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Your favourite unsolved mystery?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭firefly08


    Who shot JFK - the Magic Bullet theory just doesn't hold water for me.

    The JFK assassination is my favorite mystery...if I could only know the answer to one of these mysteries, it would be this. However, forget the whole "magic bullet" nonsense. Oliver Stone basically invented that. There's nothing unusual about the wounds, their locations, and the state of the bullet that was found afterwards.

    It's ironic that people put so much effort into looking for technical reasons why their must have been a conspiracy...a second shooter, the magic bullet etc. The fact is that there is no reason why Oswald couldn't have done the shooting alone. This has been demonstrated many times. Yet, he was murdered within 2 days, by a man who claimed (among other things) that he was ordered to do it by powerful people. There's your conspiracy...no need to go looking for puffs of smoke from the grassy knoll.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭Obelisk


    firefly08 wrote: »
    Who shot JFK - the Magic Bullet theory just doesn't hold water for me.

    The JFK assassination is my favorite mystery...if I could only know the answer to one of these mysteries, it would be this. However, forget the whole "magic bullet" nonsense. Oliver Stone basically invented that. There's nothing unusual about the wounds, their locations, and the state of the bullet that was found afterwards.

    It's ironic that people put so much effort into looking for technical reasons why their must have been a conspiracy...a second shooter, the magic bullet etc. The fact is that there is no reason why Oswald couldn't have done the shooting alone. This has been demonstrated many times. Yet, he was murdered within 2 days, by a man who claimed (among other things) that he was ordered to do it by powerful people. There's your conspiracy...no need to go looking for puffs of smoke from the grassy knoll.


    BAhahahahaha


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    I love a good did they/didn't they case, I read up all the info and try to come to a conclusion myself.

    Mine would be Amanda Knox, I'm verging on the "She is innocent" side at the minute, I think she was just very naive in her actions afterwards.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    firefly08 wrote:
    The Shroud Of Turin. I read a book a few years ago that made an attempt to explain it, it was called The Second Messiah. The authors had a really clever explanation for the whole thing, which managed to explain every mysterious detail of the shroud and it's history...just no actual evidence unfortunately. They appear to have pulled the whole story out of their asses...still, it was by far the most realistic and convincing theory I've ever heard.
    The shorud is an interesting one alright. An American amateur researcher(a non religious one too) has done some interesting work on it. His idea is that the shroud is older the C14 tests done on it and it's not a medieval artifact. He has a few reasons for believing this. Apparently the length of the cloth is shorter than it should be and was originally made up of one length split into three. The main part the shroud, the next largest peice the headscarf/covering or sudarium(this piece is mentioned in one of the gospel accounts) and a thin piece at the the end used as a belt/binder to wrap around the body. He thinks he knows where the headcovering is. In Spain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudarium_of_Oviedo It matches in bloodtype and type of cloth. Now it can be dated historically way before the shroud and way before the shroud's C14 dating. So if they are connected we can bring the shroud back to the 7th century. Then other researchers, also amateurs but religious types, noted that the part of the shroud used for carbon dating was contaminated by medieval fibres and thus the dating is not reliable. Sadly the church worried about mould forming took bad advice and fumigated the box containing the shroud which means carbon dating will likely be not possible anymore. Another researcher found records in the Byzantine empire of a shroud fitting the description very closely of the Turin one that was venerated in the 5th century and then stolen. Apparently it was rolled into a box in a particular way differently to how the shroud has been in Europe and guess what, those earlier folds are still detectable. The plot defo thickens. Whatever about a medieval forger making the thing, how a late classical forger did it is truly fascinating and mysterious.
    Amelia Earheart
    IMH crashed in the sea either because of technical issues with her aricraft or running out of fuel. The latter I'd have less faith in as she was one helluva aviatrix so I'd go with catastrophic failure of on of her systems. Why hasn't she been found? The sea swallows up countless stories and lives without trace. Even today.
    What happened to Tutankhamun ( Egyptian Pharoah for those who don't know)
    Probably natural causes, most likely an infection. He wasn't the strongest of lads even at 19. His ma and da were brother and sister so the line was very inbred. He had bone disease, a club foot, cleft palate and needed (ornate) crutches to get around so was kinda bollexed. Murder is a possibility, but I doubt it myself. He was too weak and powerless to be much of a threat. Better to have a pliant king than a headstrong one you can't control. Oh yea and there was never a curse on his tomb. No Pharaoh's tomb ever had one.
    Who were the first Europeans to the Americas? Surely not the Romans? In my uneducated opinion if a ship made it, it was blown there in a storm.
    Maybe even way earlier than that. The so called first "americans"(they weren't) the so called Clovis peoples of around 11,000 years ago don't have Asian style stone tools, but European style ones. Later Europeans? Well the Vikings defo made it and our own Brendan the navigator and his monks likely did, or it's possible. Columbus himself thought oul Bren had found the Indies and read much on the Brendan Voyage. Well it was a medieval and later "bestseller".

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭firefly08


    Maybe even way earlier than that. The so called first "americans"(they weren't) the so called Clovis peoples of around 11,000 years ago don't have Asian style stone tools, but European style ones. Later Europeans? Well the Vikings defo made it and our own Brendan the navigator and his monks likely did, or it's possible. Columbus himself thought oul Bren had found the Indies and read much on the Brendan Voyage. Well it was a medieval and later "bestseller".

    In an attempt to find out whether it was possible for Brendan to make the voyage in the kind of boats they had back then, and how difficult it might have been, Tim Severin built a replica boat and successfully completed the same journey without modern technology. The boat he used is on display in Craggaunowen near Quin in Co. Clare.

    Also, for a general idea of how hard it is to reach America from Europe in pre-historic vessels, without any navigational aids, and with limited supplies of fresh water and food, check out The Ra Expedition by Thor Heyerdahl...he had a boat built entirely from papyrus reeds (the kind that they used to make paper from in ancient Egypt) and sailed it from Morocco to Central America. It turns out that if you can survive long enough, you're going to end up in America whether you like it or not - and surviving long enough is not as hard as you might think!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 86 ✭✭Eever


    phill106 wrote: »
    He faked the theft of the books in a bid to meet her. He then planted the books there, knowing his sister (accomplice) had passed on the information about the supposed missing books.

    But he's never met her!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    True enough firefly08. Though I suppose Thor and Tim knew there was something out there to reach which makes it so much easier. The guys who went before them had no such ideas. I'd be asking how they made boats big enough to carry their balls(or ovaries as women often went along too). :D

    As for how easy it was. I remember watching a documentary where they asked this elderly Eskimo guy, still au fait with the old ways in practice about this and they showed him a map of how the northern hemisphere looked as the last ice age retreated and he reckoned it would be pretty easy for people to move from Europe to North America running along the edge of the ice. Plenty of food along the way etc. He guesstimated around 6 to 8 months for the trip.

    Look even further back. Much further back. The first humans to leave Africa, Homo Erectus did so at least a million years ago. By 900,000 yrs ago they/we were in the UK and it was even colder than today(they were likely here too). They went as far as eastern Asia and as far as islands in south east Asia. The Flores "hobbits" managed a long enough ocean voyage around 800,000 yrs ago IIRC. In Europe they made it to Crete well outside of sight of land around 500,000 years ago. And these are so called "primitve" man. Ug the caveman time. And we're supposed to believe that modern humans, us, with all our extra upgrades didn't get to the Americas until 11,000 years ago. Ask me bollex I reckon. We and our rellies before us were clever and brave bastards.

    As I mused on another forum I reckon you could show an ancient human, Erectus or Neandertal say, us their children going to the moon. They wouldn't get nor begin to understand the details, but I'd put good money they'd cheer and understand the why when Neil Armstrong put his foot on the moon and the rest of us took each step with him and the other 12 that explored it. Every single one of us should look around and look in the mirror and be pretty damned proud of who we are and where we come from and where we're going to go next. Any time I get a bit whiny and miserable as we all can do, I am lucky that I can hold in my hand very old human artifacts I've collected over the years. I will hold a handaxe that's 100,000 years old and look hard at it and feel it in my hands and look around at the people and things around me so far removed from it and I just know we're going to be alright.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,551 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    Mine would be Amanda Knox, I'm verging on the "She is innocent" side at the minute, I think she was just very naive in her actions afterwards.

    General and circumstantial evidence:

    - Alibis changed several times.
    - Inconsistencies in alibis, which still remain.
    - Alibis contradicted by 3 independent witnesses, and by analysis of computer hard drive.
    - Witness saw them both outside cottage with knives that night.
    - Cell phones switched off early in evening, contrary to normal habits.
    - Break-in was faked, nobody but Knox and Sollecito had a motive.
    - Washing machine was run on morning after murder, and cleanup attempted long after Guede had fled.
    - Victim's injuries point to more than one attacker, as do footprints and witness hearing running feet.
    - Highly improbable story of Knox showering in house on morning after murder, unworried by broken window, open door, blood stains, unflushed toilet.
    - Lie by Sollecito about phone call from father that evening.
    - Lie by Sollecito about Meredith being pricked with knife while cooking.
    - Lie about what time they called the Carabanieri.
    - Knox had knowledge about manner of victim's death even before the police knew.
    - False accusation by Knox against Patrick. Knox told mother shortly afterwards that Patrick was innocent, but neither made any attempt to tell police or lawyers.
    - Knox may have been on bad terms with victim.

    Forensic evidence:

    - Knife with victim's DNA in Sollecito's apartment.
    - Sollectio's DNA on victims bra, possibly Knox's DNA on victim's bra.
    - Knox's blood mixed with victim's blood: in bathroom (3 places), hallway, room with faked break-in.
    - Footprints in blood compatible with Knox in hallway, cleaned after murder, revealed with luminol.
    - Footprint in victim's blood compatible with Sollecito on bathmat.
    - Print of woman's shoe compatible with Knox's shoe size (not victim's) under victim's body.
    - A number of forensic experts called by the defence were unable to dent the prosecution case.

    Background (not evidence in itself, but supports evidence):

    - Knox: heavy marijuana and alcohol user, casually slept with many men. Fined for wild party in Seattle. Cold, abnormal behavior after murder: "She f-ing bled to death". Laughing, kissing, making faces in police station soon after murder. Day after body discovered Knox shopped for sexy lingerie, kissed in public, talked about wild sex. Cartwheels in police station waiting room. Didn't attend memorial for victim, went for pizza instead.
    - Sollecito: arrogant and spoiled, marijuana and cocaine user, collected knives and always carried a knife with him. Collected violent, pornographic comics. Collected besiality porn. Had poster of serial killer on his wall. Wanted 'extreme experiences'.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    I know someone who has no sense of fascination with any type of mystery whatsoever.Does any body understand such a condition?Never asks why? or How?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    This mad Jelly like substance I keep finding in by megalithic sites

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/outdoors/articles/jelly/

    usually no where near water or anything else. just huge clumps of it


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  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭gstar


    Spontaneous human combustion!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    paddyandy wrote: »
    I know someone who has no sense of fascination with any type of mystery whatsoever.Does any body understand such a condition?Never asks why? or How?

    Lack of intelligence I think, you need to have a certain spark to be curious I reckon. It's like the way people who have no imagination are never really scared of anything. Kinda.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    This mad Jelly like substance I keep finding in by megalithic sites

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/outdoors/articles/jelly/

    usually no where near water or anything else. just huge clumps of it

    Gak!!

    There is another post a few pages back about lumps of jelly falling from the sky - they were discovered to have the same bacteria in them that naturally occur in the human disgestive system. Ewwwwwwwwwww.


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,856 ✭✭✭paddy kerins


    Wibbs wrote: »
    IMH crashed in the sea either because of technical issues with her aricraft or running out of fuel. The latter I'd have less faith in as she was one helluva aviatrix so I'd go with catastrophic failure of on of her systems. Why hasn't she been found? The sea swallows up countless stories and lives without trace. Even today.

    http://www.cracked.com/article_18718_6-famous-unsolved-mysteries-that-have-totally-been-solved.html
    No. 6 on that list solves that mystery. Or at least provides a credible explanation


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    paddyandy wrote: »
    I know someone who has no sense of fascination with any type of mystery whatsoever.Does any body understand such a condition?Never asks why? or How?

    Conversely there is a type of person obsessed with mysteries and conspiracy theories, eschewing all rational (therefore boring) explanations in favour of more fanciful (and therefore interesting) versions. I think generally the reality of these 'mysteries' can be quite mundane.

    Taking some examples from this thread:
    Dyatolov Pass incident - seems the explanations that they thought there was an avalanche (due to jets passing overhead) or else that they were attacked by natives are both very possible and believable. No reason to bring in secret weapon tests or aliens.

    The Tunguska event - seems obvious from all the evidence available that it was a simple meteor strike. No need to evoke alien ships crashing to Earth.

    JFK - It's very possible that Oswald worked alone to kill him. The only question is whether he was involved in a larger conspiracy, a lot of people wanted him dead so not a surprise if he was.

    9/11 - Often the source of some of the more ridiculous conspiracy theories. Some now even now stating that the planes were illusions and the buildings were destroyed by 'energy weapons'. This because the less ludicrous (yet still ludicrous) theories involving planting explosives were comprehensively debunked.

    Crops circles - a couple of guys admitted to doing these yet some people still think aliens created them.

    I think Occams razor is a very helpful tool in these cases. If you have a simple, rational and possible explanation, stop looking for more complex ones.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Mine would be Amanda Knox, I'm verging on the "She is innocent" side at the minute, I think she was just very naive in her actions afterwards.

    Ah yes, the old she is so hot she must be innocent reaction. She wouldn't even have had to go to trial if she looked like a bearded troll - automagically guilty.

    No mystery there, save that the USA still believe any and all trials from outside their own are by nature illegitimate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,966 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    Has anyone mentioned Kaspar Hauser yet?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaspar_Hauser


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭CorkMan


    How did George W Bush become president?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭x in the city


    IvaBigWun wrote: »
    Shergar: Did he end up as dog food, or glue, or a Frenchman's meal?

    Jill Dando: I wonder what she uncovered? I never believed that Barry George did it

    Lochness Monster: Too many sightings for it to be an urban legend

    Marilyn Monroe: Killed off imho.

    Yours?

    why wimmins hold hands and go to the jax en masse with other wimmins


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Ditch


    This mad Jelly like substance I keep finding in by megalithic sites

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/outdoors/articles/jelly/

    usually no where near water or anything else. just huge clumps of it


    Bloke, at the very bottom of the comments, reckons it's stags semen, Ken. Interesting.

    I've found this stuff on my track here. I've also had friends report it from places frequented by sheep.

    Now; No sheep get on my track. Perfectly feasible that Red Stags might though. And deer are known to mingle with sheep.

    Also, as ye'd probably know, rutting stags are given to a form of self stimulation. So, that'd explain how it comes (:rolleyes:) to be found laying about the place.

    What ye think ....?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Ditch wrote: »
    Bloke, at the very bottom of the comments, reckons it's stags semen, Ken. Interesting.

    I've found this stuff on my track here. I've also had friends report it from places frequented by sheep.

    Now; No sheep get on my track. Perfectly feasible that Red Stags might though. And deer are known to mingle with sheep.

    Also, as ye'd probably know, rutting stags are given to a form of self stimulation. So, that'd explain how it comes (:rolleyes:) to be found laying about the place.

    What ye think ....?

    i would have imagined if it was semen then it would be easily identifiable as such. this stuff seemed too rigid to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,810 ✭✭✭phill106


    i would have imagined if it was semen then it would be easily identifiable as such. this stuff seemed too rigid to me.

    Should probably run some kind if taste test...
    is it salty?
    :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    CorkMan wrote: »
    How did George W Bush become president?
    The real mystery is how did he do it the second time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    phill106 wrote: »
    Should probably run some kind if taste test...
    is it salty?
    :eek:

    dunno...how do you know semen is salty?


  • Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭Burky126


    Very interesting thread,keep the theories coming!

    What happened to Bela Kiss?

    Hungarian Serial Killer who disappeared around 1916.Rumoured to had spent his last days in New York.

    The Crystal Skulls have always facinated me,despite the hokeyness of the claims.The appeal is rather in the legend behind the skulls.

    Murder in the Metro


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    Who ate all the pies is a mystery for the ages.

    Football fans in particular are fascinated by it and often ask for it to be solved en masse on Saturday afternoons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭talla10


    Who shot Mr Burns??

    Never quite believed maggie did it...

    Or more seriously....the mud angel...


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Taking some examples from this thread:
    Dyatolov Pass incident - seems the explanations that they thought there was an avalanche (due to jets passing overhead) or else that they were attacked by natives are both very possible and believable. No reason to bring in secret weapon tests or aliens.
    I dunno. The natives killing them seems an unlikely one. The only footprints found were the skiers own and the apparent chronology of events seem at odds with that too. The avalanche theory seems more plausible. Though a couple of problems with that one too. One there wasn't any evidence of one. Two they were camped in an area not prone to them and if one had occurred it would have missed the camp by a large distance(experienced hikers so picked the right spot, though why they didnt stay in the shelter of the relatively close forest is puzzling in itself). Jets passing overhead while rumbling would pass over head quickly. From the time they'd hear the approach, rouse from sleep, get out of the tents chances are the jets and noise would be gone. If they thought avalanche why all run in one direction? If they thought they were at risk from same why get out of their clothes in their tents(that's odd itself given the temps) or not stay in the treeline? I suspect they heard or saw or thought they heard or saw something(suspected bear/wolves?) approaching the campsite and ran in group/herd terror away from it and the elements took their toll. Maybe earlier in the day they had spotted a bear in the distance and hyped up the fear?
    The Tunguska event - seems obvious from all the evidence available that it was a simple meteor strike. No need to evoke alien ships crashing to Earth.
    Or comet.


    I think Occams razor is a very helpful tool in these cases. If you have a simple, rational and possible explanation, stop looking for more complex ones.
    Very true.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Ditch


    Burky126 wrote: »


    " Many of the books were about poisons or strangulation. " :eek: Who the hell writes books about strangulation?!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Another mystery for me is wheter any of tasmanias much hunted thylacines remain. There are sightings the odd time and these are taken very seriously.
    This animal could open its jaw wider than most animals.



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