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An open letter from Boards.ie to Minister Sean Sherlock

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,932 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    I finally recieved a response from a TD I emailed, I emailed all in Cork South Central and only got a response from Michael McGrath who had asked a question in the Dail. Here is the question and response, my apologies if it was posted before but this is a very long thread.

    Yup, got the same letter this morning. Only other reply I got was Buttimer with a one line response saying call in and we can talk further


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    titan18 wrote: »
    Yup, got the same letter this morning. Only other reply I got was Buttimer with a one line response saying call in and we can talk further

    I fcuking hate those responses, especially when I state my points and questions clearly, if he can't come up with an answer through e-mail when he has time for research how is he gonna do it on the spot?


    Just realised my last e-mail was sent to Cork south west TD's rather than South Central.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    people can support this legislation all they want on here, no one is going to stop them.
    .......

    *tumbleweed*


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Eggy Baby! wrote: »
    .......

    *tumbleweed*


    No tumbleweed here mate--Im still trying to get a face to face meeting with one of my locals.

    Its either that or I show em up on the local St Patricks Day parade next weekend.They`re usually there doing the whole "lets show our faces to the local community" thing and I have a couple of ideas!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    No tumbleweed here mate--Im still trying to get a face to face meeting with one of my locals.

    I meant tumbleweed as in nobody is supporting the legislation...its pretty obvious the vast majority oppose it (and rightly so).


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭AntiRip


    Has there been any move yet from IRMA etc. to exercise their new favorite law?

    Can't see them holding off too long in case there are amendments or changes to it because of the backlash. Well, I hope the backlash is making a difference that is.


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    They won't do it for months because it's way too hot a topic at the moment, plus it's "chilling effect" benefits them too and they don't need to do shag all for that.
    This isn't over by a long shot either, there are a number of groups moving to take further actions. I'll keep ye informed when there is something to inform ye of :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭Jericho.


    I would like to complete the consultation but having had a read of it I would be unable to complete a lot of it myself.

    Would it be possible for someone to post what they have submitted when they have submitted it so that it could be used by others for guidance?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭DoesNotCompute


    Just got a response from Seanie, seems to be one that was sent out to a load of email addresses, hence the generic, "A Chara" greeting:
    A Chara,

    I would like to update you regarding the enactment of the European Union (Copyright and Related Rights) Regulations 2012.

    I fully acknowledge the concerns that have been expressed by you regarding the introduction of the European Union (Copyright and Related Rights) Regulations 2012 which were signed into law on 29th February, 2012. I wish to re-emphasise that it has been necessary to introduce this legislative measure to restate the position that was thought to exist in the Copyright and Related Rights Act, 2000 regarding injunctions against intermediaries prior to the High Court Judgement of Justice Charleton in the case of EMI & others –v- UPC and to ensure that Ireland is compliant with our obligations under EU law.

    I am satisfied that the High Court now has significant guidance in the implementation of this legislative measure arising from the underpinning EU Directives, as interpreted by the recent Court of Justice of the European Union case law, to ensure that any remedy provided will uphold the following principles:

    • Freedom to conduct a business enjoyed by operators such as ISPs;
    • The absolute requirement that an ISP cannot be required to carry out general monitoring on the information it carries on its network;
    • Any measures must be fair and proportionate and not be unnecessarily complicated or costly;
    • The fundamental rights of an ISPs’ customers must be respected, namely their right to protection of their personal data and their freedom to receive or impart information.

    I am determined to ensure that Ireland will be a premier location where innovation can flourish and where innovation is facilitated by our copyright laws and data protection regime. In this regard, I am committed to reviewing and updating the Copyright legislation currently in place in order to strike the right balance between encouraging innovation and protecting creativity.

    In this context, I am particularly anxious that the Consultation Paper of the Copyright Review Committee, which was launched on 29th February, 2012, is carefully studied by all interested parties to stimulate a constructive and well informed debate on these issues. This is a wide-ranging Consultation Paper which examines the current copyright legislative framework to identify any areas of the legislation that might be deemed to create barriers to innovation. The Consultation Paper is available to download at the following link: http://www.djei.ie/science/ipr/crc_statement.htm.

    I would like to encourage the deepest engagement by all interested parties in the consultation process which has been launched in order to stimulate a constructive and well informed debate on all of the issues raised in this rapidly evolving area.

    I am confident that the work being carried out by the Copyright Review Committee together with the interaction and input of all of the interested parties will result in establishing Irish copyright law on a firm footing to encourage innovation, foster creativity and meet the challenges of the future with confidence.

    Yours sincerely,

    Seán Sherlock TD
    Minister for Research and Innovation


  • Subscribers Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭Draco


    I got this form letter response a few minutes ago from Seán Sherlock (I originally emailed him on the 23rd of January):
    A Chara,

    I would like to update you regarding the enactment of the European Union (Copyright and Related Rights) Regulations 2012.

    I fully acknowledge the concerns that have been expressed by you regarding the introduction of the European Union (Copyright and Related Rights) Regulations 2012 which were signed into law on 29th February, 2012. I wish to re-emphasise that it has been necessary to introduce this legislative measure to restate the position that was thought to exist in the Copyright and Related Rights Act, 2000 regarding injunctions against intermediaries prior to the High Court Judgement of Justice Charleton in the case of EMI & others –v- UPC and to ensure that Ireland is compliant with our obligations under EU law.

    I am satisfied that the High Court now has significant guidance in the implementation of this legislative measure arising from the underpinning EU Directives, as interpreted by the recent Court of Justice of the European Union case law, to ensure that any remedy provided will uphold the following principles:

    • Freedom to conduct a business enjoyed by operators such as ISPs;
    • The absolute requirement that an ISP cannot be required to carry out general monitoring on the information it carries on its network;
    • Any measures must be fair and proportionate and not be unnecessarily complicated or costly;
    • The fundamental rights of an ISPs’ customers must be respected, namely their right to protection of their personal data and their freedom to receive or impart information.

    I am determined to ensure that Ireland will be a premier location where innovation can flourish and where innovation is facilitated by our copyright laws and data protection regime. In this regard, I am committed to reviewing and updating the Copyright legislation currently in place in order to strike the right balance between encouraging innovation and protecting creativity.

    In this context, I am particularly anxious that the Consultation Paper of the Copyright Review Committee, which was launched on 29th February, 2012, is carefully studied by all interested parties to stimulate a constructive and well informed debate on these issues. This is a wide-ranging Consultation Paper which examines the current copyright legislative framework to identify any areas of the legislation that might be deemed to create barriers to innovation. The Consultation Paper is available to download at the following link: http://www.djei.ie/science/ipr/crc_statement.htm.

    I would like to encourage the deepest engagement by all interested parties in the consultation process which has been launched in order to stimulate a constructive and well informed debate on all of the issues raised in this rapidly evolving area.

    I am confident that the work being carried out by the Copyright Review Committee together with the interaction and input of all of the interested parties will result in establishing Irish copyright law on a firm footing to encourage innovation, foster creativity and meet the challenges of the future with confidence.

    Yours sincerely,

    Seán Sherlock TD
    Minister for Research and Innovation


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭DoesNotCompute


    Draco wrote: »

    Did you not receive any acknowledgement since then? Seems like they stopped issuing acknowledgements having found themselves inundated with correspondence, and not able to answer them all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Got this today:
    You recently contacted me in relation to your concerns over changes to the protection of copyright in Ireland. I have now received a response from Minister Sherlock on this matter, and include it below for your information.
    Of note, the Minister has highlighted the new Consultation Paper of the Copyright Review Committee, which was launched on 29th February. This wide-ranging Consultation Paper which examines the current legislative framework surrounding copyright is available to download at the following link, http://www.djei.ie/science/ipr/crc_statement.htm. The Minister has invited all interested parties to make a submission to the group.

    I hope this information will be of some use to you, and you will be assured of my ongoing effort on your behalf. Please don't hesitate to contact me if I can be of further assistance on this or any other matter.

    Kind regards,

    Simon
    Dear colleagues,
     
    I would like to update you further regarding the enactment of the European Union (Copyright and Related Rights) Regulations 2012.
     
    I fully acknowledge the concerns that have been expressed by your constituents regarding the introduction of the European Union (Copyright and Related Rights) Regulations 2012 which were signed into law on 29th February, 2012.   I wish to re-emphasise that it has been necessary to introduce this legislative measure to restate the position that was thought to exist in the Copyright and Related Rights Act, 2000 regarding injunctions against intermediaries prior to the High Court Judgement of Justice Charleton in the case of EMI & others –v- UPC and to ensure that Ireland is compliant with our obligations under EU law.  
     
    I am satisfied that the High Court now has significant guidance in the implementation of this legislative measure arising from the underpinning EU Directives, as interpreted by the recent Court of Justice of the European Union case law, to ensure that any remedy provided will uphold the following principles:
    ·        Freedom to conduct a business enjoyed by operators such as ISPs;
    ·        The absolute requirement that an ISP cannot be required to carry out general monitoring on the information it carries on its network;
    ·        Any measures must be fair and proportionate and not be unnecessarily complicated or costly;
    ·        The fundamental rights of an ISPs’ customers must be respected, namely their right to protection of their personal data and their freedom to receive or impart information.
    I am determined to ensure that Ireland will be a premier location where innovation can flourish and where innovation is facilitated by our copyright laws and data protection regime.  In this regard, I am committed to reviewing and updating the Copyright legislation currently in place in order to strike the right balance between encouraging innovation and protecting creativity.    
     
    In this context, I am particularly anxious that the Consultation Paper of the Copyright Review Committee, which was launched on 29th February, 2012, is carefully studied by all interested parties to stimulate a constructive and well informed debate on these issues.  This is a wide-ranging Consultation Paper which examines the current copyright legislative framework to identify any areas of the legislation that might be deemed to create barriers to innovation.  The Consultation Paper is available to download at the following link: http://www.djei.ie/science/ipr/crc_statement.htm.
     
    I would like to encourage the deepest engagement by all interested parties in the consultation process which has been launched in order to stimulate a constructive and well informed debate on all of the issues raised in this rapidly evolving area.  
     
    I am confident that the work being carried out by the Copyright Review Committee together with the interaction and input of all of the interested parties will result in establishing Irish copyright law on a firm footing to encourage innovation, foster creativity and meet the challenges of the future with confidence.
     
    Yours sincerely,
     
    Seán Sherlock TD
    Minister for Research and Innovation


    Simon Harris TD


  • Subscribers Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭Draco


    Did you not receive any acknowledgement since then? Seems like they stopped issuing acknowledgements having found themselves inundated with correspondence, and not able to answer them all.
    That form mail is the first reply I got from him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    RE this:
    Respondents are requested to make their submissions in writing and, where possible, by email. With regard to the latter, respondents are requested to ensure that electronic submissions are furnished in an unprotected format.

    What exactly do they mean by an "unprotected format"; I usually send these things in on proper letterhead in PDF. I wouldn't call that an unprotected format, but they couldn't edit it if that's what they mean?


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    It's possible to "protect" a PDF to the extent that you can't copy text from it. Maybe that's what they're concerned about?


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    It's possible to "protect" a PDF to the extent that you can't copy text from it. Maybe that's what they're concerned about?
    That's what I was thinking. I guess I'll just send it in .doc (as I'm sure they won't be able to open .odt :P)


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,773 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    I am pretty sure they will be fine with .odt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭shanered


    A Chara,

    I would like to update you regarding the enactment of the European Union (Copyright and Related Rights) Regulations 2012.

    I fully acknowledge the concerns that have been expressed by you regarding the introduction of the European Union (Copyright and Related Rights) Regulations 2012 which were signed into law on 29th February, 2012. I wish to re-emphasise that it has been necessary to introduce this legislative measure to restate the position that was thought to exist in the Copyright and Related Rights Act, 2000 regarding injunctions against intermediaries prior to the High Court Judgement of Justice Charleton in the case of EMI & others –v- UPC and to ensure that Ireland is compliant with our obligations under EU law.

    I am satisfied that the High Court now has significant guidance in the implementation of this legislative measure arising from the underpinning EU Directives, as interpreted by the recent Court of Justice of the European Union case law, to ensure that any remedy provided will uphold the following principles:

    • Freedom to conduct a business enjoyed by operators such as ISPs;
    • The absolute requirement that an ISP cannot be required to carry out general monitoring on the information it carries on its network;
    • Any measures must be fair and proportionate and not be unnecessarily complicated or costly;
    • The fundamental rights of an ISPs’ customers must be respected, namely their right to protection of their personal data and their freedom to receive or impart information.

    I am determined to ensure that Ireland will be a premier location where innovation can flourish and where innovation is facilitated by our copyright laws and data protection regime. In this regard, I am committed to reviewing and updating the Copyright legislation currently in place in order to strike the right balance between encouraging innovation and protecting creativity.

    In this context, I am particularly anxious that the Consultation Paper of the Copyright Review Committee, which was launched on 29th February, 2012, is carefully studied by all interested parties to stimulate a constructive and well informed debate on these issues. This is a wide-ranging Consultation Paper which examines the current copyright legislative framework to identify any areas of the legislation that might be deemed to create barriers to innovation. The Consultation Paper is available to download at the following link: http://www.djei.ie/science/ipr/crc_statement.htm.

    I would like to encourage the deepest engagement by all interested parties in the consultation process which has been launched in order to stimulate a constructive and well informed debate on all of the issues raised in this rapidly evolving area.

    I am confident that the work being carried out by the Copyright Review Committee together with the interaction and input of all of the interested parties will result in establishing Irish copyright law on a firm footing to encourage innovation, foster creativity and meet the challenges of the future with confidence.

    Yours sincerely,

    Seán Sherlock TD
    Minister for Research and Innovation

    ___________________________________________________________

    The Copyright Review Committee publishes a Consultation Paper on copyright and innovation and calls for further submissions
    The Copyright Review Committee has today published a wide-ranging Consultation Paper (PDF, 1.4MB) which examines the current Copyright legislative framework to identify any areas of the legislation that might be deemed to create barriers to innovation.
    The fundamental aim of this Paper is to begin the process of sketching reforms to Irish copyright law to further innovation without denying protection to those who need copyright law to innovate.
    The Copyright Review Committee was established on 9th May 2011 by Mr Richard Bruton, TD, Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation with the following terms of reference:
    Examine the present national Copyright legislation and identify any areas that are perceived to create barriers to innovation.
    Identify solutions for removing these barriers and make recommendations as to how these solutions might be implemented through changes to national legislation.
    Examine the US style ‘fair use’ doctrine to see if it would be appropriate in an Irish/EU context.
    If it transpires that national copyright legislation requires to be amended but cannot be amended, (bearing in mind that Irish copyright legislation is bound by the European Communities Directives on Copyright and Related Rights and other international obligations) make recommendations for changes to the EU Directives that will eliminate the barriers to innovation and optimise the balance between protecting creativity and promoting and facilitating innovation.
    The membership of the independent Committee is Dr. Eoin O’Dell (Trinity College Dublin), (Chair), Patricia McGovern (DFMG Solicitors, Dublin) and Prof. SteveHedley (University College, Cork).
    The Consultation Paper is a discussion document which sets out issues and concerns which were expressed to the Committee in submissions from a broad spectrum of interested parties on foot of a consultation, including a public meeting, held last summer. The Committee explores various options to address these concerns in the light of the Terms of Reference and the Paper also poses questions on these matters.
    Some of these questions are broadly categorised under headings such as (i) rights-holders; (ii) collecting societies; (iii) intermediaries; (iv) users; (v) entrepreneurs; (vi) heritage institutions and (vii) fair use. The Committee would stress that the issues and concerns explored in the Paper do not, in any way, represent settled conclusions on its part but rather they are provided for the purpose of stimulating further discussion.
    To this end, the Committee is establishing a further consultation process based on the issues and concerns addressed in the Consultation Paper and are inviting further submissions from all affected or concerned by the issues raised in the Paper including information providers and ISPs, innovators, rights-holders, consumers and end-users. The Committee will then evaluate the further submissions and prepare a Final Report to be submitted to the Government.
    The Committee looks forward to the next round of submissions and to producing a final Report which it is hoped will lead to establishing Irish copyright law on a firm footing to encourage innovation, foster creativity and meet the challenges of the future with confidence.
    The Chair of the Committee, Dr Eoin O'Dell, emphasised that "the process is only at half-time at this stage. We have raised questions and proposed some draft statutory language for the purposes of discussion, to invite a further round of submissions. We were delighted at the number and quality of the first round submissions, and we are looking forward to more of the same. Our Consultation Paper was led by the submissions which we received; and our Final Report will be submission-led too".
    In welcoming the publication today of the Consultation Paper “Copyright and Innovation”, Minister for Research and Innovation, Mr Sean Sherlock, TD, called on all interested parties to engage fully with the on-going work of the Copyright Review Committee. Accordingly, the Minister strongly encourages all those interested in these matters to give careful study to the Consultation Paper and to put forward their views to the Copyright Review Committee.
    Both Ministers also wish to express their gratitude and appreciation to the members of the Copyright Review Committee for their expertise, commitment and time freely given to this onerous task.
    The Consultation Paper (PDF, 1.4MB) is available to download.
    Public Meeting
    A public meeting on copyright and innovation will be held on Saturday 24 March 2012, from 10:00am until 12:00 noon, in Trinity College, Dublin.
    Submissions
    The closing date for submissions on the Consultation Paper will be Friday 13 April 2012.
    Submissions, or expressions of interest in attending the public meeting, should be emailed to copyrightreview@djei.ie or posted to Copyright Review, Room 517, Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Kildare Street, Dublin 2.
    Queries
    Any questions regarding the Review should be emailed to the copyrightreview@djei.ie or phone 01 6312587
    Format of Submissions
    Respondents are requested to make their submissions in writing and, where possible, by email. With regard to the latter, respondents are requested to ensure that electronic submissions are furnished in an unprotected format.
    Confidentiality of Submissions
    Contributors are requested to note that it is the Department’s policy to treat all submissions received as being in the public domain unless confidentiality is specifically requested. Respondents are, therefore, requested to clearly identify material they consider to be confidential and to place same in a separate annex to their response, labelled “confidential”. Where responses are submitted by email, and those emails include automatically generated notices stating that the content of same should be treated as confidential, contributors should clarify in the body of their emails as to whether their comments are to be treated as confidential.
    Relevant provisions of Freedom of Information Act 1997 (as amended)
    Respondents’ attention is drawn to the fact that information provided to the Department may be disclosed in response to a request under the Freedom of Information Act. Therefore, should you consider that any information you provide is commercially sensitive, please identify same, and specify the reason for its sensitivity. The Department will consult with any potentially affected respondent regarding information identified as sensitive before making a decision on any Freedom of Information request.
    Publication of Submissions
    Please note that it is intended to post all submissions as soon as possible after receipt on the Copyright Review website for the purposes of encouraging engagement, unless confidentiality is specifically requested.
    29 February 2012


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Contacted Dessie Ellis (SF) and John Lyons (Lab) - Dublin North West - to tell them what I thought of not getting any reply to my emails from them.

    Just had a phone call from John Lyons representative, so it shows that keeping at them on the issue is a good idea. Very apologetic that they didn't reply to me and they are happy that there is a consultation going on. Also said since I didn't get any reply from Sean Sherlock they would be happy to take it up with him on my behalf. Very nice guy who called me, very competent too.

    And just got an email from Dessie Ellis. Perseverance does pay off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    It's possible to "protect" a PDF to the extent that you can't copy text from it. Maybe that's what they're concerned about?

    It could be about encryption. They don't want to deal with password encrypted documents.
    That's my guess :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDtTkCtHfZA&feature=youtu.be

    And our dear minister is just back from South by South West...for those who don't know it's an Entertainment industry trade show which is for the most part Invite Only...I wonder who sent him his invite...You can technically buy Tix, but they are extremely expensive, so I'm wondering who paid...us or the Entertainment industry?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    so i look into the notice and takedown element and see that is going to be regulated by eu law too whats going to be in the copyright law amendment bill, very little by the end of it i think.

    the consultation document was written by 3 academics, how much it is a reflection of the departments actual intentions, we don't know.

    does the empirical evidence that the copyright review is looking for exist? either way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    meglome wrote: »
    Contacted Dessie Ellis (SF) and John Lyons (Lab) - Dublin North West - to tell them what I thought of not getting any reply to my emails from them.

    Just had a phone call from John Lyons representative, so it shows that keeping at them on the issue is a good idea. Very apologetic that they didn't reply to me and they are happy that there is a consultation going on. Also said since I didn't get any reply from Sean Sherlock they would be happy to take it up with him on my behalf. Very nice guy who called me, very competent too.

    And just got an email from Dessie Ellis. Perseverance does pay off.

    Got a reply from John Lyons TD himself today about this too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    so i look into the notice and takedown and see that going to be regulated by eu law too whats in the copyright law

    very little by the end of it i think

    the consultation document was written by 3 academics how much is it a reflection of the departemnts actual intentions we don't know

    does the evidence the copyright review is looking for exist? either way
    Not to pick on you but.. What?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    DeVore, I saw your tweet to Sherlock about linking to movies. Were you on about links to movies uploaded to say megavideo (were it still up).

    I don't really think he understood the question at all if that's the question you were asking....but then again, that doesn't really surprise me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_


    DeVore, I saw your tweet to Sherlock about linking to movies. Were you on about links to movies uploaded to say megavideo (were it still up).

    I don't really think he understood the question at all if that's the question you were asking....but then again, that doesn't really surprise me.
    Why you no link?

    I had to move.:p

    http://twitter.com/#!/devore


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,651 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    So sean sherlock decided it would be a good idea to try and get in touch with the Rubberbandits via twitter...... lets see what happens

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/03/15/sherlocked/


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Two more replies from Mr Sherlock.I asked what about major IT companies and their views on the SI.

    I have to say--at least hes responding to my questions--A little bit late but better late than never.


    Theres one simple message richie. I met Facebook yesterday and it was a very positive meeting. They have no intention of leaving. I hope you take that as a kindly response to your email.
    Thank you


    Sean

    Sean Sherlock TD
    Minister of State
    No...all is well with google. Regular contact with them across many ongoing issues. I'm meeting them shortly.


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Things may be in flux now... he just confirmed that Boards is not responsible for ANY links on our site it seems. Seriously... I dont know what to make of that.

    Read my timeline for context.

    https://twitter.com/#!/DeVore


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    I dont understand, if Boards is doing nothing wrong by linking to illegal sites then how are ISP's liable for doing the same ? It is the same thing isnt it ? They are doing nothing but acting as a conduit between the user and the illegal sites. So how can they be forced to block them while Boards isnt ?


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