come out for you with the non-destroy option?
I had Liara and EDI. They both come out for the control option. EDI obviously doesn't with the destroy. Garrus does instead as far as I remember, and I never used him.

I took Tali and Garrus the first time and Garrus comes out.

Then I took Liara and james and both came out for the destroy ending

Then I took EDI and Garrus for control and I assume EDI was default to come out with Joker except for when its destroy and Garrus came out.

Jester252 · 19-03-2012 7:57pm

The two squadmates are the two who you have the biggest relationship with.

Kirby · 19-03-2012 8:17pm

Jester252 wrote: »

The two squadmates are the two who you have the biggest relationship with.

That can't be right. I took Garrus and Liara with me on most missions, and chatted to them more than anyone else. I used Javvik on one mission only to try him out. Yet he is the one who appeared at the end with Joker.

I selected the blue-splosion option of killing all A.I. so obviously EDI can't be there but I found it odd that the hard faced prothean is the only one who survived and shows up. I had over 5,000 EMS btw so it can't be that.

Odd things happened to me though with ME3. This wasn't the only one. It seems buggy. As I've said before, my ME2 save with all the DLC done seemed to think I didn't romance anybody, even though I romanced Miranda. I also saved all 12 members at the end of ME2 yet Kasumi is nowhere to be found in my ME3 playthrough even though Zaeed, the other dlc character, is there. It's all very odd.

Jester252 · 19-03-2012 8:20pm

That what I read. It has to do with how many times you talked to them. She is ine of the cidial missions the one with the hanar

Kirby · 19-03-2012 8:23pm

I know that because I looked it up. The hanar diplomat. However she isn't there in my playthrough. She isn't on the dead list on the Normandy like the rest. She just wasn't there. Very buggy.

BlitzKrieg · 19-03-2012 8:23pm

That can't be right. I took Garrus and Liara with me on most missions, and chatted to them more than anyone else. I used Javvik on one mission only to try him out. Yet he is the one who appeared at the end with Joker.

Supposable if you got a low score at the end of the game you should see just after harbinger attacked one of your squadmates dying at your feet so they dont appear in the ending cinematic?

Kirby · 19-03-2012 8:35pm

But I had over 5 thousand EMS. My bar had been full since the Geth encounter. Before Thessia, Sanctuary, Cerberus base and then finally earth. For about a third of the game. So a low score can't explain the Magical Javvik because I didn't have one.

It was obviously just buggy code.

Kiith · 19-03-2012 8:35pm

I was best buds with Garrus and romanced Liara, and brought them both on the final mission. Neither of them were there after i got hit with the reaper beam, and then Liara walked off the ship at the end.

Thanks for leaving me Liara....bitch :pac:

stiffler123 · 19-03-2012 8:36pm

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Supposable if you got a low score at the end of the game you should see just after harbinger attacked one of your squadmates dying at your feet so they dont appear in the ending cinematic?

You don't see them dying, they are just dead on the ground. Killed off screen:mad:. If I would of kept walking forward and not looked around I wouldn't have even noticed.

Lordhogo · 19-03-2012 8:47pm

As per what most people have said enjoyed the game not the ending blah blah blah.

Anyway my gripe is quite different. When facing the Illusive Man with Anderson my paragon level was not high enough to have him shoot himself so I went with whatever the other dialogue choice was. My problem is that when he is about to shoot Anderson the renegade option appears but being a paragon I did not hit this so he shoots Anderson now the renegade option appears again and again I did not hit it as I had no idea what would happen so I end up getting shot. I had to go through that whole flipping cut scene again and was unable to skip it which had me very pissed come the actual end as it is quite long.

I know it may be hard to understand how annoyed I was since it seems this has not happened to anyone else but this broke up the whole tempo of the ending for me.

Kirby · 19-03-2012 8:53pm

Lordhogo wrote: »

As per what most people have said enjoyed the game not the ending blah blah blah.

Anyway my gripe is quite different. When facing the Illusive Man with Anderson my paragon level was not high enough to have him shoot himself so I went with whatever the other dialogue choice was. My problem is that when he is about to shoot Anderson the renegade option appears but being a paragon I did not hit this so he shoots Anderson now the renegade option appears again and again I did not hit it as I had no idea what would happen so I end up getting shot. I had to go through that whole flipping cut scene again and was unable to skip it which had me very pissed come the actual end as it is quite long.

I know it may be hard to understand how annoyed I was since it seems this has not happened to anyone else but this broke up the whole tempo of the ending for me.

Yeah that would be quite annoying. Replaying sections can be a pain.

My illusive man shot himself and it was quite reminiscent of when I convinced Saren to top himself. I loved Saren doing that and is still one of my favourite moments in gaming as I had no idea he didn't do it for everyone else. The Illusive Man doing it just didnt feel the same.

On the other hand, looking at all the evidence such as the kid, the dialogue, Anderson's wound matching your own, Shepard not questioning the kid at all, etc. etc. it looks likely none of that actually happened after Harbinger shoots you on London and it's all in Shepard's head so it doesn't really matter in the end anyway.

G.J. · 20-03-2012 12:47am

Did anyone else see those two blue lines at the top left of the screen when you're about to go into the conduit? It's one full line and one broken line?

I'm almost certain I saw the exact same thing at some point during the game, and for some reason I thought it was during the Geth Fighter Squadron mission when you enter the Geth server, but I watched a video of someone playing through that mission and didn't see it. I'm just wondering if it's just something strange on my end or whether it has some sort of meaning. I'm sure it popped up at some other point in the game, and I want to figure out if it's important...

Sad Professor · 20-03-2012 12:47pm

Finished this last night. I loved everything up until the final choice which completely confused me. Okay, so you can choose the blue option to control the reapers and save the galaxy, but you'll die. Or you can chose the red option to destroy the reapers and save the galaxy, but you'll die. Wuh?

I spent about a minute trying to understand how controlling the reapers was a good thing considering that I just shot TLM a minute earlier because he wanted to control them. So much for there being consequences for your actions. At least in ME2 if you messed up your crew died. In ME3 it seems to end pretty much the same way no matter what you do. There's just a different colour explosion. Lame.

The "god child" stuff didn't bother me that much. I get what they were trying to do with that. I think the problem for most people was what followed. After everything you've been through you really want to see what happened to Garrus et al, but instead you get some vague ending with a door opening in a jungle and maybe some of your crew stepping out depending on how many stupid scanning side missions or multiplayer you did.

The indoctrination/dream theory seems like a desperate form of denial on the part of the fans. But if Bioware are smart they'll pretend it was deliberate and do something about this train-wreck of an ending. I'll have probably traded the game in by that stage though. I won't be playing the multiplayer as MS's piece of overpriced crap WiFi adapter is on the fritz.

Oh and what was with the big deal about finding Cerberus HQ? Why didn't Shepard just ask Miranda? We saw her in the TLM's lair in ME2, so she obviously knows where it is.

blatantrereg · 20-03-2012 12:54pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

I spent about a minute trying to understand how controlling the reapers was a good thing considering that I just shot TLM a minute earlier because he wanted to control them. So much for there being consequences for your actions.

The Illusive Man had been indoctrinated and would be unable to control the reapers. This was said explicitly by the avatar-child.

The way he wanted to control them while under indoctrination supports the notion of Shepard being indoctrinated really. It was mentioned earlier in the game that the Protheans were delayed in deploying the crucible because of internal conflict about whether to destroy or control the reapers. Both of these things suggest the reapers put the idea of control in the minds of subjects they indoctrinate..

Sad Professor · 20-03-2012 1:12pm

blatantrereg wrote: »

The way he wanted to control them while under indoctrination supports the notion of Shepard being indoctrinated really. It was mentioned earlier in the game that the Protheans were delayed in deploying the crucible because of internal conflict about whether to destroy or control the reapers. Both of these things suggest the reapers put the idea of control in the minds of subjects they indoctrinate..

That makes a lot of sense, but I still don't think it was deliberate on Bioware's part. If it was then the blue ending should have resulted in an aftermath that made it clear that you were indoctrinated and just let the reapers win, while the red ending would have suggested that you just beat the indoctrination and saved the galaxy. That would have been cool. Instead both endings are pretty much the same. I know you get to see Shepard crawling out from under rubble in one ending, but that's hardly definitive. If anything the indoctrination theory proves that Bioware overlooked what would have been a far superior ending in which your choice would have had real consequences.

mewso · 20-03-2012 1:51pm

Finished it last night myself and it was a disappointing end all right. Someone earlier said it would be lame to have an ending with all characters receiving medals etc. but I don't think it would have been lame to have you and your remaining companions survive but in a down beat way, millions dead, muted embraces and so on.

The most frustrating thing for me in the end is how well Bioware got me to care about these characters and yet leave me with little to no information on how it all ends for them never mind the vague end for Shepard. It's especially bad when you consider the fantastic end for Mordin (assuming you got the ending I'm thinking of).

While in general I'm not a big fan of the way Bioware has taken it's idea of rpg they are due a lot of respect imo for the trilogy as a whole in terms of character development and the continuing threads throughout. Would love to see more of this in games.

If the clutching at straws theory (sorry indoctrination theory) isn't true then the writing for the final sequence has to go down as some of the worst in history (while a lot of the writing in Mass Effect had been cheesy up to then it was good cheesy imo or I wouldn't have loved the characters as much as I did).

G.J. · 20-03-2012 2:26pm

I honestly support the majority of the Indoctrination Theory's ideas, but I don't think it was indoctrination. I think it was a dream more than anything.

It could be similar to how Shepard hooked up to the Geth server, how they manipulated it to help Shepard to make sense of it. The Reapers are the most advanced synthetics that the galaxy has seen, maybe the manipulated Reaper 'server' is a lot more realistic than the Geth's server?

The biggest gripe for me about the ending was where he was for the entire final scene. He was standing in space without the need for a helmet. Surely he should have stopped being able to breathe the second that lift hit the level he got to? I know it's the Citadel, but that doesn't mean there's earth-like gravity and atmosphere everywhere on the Citadel, inside and out, surely?

The one thing I don't completely understand is the very last scene after the credits if you choose the 'Destroy' option. You see Shepard in a pile of rubble. How could he possibly be alive after the events on the Citadel? It blew up, in space. This means that Shepard floated through space (again, without any helmet), and landed on a planet somewhere. These events mimic those of ME2's intro. Except somehow we're supposed to believe that Shepard experienced the same sequence of events and survived? Are we supposed to believe that Shepard rode a magical Keeper back to Earth? (or wherever he was)

Kiith · 20-03-2012 3:12pm

The only way that could really be Shepard alive after the Destroy option, is if the Indoctrination theory is correct. You wake up in London, having fought off the Indoctrination, and still have to get to the Citadel.

Mr Freeze · 20-03-2012 3:30pm

Kiith wrote: »

The only way that could really be Shepard alive after the Destroy option, is if the Indoctrination theory is correct. You wake up in London, having fought off the Indoctrination, and still have to get to the Citadel.

That's what I was thinking too.

But, there is no way EA/Bioware are going to change the ending or give a free DLC extended ending or charge for it. They are damned if they don't but will cause absolute uproar if they do.

RichTea · 20-03-2012 3:41pm

Still peeved about these endings. No variety and no sense.

This synthesis ending... wasn't Shepard very clear about how organics were free-willed and tried to foster understanding of different cultures etc.

His merging of organic and synthetic life-forms without anyones say-so is a bit crazy isn't it?

"Hey everyone! You're all half-robots now!"

G.J. · 20-03-2012 4:00pm

Actually, I'm going for the 'Storyteller/Stargazer Theory' now. The scenes from being shot by the laser onwards are all from the story that the grandfather tells his grandchild, and what actually happened is the 'information that was lost over time'.

Shryke · 20-03-2012 4:45pm

G.J. wrote: »

Actually, I'm going for the 'Storyteller/Stargazer Theory' now. The scenes from being shot by the laser onwards are all from the story that the grandfather tells his grandchild, and what actually happened is the 'information that was lost over time'.

Such a stretch though, from a storytelling point of view. And done poorly if that's the case. It still makes more sense to me as indoctrination. At this stage in the game Bioware have really screwed up. I still don't believe that the endings we were given are straight up. They're so fishy and full of holes damnit.
Even if there is/was some sort of dlc planned, leaving it this long without announcing anything either way with regards the truth of the matter is way out of bounds. More people will have given up in disgust with the series by the time they say anything, and that more than anything gives me a bad feeling in that they may have nothing to offer and that the ending is just as is.
It's even worse for me personally anyway as I can't ignore the strong hints at indoctrination, so the end of this brilliant trilogy for me is some useless and not even real brain wash attempt that I get no closure from.

Kirby · 20-03-2012 6:31pm

mewso wrote: »

If the clutching at straws theory (sorry indoctrination theory) isn't true then the writing for the final sequence has to go down as some of the worst in history (while a lot of the writing in Mass Effect had been cheesy up to then it was good cheesy imo or I wouldn't have loved the characters as much as I did).

Sad Professor wrote: »

The indoctrination/dream theory seems like a desperate form of denial on the part of the fans. But if Bioware are smart they'll pretend it was deliberate and do something about this train-wreck of an ending. I'll have probably traded the game in by that stage though. I won't be playing the multiplayer as MS's piece of overpriced crap WiFi adapter is on the fritz.

While I'm not a fan of the ending at all, there is alot of evidence supporting the "it's all in his head" theory after harbinger shoots shepard in london.

Even at the start on Earth where you have infinite ammo, you still reload your pistol. He never reloads his gun once he wakes up. This is the only part of the game this happens. Dreamlike.

Anderson describes walking along a black corridor with bodies. But there is only ONE entrance to the control panel you find. The one you take to it. He is just describing what you are seeing. How did he beat you to it anyway?

The wound that you and anderson have match up perfectly when you shoot him. Lower side of the body. Almost like you are shooting yourself. Dreamlike.

When the child disappears in the vent at the start of the game, we hear a reaper scream. We know from the lore that reapers scream when they fail to indoctrinate somebody. Bit of a coincidence.

We assume during the game that the dreams Shepard is having is because Shepard is haunted by the child's death. But looking back, nobody ever touches or interacts with the child at all. Only Shepard. No adult helps him onto the ship. He jumps on himself. Supports the theory he isn't really there and the dreams are just part of Sheps indoctrination.

Shepard never questions the god child at the end. He just accepts it. This sound like the Shepard from the first three games? Dude questions everything

.

If you choose to let the reapers live and control them, the child hangs around and smiles for a bit. Creepy. Because he is the reapers and is happy you chose to be indoctrinated. If you choose to destroy the console, he disappears instantly. Because you chose to resist indoctrination and kill them. Thats why it shows you waking up on london if you choose this way.

There are loads more I can't think of. Don't me wrong. The ending isn't good. They tried to be far too clever for their own good and ended up making a mess of it. But denying all the pretty clear evidence is silly.

Zillah · 20-03-2012 11:17pm

Kirby wrote: »

But denying all the pretty clear evidence is silly.

Honestly I don't see any evidence. I see conjecture and inconsistencies. People are very fond of saying "Well X and Y don't make any sense, so it must be a dream!" whereas I think it is more reasonable to say "X and Y don't make any sense, so the writers didn't put much effort into that section of the game, lame".

Blazer · 20-03-2012 11:55pm

Zillah wrote: »

Honestly I don't see any evidence. I see conjecture and inconsistencies. People are very fond of saying "Well X and Y don't make any sense, so it must be a dream!" whereas I think it is more reasonable to say "X and Y don't make any sense, so the writers didn't put much effort into that section of the game, lame".

agreed.... I was fairly happy with the ending apart from the Normandy part etc.
But I reckon they'll be a DLC for your squadmates where it'll actually detail what happens while Shepard is in the citadel. Suspect you have a choice of playing as Tali/Garrus/Liara etc depending on your save file.

I suspected what the ending would be like after the reaper talked to you in the middle of the game..it was fairly obvious what the ending would be...still a bit lame but when you followed Lost for 5 years and see the really shítty ending they came up with ME3 looks like a frakking masterpiece in writing.

Potential-Monke · 21-03-2012 1:01am

Just finished it about an hour ago (had to read this thread!), and the indoctrination makes the most sense to me.

But, i want to throw this out for anyone to use for the theories.

A: I spent most time with Garrus and EDI.
B: I picked all Paragon choices except for 3: attempting to punch the reporter one (not the one you take) at the start, to kill the ninja lad, shooting the Illusive Man, possibly another one somewhere, can't remember. And 2 of those Renegade choices were really the Paragon choices.
C: I romanced Ashley (continuation from ME1)

I sorted the Krogan/Salarian/Turian thing with Mordin sacrificing himself
E: I sorted the Geth/Quarian thing with Legion sacrificing himself
F: I took Garrus and EDI on the final mission
G: I picked the Control option (only because i thought it was the Paragon action, and when i saw "Control" it wouldn't let me walk away, i had to pick it...)
H: Blue light, people on the ground happy (waved their weapons) and Joker came out of the Normandy followed by Ashley and they looked very coupley, and finally EDI walks out...

Now, in my (nearly) strictly Paragon playthrough, the ending just don't add up. Something is definitely up, and i will be waiting to see what DLC comes. If i've to pay for it, i'll be pissed but i have to know what happened. If it's free, great! If nothing comes i'll be extremely pished off as will i be if it transpires the DLC was made due to the endings being actually crap.

As for the game itself, one of the best i've played ever. I loved ME1, wasn't a huge fan of ME2 (planet scanning ruined the experience), but this was gold. And i wasn't even going to get it!!! I very nearly shed a tear for Legion. He was, by a very close margin, the second best character in the game, pipped only by EDI. Their evolutions were stunningly written. When Legion sacrificed himself, i had to take a moment and then realise how perfectly fitting it was. I need more interaction with the Geth to finish my ME story. Overall, i've very happy, over 50 hours put into this, and i don't think i had everything done (couldn't complete the Elcor Ambassador mission as it wouldn't let me land on Dakuun!). MP is a bit of craic too, but i just can't seem to win anything but bronze!

Arawn · 21-03-2012 1:19am

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Just finished it about an hour ago (had to read this thread!), and the indoctrination makes the most sense to me.

But, i want to throw this out for anyone to use for the theories.

A: I spent most time with Garrus and EDI.
B: I picked all Paragon choices except for 3: attempting to punch the reporter one (not the one you take) at the start, to kill the ninja lad, shooting the Illusive Man, possibly another one somewhere, can't remember. And 2 of those Renegade choices were really the Paragon choices.
C: I romanced Ashley (continuation from ME1)
I sorted the Krogan/Salarian/Turian thing with Mordin sacrificing himself
E: I sorted the Geth/Quarian thing with Legion sacrificing himself
F: I took Garrus and EDI on the final mission
G: I picked the Control option (only because i thought it was the Paragon action, and when i saw "Control" it wouldn't let me walk away, i had to pick it...)
H: Blue light, people on the ground happy (waved their weapons) and Joker came out of the Normandy followed by Ashley and they looked very coupley, and finally EDI walks out...

Now, in my (nearly) strictly Paragon playthrough, the ending just don't add up. Something is definitely up, and i will be waiting to see what DLC comes. If i've to pay for it, i'll be pissed but i have to know what happened. If it's free, great! If nothing comes i'll be extremely pished off as will i be if it transpires the DLC was made due to the endings being actually crap.

As for the game itself, one of the best i've played ever. I loved ME1, wasn't a huge fan of ME2 (planet scanning ruined the experience), but this was gold. And i wasn't even going to get it!!! I very nearly shed a tear for Legion. He was, by a very close margin, the second best character in the game, pipped only by EDI. Their evolutions were stunningly written. When Legion sacrificed himself, i had to take a moment and then realise how perfectly fitting it was. I need more interaction with the Geth to finish my ME story. Overall, i've very happy, over 50 hours put into this, and i don't think i had everything done (couldn't complete the Elcor Ambassador mission as it wouldn't let me land on Dakuun!). MP is a bit of craic too, but i just can't seem to win anything but bronze!

Remember this when you've to buy the ending for all future games

Potential-Monke · 21-03-2012 1:25am

Arawn wrote: »

Remember this when you've to buy the ending for all future games

Oh i know, but all future games who wish to go this route must get my complete love and attention like the ME universe did... I seriously doubt other games will...

G.J. · 21-03-2012 1:25am

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Just finished it about an hour ago (had to read this thread!), and the indoctrination makes the most sense to me.

But, i want to throw this out for anyone to use for the theories.

A: I spent most time with Garrus and EDI.
B: I picked all Paragon choices except for 3: attempting to punch the reporter one (not the one you take) at the start, to kill the ninja lad, shooting the Illusive Man, possibly another one somewhere, can't remember. And 2 of those Renegade choices were really the Paragon choices.
C: I romanced Ashley (continuation from ME1)
I sorted the Krogan/Salarian/Turian thing with Mordin sacrificing himself
E: I sorted the Geth/Quarian thing with Legion sacrificing himself
F: I took Garrus and EDI on the final mission
G: I picked the Control option (only because i thought it was the Paragon action, and when i saw "Control" it wouldn't let me walk away, i had to pick it...)
H: Blue light, people on the ground happy (waved their weapons) and Joker came out of the Normandy followed by Ashley and they looked very coupley, and finally EDI walks out...

Now, in my (nearly) strictly Paragon playthrough, the ending just don't add up. Something is definitely up, and i will be waiting to see what DLC comes. If i've to pay for it, i'll be pissed but i have to know what happened. If it's free, great! If nothing comes i'll be extremely pished off as will i be if it transpires the DLC was made due to the endings being actually crap.

As for the game itself, one of the best i've played ever. I loved ME1, wasn't a huge fan of ME2 (planet scanning ruined the experience), but this was gold. And i wasn't even going to get it!!! I very nearly shed a tear for Legion. He was, by a very close margin, the second best character in the game, pipped only by EDI. Their evolutions were stunningly written. When Legion sacrificed himself, i had to take a moment and then realise how perfectly fitting it was. I need more interaction with the Geth to finish my ME story. Overall, i've very happy, over 50 hours put into this, and i don't think i had everything done (couldn't complete the Elcor Ambassador mission as it wouldn't let me land on Dakuun!). MP is a bit of craic too, but i just can't seem to win anything but bronze!

Looks like you got tricked by the devil child (possibly)! There's a theory stating that the lights are a decoy, the red, supposedly renegade option 'Destroy' is presented as being destroyed by Anderson, a Paragon, whereas the blue, supposedly Paragon option 'Control' is portrayed by TIM, a renegade. Funny how the lights can sway a decision like that!

Apart from that, you played the game exactly how I played it. Even the 'Renegade' options you chose were the same as mine!

The Elcor Ambassador mission only requires that you scan the planet by the way, there's no need to land on it.

Zillah · 21-03-2012 4:27am

G.J. wrote: »

Looks like you got tricked by the devil child (possibly)! There's a theory stating that the lights are a decoy, the red, supposedly renegade option 'Destroy' is presented as being destroyed by Anderson, a Paragon, whereas the blue, supposedly Paragon option 'Control' is portrayed by TIM, a renegade. Funny how the lights can sway a decision like that!

Anderson is a paragon? The guy who punched Udina in the face for daring to ask why he was breaking into his office? The guy who risked court martial to help Shepard steal the Normandy in violation of Alliance and Council orders?

Mass Effect 3: The Ending(s) [** Spoilers **]

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Mass Effect 3: The Ending(s) [ Spoilers ]