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Why I'm getting sick of Android and considering iPhone!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,225 ✭✭✭Chardee MacDennis


    I have both at the moment, it's really a matter if choice. I love the tinkering I can do on android but I do like the simplicity of iPhone.

    I wouldn't give an android to, for example, my dad though as I think it would be too much hassle where the iPhone he finds easy to use.

    And to all the bitterness this thread seems to have raised with some posters above - just lol at how pathetic you are, getting worked up coz someone chooses a different os!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 836 ✭✭✭iknorr


    totally agree with iwo and BastardPrince.

    Its just annoying when i get remarks like the below.

    A friend wants to get a smartphone. I showed him my DHD and he was very impressed.
    His OH thinks that because it doesnt have viber ( viber is the new cool app on iphone, aparently) that its a crap phone. Whats wrong with skype? Does the same and more.

    Its all about status levels and having the new cool apple thing. Any proper tech savvy person will have an android!

    As i write this, my office buddy disagrees while he pulls out his, iphone, ipod, and ipad. says he has an ishuffle at home and his old 3gs for backup and is looking to buy an ipad 2 and macbook air.
    I ask him why so much - his replay cos its apple and theyr great. They have all the best gear.
    I mention android, he scratches his head. i go into some detail about smart phones. his response is a puzzled look followed by "iphone mate, you cant beat that".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭racer1


    This is my opinion of iPhone v android and I have owned both. Android can do everything you can do on iPhone. But iPhone can't do everything you can do on Android. That's my opinion and I maybe wrong. I like both phones too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Kensington


    iwo wrote: »
    IPhone is mega boring, I can't imagine looking at phone and see the same layout ..also I cannot stand some people thinking that possessing an iPhone make them better than others, this arrogance is scary...also every time I ask iPhone owner why they think that iPhone is better they say....."yyyy It's iPhone man!" Some clowns think that spending 600 on this toy bring their status to upper level - crazy :)
    I think consistency is a good thing. I find it annoying when screens are hopping all over the place and changing colour, it looks sloppy.
    Couldn't agree more about the iPhone arrogance though. I own an iPhone because it does what I want it to quickly, it's slick (I find android can get very laggy at times), the 4 has a great camera and screen and it just works. Not because it's the current must have accessory. If you need to have an iPhone as a status symbol, well that's a bit pathetic tbh. Buy whatever works for you.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭mickoneill30


    I wouldn't give an android to, for example, my dad though as I think it would be too much hassle where the iPhone he finds easy to use.

    A couple of people have said that on this thread. I gave my missus my old Android when I got my HD :D

    She uses it for music, Skype, phoning / texting, photos, checking her emails and the odd bit of internet surfing. I'd say that'd be the average simple iPhone users use too.

    She has no clue about the market or changing widgets or anything else about it. Every so often I take it off her and go into market and hit update all. Android might have the potential to do so much more but it's not too complicated for simpler users in my opinion.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,324 ✭✭✭tallus


    Having owned an ipad, and now owning an Archos 101, I have to say I'm happier with the Android tablet over the ipad as it's much more open to the individual user , but the build quality, and user interface was so much nicer on the ipad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    The biggest issue with Android is that it is never issued as a stand alone product. Most manufactures stick their own software on top, be it Sense, TouchWizz. With Apple it's just iOS and you know where you stand, WP7 all manufactures just put the WP7 OS on their and leave it alone, grand you know what you have to work with.

    When I started with an Android I spend days figuring out what was part of it, what wasn't and try to delete as I wanted. Having used the 3 big OS's out there I still try an get my personal Android setup to resemble iOS and WP7 as I feel there are the optimum, most efficient and quickest navigation layout without all the extra unrelated Android baggage that gets thrown on top of a perfectly capable OS.

    Still though, I miss a good few apps on Android that I have on iOS and nothing currently on Android comes close to doing their job. I need about 3-4 Android apps to do what one could do on iOS.

    Google need to unify Android more, it's far to fragmented. Stop manufactures dumping their sub par software on top and create a system where by when a new version of Android is released, all current Android devices can connect to a unified site an update straight out so long as the internal hardware can be supported. A far cry from the current system of waiting on the manufactures and networks to roll out the upgrades which is just plain backward for a supposedly open source device and software that every month is getting closer to Apple because that is the only support system that seems to work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,275 ✭✭✭evolutionqy7


    angel01 wrote: »
    What I love about android, is that you generally don't have to buy any apps, unlike the iphone or even windows marketplace :)

    You again?

    Hmm generally all the savage games that cost quite alot on Android and even more on W7 are more expensive. Like decent HD and 3D games.

    Both platforms have free apps. Like Android is the only one that has advertisement in apps?

    Id say theres more free apps on iOS now than on Android.

    I see Gameloft giving away all the cool games for iOS for under 1 euro what costs what costs 3.50+ on Android.

    And tbh theres sweet feck all decent games and apps on Android


  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭iwo


    Not all of us - phone users what to play on phones...and, I would hate to pick up any phone looking exactly the same....I'm very happy to see different UIs and this is why Android in interesting and fun. I still think that this discussion is pointless as we talk about personal preferences.....world isn't black and white, and figures are clear - Android just hammers other systems and I don't care why, this is just a fact.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,275 ✭✭✭evolutionqy7


    Tbh world is black and white. Most users that don't even find their way to forums to do some research or to chat don't give a feck about custom and different. They just want to use something to use without having to look at the manual. Android might be easy to use for us, but not for the rest of the world . The industry standard right now is iOS. Don't know how many times i've heard my friends say oh thats cool and thats better than the iphone when i showed of android or win7. They still go out and get the iPhone. The only reason android took over iOS was cause you can get android phones cheaper. Especialy low end android phones. Apple built a really good product image and it will be very hard to take it away from them.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭iwo


    Whatever...just make yourself happy and let other people enjoy their choices and preferences.


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭bd250110


    I don't understand the bitterness on the thread from Android users. I don't see why preferring iOS is so awful, but each to their own.

    Someone mentioned that the Android handsets "sync" better with a PC. I would argue that "drag and drop" is not sync, which to my mind is an automatic process. iOS happily syncs with a PC or Mac via iTunes, iDisk/MobileMe or Google Services, giving more options. Third party programmes for Android like DoubleTwist look and feel just like....iTunes!

    People like the "free" apps, but the problem is that developers can not make anywhere near as much money on Android as they can on iOS. It's so easy to buy an app/song/etc on an iOS device. All you need is your iTunes password. At the minute the advantage is to Apple, but if Google gets NFC and phone based payements going, things could change.

    I think a bit of criticism is healthy, platforms always need improving. IMHO Android has notifications absolutely nailed, Honeycomb shows the UI is being overhauled. Old arguments like "iPhone has no flash" and "iOS has a better UI" will not hold water anymore. Both Apple and Google are going to being some fantastic devices to the table in the coming years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,898 ✭✭✭✭seanybiker


    I agree with one or two of the posts here. I rather android personally but if my father wanted a new phone I wouldnt tell him to go android. He's bad enough with using his tocco lite as it is.
    Op having a phone for over a year and only getting annoyed with it now is fairly good going for a phone to be honest. I never had a phone for over a year. Jaysus I normally get bored after a few months. At least you had the phone long enough to defintiley make up your mind if you want android or not. I used my brtohers iPhone once and it done my nut in. It's not a horrible phone at all its just I don't like it. Go for whatever phone you want. If you bought a desire over a year ago I think its safe to say you can afford to change from one Os to another if you don't like it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Interesting discussion.

    IMHO, the iOS-Android debate is adopting eerily similar tones reminiscent of the old Windows-Linux debate. And certainly there are strong parallels, with the iOS geared towards the non-technical, "I want it to work with a minimum of hassle", demographic and Android appealing more towards the more technical, "I don't want to be told what I can or cannot do with my phone" demographic.

    And in this regard, perhaps there will never be an overall dominant phone OS, because unless the iOS is given a jail-broken option, or Android is able to perfect a user experience that even my mother could master in twenty minutes, the twain will be doomed to service different markets.

    For example, the techie in me loves Android - I can tweak it to my heart's content, write and install my own software with ease and generally not be limited by what The Divine Job tells me to do (without jail-breaking the damned thing whenever there's an update).

    However, the businessman in me dislikes how the UI can often be flaky, the market is rudimentary and open to malicious or simply downright badly written apps being offered and, most of all, that I have to find alternatives if I don't want Google to have access to all my data (syncing with Outlook, being a case in point).

    Now I can navigate around or otherwise deal with all of Androids limitations - but only because I am tech savvy. My mother is a complete tech-luddite. My father is more so than many of his advanced age, but even then he wouldn't be able to manage most of it. Less said about my OH the better. Indeed, most people (not to be found on Boards) would not be able to tweak their Android phone to their needs. Most don't want to have to.

    So, it'll be interesting how both OS's progress, between Apple's moves towards more open development with HTML5 and Google's move to clean up the GUI. However, there remains the distinct possibility that the two will remain, much like Windows (or increasingly Apple) and Linux, servicing two different markets that will never see eye-to-eye.


  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭iwo


    I agree with on everything except windows vs Unix comparison.
    1. There are more phones selling with Android on board
    2. Android took over, symbian and ios

    Where in windows vs Unix situation, windows is still a champion...

    Also, I don't believe that ios will be less restricted as this is what Apple people wants, they don't like changes and tweaking, they just looking for "simplicity"
    Apple wins with apps and design which are very easy to catch up from strategy point of view. I'm sure that Android will grab more people when apps will start be much better on this OS.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭Kinetic^


    I see where the OP is coming from. I cba with messing around with root or whatever else on the phone. As long as I can make/receive calls, use apps like evernote/dropbox/rememberthemilk etc then I'm happy. I'll probably switch from Android to iphone next time around depending on cost and features.
    iwo wrote: »
    Where in windows vs Unix situation, windows is still a champion...

    It's not as simple as that. On desktops yes but on servers not so much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 704 ✭✭✭LukeS_


    Adobe are actually working very hard to get flash on the iOS platform without the need to download anything. Supposedly they're going to have a version where it'll be playing in HTML5 but just converted or something.

    After owning an iPhone 4 now and jailbreaking it and tweaking it to my hearts content I don't think I'll be able to own an Android phone in the near future (I usually change phones every 3-4 months). Ive even found a tweak to simply drag and drop on Windows instead of having to use iTunes. Its called 'PwnTunes' and works perfectly. iOS just works the way the consumer wants it to.

    Why I really think that Android is dominating iOS is all to do with the price. If there were multiple iPhones set at different price ranges then I'd say it would be the other way around. Most of my friends still don't even know what 'Android' is but they buy Android phones because they're cheap. No doubt if Apple had a phone out for like €200 PAYG then more people would have them as all of them are clued in to what an iPhone is at this stage.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭mickoneill30


    Kinetic^ wrote: »
    I see where the OP is coming from. I cba with messing around with root or whatever else on the phone. As long as I can make/receive calls, use apps like evernote/dropbox/rememberthemilk etc then

    But you can do all that without messing around with rooting the phone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    iwo wrote: »
    I agree with on everything except windows vs Unix comparison.
    1. There are more phones selling with Android on board
    2. Android took over, symbian and ios

    Where in windows vs Unix situation, windows is still a champion...
    However I was referring to the old Windows-Linux debate, not the current one with the benefit of hindsight. About seven to ten years ago there was a lot more hype on how Linux was going to overtake Windows and how it was "only one release away" from being as user friendly and stable as it. To this day, I still have to find a Linux distro that doesn't need serious tweaking on a PC.

    Naturally the comparison is not perfect, but it wasn't really meant to be. It was more an observation about how techie-centric and luddite-centric products differ and how Android and iOS are presently servicing different markets.

    And btw, sales don't really tell the full picture - there are still more phones selling with Symbian on board than any other OS ;)
    Also, I don't believe that ios will be less restricted as this is what Apple people wants, they don't like changes and tweaking, they just looking for "simplicity"
    True, but Apple are not stupid either and they will bend to market forces if the demand is there. Additionally, Apple may have no option but to open up further as the anti-trust vultures are already circling and they will have to make concessions to demonstrate how they're not anti-competitive.
    Apple wins with apps and design which are very easy to catch up from strategy point of view. I'm sure that Android will grab more people when apps will start be much better on this OS.
    Only one release away...


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,417 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    I love my iphone and find it's perfect for what I want in a phone.
    I had an ipad and sold it as a mate was going to Austin and I was going to ask him to pick me up the 2nd gen. However his trip got cancelled at the last minute so I'm without a tablet at the moment.
    Ideally I want the ipad hardware with honeycomb on it..
    It doesn't bother me on the iphone but it annoyed the hell out of me on the ipad that I couldn't drag and drop and that I needed to install xbmc to actually play movies without having to convert them or upscale them for the higher resolution of the ipad.
    I'm holding tough now to see what the 10" galaxy tab is like before taking the plunge..but I miss having my ipad around..for reading , quick browsing of the net etc, reading the paper in the morning.
    I'm hoping the tab will come close to it..


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,417 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    iknorr wrote: »
    totally agree with iwo and BastardPrince.

    Its just annoying when i get remarks like the below.

    A friend wants to get a smartphone. I showed him my DHD and he was very impressed.
    His OH thinks that because it doesnt have viber ( viber is the new cool app on iphone, aparently) that its a crap phone. Whats wrong with skype? Does the same and more.

    Its all about status levels and having the new cool apple thing. Any proper tech savvy person will have an android!

    As i write this, my office buddy disagrees while he pulls out his, iphone, ipod, and ipad. says he has an ishuffle at home and his old 3gs for backup and is looking to buy an ipad 2 and macbook air.
    I ask him why so much - his replay cos its apple and theyr great. They have all the best gear.
    I mention android, he scratches his head. i go into some detail about smart phones. his response is a puzzled look followed by "iphone mate, you cant beat that".


    First off Viber is miles better than skype..plus no need to create an account, it simply logs you as your number and tells you if your contacts have viber installed.
    It's also in development for android which I'm looking forward to as Viber will really explode onto the scene then as at the moment I can only use it for friends with an iphone.

    As for the mate buying all the apple gear....apple have developed their ios etc and laid it out so that a 2yr old can use it...it's really really easy to use. Which means you get idiots that buy it because they think it's the coolest phone out there, and the best thing since sliced pan because it's so easy to use. To them that means it has to be the best even though they don't have a clue about the whole technical side of things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,275 ✭✭✭evolutionqy7


    Sc@recrow wrote: »
    apple have developed their ios etc and laid it out so that a 2yr old can use it...it's really really easy to use. Which means you get idiots that buy it because they think it's the coolest phone out there, and the best thing since sliced pan because it's so easy to use. To them that means it has to be the best even though they don't have a clue about the whole technical side of things.

    Thats just great marketing. Its marketed as an easy to use phone.

    Doesnt make it an easy to use phone. In my opinion going through its settings and all is confusing the first few times.

    I wouldnt see alot of difference between iOS and Android. Their nearly identical UI's. The only difference that one has 3 extra buttons and an app drawer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    iwo wrote: »
    Hi, excuse me my ignorance but what is your point ? If you are unhappy with android why don't you simply switch to iPhone?
    iwo wrote: »
    All you doing is trying to open another (geezus) debate iOS vs android? seriously....are you able to take more of this sh!t? :)
    Again, possessing a phone isn't possessing a mortgage or something like that so just buy iphone..you get bored..go back to android.
    iwo wrote: »
    congratulations... you started another iOS vs android topic :):) as I said few minutes ago ;)

    I appreciate that you are obviously above all those repetitive rehashing of the same old argument. Sorry for making you click into my post. I mean, obviously you didn't have the choice to ignore it. Sorry bout that.
    iwo wrote: »
    IPhone is mega boring, I can't imagine looking at phone and see the same layout ..also I cannot stand some people thinking that possessing an iPhone make them better than others, this arrogance is scary...also every time I ask iPhone owner why they think that iPhone is better they say....."yyyy It's iPhone man!" Some clowns think that spending 600 on this toy bring their status to upper level - crazy :)

    Obviously android users aren't in any way arrogant or conceited, judging by your posts!
    iwo wrote: »
    Not all of us - phone users what to play on phones...and, I would hate to pick up any phone looking exactly the same....I'm very happy to see different UIs and this is why Android in interesting and fun. I still think that this discussion is pointless as we talk about personal preferences.....world isn't black and white, and figures are clear - Android just hammers other systems and I don't care why, this is just a fact.

    Wait, aren't you above all this? And in no way arrogant.
    iwo wrote: »
    Whatever...just make yourself happy and let other people enjoy their choices and preferences.

    True that. Even all those clowns with iPhones.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    http://www.iphonedownloadblog.com/2011/04/18/iphone-5-to-sport-a5-processor-and-8-mp-camera/

    New iphone 5 is only getting the A5 chip, 1.0Ghz dual core. Apple always do this, purposely fcuk their products. There's no denying the iphone 4 is a great phone, but why not go for the 1.2Ghz cpu like the Galaxy S 2 and Htc Sensation are getting. Bet the iphone 6 comes out a few months later and has the 1.2Ghz cpu the iphone 5 should have. But of course there are sheep that will queue up for them, just because they're new and Apple, no other reason.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Just a few comments in response to all this.

    Firstly, I'm amazed at some of the responses provided. While I'm glad to see that people are passionate about their phone choices , it's ridiculous, immature and petty to call people clowns or technotards for a particularly choice. To be honest it reflects more poorly on you than an iPhone user.

    For the records, while not a complete nerd, I'm far from a technotard (whatever that may be). I'm very tch savvy and capable. However, at the end of the day its a phone and Im just looking for usability and functions that suits my needs. Sure, there might be technically superior options than iTunes for example, but having looked around I've found that none of the others provide the functions I need. E.g. I haven't found any other program that tracks play counts across computer and devices, and allows me to use smartplaylists in the same way as iTunes.

    I've been using iSyncr on android to track playconts and sync back to iTunes to keep this going.


    Some posters have mentioned that android is better at syncing because it allows drag and drop or wider media uploading choices. As pointed out else where, that's not syncing, it's merely moving content around. I know there are some android syncing options which work well like double twist and winamp, but again they don't provide the functionality that iTunes does.

    The might be faster or more flexible, but ultimately I'm going to choose the product that meets my needs.

    Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't pissed off with android because I had issues after flashing a new rom. I understand that if you mess with settings, you will probably have issues.

    What pissed me off was that I had to root it. I had to root and flash a new rom in the first place because of the inadequate internal memory on the desire. I knew of that limitation buying the phone so I guess I can't complain. But even now, most of the phones seem to separate internal memory for apps and other storage. The galaxy s has 16gb memory, but it's set up like an sd card, not part of the internal memory. I imagine the galaxy s 2 will be similar in set up. At least with iPhone, you have what you have and there is nit distinction in memory types.

    Obviously the ideal would be to combine iPhone style memory with sd card, but until somebody does that, you have to make a choice.

    As for people saying that the android Market is going to catch up with iTunes any day now, I was working under the same assumption myself for the past year.

    But while there are oodles of new androids being sold, most are low end devices which aren't capable of running the high end apps. So there isn't the same incentive to produce high end games and graphically intense apps , because while android might have the highest Market share, only a small percentage of those are high end devices.

    Another major issue is the fragmentation. People are championing android's openness. And until recently so did I. But frankly, at this point I would prefer google to take control android and lock it down to devices not meeting their specifications.

    A number of apps I've tried have had difficulties running on my specific phone. Gun brothers, one of the high end games to launch recently had no comparability for a d pad on the desire for the first few weeks of launch. I've also bought other games which wouldn't work on it. My sister has a Galaxy S, which couldn't run Skype, yet my desire had no problem with it.

    At the end of the day, it's a personal choice and to each their own. I posted originally because I wanted to see what others thought about my specific grievances, which were gained from a years use. They weren't just the usual my phone is better than yours stuff that I've seen here. I wanted to see what people who had switched between the two thought on the issue.

    Anyway, I did go with the iPhone. Still not sure if I will exercise the 14 day cancellation or not though. I'm fully aware of it's limitations, which are many, and there are many aspects of android which i feel superior. Bur at the end of he day it's a matter of deciding whether androids customisation options outweighs iPhones ease of use.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    PogMoThoin wrote: »
    http://www.iphonedownloadblog.com/2011/04/18/iphone-5-to-sport-a5-processor-and-8-mp-camera/

    New iphone 5 is only getting the A5 chip, 1.0Ghz dual core. Apple always do this, purposely fcuk their products. There's no denying the iphone 4 is a great phone, but why not go for the 1.2Ghz cpu like the Galaxy S 2 and Htc Sensation are getting. Bet the iphone 6 comes out a few months later and has the 1.2Ghz cpu the iphone 5 should have. But of course there are sheep that will queue up for them, just because they're new and Apple, no other reason.

    Then again you could argue that apples incremental approach to iPhone upgrades ensures that no iPhone is left behind, unlike android. At least with an iPhone you know you will get at least two cycles of os upgrades, and you won't be shut out of certain apps due to the limitations of year old hardware.

    Again, does insulting iPhone users make you feel better about yourself?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    floggg wrote: »
    Then again you could argue that apples incremental approach to iPhone upgrades ensures that no iPhone is left behind, unlike android. At least with an iPhone you know you will get at least two cycles of os upgrades, and you won't be shut out of certain apps due to the limitations of year old hardware.

    Again, does insulting iPhone users make you feel better about yourself?

    I'm not insulting iphone users, the iphone 4 is a great phone, my comment is aimed at those who buy Apple products just because they're Apple. Here's Apples usual approach, they do make good hardware initially, create a name for their product, then completely fcuk over their customers by releasing an under spec'd new piece of hardware knowing it will sell regardless, the sheep will buy it. The old iphone lacked things it should have got, like 3g, same with the ipad, it lacks lots of things like card readers, usb ports.

    Take a look at the MacStore, it shows the cheapest MacBook comes in at a grand even, but its got an ancient 4 year old core2duo, a dinosaur in todays world when compared to the i3, i5 and i7. Then its only got 2GB of ram, half as much as the normal laptop being sold in Pcworld for under 400 quid. http://store.apple.com/ie/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook?mco=MTAyNTQzMzk


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭shadowninty


    iOS is much better for games - that doesnt mean Androids bad for them

    What's with all the blaming Custom ROM use?
    That said its quite easy


    As for internal memory - the Desire had screwed up partitions - can be fixed as you did


    It seems your happy with the iPhone - if you really are stick with it
    But if your willing to put in the effort you can get a dual core Android for the same price :)

    _________

    @PogMoThoin, Apple has better SW HW intergration, so who cares
    Only SE may beat them on camera


    BTW, I'm an Android fan running CyanogenMod7 on my repatriationed to death ZTE Blade.. perhaps I'm biased :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭iwo


    floggg wrote: »
    I appreciate that you are obviously above all those repetitive rehashing of the same old argument. Sorry for making you click into my post. I mean, obviously you didn't have the choice to ignore it. Sorry bout that.



    Obviously android users aren't in any way arrogant or conceited, judging by your posts!



    Wait, aren't you above all this? And in no way arrogant.



    True that. Even all those clowns with iPhones.

    You obviously have problems with understandin / analysing while reading.
    Also I said " some clowns..." not "all" so quote me properly and don't change it to suit your point. This is android forum and im here for reason - surprise, surprise I'm Android user! Yes, I am.... you just came and started yapping and moaning about nothing and everything, like 5 years old kid.
    I gave facts and real figures which are good arguments.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭racer1


    This is like a Liverpool supporter going into a United forum and saying Liverpool are better than United. Your going to get the ..... thrown back at you.


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