Changing name from Irish to English...

muineachan · 16-08-2011 8:13pm #1

Edited to shorten:

Was thinking about changing my name back to the English version for my fiancé who has no Irish because otherwise shed have to have a feminine version of my name, and the english version would be easier for her. Anyone with any similar experience or opinion?

catbear · 16-08-2011 8:17pm

I'd break it off. Too complicated to put up.

muineachan · 16-08-2011 8:19pm

Lol fair enough

Krusader · 16-08-2011 8:35pm

Are you worried that people might think she has Irish when she doesn't`. At least with the Irish name other lads will know she's married and off limits, those with Irish of course

muineachan · 16-08-2011 8:41pm

No not worrired about people thinking she has Irish, she isn't either, it's more the fact we both speak in English to each other and the fact it changes with gender in Irish, whereas in English shed literally have the same name.

I dunno, it's not a problem for either of us, we'll happily go on as is, it's just a thought from me, the one with the leagan Gaelach.

Just looking for anyone who is in a similar situation. At the end of the day it's trivial I know, the amount of foreigners marrying into Irish names and vice verca, it's not like a name dictates your language. Infect I think I just answered my own question

catbear · 16-08-2011 8:48pm

As long as you're both happy. Best of luck in married life.

muineachan · 16-08-2011 8:49pm

catbear wrote: »

As long as you're both happy. Best of luck in married life.

You said a mouthful, thinking it was much of a muchness

Aard · 16-08-2011 9:30pm

If the Irish surname is the one you've had since birth (i.e. you yourself haven't changed it from English at any point) then there really is no English version, as such. It's your name and the history that goes with it. If the reason is as simple as something like pronunciation or the "Uí", then I wouldn't worry about it and just go ahead.

An gal gréine · 17-08-2011 10:35am

Would she not like to hold on to her own name, as many do now?

ballsymchugh · 17-08-2011 10:38am

been on plenty of irish courses as a youngster where there were some girls that dropped the 'Ní' in their name. Caomhánach for kavanagh springs to mind... actually, she was hot.
can you not do similar with your name?

muineachan · 17-08-2011 10:39am

An gal gréine wrote: »

Would she not like to hold on to her own name, as many do now?

Nah, we've talked about that and she Wants to take mine. I think I was just over thinking it last night but thanks for the replies.

Rhedyn · 23-08-2011 12:54am

If you were Polish you wouldn't be changing your name would you? So why change an Irish name?

muineachan · 23-08-2011 10:56am

Rhedyn wrote: »

If you were Polish you wouldn't be changing your name would you? So why change an Irish name?

Yep, your absolutely right. I will not be.

Magic Beans · 23-08-2011 11:01am

This is where somebody should say "Won't somebody please think of the children?".
What will they be called? Are you are letting a significant part of your heritage slip away from you and all your decendants just for a temporary convenience?

muineachan · 23-08-2011 11:02am

Magic Beans wrote: »

This is where somebody should say "Won't somebody please think of the children?".
What will they be called? Are you are letting a significant part of your heritage slip away from you and all your decendants just for a temporary convenience?

Yeah good point, I won't be changing my name.

getz · 23-08-2011 11:10am

muineachan wrote: »

Edited to shorten:

Was thinking about changing my name back to the English version for my fiancé who has no Irish because otherwise shed have to have a feminine version of my name, and the english version would be easier for her. Anyone with any similar experience or opinion?

be liberated/modern take her surname.

P. Breathnach · 24-08-2011 7:46am

muineachan wrote: »

... it changes with gender in Irish, whereas in English shed literally have the same name...

Can I focus your attention on the highlighted words? You don't have to follow Irish language rules when using English, so if your name were Ó Sé, she could become Pavla Ó Sé.

Herself, who has good Irish, does not lenite our surname in English-language environments, but does when using Irish.

muineachan · 24-08-2011 7:53am

P. Breathnach wrote: »

muineachan wrote: »

... it changes with gender in Irish, whereas in English shed literally have the same name...

Can I focus your attention on the highlighted words? You don't have to follow Irish language rules when using English, so if your name were Ó Sé, she could become Pavla Ó Sé.

Herself, who has good Irish, does not lenite our surname in English-language environments, but does when using Irish.

Oh right! I never thought of that. Would it not look a bit strange her taking my name officially as "Ó Sé"? She doesn't have much Irish but I'd if thought her not taking "Uí Shé" would look strange?

An gal gréine · 24-08-2011 10:44am

The late Nuala Ó Faoláin used the English language way.

muineachan · 24-08-2011 10:49am

An gal gréine wrote: »

The late Nuala Ó Faoláin used the English language way.

Good point, thanks guys I never thought of her taking my name without changing gender. I'll put it too her, see what she thinks about that.

P. Breathnach · 24-08-2011 10:49am

muineachan wrote: »

Oh right! I never thought of that. Would it not look a bit strange her taking my name officially as "Ó Sé"? She doesn't have much Irish but I'd if thought her not taking "Uí Shé" would look strange?

It's probably more bother explaining why there is some difference between the names than to ignore Irish usage when operating in English - particularly if she has a circle of non-Irish friends.

Following Irish usage also messes up alphabetical listings in English.

Dacelonid · 24-08-2011 10:58am

A guy in here work called his daughter (for example) Caitlin O'Súilleabháin, until we jokingly pointed out that realistically she should be called Caitlin Ni Súilleabháin.
Needless to say he really took it personally and changed the childs name, just to be correct. We all thought he was nuts, but there you have it. It does matter to some people.

muineachan · 24-08-2011 11:06am

Dacelonid wrote: »

A guy in here work called his daughter (for example) Caitlin O'Súilleabháin, until we jokingly pointed out that realistically she should be called Caitlin Ni Súilleabháin.
Needless to say he really took it personally and changed the childs name, just to be correct. We all thought he was nuts, but there you have it. It does matter to some people.

Poor guy! I can understand that though, our kids names will defo follow Irish rules, if your going to give then Irish names best not too confuse them further by mixing it up.

Just my poor fiancé who got landed with me, for better or for worse eh?

Gael · 24-08-2011 11:13am

Dacelonid wrote: »

A guy in here work called his daughter (for example) Caitlin O'Súilleabháin, until we jokingly pointed out that realistically she should be called Caitlin Ni Súilleabháin.
Needless to say he really took it personally and changed the childs name, just to be correct. We all thought he was nuts, but there you have it. It does matter to some people.

Ní Shúilleabháin I hope you told him! Wouldn't be nice to have to correct him twice.

Nuggles · 24-08-2011 12:23pm

Eh, why would you have to change yours? Can she not just use the English form of your surname, you use the Irish form?

An gal gréine · 24-08-2011 6:50pm

Dacelonid wrote: »

A guy in here work called his daughter (for example) Caitlin O'Súilleabháin, until we jokingly pointed out that realistically she should be called Caitlin Ni Súilleabháin.
Needless to say he really took it personally and changed the childs name, just to be correct. We all thought he was nuts, but there you have it. It does matter to some people.

Dont tell me he had an apostrophe after the O (and no fada over it) as well?

implausible · 27-08-2011 5:45pm

A former colleague of mine took her husband's surname word for word, without changing the gender. He is a native speaker and an Irish teacher. Mind you, it was an 'Ó' surname anyway, so it does sound better.

The kids can take the correct gender-appropriate version, seeing as it usually signifies 'son of' and 'daughter of' anyway.

deirdremf · 28-08-2011 9:47pm

An gal gréine wrote: »

The late Nuala Ó Faoláin used the English language way.

Not to mention Helen Ó Murchú and Bláthnaid Ó Brádaigh - both active in the Irish language movement.

muineachan · 28-08-2011 9:58pm

deirdremf wrote: »

An gal gréine wrote: »

The late Nuala Ó Faoláin used the English language way.

Not to mention Helen Ó Murchú and Bláthnaid Ó Brádaigh - both active in the Irish language movement.

I just think it looks a bit silly! If they dropped the fada n went O'Murchu etc fine but to keep an Irish language fada n then ignore the sex jus sounds weird, no?

P. Breathnach · 28-08-2011 10:12pm

muineachan wrote: »

I just think it looks a bit silly! If they dropped the fada n went O'Murchu etc fine but to keep an Irish language fada n then ignore the sex jus sounds weird, no?

I don't think it should be that big a step for you to fall in with their approach. There aren't really right and wrong answers: it's more a matter of style preference.

[I'm quite willing to get annoyed by needlessly bad Irish in Irish language environments, but I'm fairly relaxed about the use of Irish names in English language environments.]

muineachan · 28-08-2011 10:16pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

muineachan wrote: »

I just think it looks a bit silly! If they dropped the fada n went O'Murchu etc fine but to keep an Irish language fada n then ignore the sex jus sounds weird, no?

I don't think it should be that big a step for you to fall in with their approach. There aren't really right and wrong answers: it's more a matter of style preference.

[I'm quite willing to get annoyed by needlessly bad Irish in Irish language environments, but I'm fairly relaxed about the use of Irish names in English language environments.]

But a fada is part of the Irish language, so why keep part of the Irish language and ditch the sex? Too me id say either keep Irish language rules or don't.

P. Breathnach · 28-08-2011 11:11pm

muineachan wrote: »

But a fada is part of the Irish language, so why keep part of the Irish language and ditch the sex? Too me id say either keep Irish language rules or don't.

My first name has a fada: I put it in whether I am operating in Irish or English. Same applies to Herself: fada in both Irish and English.

It might seem odd to you at present; it doesn't feel that way to me. Give it a chance, and you can get used to it.

[PS: I feel an urge to add a fada to your username.]

muineachan · 28-08-2011 11:14pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

muineachan wrote: »

But a fada is part of the Irish language, so why keep part of the Irish language and ditch the sex? Too me id say either keep Irish language rules or don't.

My first name has a fada: I put it in whether I am operating in Irish or English. Same applies to Herself: fada in both Irish and English.

It might seem odd to you at present; it doesn't feel that way to me. Give it a chance, and you can get used to it.

[PS: I feel an urge to add a fada to your username.]

I dunno it feels a bit weird to operate half and half, I don't see why you'd keep one part of irish language rules in your name but then not others. Surely I'd either use and Irish name or not at all?

muineachan · 28-08-2011 11:15pm

muineachan wrote: »

P. Breathnach wrote: »

muineachan wrote: »

But a fada is part of the Irish language, so why keep part of the Irish language and ditch the sex? Too me id say either keep Irish language rules or don't.

My first name has a fada: I put it in whether I am operating in Irish or English. Same applies to Herself: fada in both Irish and English.

It might seem odd to you at present; it doesn't feel that way to me. Give it a chance, and you can get used to it.

[PS: I feel an urge to add a fada to your username.]

I dunno it feels a bit weird to operate half and half, I don't see why you'd keep one part of irish language rules in your name but then not others. Surely I'd either use and Irish name or not at all?

Ps lean ort lol

P. Breathnach · 29-08-2011 8:28am

muineachán wrote: »

I dunno it feels a bit weird to operate half and half, I don't see why you'd keep one part of irish language rules in your name but then not others. Surely I'd either use and Irish name or not at all?

I have just one name, a name that many people would consider to be Irish. You could say that the English form of my name is the same as the Irish one. I'll put it to you the other way: why should I mess about with my name because I am operating in a different language?

Most of my life is lived through English, a bit of it through Irish, and a week or two every year through fractured French. Only in Irish do I modulate my name, or that of anybody else (e.g. the vocative I use for Mícheál in English is Mícheál; in Irish it's A Mhichíl).

As I said earlier, it comes down to style preference, and if my practice does not appeal to you, then so be it. But do bear in mind when struggling with your challenge that my solution has the advantage of being very convenient.

muineachan · 29-08-2011 6:13pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I have just one name, a name that many people would consider to be Irish. You could say that the English form of my name is the same as the Irish one. I'll put it to you the other way: why should I mess about with my name because I am operating in a different language?

Most of my life is lived through English, a bit of it through Irish, and a week or two every year through fractured French. Only in Irish do I modulate my name, or that of anybody else (e.g. the vocative I use for Mícheál in English is Mícheál; in Irish it's A Mhichíl).

As I said earlier, it comes down to style preference, and if my practice does not appeal to you, then so be it. But do bear in mind when struggling with your challenge that my solution has the advantage of being very convenient.

Thanks for clarifying, certainly something to be thought about.

P. Breathnach · 29-08-2011 7:41pm

I told Herself about this discussion, and she made an observation that might be helpful: let your intended make the choice.

muineachan · 29-08-2011 7:49pm

Thanks, Yeah good plan, i was talking to herself about it and she shes in two minds but she does think keeping 'Ó....' rather than 'ní...' is an option worth considering so shed have exactly the same name as me.

Changing name from Irish to English...

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