Argentina Drags Politics to London 2012

cherryghost · 30-11-2011 1:19am #1

Mods, feel free to move this to the appropriate forum as I couldn't find anything more suitable than the politics forum.

In another update in the Argentina vs England claim of the Falkland islands, Argentina has moved with a draft proposal for their new Olympic 2012 crest. The crest is simply two ribbons either side of the Falkland islands, the ribbons dressed in Argentina colours, with the words 'Las Islas Malvinas son argentinas' emblazed across it. This literally translates into 'The Malvinas islands are Argentine'.

It currently hasn't got that much press interest but if pressed ahead it would certainly put a dent into not only the English-Argentine relations, but the olympic spirits itself.

This only garnered my attention as my wife is Argentine, who is pretty much disgusted by the move that was pressed by the president herself, according to local media in Argentina. I too think its a pretty cowardly way to get their message across and just add further tension between the two countries.

So what do others think of this move? Will it ruin the spirit of the olympics? Are Argentina going a step too far? Should politics be dragged into the olympic games in this manner?

Slightly more detailed article here

OS119 · 30-11-2011 11:12am

i'm happy with it - it merely makes the Argentine political class and the people who vote for them look even more ridiculous that they do normally.

whatstherush · 30-11-2011 11:19am

Did England not set a precedent by insisting they wear the poppy at a football game recently.

ednwireland · 30-11-2011 11:22am

Enderman wrote: »

So what do others think of this move? Will it ruin the spirit of the olympics? Are Argentina going a step too far? Should politics be dragged into the olympic games in this manner?

that was ruined a long time ago

although i do have my holidays booked and tickets to a couple of events

I am pie · 30-11-2011 12:07pm

Out of interest OP do you have a link to anywhere (spanish is fine) other than the MercoSur Free Press ? Coincidentally my fiancé is also Argentine !

She's no fan of the current government but like most Argies is fairly passionate on the Malvinas question ! We tend not to talk about it too much : )

Not disputing your story, but I'm interested to read it as i couldn't find it in Clarín or La Nacion ?

Cheers

goose2005 · 30-11-2011 12:15pm

I hope the Brits respond by asking the Americans to return the 13 colonies.

cherryghost · 30-11-2011 12:17pm

Hi I am Pie. It wasn't covered on Diario Clarin YET, but was covered last week in Yahoo Argentina news, and El Diario to name but a few.

Forgot to post the draft crest last night:

JustinDee · 30-11-2011 12:19pm

Enderman wrote: »

Mods, feel free to move this to the appropriate forum as I couldn't find anything more suitable than the politics forum.

In another update in the Argentina vs England claim of the Falkland islands, Argentina has moved with a draft proposal for their new Olympic 2012 crest. The crest is simply two ribbons either side of the Falkland islands, the ribbons dressed in Argentina colours, with the words 'Las Islas Malvinas son argentinas' emblazed across it. This literally translates into 'The Malvinas islands are Argentine'.

It currently hasn't got that much press interest but if pressed ahead it would certainly put a dent into not only the English-Argentine relations, but the olympic spirits itself.

This only garnered my attention as my wife is Argentine, who is pretty much disgusted by the move that was pressed by the president herself, according to local media in Argentina. I too think its a pretty cowardly way to get their message across and just add further tension between the two countries.

So what do others think of this move? Will it ruin the spirit of the olympics? Are Argentina going a step too far? Should politics be dragged into the olympic games in this manner?

Slightly more detailed article here

Its only a submission. People send all sorts to be considered by committees like that, I'd venture to say.
An article with very little to it but sensationalism methinks.

coffeetogo · 30-11-2011 12:20pm

Every Olympics has had politics dragged into it in some shape or form.

The IOC are similar, but as evil as, FIFA when it comes to turnign a blind eye for the sake of keeping their sponsors onside.

The Olympics hasn't been about the Olympic spirit in a long time, the dollar rules the roost and people won't care about conflicts between two countries as long as athletes, TV stations and spectators turn out.

This point that Argentina are trying to make will be completely diluted by everyone involved.

cherryghost · 30-11-2011 12:21pm

JustinDee wrote: »

Its only a submission. People send all sorts to be considered by committees like that, I'd venture to say.
An article with very little to it but sensationalism methinks.

It's a submission supported by more than 5 political parties, so it's been taken very seriously over there at the moment, or so I'm told

User Friendly · 30-11-2011 12:21pm

whatstherush wrote: »

Did England not set a precedent by insisting they wear the poppy at a football game recently.

Different competition,nothing to do with the Olympics.

JustinDee · 30-11-2011 12:23pm

Enderman wrote: »

It's a submission supported by more than 5 political parties, so it's been taken very seriously over there at the moment, or so I'm told

Its just populist tosh. Will never see the light of day.
A viral spark that catches on over airwaves or in print. Will fizzle out as quickly.

JustinDee · 30-11-2011 12:24pm

User Friendly wrote: »

Different competition,nothing to do with the Olympics.

Nor was it a political statement.

I am pie · 30-11-2011 12:27pm

Enderman wrote: »

Hi I am Pie. It wasn't covered on Diario Clarin YET, but was covered last week in Yahoo Argentina news, and El Diario to name but a few.

Forgot to post the draft crest last night:

There it is !

I reckon this is partly in response to the UK sending their prince and future king over there to irritate them in his helicoptor.

Personally I think it's OTT. I know herself may have a different view however !

getz · 30-11-2011 12:28pm

Enderman wrote: »

Mods, feel free to move this to the appropriate forum as I couldn't find anything more suitable than the politics forum.

In another update in the Argentina vs England claim of the Falkland islands, Argentina has moved with a draft proposal for their new Olympic 2012 crest. The crest is simply two ribbons either side of the Falkland islands, the ribbons dressed in Argentina colours, with the words 'Las Islas Malvinas son argentinas' emblazed across it. This literally translates into 'The Malvinas islands are Argentine'.

It currently hasn't got that much press interest but if pressed ahead it would certainly put a dent into not only the English-Argentine relations, but the olympic spirits itself.

This only garnered my attention as my wife is Argentine, who is pretty much disgusted by the move that was pressed by the president herself, according to local media in Argentina. I too think its a pretty cowardly way to get their message across and just add further tension between the two countries.

So what do others think of this move? Will it ruin the spirit of the olympics? Are Argentina going a step too far? Should politics be dragged into the olympic games in this manner?

Slightly more detailed article here

falklands always raises latin tempers,i remember during the falklands war,i went to spain on holiday and we kept waiting at malaga airport as the spanish played,andrew loyed webbers dont cry for me argentina,over the speakers ,my wife is from gib and she was mad as hell.

trendyvicar · 30-11-2011 12:34pm

Argentina - another bunch of clowns who don't know the meaning of self determination.

irishh_bob · 30-11-2011 12:46pm

Enderman wrote: »

Mods, feel free to move this to the appropriate forum as I couldn't find anything more suitable than the politics forum.

In another update in the Argentina vs England claim of the Falkland islands, Argentina has moved with a draft proposal for their new Olympic 2012 crest. The crest is simply two ribbons either side of the Falkland islands, the ribbons dressed in Argentina colours, with the words 'Las Islas Malvinas son argentinas' emblazed across it. This literally translates into 'The Malvinas islands are Argentine'.

It currently hasn't got that much press interest but if pressed ahead it would certainly put a dent into not only the English-Argentine relations, but the olympic spirits itself.

This only garnered my attention as my wife is Argentine, who is pretty much disgusted by the move that was pressed by the president herself, according to local media in Argentina. I too think its a pretty cowardly way to get their message across and just add further tension between the two countries.

So what do others think of this move? Will it ruin the spirit of the olympics? Are Argentina going a step too far? Should politics be dragged into the olympic games in this manner?

Slightly more detailed article here

i visited argentina in 2004 , its a cliche at this stage to say such and such a country should be wealthy but this is certainly the case with argentina , millions of acres of the best land on earth , great climate , buenos aires is a fantastic city and stylish in places

as for the falklands , i spoke to argentinians while i was there and i was surprised by the number of people who were opposed to the invasion by thier army in 1982 , seems the goverment use the issue as a populist rallying call whenever support is weaning

getz · 30-11-2011 12:51pm

trendyvicar wrote: »

Argentina - another bunch of clowns who don't know the meaning of self determination.

the argentina people are lovely but are easily guided ,every time thing are going wrong at home,they bring up the island question,when they invaded last time ,the soldiers believed that they were liberating the island from british oppression,and the locals were going to greet them with open arms,

I am pie · 30-11-2011 12:53pm

Many are/were opposed to the war, but you be hard pushed to find anyone over there who would even say 'The Falkland Islands' never mind consent that they are not Argentine !

As to why the country has failed to become a wealthy to the extent it possibly could have, I would argue they have fallen victim to Populism in the form of Peronism and have never really had a mature relationship with the US. Too much of their focus is around trade restrictions and artificial promotion of an internal/local market.

US interference in the whole region (see Operation Condor amongst others) sowed the seeds for some very disfunctional dictatorships to remain in power for too long in the whole region.

getz · 30-11-2011 1:20pm

I am pie wrote: »

Many are/were opposed to the war, but you be hard pushed to find anyone over there who would even say 'The Falkland Islands' never mind consent that they are not Argentine !

As to why the country has failed to become a wealthy to the extent it possibly could have, I would argue they have fallen victim to Populism in the form of Peronism and have never really had a mature relationship with the US. Too much of their focus is around trade restrictions and artificial promotion of an internal/local market.

US interference in the whole region (see Operation Condor amongst others) sowed the seeds for some very disfunctional dictatorships to remain in power for too long in the whole region.

its not going to turn into one of those,lets blame the yanks threads is it ?

I am pie · 30-11-2011 1:51pm

getz wrote: »

its not going to turn into one of those,lets blame the yanks threads is it ?

What ? Why so sensitive ?

Did you miss the bit where i mentioned populism / peronism ?

Anyway. I'm done here. Definitely not getting into a 'Argentina's Problem Is...' thread with you. No interest ! ...i can get that from my OH, in-laws & argie friends anytime I need to have that particular conversation.

trendyvicar · 30-11-2011 3:40pm

getz wrote: »

the argentina people are lovely but are easily guided ,every time thing are going wrong at home,they bring up the island question,when they invaded last time ,the soldiers believed that they were liberating the island from british oppression,and the locals were going to greet them with open arms,

Sounds very like The Irish used to be manipulated regarding Northern Ireland. Must be a Catholic thing.

trendyvicar · 30-11-2011 3:49pm

I am pie wrote: »

Many are/were opposed to the war, but you be hard pushed to find anyone over there who would even say 'The Falkland Islands' never mind consent that they are not Argentine !

As to why the country has failed to become a wealthy to the extent it possibly could have, I would argue they have fallen victim to Populism in the form of Peronism and have never really had a mature relationship with the US. Too much of their focus is around trade restrictions and artificial promotion of an internal/local market.

US interference in the whole region (see Operation Condor amongst others) sowed the seeds for some very disfunctional dictatorships to remain in power for too long in the whole region.

Operation Condor was not US led, it was an alliance between 'southern cone' countries including Argentina and Chile with US input. It was extremely successful and literally smashed the 'left' (both democratic and militant) in the 'southern cone' arena. It completely debunked the nonsense that 'liberal democracies' mouthed about the impossibility of crushing insurrectionary movements in places such as Northern Ireland. Needless to say, no 'yellow cards' were issued!

Chile became successful economically under Pinochet.

Killer Pigeon · 30-11-2011 3:52pm

I just don't understand why the Argentinians are so passionate about the Falklands. I mean there are probably near zero Argentinians living on the damn islands in the first place and the Falklands have been traditionally British. Britain held the claim to the Falklands long before Argentina did, plus there were no indigenous people living on the islands before the Europeans came. I mean, won't they just give it a rest like.

BlaasForRafa · 30-11-2011 4:10pm

trendyvicar wrote: »

Operation Condor was not US led, it was an alliance between 'southern cone' countries including Argentina and Chile with US input. It was extremely successful and literally smashed the 'left' (both democratic and militant) in the 'southern cone' arena. It completely debunked the nonsense that 'liberal democracies' mouthed about the impossibility of crushing insurrectionary movements in places such as Northern Ireland. Needless to say, no 'yellow cards' were issued!

Chile became successful economically under Pinochet.

And the whole "disappearing" of thousands of people was just a by-product of that political agenda was it?

Fratton Fred · 30-11-2011 4:12pm

Guatemala still claims ownership of Belize. A claim based entirely on the 1494 treaty of Tordesillas. I believe this gets dragged up every now and then to unify the people.

If Argentina wanted to make a deal of the Falklands, why wasn't it raised at the Rugby World cup?

JustinDee · 30-11-2011 4:24pm

trendyvicar wrote: »

Operation Condor was not US led, it was an alliance between 'southern cone' countries including Argentina and Chile with US input. It was extremely successful and literally smashed the 'left' (both democratic and militant) in the 'southern cone' arena. It completely debunked the nonsense that 'liberal democracies' mouthed about the impossibility of crushing insurrectionary movements in places such as Northern Ireland. Needless to say, no 'yellow cards' were issued!

Chile became successful economically under Pinochet.

Oh peace.
I am by no means anti-US or anti-West etc but the above is the worst and most monocular passage of apologeticism possible on the subject of regime manipulation in South America.
There was far more than just "US input" involved. The US had vested interests in the region. As did the USSR with the regimes they influenced.
It was a win-at-all-costs theatre of proxyism.

Me senses say 'resub' when I read your posts.

I am pie · 30-11-2011 5:06pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Guatemala still claims ownership of Belize. A claim based entirely on the 1494 treaty of Tordesillas. I believe this gets dragged up every now and then to unify the people.

If Argentina wanted to make a deal of the Falklands, why wasn't it raised at the Rugby World cup?

Either they felt the Rugby World Cup (rightly or wrongly) it was not a big enough stage, that it was particularly prescient given the Olympics is in the UK or (and i can't remember and haven't checked) Prince Wills hadn't been sent over with his helicoptor to the Falklands to annoy the mainland neighbours yet !

trendyvicar · 30-11-2011 5:15pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

And the whole "disappearing" of thousands of people was just a by-product of that political agenda was it?

It wasn't a by-product - it was implicit in the entire process. Whilst Ireland sat on it's collective ar*e during the cold war (as usual), people like Pinochet took the war to the Marxist enemy.

trendyvicar · 30-11-2011 5:19pm

JustinDee wrote: »

Oh peace.
I am by no means anti-US or anti-West etc but the above is the worst and most monocular passage of apologeticism possible on the subject of regime manipulation in South America.
There was far more than just "US input" involved. The US had vested interests in the region. As did the USSR with the regimes they influenced.
It was a win-at-all-costs theatre of proxyism.

Me senses say 'resub' when I read your posts.

I was talking about operation Condor specifically, not about The US policy in general.

Fratton Fred · 30-11-2011 6:39pm

I am pie wrote: »

Either they felt the Rugby World Cup (rightly or wrongly) it was not a big enough stage, that it was particularly prescient given the Olympics is in the UK or (and i can't remember and haven't checked) Prince Wills hadn't been sent over with his helicoptor to the Falklands to annoy the mainland neighbours yet !

There are 2000 British service personnel in the falklands, along with a pair of eurofighter typhoons, but one guy in a rescue helicopter is upsetting the Argentines.

Oh please.

This whole thing is some jumped up ejit trying to get a bit of publicity with a bogus crest for the olympics.

Argentina Drags Politics to London 2012

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