BBJ v Other Martial arts

cruasder777 wrote: »

I studied Wing Chun locally with a locally with a guy who had 30 years experience.

Because its not full contact, you cant tell how effective the defence technique is in real life.

Its a bit like the way traditional martial arts schools teach knife self defence, what knife attacker in real life leaves their arm in mid air ?

Wing Chun, is great for teaching, focus, discipline and making one feel connected to something powerful, even as a self defence system against the average aggressive guy, but against a grappler, it will get destroyed.

Just out of interest, where is "locally"?

cruasder777 wrote: »

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

Is the armbar not executed in almost exactly the same way, off the setups you've just listed?

No, there are even various ways of doing a standard arm bar from a closed guard, alot of differences are pretty subtle.

that's called improvisation. an armbar is an armbar. and bjj can have as many or as few techniques as you want. anyone who is at the top level isn't winning with a swiss army knife of techniques. they learn how to stay safe on bottom good base posture passing guard controlling their opponent and winning most of their matches with very few finishing techniques.

cruasder777 wrote: »

"Gipsy Ju-Jitsu" is a mixture of BJJ, sub wrestling and other styles.

Which is why he is so good against BBJ black belts, it means he has an un orthodox style they have not come across.

Obviously he also trains in Muay Thai.

absolute LOL

cruasder777 wrote: »

Doug Cartel wrote: »

OK, you do realise the "I'm a pink belt in Gypsy Jiu Jitsu" is just Maguire taking the piss right? I'm pretty sure he trains in a regular BJJ/Muay-Thai/MMA place.

Also, most BJJ places have both gi and no-gi, so I don't know where you're getting this idea that there are loads of BJJ people out there who are completely oblivious to sub-grappling.

"Gipsy Ju-Jitsu" is a mixture of BJJ, sub wrestling and other styles.

Which is why he is so good against BBJ black belts, it means he has an un orthodox style they have not come across.

Obviously he also trains in Muay Thai.

Gypsy ju jitsu is just the same as Jake shields 'American jiujitsu' or Jon fitchs 'guerilla jiujitsu' its submission wrestling. ie nogi bjj cross training with freestyle wrestling. unless they're in a gi its not judo as any judo throws done nogi are in wrestling.

cruasder777 wrote: »

Sambo, vale tudo, judo.

I train with John Maguire, I try to practice techniques not practised much or some now illegal in judo or simply not used alot in MMA much, ude-hiji-ashi-kansetsu, (google is your friend), shime-garami, atama-hishigi, or my favourite the kata gatame choke

Kata gatame perfectly legal in judo and is a very common choke in BJJ. They call it an arm triangle.

Ude hishigi ashi gatame (interesting way you chose to romanise it) is also legal, not sure what it's called in BJJ, but it's basically an arm-bar done with the legs.

Shime-garami, not sure what that is, sounds like a choke and lock at the same time, could you describe it?

Atama-hishigi, sounds like you're trying to describe bending someone's head back. I guess it's supposed to be some kind of neck crank. If you want the actual Japanese names for them they are available here http://judoinfo.com/kubiwaza.htm

a reverse katagatama or a head crush would never work without a gi against a resisting opponent in your own weight class. they can both be used to set up the much simpler and much more effective rear naked choke.
interesting how simplicity and effectiveness go hand in hand with grappling

cruasder777 wrote: »

Dont patronise me, do you think I dont know what a basic BJJ triangle choke is ?

I'm trying not to make assumptions. Though if you knew the English names, why were you using the Japanese names (and not even the standard judo ones at that) and telling me to google them?

Lol, keep trying, I meant a reverse kata gatame choke. Where did I say it was illegal ? I forgot to write reverse.

You said illegal or rare, I was pointing out that it is neither illegal nor rare. You "forgot" to write reverse - what am I a mind reader? Anyway a reverse kata-gatame doesn't sound that unusual - I would guess that would be a D'Arce choke? (Or is that a Brabbo? I get confused sometimes.)

Ude hishigi ashi gatame is an elbow lock, where did I say it was illegal ?

Its not an arm bar.

You are getting a bit caught up in semantics here, it's a straight armlock with the leg acting as the fulcrum. That's pretty similar to an arm-bar.

Shime-garami is a two armed arm bar kodokan technique, on your back, pull your opponents arms towards you while you have your ankles around his neck. not illegal.

Wow! The mythical double arm-bar. You win a lot of competitions with that one Broseph?

EDIT: woops, didn't notice he got banned, I guess that makes this post a bit pointless.

Id imagine reverse katagatama looks like a tazmission from wwe. works very well as a gi choke. not great without it.

Doug Cartel wrote: »

OK I'm going to sound pedantic here, but ude-hishigi-ashi-gatame covers more situations than just the crucifix armbar.

Okay you win :P

Just a question though...I read somewhere that the 'crucifix' position in judo isn't a recognized technique, does this have any impact on it's use in competition?

I'm having trouble figuring out the point of the thread. I initially thought the op was making an observation about bjj and was wondering in which other styles could a fighter compete with a bjj player, but as I read the thread, the OP's suggestion seems to be that it's pointless doing a striking art at all because you can get beaten by a grappler. Or am I reading too much into the comments?

Some of the technique names posted here by the OP are more than a bit esoteric and
definitely non-canonical, dating back to 50's and earlier e.g. "Shime Garami" which is to
be found in Kawashi's books. Kawashi's naming style even at the time often failed to
follow Kodokan conventions.

They have been largely deprecated, in modern judo classifications, in favour of naming
the principle and letting everything else then just be a variation there off. As such
"Shime-Garami" would now be ude-hishigi-hiza-gatame (knee) or ude-hishigi-sankaku
-gatame (triangle) depending on how the pressure was applied to uke's elbow, as I
understand it.


This approach is counter parallel to BJJ and tends leave things lost in translation.
There are many long discussions about this over on Judoforum for those interested.