Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

RoundBox11 · 06-03-2012 11:04pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Different type of jumping. Jumping at 2 is all about getting up quick and upper body strength, jumping at 4 is generally about jumping technique and skill. Devin Toner wouldn't be any good at 2 for example because he's too heavy. The tail is completely different again.

And surely its obvious why Heaslip/Ferris couldn't call an international lineout with no experience? (Although I think Heaslip might have a little)

Ah right ok! I didnt realise there was that much to it.

How come big heavy guys like Richie Gray and Bakkies Botha jump at 2 tho? Also doesnt toner jump at 2 quite a bit? when he's with Browne no?

GerM · 06-03-2012 11:05pm

JRant wrote: »

I agree, players shouldn't be dropped because of their age. However we need to build a squad and to do that some of the more senior members are gonna need to take a seat every now and again.
DK playing Sexton at 12 is daft, makes no sense at all other than to give ROG another cap.

Darce was injured against Italy and it made sense to bring ROG on at the weekend in a drop goal game with a few minutes to go. He's a quality drop goal man when the pressure is on, that's undeniable. I'd like to think that if the circumstances were different or D'Arcy had been 100% that change wouldn't have happened as it's nonsensical.

CatFromHue · 06-03-2012 11:19pm

The thing is I find the No.12 jersey for Ireland worrying. We have Wallace in Ulster, no one in Munster (by no one I mean Barnes is not ready for Ireland), McSharry in Connacht and then McFadden and D'arcy in Leinster.

Wallace seems to be let go, wrongly in my opinion, McFadden I think is a better winger, McSharry as far as I know is only establishing himself in Connacht, and D'arcy can do no wrong in Kidney's eyes seemingly. There is also Spence in Ulster but I think he is firmly behind Wallace at this stage.

McFadden when he has played for Ireland it's been at 13 too so is he even in consideration by Kidney for 12? Scotland would be a great time to try him out at 12 and see if he is good enough. I personally would just watch him for the whole game to see myself.

Quint2010 · 06-03-2012 11:28pm

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Ah right ok! I didnt realise there was that much to it.

How come big heavy guys like Richie Gray and Bakkies Botha jump at 2 tho? Also doesnt toner jump at 2 quite a bit? when he's with Browne no?

Martin Johnson jumped at 2 for England and The Lions. Generally the taller player jumps at 4 for the attacking team but there are exceptions to that too. Don't think weight has much to do with it though.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 06-03-2012 11:56pm

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Ah right ok! I didnt realise there was that much to it.

How come big heavy guys like Richie Gray and Bakkies Botha jump at 2 tho? Also doesnt toner jump at 2 quite a bit? when he's with Browne no?

Its not necessarily weight but speed getting up. Toner is a big guy but he isn't the fastest jumper and is a little slow getting into the air.

molloyjh · 07-03-2012 12:05am

Benny Cake wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

Isn't a problem for DOC.

An unfortunate anomaly in my otherwise sound argument

Just to add another one, Sexton hasn't played 12 for Leinster in the last 2-3 seasons IIRC.

shuffol · 07-03-2012 12:12am

CatFromHue wrote: »

The thing is I find the No.12 jersey for Ireland worrying. We have Wallace in Ulster, no one in Munster (by no one I mean Barnes is not ready for Ireland), McSharry in Connacht and then McFadden and D'arcy in Leinster.

Wallace seems to be let go, wrongly in my opinion, McFadden I think is a better winger, McSharry as far as I know is only establishing himself in Connacht, and D'arcy can do no wrong in Kidney's eyes seemingly. There is also Spence in Ulster but I think he is firmly behind Wallace at this stage.

McFadden when he has played for Ireland it's been at 13 too so is he even in consideration by Kidney for 12? Scotland would be a great time to try him out at 12 and see if he is good enough. I personally would just watch him for the whole game to see myself.

I think Mcfaddens the most likely successor to D'arcy, he'll do a decent job but I dont think it'll be a position of relative strength for us. I think he'll eventually be over taken by Hanrahan or Luke Marshall. However if Fitzgerald gets a good run at 12 I think he'll quickly reveal himself to be our best option there. Where he ends up depends a lot on the progress of Dave Kearney and Conway.

ormond lad · 07-03-2012 12:28am

Quint2010 wrote: »

Martin Johnson jumped at 2 for England and The Lions. Generally the taller player jumps at 4 for the attacking team but there are exceptions to that too. Don't think weight has much to do with it though.

Weight doesnt really come into it unless someone is very very heavy. Spring of jumper plays a big role. 2 is as much about getting up into the air first and the jumper getting their arse and shoulder up in front of the opposition jumper so if they meet theyll win the collision.
4 is more whoever gets up into the air higher which as you say quint is generally where the taller jumper goes
2 jumper doesnt necessarily have to be very tall(it obv helps) just has to have a ver good spring

CiaranMT · 07-03-2012 12:44am

Benny Cake wrote: »

Would you then advocate a policy that anyone with zero chance of playing in 2015 be axed to serve the greater good? If so the axe would fall on more than ROG & Darcy... BOD, DOC, POC, Reddan, Ross, Best will all be extremely fortunate if they take part in 2015.

POC will still be around. Wouldn't be surprised to see Reddan around, Best will for sure. Ross is a late comer and should still be around.

irishbucsfan · 07-03-2012 9:27am

RoundBox11 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Different type of jumping. Jumping at 2 is all about getting up quick and upper body strength, jumping at 4 is generally about jumping technique and skill. Devin Toner wouldn't be any good at 2 for example because he's too heavy. The tail is completely different again.

And surely its obvious why Heaslip/Ferris couldn't call an international lineout with no experience? (Although I think Heaslip might have a little)

Ah right ok! I didnt realise there was that much to it.

How come big heavy guys like Richie Gray and Bakkies Botha jump at 2 tho? Also doesnt toner jump at 2 quite a bit? when he's with Browne no?

Toner does jump there for Leinster. Again thats another part to it. There is a big difference between jumping at 2 and 4 offensively and defensively. Toner is probably a good example of it. Toner wouldn't be quick enough up to ever be as good at 2 as Cullen or McLoughlin in defense, but then his height makes him pretty impossible to compete with anywhere in the lineout offensively.

And weight absolutely does make a difference. Not that its more important than being a strong jumper or having good hands. They're all massive athletes but its definitely easier to launch Kevin McLoughlin into the air than Devin Toner.

irishbucsfan · 07-03-2012 11:08am

So given we know what Kidney is like we can guess the team will be as unchanged as possible. (Ie Ryan and Reddan the only changes).

Where should we go about beating Scotland?

Fishooks12 · 07-03-2012 11:12am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

So given we know what Kidney is like we can guess the team will be as unchanged as possible. (Ie Ryan and Reddan the only changes).

Where should we go about beating Scotland?

Thornley has been on the ball so far with team selection so I reckon that will be it

He reckons Toner will be on the bench though, I´d have him there ahead of M McCarthy

irishbucsfan · 07-03-2012 11:19am

Fishooks12 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

So given we know what Kidney is like we can guess the team will be as unchanged as possible. (Ie Ryan and Reddan the only changes).

Where should we go about beating Scotland?

Thornley has been on the ball so far with team selection so I reckon that will be it

He reckons Toner will be on the bench though, I´d have him there ahead of M McCarthy

I didn't even know Toner was in the squad!

If thornley has predicted it then that's it I'd guess.

Fishooks12 · 07-03-2012 11:26am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I didn't even know Toner was in the squad!

If thornley has predicted it then that's it I'd guess.

neither did I which is weird. Maybe he was involved in the same capacity as Zebo. If that were the reckoning it would mean Toner on the bench and McCarthy in reserve

.ak · 07-03-2012 11:28am

Probably reading between the lines but Toner was sitting beside us in Bear (Heaslip/Jo Burger's new restaurant) on monday night. Eating a load of nosh. I thought the squad had to eat a particular diet on match weeks, also would he not be down in Limerick if he was to be part of the squad?

Fishooks12 · 07-03-2012 11:31am

.ak wrote: »

Probably reading between the lines but Toner was sitting beside us in Bear (Heaslip/Jo Burger's new restaurant) on monday night. Eating a load of nosh. I thought the squad had to eat a particular diet on match weeks, also would he not be down in Limerick if he was to be part of the squad?

POC was eating there last week according to his twitter so I´m not sure if that would matter but he must be training witht he squad if Thornley reckons he could be on the bench

phog · 07-03-2012 11:34am

Quinny tweeted a photo of O'Connell in a leg brace

https://twitter.com/#!/AlanQuinlan1/status/177337818471870466/photo/1

JustinDee · 07-03-2012 11:34am

.ak wrote: »

Probably reading between the lines but Toner was sitting beside us in Bear (Heaslip/Jo Burger's new restaurant) on monday night. Eating a load of nosh. I thought the squad had to eat a particular diet on match weeks, also would he not be down in Limerick if he was to be part of the squad?

Squad are in Carton. Not Limerick.
The players eat according to a planned regime that is specific to each individually. Whatever they're eating is within the recommendations of the team nutritionist.

.ak · 07-03-2012 11:43am

Ah didn't know they were in Carton. Thanks JD. So that would be plausible that he was in Dublin city center on monday on a match week?

justsomebloke · 07-03-2012 11:44am

.ak wrote: »

Probably reading between the lines but Toner was sitting beside us in Bear (Heaslip/Jo Burger's new restaurant) on monday night. Eating a load of nosh. I thought the squad had to eat a particular diet on match weeks,

At Toner's height and weight I wouldn't be surprised if he was on the see it diet, so I wouldn't look to much into it

JustinDee · 07-03-2012 11:46am

.ak wrote: »

Ah didn't know they were in Carton. Thanks JD. So that would be plausible that he was in Dublin city centre on monday on a match week?

Yep. Only a short drive into town from Maynooth. He would have been out for a bite before heading to Carton.

desertcircus · 07-03-2012 11:48am

justsomebloke wrote: »

.ak wrote: »

Probably reading between the lines but Toner was sitting beside us in Bear (Heaslip/Jo Burger's new restaurant) on monday night. Eating a load of nosh. I thought the squad had to eat a particular diet on match weeks,

At Toner's height and weight I wouldn't be surprised if he was on the see it diet, so I wouldn't look to much into it

Yeah, he must need to take in an unbelievable amount of calories. At 120 kilos and being a professional athlete, he's probably running in the region of five thousand calories a day.

irishbucsfan · 07-03-2012 11:48am

No reason Toner wouldn't be eating loads of food, especially on a Monday. He's humungous!

.ak · 07-03-2012 11:49am

Well I'd love to see him start. He's been up against the Scottish second row already this season and came up trumps imo.

part time punk · 07-03-2012 12:01pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

So given we know what Kidney is like we can guess the team will be as unchanged as possible. (Ie Ryan and Reddan the only changes).

Where should we go about beating Scotland?

Is anyone else actually a little bit worried about this game? Think it's only a matter of time before everything clicks for Scotland, although hopefully that's against Italy and not us. Haven't seen much of them but think they've been a bit unlucky with their results, the sin binnings and a certain try disallowed against Wales. Some of the stats on this thread show them with the highest number of passes, offloads and line breaks? Robinson seems to be getting his selection better now and they'll have Euan Murray back as it's not a Sunday game.

I think their line out could tear ours to shreds. Very concerned about DOC/Ryan partnership not functioning properly in the line out and scrum. Devin Toner was on Phantom FM last Saturday afternoon and he was talking about having a couple of weeks off. Although that was before O'Connel's injury obviously, seems odd if he's involved given McCarthy was called up. But Thornley is rarely wrong in these matters!

Anyway we need to keep the ball in play and in hand as much as possible, shorten lineouts on our ball, need the intensity in defence of the first half against France, take our kickable penalties, stretch the Scottish defence, compete at the breakdown, need more big games from the big players, avoid mistakes and score more points than Scotland and we'll win.

I'm available to coach your team for a small fee.

irishbucsfan · 07-03-2012 12:09pm

Their centres are barely magners league standard. That gives me a little bit of hope.

Fishooks12 · 07-03-2012 12:20pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Their centres are barely magners league standard. That gives me a little bit of hope.

De Luca is dnagerous when on form, notoriously inconsistant though

Morrison won´t be found wanting in defence either

WeleaseWoderick · 07-03-2012 12:23pm

Looking at the squad training photos from yesterday, Toner is definitely training with the team. As is Luke Fitzgerald.

07-03-2012 12:24pm

I'd be the opposite. I expect us to click for this game.

I'm heavily on the Irish side of the HC

Fishooks12 · 07-03-2012 12:25pm

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

Looking at the squad training photos from yesterday, Toner is definitely training with the team. As is Luke Fitzgerald.

Interesting. Trimble need a big game tomorrow or I reckon he could be involved against England

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Comments