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Gardai should lead by example

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  • 10-09-2011 12:11am
    #1
    Saab Ed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭


    Just thought i'd bring this up. Everytime I see a Garda car driving Irresponsibly it really gets my blood boiling. On one occasion I watched what was a blantant abuse of power by the driver of a garda jeep who pretty much did what he wanted while also towing a trailer. There was driving in bus lane, cutting into lanes, hard shoulder a Blanchardstown was the best one.

    But yet when I posted here I was hammered by guards who told they were exempt from the road traffic act, in effect a free pass to drive how ever they wanted should the cap fit. I suggested plenty of situations were I'd witnesed Garda cars driving carelessly but each time I was shot down. Seems I was wrong .......or was I !!!!! Well not according to this 2008 report which i've found and it pretty much says that unless Guards are chassing you then they should be driving like everyone else.

    http://www.gsinsp.ie/index2.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=55&Itemid=53

    Page 19, a recomendation specifically states .....

    "Police officers operating Garda vehicles must
    provide a positive example for other road users
    and management should develop policies to ensure
    such is the case. In non-emergency situations,
    police officers should fully comply with the rules
    of the road in the operation of vehicles, observing
    speed limits, traffic signals and refraining from the
    use of mobile phones while driving"

    In other words unless you're after somebody then drive like the rest of us. You might be exempt from the law but the law is there because doing stupid things in a car is a stupid thing to do. Exemption doesnt make it any less stupid and wont get much respect from Joe Public either.

    I thank you , Good night :p


«1345

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    #2
    -Corkie-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭-Corkie-


    They are constantly chasing the donought man in case you didnt know..

    IBTL.


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    #3
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,286 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    It can be quite sickening some of the crap they get up to on the road.


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    #4
    Saab Ed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    -Corkie- wrote: »

    IBTL.

    Dont know why it should be. I aint ranting, im just pointing out , in the interest of the motorist, that guards are supposed to drive in accordance with the rules that govern the rest of us while not in pusuit. ;)


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    #5
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    -Corkie- wrote: »

    IBTL.

    Dont know why it should be. I aint ranting, im just pointing out , in the interest of the motorist, that guards are supposed to drive in accordance with the rules that govern the rest of us while not in pusuit. ;)

    There's a thread running on this in AH


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    #6
    -Corkie-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭-Corkie-


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    Dont know why it should be. I aint ranting, im just pointing out , in the interest of the motorist, that guards are supposed to drive in accordance with the rules that govern the rest of us while not in pusuit. ;)

    I know that but these threads normally desend into Garda bashing threads after a few pages..:)

    I read on another forum where a motorist spotted a traffic corps jeep reversing down the H/S of a motorway because she missed the slip road..:rolleyes:


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    #7
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,707 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    i find the garda to be decent enough on the road and towards other road users


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    #8
    Saab Ed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    -Corkie- wrote: »
    I read on another forum where a motorist spotted a traffic corps jeep reversing down the H/S of a motorway because she missed the slip road..:rolleyes:

    :eek:

    No its not a specific garda bashing thread I want to start but I do see your point. I hate an injustice and even more an abuse of power no matter by who in what ever walk of life.


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    #9
    EPM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭EPM


    Did you report the instances where you saw reckless driving by AGS? As this will no doubt descend into another AGS bashing thread I'm curious as to whether it was reported or just ranted about on boards.


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    #10
    Saab Ed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    Just ranted about on boards i'm afraid. I got down of my high horse fairly lively thought after getting a bloody nose from lots of guards in here. I just felt a little even up of the scores was needed. All garda response very welcome I might add, i'm sure most of them drive properly.


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    #11
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    He is entitled to drive in Bus Lanes. He is entitled to drive as he see fits. in fact, if he wants to stop at a red light with the twos and blues going then he can do that too.

    You don't know where he was going or why he was going there or for any of the reasons he made any of the lane changes he did. You can't judge him.

    If he had hit you then he would be accountable but he didn't so just deal with it and take your anti Garda sentiment with you!


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    #12
    Saab Ed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    MugMugs wrote: »
    He is entitled to drive in Bus Lanes. He is entitled to drive as he see fits. in fact, if he wants to stop at a red light with the twos and blues going then he can do that too.

    You don't know where he was going or why he was going there or for any of the reasons he made any of the lane changes he did. You can't judge him.

    If he had hit you then he would be accountable but he didn't so just deal with it and take your anti Garda sentiment with you!

    Well on your first point about being entitled to drive in the bus lane, well according to this 2008 report he's not entitled to be there, hence the point of my orginal post so you're wromg there.

    Secondly I dont have any anti garda sentiment , here's my original post from about 2 years ago when the incident happened .....http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055471784&page=2 ..... its not about guards you see, its about it being dangerous and wrong


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    #13
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    I remember a few years ago a female garda parked her car on the pavement between the chancery street courts and the motor tax office, and went into court. She caused a huge traffic jam, some paper had a photo of it.


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    #14
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    Your quote of that report says nothing about bus lanes. Like I said, you don't know why they are doing what they are doing and frankly you have no right to either. If they require the use of a bus lane in the course of their duty then they should be permitted its use without justification.


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    #15
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    MugMugs wrote: »
    He is entitled to drive in Bus Lanes. He is entitled to drive as he see fits. in fact, if he wants to stop at a red light with the twos and blues going then he can do that too.

    You don't know where he was going or why he was going there or for any of the reasons he made any of the lane changes he did. You can't judge him.

    If he had hit you then he would be accountable but he didn't so just deal with it and take your anti Garda sentiment with you!

    Well on your first point about being entitled to drive in the bus lane, well according to this 2008 report he's not entitled to be there, hence the point of my orginal post so you're wromg there.

    Secondly I dont have any anti garda sentiment , here's my original post from about 2 years ago when the incident happened .....http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055471784&page=2 ..... its not about guards you see, its about it being dangerous and wrong

    if it's not about guards why haven't you posted about other alleged bad driving you must see on a regular basis. You are starting a Garda bashing thread but you haven't got the guts to admit it. I hate whingers and you sir are a whinger


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    #16
    Saab Ed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    MugMugs wrote: »
    Your quote of that report says nothing about bus lanes. Like I said, you don't know why they are doing what they are doing and frankly you have no right to either. If they require the use of a bus lane in the course of their duty then they should be permitted its use without justification.

    " police officers should fully comply with the rules
    of the road in the operation of vehicles "

    Its doesnt say you shouldnt race some skanger in a Honda Civic from the traffic lights either but most people will get he jist...unless that is you just want to argue that black is white in which case you win. Like I said I'm not here to garda bash. Anyway off to bed with me, enjoy :)


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    #17
    Saab Ed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    if it's not about guards why haven't you posted about other alleged bad driving you must see on a regular basis. You are starting a Garda bashing thread but you haven't got the guts to admit it. I hate whingers and you sir are a whinger


    Okay I'll make this simple. Would you agree with the report ?


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    #18
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    Bosco boy wrote: »
    if it's not about guards why haven't you posted about other alleged bad driving you must see on a regular basis. You are starting a Garda bashing thread but you haven't got the guts to admit it. I hate whingers and you sir are a whinger


    Okay I'll make this simple. Would you agree with the report ?

    whingers love reports, the vehicle involved may have been a water unit jeep as it was pulling a trailer, they travel the country everyday dealing with tragedys that often don't make headlines. It's quite possible the driver was on a call / job. The driving sounds to me like progressive driving which is part of the advanced driving course but you wouldn't understand. Get a life and move on! By the way you didn't answer my previous question!


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    #19
    Saab Ed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    , the vehicle involved may have been a water unit jeep as it was pulling a trailer, they travel the country everyday dealing with tragedys that often don't make headlines. It's quite possible the driver was on a call / job.!

    Or he was was just abusing his position of power. ( we know that's happened alot in this country , nobody mention Donegal ) I guess we'll never know :cool:

    Just one last thing, poniting out what I see as an injustice, dangerous and down right stupid does not constitute Garda bashing, it amounts to pointing out that somebody has done something dangerous and stupid. I've argued many a point on this forum about lots of different subjects and plenty of other forums too. Why is it that it's a discussion when Guards arent involved yet its bashing when they are. Grow up will you, they drove back to the station and parked up. I drive properly ( no points , no convictions, ) you most likely you do to. But how do we expect does who dont respect rules of the road to learn if those who uphold the law dont practice what the preach.

    PS- Are you a guard ?


  • Options
    #20
    savagecabbages
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭savagecabbages


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    Or he was was just abusing his position of power. ( we know that's happened alot in this country , nobody mention Donegal ) I guess we'll never know :cool:

    Just one last thing, poniting out what I see as an injustice, dangerous and down right stupid does not constitute Garda bashing, it amounts to pointing out that somebody has done something dangerous and stupid. I've argued many a point on this forum about lots of different subjects and plenty of other forums too. Why is it that it's a discussion when Guards arent involved yet its bashing when they are. Grow up will you, they drove back to the station and parked up. I drive properly ( no points , no convictions, ) you most likely you do to. But how do we expect does who dont respect rules of the road to learn if those who uphold the law dont practice what the preach.

    PS- Are you a guard ?

    Would you have started a thread if it wasn't a Garda vehicle? And did you report this dangerous driving(if it even is dangerous driving...), or is coming onto boards and complaining about it without actually doing anything helping you sleep tonight?


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    #21
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,818 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    MugMugs wrote: »
    He is entitled to drive in Bus Lanes. He is entitled to drive as he see fits. in fact, if he wants to stop at a red light with the twos and blues going then he can do that too.

    You don't know where he was going or why he was going there or for any of the reasons he made any of the lane changes he did. You can't judge him.
    Sure we can, he works for us. I have the greatest of respect for the often thankless job the Gardaí do, but I still expect them to follow our rules when doing the job that we pay them for. It worries me when people argue against accountability for police forces - their ability to do the job safely & effectively hinges in large part on the respect & support of the public they serve.


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    #22
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    For your information, a vast majority of Gardai do not have an advanced driving course and drive using what's called "chiefs permission"
    On a another note, emergency vehicles are entitled to use Bus Lanes, not just when its an emergency.

    If you were so concerned about how a member of An Garda Siochana was behaving in a motor vehicle, why did you not report them for it? Why are you not generalizing about another group? Let's say, Mondeo Men? Or little old ladies in a Micra? Or even white van men! Nobody likes them! Why are you starting a thread about the conduct of the Gardai and their supposed law breaking on an internet forum and insisting that your not attempting to inflame Garda Bashing?


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    #23
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Anan1 wrote: »
    Sure we can, he works for us. I have the greatest of respect for the often thankless job the Gardaí do, but I still expect them to follow our rules when doing the job that we pay them for. It worries me when people argue against accountability for police forces - their ability to do the job safely & effectively hinges in large part on the respect & support of the public they serve.

    ^^ This

    I also respect gardai in general and I think on the whole they do a difficult job well, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea that any police force should be above scrutiny.

    On another point, usually when somebody posts up a report of a seeing a guard doing x, y or z on the road, the stock response is that "they're entitled to do that". Point is - just because your job entitles to do something in your job doesn't mean you should abuse that entitlement-

    - Just because your job allows you to park anywhere you like doesn't mean you should park at a prohibited spot on a busy main road while you head in to order a pizza.

    - just because your job allows you to use a mobile while driving doesn't mean you SHOULD drive home yakking on the phone to your mates about meeting up the rugby game later.

    - Just because your job allows you to jump red lights doesn't mean you should just because you don't feel like waiting.


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    #24
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    Bosco boy wrote: »
    , the vehicle involved may have been a water unit jeep as it was pulling a trailer, they travel the country everyday dealing with tragedys that often don't make headlines. It's quite possible the driver was on a call / job.!

    Or he was was just abusing his position of power. ( we know that's happened alot in this country , nobody mention Donegal ) I guess we'll never know :cool:

    Just one last thing, poniting out what I see as an injustice, dangerous and down right stupid does not constitute Garda bashing, it amounts to pointing out that somebody has done something dangerous and stupid. I've argued many a point on this forum about lots of different subjects and plenty of other forums too. Why is it that it's a discussion when Guards arent involved yet its bashing when they are. Grow up will you, they drove back to the station and parked up. I drive properly ( no points , no convictions, ) you most likely you do to. But how do we expect does who dont respect rules of the road to learn if those who uphold the law dont practice what the preach.

    PS- Are you a guard ?

    yes, what do you work at? I may have a few thoughts on how perfect your profession is.


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    #25
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,818 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    yes, what do you work at? I may have a few thoughts on how perfect your profession is.
    I'm a little confused here. Do you accept that all serving Gardaí need to follow this, or do you reject the authority of the Garda Inspectorate?


    http://www.gsinsp.ie/index2.php?opti...d=55&Itemid=53

    Page 19, a recomendation specifically states .....

    "Police officers operating Garda vehicles must

    provide a positive example for other road users
    and management should develop policies to ensure
    such is the case. In non-emergency situations,
    police officers should fully comply with the rules
    of the road in the operation of vehicles, observing
    speed limits, traffic signals and refraining from the
    use of mobile phones while driving"


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    #26
    EPM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭EPM


    Thread temp locked pending discussion with other mods.


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    #27
    EPM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭EPM


    Posts by challengemaster and VolvoMan deleted.

    Any posts that are deemed to be inflammatory will be deleted without warning by the mods.

    We've had similar topics to this in the past and they usually descend into Garda bashing. The first hint of that from now on and there will be infractions and bans.


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    #28
    166man
    Registered Users Posts: 6,575 ✭✭✭166man


    I have great respect for the Gardai in Ireland as they have tough jobs dealing with the type of people that they come across.

    However it does not give them the right to drive like idiots or talk on their mobile phone when driving, that just annoys members of the public, not to mention the dangerous aspect of it. They should obey the rules of the road like any other citizen when driving under normal circumstances and set an example for other road users to follow.


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    #29
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    It is clear that in the line of duty the Gardai must drive outside the rules.
    It should also be clear that there should be strict guidelines as to when and how that would be the case.
    When responding to a violent incident, armed robbery or bad road crash, the emergency services must be on the scene in the shortest time possible.
    But "in the line of duty" and "responding to an emergency" should not include rescuing a kitten from a tree or ferrying breakfast rolls to the station.
    I'd say this does make sense to anyone.
    An earlier argument of "The Gardai should be allowed to do whatever they want without and scrutiny and responsibility" is just scary. I'm sure many militias in South American "democracies" operate like that and ever since FF where voted out we're actually trying to get away from this 3rd world banana republic image of absolute power and non-accountability of the public service.
    The public service as a whole (including the Gardai) have been nurtured on a culture of somehow being superior, being non-accountable, having a guaranteed job and having to answer to no one.
    This is a very outmoded and archaic way of thinking, the way forward is for everyone to be responsible and accountable for their actions, no one is above the law and everyone will be held responsible for mistakes they make.


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    #30
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Like most people I have the utmost respect for the gardai and the job that they do. I could not, for any amount of money do what they do and deal with what they have to deal with.

    That being said some of the behaviour on the roads that I have witnessed is just dangerous to themselves and the public in general, I don't think this is really the fault of the average Garda but Garda management and policy setters who allow untrained drivers to engage in practices which are inherently dangerous such as phone use, pursuits etc.

    They should be provided with the tools and training they need to do their job safely and supervised to prevent abuse of the exemptions from the law that they quite rightly require to do their job however all of the above appear to be lacking to some extent.

    Saying this probably makes me a Garda basher, wonder why some are so defensive.?


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    #31
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    It is clear that in the line of duty the Gardai must drive outside the rules.
    It should also be clear that there should be strict guidelines as to when and how that would be the case.
    When responding to a violent incident, armed robbery or bad road crash, the emergency services must be on the scene in the shortest time possible.
    But "in the line of duty" and "responding to an emergency" should not include rescuing a kitten from a tree or ferrying breakfast rolls to the station.
    I'd say this does make sense to anyone.
    An earlier argument of "The Gardai should be allowed to do whatever they want without and scrutiny and responsibility" is just scary. I'm sure many militias in South American "democracies" operate like that and ever since FF where voted out we're actually trying to get away from this 3rd world banana republic image of absolute power and non-accountability of the public service.
    The public service as a whole (including the Gardai) have been nurtured on a culture of somehow being superior, being non-accountable, having a guaranteed job and having to answer to no one.
    This is a very outmoded and archaic way of thinking, the way forward is for everyone to be responsible and accountable for their actions, no one is above the law and everyone will be held responsible for mistakes they make.

    well it didn't take long to surface - private sector v public sector. No one on this forum knows what call the driver was on their way to. Every post is based on pure speculation, these threads are so full of whingers who jump to conclusions. The same people will whinge when they call the gardai and they don't arrive immediately, I bet if the despatcher said they will be with you in 2 hours as they have a backlog of calls due to heavy traffic you'd tell them what have they got sirens and lights for. The majority of the public I deal with are 100% but there are some prize tits out there with grievences and convictions and many thrive on these forums. People like the op should make a complaint of dangerous driving to the ombudsman, if they don't they defeat their arguement, as they say "**** or get off the pot!"


This discussion has been closed.
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