"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

Aard · 28-11-2011 6:28pm

Flukey wrote: »

There wasn't any mention in the documentation that came with the Leap card for volunteers as to whether it would be possible to keep it and use it after the test period, or if it would purely have validity until the 7th of December.

From what I can make out, the 7 Dec deadline is when you have to have completed your online survey. The credit will remain on the card, which will still be usable afterwards.

Aard · 28-11-2011 6:48pm

I used my leap card twice today on DB. All fairly smooth with no real problems. €1.85 fares both times.

The first driver seemed pretty enthusiastic about me using the card. Like somebody above, I held my card at an angle to the reader (i.e. with my thumb under it) but he said to hold it flat against the reader. I think this is a bit odd, but maybe they can increase the RFID range on it or something. It'd be handy not to have to take the card out of your wallet too.

On the way back the busstop was pretty busy, and it took the driver a second to realise that I wasn't paying with cash. (I assume this is just teething problems though.) There was a kind of awkward pause when I left the card on the reader for too long, and he said cheerily "the fare should be taken off now!". There was no beep or anything like there is on the other readers. I think this is a major flaw because a beep would let you know that the right amount has been deducted and the transaction is complete. It's a punctual end to the cumbersome interaction with the driver.

So in all a good experience, and kudos to the friendly helpful drivers.

However, I still can't get over the stupidity of the €2.20 fare for the right-hand-side reader. How am I to know that I'm travelling 14+ stages without asking the driver in the first place. Messy. It should be €1.90, which I'd almost prefer to pay instead of the €1.85 for a few reasons:

It's only €0.05 more. You'd have to travel 37 times before you've "wasted" a fare.
No interaction with the driver. Not a dig at drivers, but it means I get my seat faster.
I'd often have stuff to do in a few places around town, and even though I might plan to go to Parnell St I might get off at SSG -- or vice versa. The difference between the two is €1.85 vs €2.30. A €1.90 ticket would allow sponteneity without wasting a huge amount of money. (Or indeed risking a fine.)

goingnowhere · 28-11-2011 7:00pm

Aard wrote: »

There was no beep or anything like there is on the other readers. I think this is a major flaw because a beep would let you know that the right amount has been deducted and the transaction is complete. It's a punctual end to the cumbersome interaction with the driver.

There is a beep, a green light and the fare charged and the stage number and name are shown on the two line screen just above the smart card target. The beep isn't very loud

The card works fine through a wallet, provided you place the wallet down with the card as close to the machine as possible. If there is any other RFID cards in place, odds are it won't work

Flukey · 28-11-2011 7:25pm

It is a bit indeterminate when you are quickly scanning it with the driver. I used it on the bus on Friday, and I wasn't 100% sure it scanned properly, although the driver seemed happy, though a little surprised to see a Leap card. My doubts were confirmed later when I used it on the Luas and I saw by my balance that it had not been debited on the bus. (I have my annual pass anyway, so I wasn't fare-dodging

) That is another reason why I was more careful about it today on the bus to make sure it scanned with the driver. It's no surprise to any of us that Dublin Bus seems to be the weak link in the whole system in lots of ways.

AlekSmart · 28-11-2011 7:50pm

markpb wrote: »

You know quite well that this won't happen. There was _never_ any intention of changing the fare/ticket situation - the card is just a carrier for the existing tickets along with an ePurse which will make life easier for people making 1.20/1.65 trips.

Indeed Markpb,but knowing quite well,yet remaining thoroughly disgusted that the expensive exalted beings in charge of the ITS project refused to contemplate taking the principle to it's fullest are two very different sensations.

I would also question just how much easier the €1.20/€1.65 payers lives will be,as this current vision of Leap does nothing,of itself to move them onto SmartCard technology per se.

If you want them to come then DISCOUNT IT :eek:

This would attract the volumes required to challenge the reality of long Dwell Times,but,would also rapidly underline the nonsense of the approach-the-bench situation we now appear to have in perpetuity.

Aard: So in all a good experience, and kudos to the friendly helpful drivers.

However, I still can't get over the stupidity of the €2.20 fare for the right-hand-side reader. How am I to know that I'm travelling 14+ stages without asking the driver in the first place. Messy. It should be €1.90, which I'd almost prefer to pay instead of the €1.85 for a few reasons:

It's only €0.05 more. You'd have to travel 37 times before you've "wasted" a fare.
No interaction with the driver. Not a dig at drivers, but it means I get my seat faster.
I'd often have stuff to do in a few places around town, and even though I might plan to go to Parnell St I might get off at SSG -- or vice versa. The difference between the two is €1.85 vs €2.30. A €1.90 ticket would allow sponteneity without wasting a huge amount of money. (Or indeed risking a fine.)

Well put Aard,and one would hope these sentiments are noted well by the ITS board and acted upon.

What few appear to realise is that 21st Century ITS/Leap technology cannot be simply overllaid atop a 19th Century Fare Stage system and expected to work with any degree of achievable benefit to anybody.

Aard's well and simply made point regarding Fare Stage Identification has been repeatedly made by myself and others on here and elsewhere for years now yet remains totally unappreciated never mind unaddressed.

I would venture to suggest that Leap operation,as currently configured with Bus Atha Cliath is unsustainable unless the company immediately re-identify the Fare-Stage locations they so thoroughly erased in recent times.

No interaction with the driver,means I get my seat faster.

For crying out loud,could it be made any clearer,Aard even makes a nice marketable PR blurb capable of being imprinted on every Leap Card as a marketing tag....IF the 12 years and €40 Million had produced somebody who actually used the bloody Bus service and understood the futility of persevering with oul God's time in the face of high sped electronics...it's worse than GUBU I tell ya..:D

Goingnowhere:The card works fine through a wallet, provided you place the wallet down with the card as close to the machine as possible. If there is any other RFID cards in place, odds are it won't work

It is worthwhile reinforcing Goingnowhere's experience in the light of the Driver interaction thing here.....If you have an IE or Luas Smartcard in the same wallet/purse compartment they will conflict and result in an error message....Result= DELAY.

Tip-Keep the Leap Card in a seperate fold-out section if you don't want to end up fumbling for cards...oh wait....fumbling for......eh...I thought that was all finished with now....??????

Just for clarification,I think the Leap Card represents the first REAL opportunity to revolutionize how Dubliners use their Public Transport,BUT It needs to be appreciated as the technological marvel it is,rather than being seen as some form of bothersome new technology to buttress a long outdated "system" of limited value in the 21st Century.

AngryLips · 28-11-2011 8:06pm

Aard wrote: »

I still can't get over the stupidity of the €2.20 fare for the right-hand-side reader.

The card isn't going to result in more people queueing for the driver on the left over the tag-on facility on the right as it's only an epurse for the moment. Obviously, it's a missed opportunity that will no doubt soon be addressed.

The Oyster card works the same way in that you can't just swipe over the reader, it needs to be held for a moment.

The one thing I'm not clear on is whether or not the leap card has a negative balance facility like the luas smart card.

Aard · 28-11-2011 8:07pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

There is a beep, a green light and the fare charged and the stage number and name are shown on the two line screen just above the smart card target. The beep isn't very loud

The card works fine through a wallet, provided you place the wallet down with the card as close to the machine as possible. If there is any other RFID cards in place, odds are it won't work

The fare, balance, and stage name is handy alright. I mustn't have heard the beep over the hustle and bustle.

I'll try the card through my wallet so. I got the impression that the card itself had to be physically flat against the reader, but it was probably just the driver being cautious.

ScouseMouse · 28-11-2011 8:09pm

The Leap posters and signs were delivered to my shop on sunday evening.

The girl told me it was going to be in full use on monday week.

AlekSmart · 28-11-2011 8:23pm

AngryLips wrote: »

The one thing I'm not clear on is whether or not the leap card has a negative balance facility like the luas smart card.

Yes AngryLips,Leap will allow the transaction which puts it into negative equity,then debiting the top-up amount for the shortfall.

bk · 28-11-2011 10:44pm

Well I gave Leap a thorough testing in Dublin City over the past two hours and so far it only gets a barely passing market. Lots of trouble with it.

Firstly my story started three days ago when I purchased a Leap card in the Mace shop by James Hospital. However I was charged only €5 which is just the deposit, so the card wasn't activated and had no credit.

I couldn't activate it or load it at a LUAS machine.

Then yesterday I went into Londis next store to the Costa Coffee and Starbucks by College Green. They had never heard of the Leap card, but I told them it was just like the LUAS card and could they try. They obliged and to every ones surprise it worked fine and they could activate it and top it up.

However they made a mistake. While I asked for €10 top up, they charged it like it was a new card (but I didn't get a new card), with €5 deposit, so I only ended up with €5 credit.

So far I'd spent €15 on this and ended up with only €5 credit.

Interestingly the very nice guys in Londis were very interested in this new card and we spent a few minutes chatting about it. At first they assumed you would get a cheaper fare for using multiple trips. When I told them it doesn't work like that, you pay for each trip separately, they were very disappointed and said "what is the point so?"

I think that is going to be the response of many ordinary people to this.

Tried it on the bus and it worked fine, but it took the driver some time to realise what I was doing. Time for me to pay was actually slower then cash!!

Also I didn't hear the beep when the transaction completed, any time I used it on the bus. It isn't obvious when you can remove your card and this slows things down.

Second time I paid on the bus, I was charged twice!! I put the card on the reader and the driver seemed to charged me twice, he actually ended up printing a ticket that said ITS purchase, with the bus number, route, Leap card number, previous balance, etc.

While the info was interesting, by doing so I was charged €1.65 twice for the same journey.

On arriving in town I took a stroll over to the LUAS machines, I no had only 5 cent balance (having been charged €1.65 three times for two journeys) and I was able to top up no problem using the LUAS machine.

I was then able to Tag On, travel to Connolly, and Tag Off without any problems.

At Connolly I tried the Leap card in the IR ticket machines, but they didn't recognise it. I can confirm the same at Tara and Pearse station ticket machines. So it seems the IR machines aren't compatible with Leap yet. This is a very big pity for people who normally use DART, Rail to travel. They have to go to Luas machines or DB shops to top up. Hopefully this is just a temporary issue.

However I was able to tag on to the DART at Connolly no problem and Tag Off at Pearse no problem, so it seems the gates have no problem reading and using the Leap cards.

I then took Dublin Bike to cycle back to O'Connell St. Amazing how much faster it is then the DART or Bus. They really need to add Dublin Bike to the Leap card.

Good news, I was able to use the Leap card on LUAS and DART without taking the card out of the wallet. Even with the Dublin Bikes card in the same wallet. Didn't try it on the bus in my wallet, don't want to give the drivers a heart attack until they are use to it.

So after my adventures, not including the unnecessary journeys, I'm down nearly €10 due to badly trained store and bus staff.

So in summary, lots of bugs in the system:

1) Store staff are inadequately trained in the card.
2) Luas machines should be able to activate and top up even inactivated cards.
3) Bus Drivers are inadequately trained in the card (e.g. charged twice).
4) The three times I used it on the bus, it took longer then to pay by cash. This card might actually increase bus dwell times rather hen reduce it.
5) The beep at the end of the transaction on the bus needs to be much louder.
6) The Irish Rail ticket machines don't recognise the card and you can't top it up on them.

A few other things, I think Luas will need more tag on and tag off machines at stops if this becomes popular. Likewise I think Dublin Bus should install some automated Leap ticket machines at busy locations like the DB shop on O'Connell St, Dublin Airport and perhaps even some on the street at busy locations.

I saw the bloody results of a fight on Abbey Street next to the station with the LUAS security and Revenue Protection guys busily looking the other way.
The Abbey streets stops are really very unsafe places and need to be heavily policed by the Gardai (preferably by a dedicated transport unit).

Connolly and Pearse (in particular) should be way better sign posted for entrance and exits to the DART platforms, as a non regular user, they are quiet confusing.

bk · 28-11-2011 10:45pm

Oh and is there anyway for me to send my feedback to the NTA?

www.leapcard.ie isn't working and there is no feedback form for leap on www.transportforireland.ie

AlekSmart · 28-11-2011 11:00pm

bk wrote: »

Firstly my story started three days ago when I purchased a Leap card in the Mace shop by James Hospital. However I was charged only €5 which is just the deposit, so the card wasn't activated and had no credit.

This I fear is the source of at least some of the issues you've had bk.

I suspect that MACE outlet jumped the gun by retailing Leap stock during the final test phase....(The "chosen" 500).

This could well entail your particular Leap card being now a corrupted one in some way,which may result in a total-failure during some upgrade phase later on.

I'd be inclined to ditch it and purchase another one after the official intro is announced ?

bk · 28-11-2011 11:06pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

This I fear is the source of at least some of the issues you've had bk.

Honestly I don't think so. Once activated and topped up, it worked fine.

While the mace shop might have jumped the gun, I don't expect my card will be any different to Leap cards that go on sale officially.

That is why I'd like to make sure the NTA get my feedback. I believe my experience will be the closest to what ordinary people will experience when it goes on general sale. Rather then the 500 "testers" who got pre-activated and pre-topped up cards.

I think my experience is a more "real world" test.

It would be interesting to hear if anyone else has tried their Leap card in the Irish Rail ticket machines?

markpb · 28-11-2011 11:07pm

bk wrote: »

Firstly my story started three days ago when I purchased a Leap card in the Mace shop by James Hospital. However I was charged only €5 which is just the deposit, so the card wasn't activated and had no credit.

Like I keep saying, the system is in pilot, the cards aren't available to the public and the shop shouldn't have sold you the card yet. The whole idea of the private pilot is to allow time for shop and bus staff to be trained up and get used to it. If you jump the gun and barge in on a pilot, you have to accept that there will be problems (this is why the pilot cards are pre-loaded with €20). Clearly it's not your fault that the shop staff sold you a card that they shouldn't have but you've been told here several times that it's not a public launch

I couldn't activate it or load it at a LUAS machine.

There's no need because the shops are meant to activate the cards.

I was able to use the Leap card on LUAS and DART without taking the card out of the wallet. Even with the Dublin Bikes card in the same wallet.

I'm surprised at that but I suspect it won't happen every time. If I have two Luas cards in my wallet, the machines will sometimes pick one at random and other times reject both (as is the spec for ISO14443).

A few other things, I think Luas will need more tag on and tag off machines at stops if this becomes popular. Likewise I think Dublin Bus should install some automated Leap ticket machines at busy locations like the DB shop on O'Connell St, Dublin Airport and perhaps even some on the street at busy locations.

I totally agree on all points! If nothing else, RPA need to move the Luas card points to better locations - at present people at the end doors have to walk back towards the middle of the tam (slightly) to tag off. DB already have ticket machines at the airport so I presume they can be modified to sell Leap tickets. Issuing smart cards from a TVM is more challenging from a security perspective but it can be done.

bk · 28-11-2011 11:18pm

markpb wrote: »

Like I keep saying, the system is in pilot, the cards aren't available to the public and the shop shouldn't have sold you the card yet. The whole idea of the private pilot is to allow time for shop and bus staff to be trained up and get used to it. If you jump the gun and barge in on a pilot, you have to accept that there will be problems (this is why the pilot cards are pre-loaded with €20). Clearly it's not your fault that the shop staff sold you a card that they shouldn't have but you've been told here several times that it's not a public launch

Yes, but I would contend that my feedback is still probably some of the most useful they could receive.

At least now they have a few weeks to put even more effort into training shop staff and bus drivers and hopefully fix the IR machines.

I don't mind being a guinea pig to help make this the best it can be.

If anyone from the NTA wants to pm me for the details of my card, etc. they are welcome to do so in confidence of course.

markpb · 28-11-2011 11:20pm

bk wrote: »

Yes, but I would contend that my feedback is still probably some of the most useful they could receive.

I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm just hoping you don't write off the project based on your test experiences

AlekSmart · 28-11-2011 11:22pm

Part of bk's problem could well be that the Pilot 500 group of tickets have a specific encoding which your "rogue" one does not.

I would imagine that the loading process is also capable of software upgrading relating to the chip so that adds perhaps a possibility that the RFID chip is not fully operational ?

markpb · 28-11-2011 11:24pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Part of bk's problem could well be that the Pilot 500 group of tickets have a specific encoding which your "rogue" one does not.

I'm sure that the shop forgot to activate the card, nothing more

For security/stock reasons, almost all stored value/transit cards are issued to the shops/TVMs de-activated.

Aard · 28-11-2011 11:26pm

bk wrote: »

Oh and is there anyway for me to send my feedback to the NTA?

www.leapcard.ie isn't working and there is no feedback form for leap on www.transportforireland.ie

On the info sheet the 500 of us got, there's an email address: customer.care@leapcard.ie

I haven't tried it yet, so no idea if it is active.

bk · 28-11-2011 11:35pm

markpb wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm just hoping you don't write off the project based on your test experiences

Oh, not at all, I'm very excited about this.

That is why I'm giving my feedback, to help it be the best it can be.

Aard wrote: »

On the info sheet the 500 of us got, there's an email address: customer.care@leapcard.ie

Cheers I'll try that.

devnull · 28-11-2011 11:44pm

bk wrote: »

Well I gave Leap a thorough testing in Dublin City over the past two hours and so far it only gets a barely passing market. Lots of trouble with it.

The system is still in testing, and from what I have seen there is certainly a difference in behavior of those cards sent out versus the ones which have been sold in shops when they clearly should not have been.

Then yesterday I went into Londis next store to the Costa Coffee and Starbucks by College Green. They had never heard of the Leap card, but I told them it was just like the LUAS card and could they try. They obliged and to every ones surprise it worked fine and they could activate it and top it up.

Why would they? The card has not been released yet and as such the full details have not been distributed to retailers. There was a pilot with a shop in Malahide and a couple of others at the end of last week being test shops to top up the leap card, but there has been no official launch to retailers.

However they made a mistake. While I asked for €10 top up, they charged it like it was a new card (but I didn't get a new card), with €5 deposit, so I only ended up with €5 credit. So far I'd spent €15 on this and ended up with only €5 credit.

It's not surprising they made a mistake, seeing as the card is not released yet and the documentation and instructions for anything have not been sent to the vast majority of readers. It's unfair to judge them like it's a full launch when the NTA have been very clear it is still in a test phase.

Interestingly the very nice guys in Londis were very interested in this new card and we spent a few minutes chatting about it. At first they assumed you would get a cheaper fare for using multiple trips. When I told them it doesn't work like that, you pay for each trip separately, they were very disappointed and said "what is the point so?"

Wait until you see the final fare structure, it has not been decided yet, as stated in the letter from Transport for Ireland. There are many new features to come to the card that will not be there at launch day, but once again I repeat this is a test phase, so stop judging it like a finished product, because it is something is is not.

At Connolly I tried the Leap card in the IR ticket machines, but they didn't recognise it. I can confirm the same at Tara and Pearse station ticket machines. So it seems the IR machines aren't compatible with Leap yet. This is a very big pity for people who normally use DART, Rail to travel. They have to go to Luas machines or DB shops to top up. Hopefully this is just a temporary issue.

I am told there is more to this than meets the eye, and there is no reason why LEAP cards cannot work on IR ticket machines, this is an issue between the NTA and IR rather than a technical issue I am led to believe. No idea what it is. I assume the IR smart card will be discontinued soon or will they both run in tandem?

However I was able to tag on to the DART at Connolly no problem and Tag Off at Pearse no problem, so it seems the gates have no problem reading and using the Leap cards.

Good news, I was able to use the Leap card on LUAS and DART without taking the card out of the wallet. Even with the Dublin Bikes card in the same wallet. Didn't try it on the bus in my wallet, don't want to give the drivers a heart attack until they are use to it.

I still would use it away from any other smart cards though, I have an Oyster in my wallet and it plays merry hell if I try to use it over a reader with my now redundant IR smart card.

So after my adventures, not including the unnecessary journeys, I'm down nearly €10 due to badly trained store and bus staff.

So basically, pretty much what you'd expect from a test phase no? This is the whole reason they wanted to limit this to 500 people rather than making a free for all, so people could identify what problems there were, point them out, feed them back to the NTA and get them resolved with the relevant companies, departments, technologies before the live release.

You really need to start treating this as a beta or a test product, and expect to find bugs, because that is exactly what the whole exercise is for. If you don't like the fact there are problems and want things to be perfect straight away, then testing things obviously isn't for you.

In any case, us fully prepared, handpicked testers got 20 euro credit pre-loaded onto the card, so the loss of cash is not an issue to any of us, and if you do complain about being overcharged I doubt the NTA will refund you as they will simply tell you that you knew it was a test, you knew it shouldn't be available to the public but you got one anyway = your own risk.

I doubt the NTA will listen to you anyway. I know at least one person who's bought in shop Leap Card who has been disabled since thy bought it. Can't say I have any sympathy to be honest.

AngryLips · 29-11-2011 12:02am

bk wrote: »

Oh, not at all, I'm very excited about this.

That is why I'm giving my feedback, to help it be the best it can be.

I guess it's impossible to say if your experience will be typical for the new user until the card is actually launched. Although I expect that whoever is project managing this will be able to accept or discount your experience straight off based on your detailed account.

bk · 29-11-2011 12:04am

devnull, I think that your criticism of me is more then a little unfair.

Of course I know that it is still testing and I'm treating it exactly like a test and I'm testing it in exactly the way I've tested all my own IT projects over the years.

This is why, on top of the €10 in lost deposit and bus ticket, I also made about €10 of unnecessary journeys, on Luas, Bus and Dart, just to try it out and test it.

As expected I found a number of bugs, I've documented and reported those bugs to the NTA and hopefully they will be able to use my experience to iron out those bugs.

I don't expect a refund for doing this. I did this to help try it out and make it the most successful project it can be.

Surely it is better to find out these problems early, by a few of us who managed to buy a card before it was officially launched and who are enthusiastic about the project, then by thousands of people when it is launched?

Some of the issues I found might not have been discovered by the 500 testers as their test isn't "real world". They didn't get their card the way most people will (direct from the NTA pre activated, versus in a shop like most people) and they might never top theirs up.

I will be very mad if the NTA deactivate my card. While I don't mind losing €20 in the testing, I've now topped it up with another €30. If they deactivate it without a refund, that would not be on at all.

Stevek101 · 29-11-2011 1:09am

bk wrote: »

So in summary, lots of bugs in the system:

1) Store staff are inadequately trained in the card.
2) Luas machines should be able to activate and top up even inactivated cards.
3) Bus Drivers are inadequately trained in the card (e.g. charged twice).
4) The three times I used it on the bus, it took longer then to pay by cash. This card might actually increase bus dwell times rather hen reduce it.
5) The beep at the end of the transaction on the bus needs to be much louder.
6) The Irish Rail ticket machines don't recognise the card and you can't top it up on them.

1) Store staff haven't been trained as the card hasn't been officially launched yet.

2) LUAS machines do not have that functionality as part of the trial.

3) Drivers have all received leaflets and training. However, I have experienced some drivers who have never used the card before and that takes a little longer, which I think is pretty understandable.

You also can get the driver to annul a fare once you are in the same fare stage and it is under two minutes. That would rectify your charging twice problem.

4) Not much to say here, again it is in the trial phase.

5) Transaction information appears on the ticket machine, beep is fairly irrelevant.

6)Irish Rail machines are not part of the trial.

bk · 29-11-2011 2:23am

Thanks for the feedback Steve

Stevek101 wrote: »

You also can get the driver to annul a fare once you are in the same fare stage and it is under two minutes. That would rectify your charging twice problem.

Good to know, but I wouldn't have noticed had it not for him printing the receipt and me knowing how much I had already spent.

Only one transaction was actually on the receipt, I just knew that my balance was twice less what it should have been.

I don't think anyone else would notice this in normal circumstances.

Stevek101 wrote: »

5) Transaction information appears on the ticket machine, beep is fairly irrelevant.

In the three times I've used it, it really isn't obvious when the transaction is finished and you can move the card off. And it should be pointed out that I was looking very closely at the machine, while trying not to slow the driver and other people down.

The display is small, set back at an angle and hard to read.

Each time it took a nod from the driver before I moved off.

Also I'm not sure, but I don't think the ticket machine screen shows you the final balance on the card, once the transaction has been completed.

Perhaps it is much more obvious in a controlled test environment. But in the "real world" of trying not delay the driver and other passengers, rain, shopping, etc. it is much less obvious.

I know this won't be changed now due to expense, but if we are going to stick to this fare system on buses, then it would have been better if the ticket machines had larger, at least three line, displays.

Put your card on the reader, first line displays your current balance.
Driver deducts fare second line shows fare cost, three line shows new balance e.g.:

Current Balance : €30.00
Fare : € 1.65
New Balance : €28.35

Of course this all becomes irrelevant if DB move to a flat fare.

bk · 29-11-2011 2:24am

BTW does anyone know, can you pay for two €1.65 fares using Leap. i.e. for you and your partner?

Stevek101 · 29-11-2011 2:36am

Place your card on the target and look at the screen on the machine it'll show your current balance or SV (Stored Value), then simple request your fare. The fare then appears on screen with the location of final stage that fare will carry you too. You can be sure then correct fare has been deducted, if there are any issues with the fare you can get the driver to annul it.

The last five transactions regardless of what operator they were on (DB, Luas or IÉ) will appear on the Card Status receipt. You can request this off a DB driver if you wish.

If the transaction did not appear you were not charged twice. Also if there was a second transaction charged you would of received a ticket with "ITS PURSE USED" instead of "Adult Single". Which answers your question. You can purchase a ticket for a Child or Adult using your card and they will get a paper ticket.

bk · 29-11-2011 3:00am

Stevek101 wrote: »

Place your card on the target and look at the screen on the machine it'll show your current balance or SV (Stored Value), then simple request your fare. The fare then appears on screen with the location of final stage that fare will carry you too. You can be sure then correct fare has been deducted, if there are any issues with the fare you can get the driver to annul it.

I've noticed the initial Stored Value and I've noticed the 1.65 fare, but I don't think there is a final balance shown.

In the case of the double charge, I didn't think or remember seeing the double charge on the screen, I would have noticed had it said 3.30.

I think what happened is the driver charged 1.65 and then charged 1.65 a second time. There really wasn't any on screen indication of this double charge.

What made me suspicious was that this time the machine printed a ticket receipt, while it hadn't on my previous bus trip with leap.
The receipt said the amount debited was only 1.65, and my purse balance was now only 5 cent. I knew in this case that my balance should have been more, as I was only using the card for the second time and I knew exactly what it should be, but I'm certain I wouldn't be looking this closely normally and I don't think most people would notice.

Stevek101 wrote: »

The last five transactions regardless of what operator they were on (DB, Luas or IÉ) will appear on the Card Status receipt. You can request this off a DB driver if you wish.

Great, but you would only request this if something went wrong and my point is I don't think most people would notice something went wrong. I certainly don't think we want people requesting the last five transactions every time they get on the bus.

Perhaps a simple solution is any time this ticket is printed (due to a non standard fare) it automatically lists the last 5 transactions. This way it would be easy to notice a double charge like this.

I have to say, it really wasn't obvious and it will make me very cautious about using the Leap card on buses in future.

Can I assume if a paper receipt is printed, then it was some sort of non standard fare?

Stevek101 wrote: »

If the transaction did not appear you were not charged twice. Also if there was a second transaction charged you would of received a ticket with "ITS PURSE USED" instead of "Adult Single". Which answers your question. You can purchase a ticket for a Child or Adult using your card and they will get a paper ticket.

I received a ticket that says both "Adult Single" at the top, but also says "ITS Purse Used" further down the ticket. I'll know in future, thanks.

And thanks for the answer about being able to buy multiple tickets.

SandyfordGuy · 29-11-2011 9:23am

Had problems both tagging on and tagging off at Irish Rail stations today, got the "Try Again" message on both occasions but worked the second time.

Not sure if it was down to machine or the card though as someone i nthe gate next to me had same problem with Irish Rail smartcard.

PS: You can see itemized usage via a LUAS machine.

markpb · 29-11-2011 9:47am

The new cards are fractionally slower than existing DB and Luas cards. You need to hold them dead centre on the reader and for a slightly longer time for them to respond. If you get the Already Validated error, I think it means you removed it too early the first time.

"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

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