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Cheap Chinese ditch finders

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    conzymaher wrote: »
    Yes they control their car perfectly by travelling everywhere at 55km/h and pushing it to 95km/h on the motorway

    bull:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    First hand experience, I know, it's unusual for many posts in Motors offering advice and opinions to be based on it but there you go.

    Previous car to my current one had been fitted with cheapo Wanlis by the garage just before I was given it, I got rid of them after a while enough even though they appeared to be brand new after a bit of mileage on them. The slightest bit of damp resulted in traction control constantly kicking in. And this was on a 1.6 Octavia so there was no messing about.

    If you google them the first link returned will be a 'beware of' type.

    If you try another search engine with a little less user / advertiser bias, maybe duckduckgo.com you only get links to good reviews though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    If a tyre is legal please expand on how common sense applies. People buy on price. Like everything if you buy cheapest of something you will always get the worst performance. There will always be good tyres and bad tyres with or without standards. You should always buy the best tyre you can afford.

    We're in agreement here. By common sense I mean approach it the way you would approach any purchase. Do your homework, read the reviews and get a good safe tyre at a price you can afford.
    jsd1004 wrote: »
    Absolutely. I agree. Does that mean we should all drive SUV's and be obliged to wear helmets and full harnesses to improve safety. Equipment is important but knowing your limitations the limitations of your car and its equipment and driving appropriately is also important.

    Again, I agree. Obviously your driving ability is a major factor in safety.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,818 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    darokane wrote: »
    bull:rolleyes:
    The only way to maintain safety with reduced grip is to reduce speed.


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    darokane wrote: »
    A good driver will control their car no matter what tyre is on it in any conditions.
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    First hand experience, I know, it's unusual for many posts in Motors offering advice and opinions to be based on it but there you go.

    Previous car to my current one had been fitted with cheapo Wanlis by the garage just before I was given it, I got rid of them after a while enough even though they appeared to be brand new after a bit of mileage on them. The slightest bit of damp resulted in traction control constantly kicking in. And this was on a 1.6 Octavia so there was no messing about.

    If you google them the first link returned will be a 'beware of' type.


    So using Darokane's expert view and ThisRegards first hand experience it looks like ThisRegards isn't a good driver :pac:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    There's a lot of guff talked about unbranded tyres on this forum.

    Is there any real proof that these tyres wear faster or don't grip as well as branded European ones.

    Given the item under discussion, the correct way to approach things is from the cautionary side. And to err on that side. You can also ask, in the face of a lack of concrete, objective evidence: "to where does the evidence point".

    The first thing to acknowledge is that there is nothing to prevent a no-brand tyre from China performing as well as a branded tyre from Europe. In theory at least. But what is the most reasonable thing to expect - given a reasonable set of assumptions.

    1. A no-brand tyre will have to meet certain EU regulations before it can be sold here - just as the Euro tyre will have to. But those regulations are limited in reach. They won't ensure, for instance, that quality control is such as to prevent wide fluctuations in manufacturing tolerances. Or prevent a manufacturer substituting cheaper materials post his having achieved the EU mark (remember the PIP breast implants?)

    2. Companies in China don't fall under the juristiction of European law and so failure as a result of poor manufacturing practices or substitution with cheaper materials won't bring with it the penalites that would accrue to a European company - including in the case of substitution to sub-standard materials, criminal prosecution.

    The Chinese company has more freedom in this regard and it is reasonable, given human nature, to suppose a higher risk attaching to the Chinese tyre than to the European one, in these regards.

    3. Brand LingLong has no value as a brand whereas the likes of Continental and Pirelli do have value. The manufacturer of LingLong has nothing to loose brandwise if his tyres prove to increase accidents and fatalities - he just has to change the name on the tyre to brand PingPong and carry on where he left off. Whereas the manufacturer of Continental has lots to loose. And so the latter can be reasonably expected to do his utmost to protect his brand image. Which can be reasonably be expected to convert to a better and more reliably performing product.

    4. China is a notoriously corrupt nation whereas European countries have a good record in this regard. Even with the best will in the world, the Chinese tyre manufacturer cannot ensure his product is as he intends it to be for want of the corruption at all tiers surrounding his supply lines, manufacturing workers, etc. Those LingLong tyres you have could be rejected product that has found it's way back into the supply line, the result of corruption in the Quality Dept. For instance.

    -

    I could go on but these strike me as sufficient reasons to steer clear of an item which should bow to the exhortation "buyer beware!" as no other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭Neilw


    darokane wrote: »
    A good driver will control their car no matter what tyre is on it in any conditions.

    What about an emergency situation such as a lane change in wet weather to avoid an accident, your budget tyre could be well beyond its limits where a premium tyre would take it in its stride.

    I've driven on budget tyres and will stick with my eagle f1's or pilot sports thanks very much.

    Some people have closed minds and no amount of education or user experience will change their minds.


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Neilw wrote: »
    What about an emergency situation such as a lane change in wet weather to avoid an accident, your budget tyre could be well beyond its limits where a premium tyre would take it in its stride..............

    Not a great example if you are claiming to be a good driver, being able to stop in the distance that's clear and all that jazz.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    RoverJames wrote: »
    So using Darokane's expert view and ThisRegards first hand experience it looks like ThisRegards isn't a good driver :pac:

    Hey, get out of here with your perverse logic !


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭Neilw


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Not a great example if you are claiming to be a good driver, being able to stop in the distance that's clear and all that jazz.

    I didn't claim to be anything of the sort.

    I'm saying sometimes an emergency situation/close call can't be avoided, nobody's perfect when it comes to driving, we all make the odd mistake. I'd rather have a better set of tyres on my car in one of those situations.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    RoverJames wrote: »
    So using Darokane's expert view and ThisRegards first hand experience it looks like ThisRegards isn't a good driver :pac:

    ;)exactly


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    darokane wrote: »
    A good driver will control their car no matter what tyre is on it in any conditions.
    Neilw wrote: »
    What about an emergency situation such as a lane change in wet weather to avoid an accident, your budget tyre could be well beyond its limits where a premium tyre would take it in its stride.

    I've driven on budget tyres and will stick with my eagle f1's or pilot sports thanks very much.

    Some people have closed minds and no amount of education or user experience will change their minds.
    RoverJames wrote: »
    Not a great example if you are claiming to be a good driver, being able to stop in the distance that's clear and all that jazz.
    Neilw wrote: »
    I didn't claim to be anything of the sort.................

    Indeed you didn't, but darokane was specifically on about good drivers and you quoted him :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭JJJJNR


    I purchased a brand new cheap Chinese tyre while I was awaiting delivery of my winters last year and during one of the cold snaps when the temp dropped to -10 or something the tyre stuck to the drive-way and basically disintegrated right there and then. The other tyres all good brand euro summer tyres were fine, twas a nightmare changing the thing while it was stuck frozen to the ground.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    So, cheap tires=babies will die!
    But seriously, if you buy a cheap telly, you have to put up with crap picture, if you live in a cheap (€500k) celtic-tiger era house, you're going to be frozen as the house falls down around you, cheap clothes and you're going to look terrible and be cold, but cheap tires that have longer stopping distances, especially in the wet could mean someone steps out in front of the car will get mown down, instead of escaping injury.
    I don't buy premium brands only, or only the most expensive, but I try to find the best balance between safety, performance and price.
    But in the end, for those who understand, no explanation is necessary, for those who don't no explanation is possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,679 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    There is certainly a difference OP

    I was stuck for a set of front tyres a while back and ended up with a (not-so-cheap) set of "Event" tyres on the day (damn awkward sizes even though there's thousands of Passats on the road)... well driving on them was certainly an "event" alright - absolutely rubbish in the wet, no grip round corners/bends at anything over 50 km/h etc. Not to mention the road noise was a lot higher.

    Contrast that with the set of Hankook All-Season Optimo 4s I put on before Christmas which keep the car glued to the road on the same corners/bends and which worked out cheaper in the end too.

    With the mileage I (was) do(ing) splashing out 5-600 for a "premium" brand wasn't a runner but never again will I be putting chinese crap like that on the car again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,264 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    My last car had some cheap crap on the front wheels when I bought it. I quickly changed them when I experienced understeer at a low speed on a wet roundabout. They had plenty of thread and it was a rear wheel drive which really shouldnt understeer so it was the tyre design / materials that let me down. I put a set of bridgestones on and never again felt the slightest twitch.


  • Subscribers Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭conzy


    There is no excuse for buying these tyres, The price difference between a wanli / nankang ditchfinder and a very good budget tyre like the Falken 452 is about 10 or 15 euro per corner.

    Typically lazy paddy spec attitude :mad:

    Its amazing how many cars you see with 4 odd ditch finders, with bald rears because they have already been rotated from the front to the rear.

    Reviews of Falken 452


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    darokane wrote: »
    A good driver will control their car no matter what tyre is on it in any conditions.

    A good driver will make sure they have a good set of tyres, since its the last bit connecting you with the road.

    A driver who sticks cheap sh*te on their car and heads out with the "I'm such a good driver I can forsee anything" is in my a view, deluded.

    The cheap chinese brands come out bottom in nearly all the ADAC Tests, lots of them fail the speed test (rated speed) resulting in blowouts and shredding. Very dangerous.

    E.G. Wanli

    Myself I stick the Cruise Control at 180km/h on the way to work, I'd prefer to spend a bit more on a decent tyre than save a few quid and risk paying a whole lot more in car repair costs or in the worst case my life.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    "If I'm still alive" seriously?

    Maybe it's just that I don't drive like a dick, but I've been perfectly happy on them for years.

    I suspect you'd change your tune if it was triangle tyres with a load of hoardings at Anfield or on the side of an f1 car and passing the expense of that on to you.
    So you think all that separates a branded tyre from a non-branded one is advertising? What else in life do you apply this theory to?

    What I'm rabbiting on about is that this seems to be a situation where massive advertising has created an image around certain brands that is meaningless.

    All tyres sold on this country meet the same safety standards.

    Some people seem to believe that European corporations who manufacture tyres will go above and beyond that safety standard, and also that other brands will be below it.
    Safety standards? Would you care to explain these safety standards? The glorious "E" mark is it? If they have that magic E then they're perfectly safe and all equal? Maybe it's time to get the head out of the sand. That's only for manufacturing standards. It doesn't mean they actually have to produce a quality product.
    We have the NCAP safety rating for how well cars perform in an impact, and while it may not be a perfect system, it certainly is a good indicator. We have nothing at all for tyres.
    jsd1004 wrote: »
    This is a bit of a silly debate. What constitutes a good tyre or a bad tyre? Is a Pirelli P6000 a ditch finder because it has less grip than a Michelin Pilot Supersport. Should we all be made buy tyres that only last a 1000 miles cost 300euros a corner but grip like **** to a cows hole. I have driven a car with 4 triangles and it was appalling in the wet (good fun though) I knew that though and drove accordingly and to the conditions. The tyres were reasonable in the dry however. I have another car with semi slick Yokahama A088 that are dangerous in the wet but grip like hell once warm in the dry and i drive accordingly. A lot of people who find ditches should consider their driving style and their knowledge of their car and equipment before blaming one particular component.
    No. You're missing the point. What we refer to as "ditchfinders" are typically real rubbish like triangles, or wanli's, or runways or GHWGHATH's or whatever you may never have heard of, and go and take a spin in a car with them and immediately find out just how crap they are without even trying.
    Some of the top brands are typically overly expensive, some of the Michelin's are pricey but hard compound so not all that grippy. They last ages, but I don't like them because they tend to reach a point where 60% of the grip is gone but there's still loads of tread left. Other tyres are softer compound, and give better grip, and some give a balance.
    There are many good brands out there that are like the Kia's and Hyundai's of the world, where they have an offering that's 90% as good as the top brands, but only 60% of the price. Kumho's and Hankook's are very decent, and in most sizes that I've priced, only €10 a corner more expensive than the cheap crap.
    You only have to pay a little more to get a lot better. That's the point we're constantly trying to drum into people. But there are those who think they know better. Into the sand with your heads I say!


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I find the Accelera Phi very good, they're almost done now though after 15,000 miles.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    darokane wrote: »
    A good driver will control their car no matter what tyre is on it in any conditions.

    A good driver will make sure they have a good set of tyres, since its the last bit connecting you with the road.

    A driver who sticks cheap sh*te on their car and heads out with the "I'm such a good driver I can forsee anything" is in my a view, deluded.

    The cheap chinese brands come out bottom in nearly all the ADAC Tests, lots of them fail the speed test (rated speed) resulting in blowouts and shredding. Very dangerous.

    E.G. Wanli

    Myself I stick the Cruise Control at 180km/h on the way to work, I'd prefer to spend a bit more on a decent tyre than save a few quid and risk paying a whole lot more in car repair costs or in the worst case my life.

    If you're sticking the cruise control at 180 on a commute, in Ireland you are exceeding the maximum speed rating for whatever road you are on.

    I don't think your opinion on the safety of average tyres for an average driver is valid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,264 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    If you're sticking the cruise control at 180 on a commute, in Ireland you are exceeding the maximum speed rating for whatever road you are on.

    I don't think your opinion on the safety of average tyres for an average driver is valid.

    What makes you think he's in Ireland?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭✭heate


    I've never 'experienced' cheap tyres I run sport maxx II which cost a ridiculous amount of money on the one hand but last for a long time on the other. How long do cheap tyres last? Cost/benefit?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    Tea 1000 wrote: »
    "If I'm still alive" seriously?

    Maybe it's just that I don't drive like a dick, but I've been perfectly happy on them for years.

    I suspect you'd change your tune if it was triangle tyres with a load of hoardings at Anfield or on the side of an f1 car and passing the expense of that on to you.
    So you think all that separates a branded tyre from a non-branded one is advertising? What else in life do you apply this theory

    I apply it to most things. In many cases the only difference between a branded product and a generic one is the name and the money spent advertising and building brand recognition.

    I agree that in some cases there is a prestige value in buying the more expensive branded version. A pair of expensive branded jeans versus a cheap pair from a high street shop. One clearly has a value above the other but both are equally effective as a pair of trousers.

    I do have to admit I rarely buy tyres, maybe once every three years, it's not a big expense for me, so I tend to go for the branded versions, however I just bought a car that has two new triangle tyres on the front and two unbranded ones on the back and they seem perfect.

    My oh always buys the cheapest she can find and they seem grand also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,587 ✭✭✭tossy


    If you're sticking the cruise control at 180 on a commute, in Ireland you are exceeding the maximum speed rating for whatever road you are on.

    Maximum speed rating or maximum speed limit? I appreciate the limit is exceeded but i would like to think most of the motorways etc are capable of handling a car travelling at 180kmh over them :D I have visions of tarmac melting and roads breaking up when cars go too fast,oh and of course yourself,Joe Duffy and uncle Gaybo screaming blue murder at the drivers :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,587 ✭✭✭tossy


    I however I just bought a car that has two new triangle tyres on the front and two unbranded ones on the back.

    So it has 4 crap tyres on it then? :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭Chuck_Norris


    If I could add my 2 cents here

    I've had what we would classify as ditchfinders in my car recently (1.9 TDi Octavia), and found hem absolutely appalling.
    I would like I think of myself as a reasonably competent driver, and dont "drive like a dick", because I've my son in the car quite a bit, and basically because the car doesn't afford me the option to.
    The tyres were Federal brand, which are apparently quite respected/ a premium brand in Australia, but I found them to be shockingly bad. They were an extremely hard compound, meaning they were very long lasting, but had no grip at all in the damp, never mind the wet.
    In the dry, they were reasonable, bordering on good. So perhaps that would be why they were treated in such high esteem in Australia, given their warm/ dry climate.
    I know this is a rambling post, but my ultimate point is this: O/P, you didn't want any first hand evidence/ links to threads, but of ou google Federal tyres, the first few links will give pretty glowing reports. But primarily from sites outside this country. Personally I would much rather advice given by people who have experience in what they are talking about.

    Going fully on topic again, the Federal tyres came with a set of alloys I bought. First time I've ever had cheap tyres on the car. Over the 6 years I've owned it I've probably had every major brand of tyre on it, and can safely say that the difference in Premium Brands and Ditchfinders is much, much more than advertising.
    Buying cheap shoite will only end up costing you in the long run.

    Ramble over. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,679 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    If you're sticking the cruise control at 180 on a commute, in Ireland you are exceeding the maximum speed rating for whatever road you are on.

    I don't think your opinion on the safety of average tyres for an average driver is valid.
    alias no.9 wrote: »
    What makes you think he's in Ireland?

    I knew there'd be someone who'd have to ride in on a very tall horse when I saw KC's post :p (hint: Location, Location, LOCATION) :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    tossy wrote: »
    Maximum speed rating or maximum speed limit? I
    appreciate the limit is exceeded but i would like to think most of the
    motorways etc are capable of handling a car travelling at 180kmh over them
    I have visions of tarmac melting and roads breaking up when cars go too
    fast,oh and of course yourself,Joe Duffy and uncle Gaybo screaming blue
    murder at the drivers

    I don't want to get into the argument about speed limits, but if you drive
    like that the 1% difference that cheap tyres apparently make is magnified,
    so you're opinion while probably valid on how the tyre operates at 180kph
    is useless to me.

    It's far from high horsery, I just don't drive like that so the tyre being useless at 180 clicks is meaningless to me.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,316 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    I had Austone tyres on my Xantia when I bought them. For Chinese tyres they were rather good.

    Grip in the dry was rather good, even when pushing the car a bit. Wet grip was a bit different, a little bit worse, but still very drivable. The ABS did kick in a little bit more often the then wet under emergency braking a little bit more then the Verdsteins that replaced them. However, I never was afraid of driving with them.

    They were a softer compound I think, the thread wore out as quick enough.


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