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Bulmer Hobson and the Nationalist Movement in Twentieth-Century Ireland

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  • 25-06-2009 1:39am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭


    Sounds like an interesting read...


    Irish Times, 25th June 2009

    BOOK OF THE DAY: JEFFREY DUDGEON reviews Bulmer Hobson and the Nationalist Movement in Twentieth-Century Ireland : By Marnie Hay; Manchester University Press; 272pp, £18.99
    THIS IS the first biography of Bulmer Hobson, the leading Irish republican who fell from grace in 1916. After a long career building the separatist movement first in the North and then Dublin, his pinnacle was as secretary of the Irish Volunteers. He was also a member of the IRB’s Supreme Council.
    Within the volunteers he was allied with two other Northerners, his long-time friend Roger Casement and Eoin MacNeill, the volunteers’ chief of staff.
    They had compromised with Redmond to avoid a split and held out against the insurrectionists. However, the IRB Military Council and Hobson’s erstwhile comrades, Tom Clarke and Seán MacDermott, successfully conspired to effect the Rising, along with Connolly who was to suggest chloroforming Hobson.
    Hay effectively recounts the complicated events of 1914-16 where Hobson went from organiser of the Howth gunrunning to a lonely cell in Phibsborough on Easter Saturday, thus becoming 1916’s first POW.
    He was arrested by his own organisation, the IRB, to stop him calling off the Rising as he was in the process of doing. MacNeill dithered and changed his mind several times but finally advertised his order against “special action” – which made the IRB put the start a day forward, brilliantly fooling the authorities. Ironically if Hobson had prospered in the movement he would have come into his own in the War of Independence as he had long advocated guerrilla war tactics and trained Volunteers accordingly. Hobson’s Northern Protestant origins – he was born in Magdala Street in Belfast – seem to have been thoroughly sloughed off. He foolishly regarded Ulster’s resistance as due to “English interference”.
    This incomprehension stemmed largely from having a father who was a home ruler and a mother a suffragist. His Quakerism also disappeared once he became a militarist in 1904. Hobson’s arrest saved his life but killed his political future. His enemies spread tales of cowardice and, most dangerously, ridiculed him. A later lack of arrest – he hid with his parents in Marino, Co Down, for a year – or imprisonment, unlike the experiences of Eoin MacNeill and Seán Lester, a fellow IRB member, prevented his rehabilitation.
    Once arrested by the IRB, Hobson had his reputation irrevocably stained. Countess Markievicz wanted to shoot him while Seán O’Casey loathed him, memorably mocking him as having “a moony face, bulbous nose, and long hair covered by a mutton-pie hat”. This hostility was exacerbated by Hobson’s constant resistance to socialist ideas and Labour involvements. Pearse, however, said he was “not lacking in physical courage.”
    Hobson lived in quiet rage and obscurity for the next five decades. Instead of being a leader of Ireland he worked for 25 years as deputy director of stamping in the Revenue Commissioners.
    He did maintain his enthusiasm for the Gaeltacht, and sent his two children to a Quaker school in Waterford, but his marriage to a Catholic, Claire Gregan, which had required a papal dispensation, failed in the 1930s.
    He became a follower of Social Credit and an early advocate of quantitative easing or the government printing money. Hobson died in Connemara in 1969. People were surprised he was still alive.
    Hay details a most interesting story in a readable style within a somewhat academic structure. The book disappoints in having only one photograph of Hobson which however confirms the police description of him as “theatrical.”

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0625/1224249509440.html


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Have you any thoughts on Hobson yourself IIMII? I guess for most this is the first they'll have heard of the man. I've only come across him recently in my studies, seems to have lived an interesting life. Great topic choice by Ms. Hay's for her phd as well; interesting life story, original topic, good timing and a guaranteed market.

    He became so obscure after 1916 that many thought he was a pseudonym used by one of the Rising leaders.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    To be honest, I don't know much about him at all, and what I did know is contained in the article. I don't think it surprising that there were a number of figures like himself that were jettisoned by the movement during that uncertainty on how to proceed during the run up to the Easter Rising - when the ball was entering play, those who hesitated ran the risk of being seen as weak. Nor would I take it as a given that he would have been in his element during the guerilla campaign, as obviously the pre-1916 environment was much different to the post. But in his contribution to the nationalist cause and his misfortune to have stood in the way of the rising, he is seems a very interesting character. I'll pick this book up when I get a chance as I'd like to know a little more about the man


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 brian.mitchell


    Nice to see interest in this book, though I must confess that I have not yet read it. The review of the book contains one minor inaccuracy however, in that it says that Bulmer Hobson died in Connemara, in fact he died in Castleconnell, County Limerick.
    If you do read the book, I would be grateful if you would share your thoughts on here regarding it.
    My interest stems from the fact that I am a grandson of Bulmer Hobson.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    Interesting guy. He was probably aquainted with my own great-grandfather and grandfather through the Keating branch of Conradh na Gaeilge. I'll post back when I get a chance to read it


  • Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭man1


    He was very good friends with my great-grandfather Eamon Martin.
    They were on the original Fianna Eireann Committee. Bulmer was elected President (he was the driving force behind the setting up of the organisation) at the original meeting in August 1909.
    It is the 100th anniversary next month.
    I have Bulmers book "Ireland yesterday and tomorrow". Very interesting read, It is a history of the nationalist movement from his own perspective and also deals with Ireland becoming a nation in economic and political terms. It is fairly factual and correct although a few facts are wrong probably due to the fact that he wrote it when he was 83 so his memory was surely playing tricks on him.
    He wrote a few other books aswell.
    He was a great man in my opinion and was never given the respect and recognition he deserved. He was probably one of the most important figures in Irelands quest for independence and has surprisingly been overlooked by most historians. Why I don't know??

    Will look forward to reading this new book.

    Bulmer is behind Markievicz in the 3rd row from the front and 4 places to the left of her head.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    I think he's been rehabilitated into history so to speak in the last twenty years or so, culminating in the book in the OP. There are many reasons why he would've been written out of history though, he opposed the rising and was actually 'arrested' by the rebels, and was from a Quaker family from the north I think. As a founding father of the modern independent Ireland he's far too ambivalent. That's not me judging him, just an opinion on how others might have judged him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Mairin1978


    I have both Marnie Hay's biography and Hobson's autobiography "IYT". It's very interesting how he completely cut out his wife out of his memoirs. Totally. As if she had never existed. Not even a brief mention of her, not even in passing. I don't know the details of their breakup, but it must've been quite traumatic for Bulmer. He never mentioned his wife to his neighbors after his retirement. Poor man. He tried so hard to find some peace of mind.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    I think he's been rehabilitated into history so to speak in the last twenty years or so, culminating in the book in the OP. There are many reasons why he would've been written out of history though, he opposed the rising and was actually 'arrested' by the rebels, and was from a Quaker family from the north I think. As a founding father of the modern independent Ireland he's far too ambivalent. That's not me judging him, just an opinion on how others might have judged him.

    I was a bit like you also (Knew nothing about him until I bumped into him last year in the course of my studies) He struck me as an incredible man, and I couldn't understand why he was not well known. I suppose your explanation does make a bit of sense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Mairin1978


    He truly IS an incredible man - unforgivably underrated by history. I just finished writing a historical novel (due this summer) where he's the central figure. With the anniversary of 1916 approaching, I imagine there will be a great deal of re-evaluating.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Mairin1978


    Denerick wrote: »
    I was a bit like you also (Knew nothing about him until I bumped into him last year in the course of my studies) He struck me as an incredible man, and I couldn't understand why he was not well known. I suppose your explanation does make a bit of sense.

    I think Bulmer did not WANT to be known. He faded into obscurity because it was his choice. He was a proud man and would not stoop. He could have resurrected his career. But that would involve eating the humble pie. I imagine, it would be hard for him, after he had tasted of power and fame circa 1913.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    I came accross him again just recently looking up things for a Patrick Pearse thread and he comes across as a thoroughly decent guy.

    He inducted Pearse into the IRB and also helped him fundraise for St Enda's in the US.

    Here is a link on him

    http://www.nli.ie/1916/pdf/3.2.1.pdf

    2895978_1_413_2.jpg

    Not only did he have a cool name but the picture in the coat is mighty.

    I would love to know more about him too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Mairin1978


    Yes, definitely a fabulous name. His real first name was John, but his mother thought that John Hobson was too bland.

    He was horribly malnourished and underweight under that coat, probably shivering all the time. He must have had superhuman endurance, to have worked 10-12 hours a day doing uncompensated work for the Volunteers, and then finding journalism gigs here and there. Pearse used him to get into the IRB and the Fenians in the US, and as soon as he got what he wanted, he stabbed his mentor in the back by writing nasty letters to Devoy, saying that Bulmer was not to be trusted with money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Mairin1978 wrote: »
    Yes, definitely a fabulous name. His real first name was John, but his mother thought that John Hobson was too bland.

    He was horribly malnourished and underweight under that coat, probably shivering all the time. He must have had superhuman endurance, to have worked 10-12 hours a day doing uncompensated work for the Volunteers, and then finding journalism gigs here and there. Pearse used him to get into the IRB and the Fenians in the US, and as soon as he got what he wanted, he stabbed his mentor in the back by writing nasty letters to Devoy, saying that Bulmer was not to be trusted with money.

    If you scroll down to page 18 & 19 here you will see a copy of Hobsons signed statement on this to th Bureau of Military History from 1948.

    http://www.nli.ie/1916/pdf/3.2.1.pdf

    If I am not mistaken Hobson obtained the letters( written by Pearse) and donated them to the National Archive.

    A possible reason for Pearses behaviour was that he was very short of money and hoped to raise 10,000 dollars from his 1913 Lecture Tour which Hobson was very influential in arrangeing.He got 3,000 dollars.

    Given that they were both raising funds from the same sources Pearse treated him as the competition.

    I reckon Hobson had a legitimate reason to dislike and feel agrieved as he had stepped in and helped another nationalist educator.

    That is how it appears to me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Mairin1978


    CDfm wrote: »
    If you scroll down to page 18 & 19 here you will see a copy of Hobsons signed statement on this to th Bureau of Military History from 1948.

    http://www.nli.ie/1916/pdf/3.2.1.pdf

    If I am not mistaken Hobson obtained the letters( written by Pearse) and donated them to the National Archive.

    A possible reason for Pearses behaviour was that he was very short of money and hoped to raise 10,000 dollars from his 1913 Lecture Tour which Hobson was very influential in arrangeing.He got 3,000 dollars.

    Given that they were both raising funds from the same sources Pearse treated him as the competition.

    I reckon Hobson had a legitimate reason to dislike and feel agrieved as he had stepped in and helped another nationalist educator.

    That is how it appears to me.

    Yep, I've been through all those letters whilst doing research for my novel. I wonder how Hobson got his hands on those letters. No doubt, Joe McGarrity and John Devoy must have handed those over to him. Pearse really was a fast learner when it came to intrigue. Hobson was a very honest and straightforward man, which in the end worked against him. Pearse and McDermott were schemers. Hobson never went behind anyone's back. It's really heartbreaking that Hobson's friends turned against him. Countess Markiewicz, whom he brought into the Sinn Fein movement, later accused him of having done so only to annoy Griffiths. Kathleen Clarke accused him of having used Daly, her firstborn, to manipulate his way into the Clarke family, which is ridiculous. He showed so much kindness to so many people on so many occasions, and every time this kindness blew up in his face.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    He wrote a History of the Irish Volunteers in 1918 - which I havent read - but which is on-line here.

    http://openlibrary.org/search?author_key=OL2066993A&subject_facet=Accessible+book


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Mairin1978


    Yes, he wrote that book while he was hiding from the authorities in his parents' house in Co. Down. There was supposed to be a second volume, but he never got around to it. MacNeill was supposed to write an introduction in Bulmer's defense, but once again, the Professor failed to provide adequate support. If I started compiling a list of all the people who wronged Bulmer, it would be a very long list indeed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Mairin1978


    Here's a fairly rare photo of him in Philadelphia with Joe McGarrity, during his 1907 tour. I have another picture of him from that era, but that's in his autobiography, and it I couldn't scan it in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Bulmer Hobson got a Civil Service job after independence.

    How did he get this ?

    Sam Maguire joined the Irish Civil Service and it was a disaster, Bulmer stayed with it until 1948.

    As a Civil Servant he would not have been able to get involved in politics.

    Denis McCullough was a piano tuner and moved to Dublin.

    Any connection with McCullough Pigott


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Mairin1978


    CDfm wrote: »
    Bulmer Hobson got a Civil Service job after independence.

    How did he get this ?

    Sam Maguire joined the Irish Civil Service and it was a disaster, Bulmer stayed with it until 1948.

    As a Civil Servant he would not have been able to get involved in politics.

    Denis McCullough was a piano tuner and moved to Dublin.

    Any connection with McCullough Pigott

    Correct, McCullough Pigott indeed evolved from McCullough of Howard Street in Belfast. The original store was blown up by IRA in the early 20s, but then his wife helped him rebuild the store.


  • Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭brennan1979


    The recent TG4 series on the leaders of the 1916 Rising, Seachtar na Casca, featured an episode on Seán MacDiarmada, which contained a lot of information about Bulmer Hobson and included an interview with Marnie Hay.

    The episode is up on the TG4 website and is well worth a look.

    http://live.tg4.ie/main.aspx?level=Faisneis&content=293544716289

    http://live.tg4.ie/main.aspx?level=Faisneis&content=293563219969

    http://live.tg4.ie/main.aspx?level=Faisneis&content=293608233985


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Mairin1978


    The recent TG4 series on the leaders of the 1916 Rising, Seachtar na Casca, featured an episode on Seán MacDiarmada, which contained a lot of information about Bulmer Hobson and included an interview with Marnie Hay.

    The episode is up on the TG4 website and is well worth a look.

    http://live.tg4.ie/main.aspx?level=Faisneis&content=293544716289

    http://live.tg4.ie/main.aspx?level=Faisneis&content=293563219969

    http://live.tg4.ie/main.aspx?level=Faisneis&content=293608233985

    Yes, I saw that one, and it made me quite sad that they chose such a porky fellow to portray Bulmer. And the chap who portrays Dinny is even worse. For Heaven's sake, Bul Hob & Dinny were among the most handsome and charming IRB chaps. In that episode, there was too much ooh-and-aaah over McDermott's alleged physical beauty.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Bulmer was not without his fans including the novelist Brian Moore .
    Patricia Craig tells the wonderfully emblematic story of Brian and Jean independently choosing the place where they both wished to be buried. It is in a tiny graveyard in Connemara where the Quaker and republican Belfastman Bulmer Hobson is buried. According to Craig, Moore's uncle, Eoin MacNeill, a famous Gaelic scholar and president of the Irish Volunteers in 1916 - the man who tried to countermand the Rebellion - had learned of it from Hobson. It seems an appropriate resting place for Moore. It's another Moore plot, the final one, achieved with grace and flair and in companionship with Jean.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/dec/14/featuresreviews.guardianreview5

    Moore had an uneasy relationship with his republican and catholic background
    Going Home By Brian Moore

    The much-loved Irish novelist Brian Moore lived in North America for 50 years. He thought he would never go home. But in his final work, written for `Granta' magazine, he changed his mind
    Robert Winder

    Sunday, 7 February 1999







    A few years ago on holiday in the West of Ireland I came upon a field which faced a small strand and, beyond it, the Atlantic ocean. Ahead of me five cows raised their heads and stared at the intruder. And then behind the cows I saw a few stone crosses, irregular, askew as though they had been thrown there in a game of pitch and toss. This was not a field but a graveyard. I walked among the graves and came to a path which led to the sandy shore below. There, at the edge of this humble burial ground, was a headstone unlike the others, a rectangular slab of white marble laid flat on the ground.
    Bulmer Hobson
    1883-1969
    I stared at this name, the name of a man I had never known, yet familiar to me as a member of my family. I had heard it spoken again and again by my father in our house in Clifton Street in Belfast and by my uncle, Eoin MacNeill, when during school holidays I spent summers in his house in Dublin.
    For my uncle and my father Bulmer Hobson was both a friend, and in some sense a saint. A Quaker, he, like my uncle, devoted much of his life to the cause of Irish independence, becoming in the early years of this century an exemplary patriot whose non-violent beliefs made our tribal animosities seem brutal and mean. That his body lay here in this small Connemara field, facing the ocean, under a simple marker was somehow emblematic of his life.
    Proust says of our past: "It is a labour in vain to try to recapture it: all the efforts of our intellect are useless. The past is hidden somewhere outside its own domain in some material object (in the sensation which that material object will give us) which we never suspected. And it depends on chance whether or not we come upon it before we die."
    I believe now that the "material object" was, for me, that gravestone in Connemara, a part of Ireland which I had never known in my youth. And as I stood staring at Bulmer Hobson's name my past as a child and adolescent in Belfast surged up, vivid and importunate, bringing back a life which ended for ever when I sailed to North Africa on a British troopship in the autumn of 1943.
    There are those who choose to leave home vowing never to return and those who, forced to leave for economic reasons, remain in thrall to a dream of the land they left behind. And then there are those stateless wanderers who, finding the larger world into which they have stumbled vast, varied and exciting, become confused in their loyalties and lose their sense of home.
    I am one of those wanderers. After the wartime years in North Africa and Italy, I worked in Poland for the UN, then emigrated to Canada, where I became a citizen, before moving on to New York and at last to California, where I have spent the greater part of my life.
    And yet in all the years I have lived in North America I have never felt that it is my home. Annually, in pilgrimage, I go back to Paris and the French countryside and to London, the city which first welcomed me as a writer. And if I think of re-emigrating it is to France or England, not to the place where I was born.
    For I know that I cannot go back. Over the years I have made return visits to my native Belfast. But Belfast, its configuration changed by the great air raids of the Blitz, its inner city covered with a carapace of flyovers, its new notoriety as a theatre of violence, armed patrols and hovering helicopters, seems another city, a distant relative to that Belfast which in a graveyard in Connemara filled my mind with a jumbled kaleidoscope of images fond, frightening, surprising and sad.
    - My pet canary is singing in its cage above my father's head as he sits reading the Irish News, in the breakfast room of our house in Belfast.
    - A shrill electric bell summons me to Latin class in the damp hateful corridors of St Malachy's College. I have forgotten the declension and hear the swish of a rattan cane as I hold out my hand for punishment.
    - In Portstewart where we spent our summer holidays I have been all day on the sands, building an elaborate sand sculpture in hopes of winning the Cadbury contest first prize, a box of chocolates.
    - Alexandra Park where, a seven-year-old, I walk beside my sister's pram holding the hand of my nurse, Nellie Ritchie, who at that time I secretly believe to be my real mother.
    - I hear the terrified squeal of a pig dragged out into the yard for butchery on my uncle's farm in Donegal.
    - I stand with my brothers and sisters singing a ludicrous Marian hymn in St Patrick's Church at evening devotions.
    "Oh Virgin pure, oh spotless maid,
    We sinners send our prayers to thee,
    Remind thy Son that he has paid
    The price of our iniquity."
    - I hear martial music, as a regimental band of the British army marches out from the military barracks behind our house. I see the shining brass instruments, the drummers in tiger skin aprons, the regimental mascot, a large horned goat. Behind that imperial panoply long lines of poor recruits are marched through the streets of our native city to board ship for India, a journey from which many will never return.
    - Inattentive and bored I kneel at Mass amid the stench of unwashed bodies in our parish church where 80 per cent of the female parishioners have no money to buy overcoats or hats and instead wear black woollen shawls which cover head and shoulders, marking them as "Shawlies", the poorest of the poor.
    - We, properly dressed in our middle-class school uniforms sitting in a bus, move through the poor streets of Shankill and the Falls, where children without shoes play on the cobbled pavements.
    - The front gates of the Mater Infirmorum Hospital where my father, a surgeon, is medical super-intendent. As he drives out of those gates, a man so poor and desperate that he will court minor bodily injury to be given a bed and food for a few days, steps in front of my father's car.
    - An evening curfew is announced following Orange parades and the clashes which invariably follow them. The curfew, my father says, is less to prevent riots than to stop the looting of shops by both Catholic and Protestant poor.
    - Older now, I sit in silent teenage rebellion as I hear my elders talk complacently of the "Irish Free States" and the differences between the Fianna Fail and Fine Gael parties who compete to govern it. Can't they see that this Catholic theocratic "grocer's republic" is narrow-minded; repressive and no real alternative to the miseries and injustices of Protestant Ulster?
    - Unbeknownst to my parents, I stand on Royal Avenue hawking copies of a broadsheet called The Socialist Appeal, although I have refused to join the Trotskyite party which publishes it. Belfast and my childhood have made me suspicious of faiths, allegiances, certainties. It is time to leave home.
    The kaleidoscope blurs. The images disappear. The past is buried until, in Connemara, the sight of Bulmer Hobson's grave brings back those faces, those scenes, those sounds and smells which now live only in my memory. And in that moment I know that when I die I would like to come home at last to be buried here in this quiet place among the grazing cows.
    WHEN Brian Moore died last month he left behind a body of work that included 20 novels (such as The Lonely Passion of Judith Hearne, The Temptation of Eileen Hughes and The Doctor's Wife ) widely held to be of the first rank. But he also left no formal instruction regarding his burial. Then it emerged that in a memoir written for Ian Jack at Granta magazine he had gone so far as to declare, in a clear and assured final paragraph, that he did in fact desire to be returned home to Ireland.
    That paragraph has an unusual history. I was working at Granta at that time, and in Ian Jack's absence suggested to Brian Moore that he add a few sentences along these lines, since without them his memoir perhaps ended inconclusively. He was happy to do so, and seemed pleased to say what he now was saying. He thanked us for the gentle encouragement and prod. None of us suspected what consequences it would have, but these lines have ensured that Moore will indeed be laid to rest in Ireland, as he wished, instead of North America, his home for 50 years. Editorial fidgets are rarely so far-reaching.


    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/going-home-by-brian-moore-1069174.html



    Some fan letter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Mairin1978


    No doubt, Bulmer was not without fans! It's just that in his lifetime, many of his fans were too afraid to speak out for fear of being frozen out. There is no question that Bulmer was very charismatic and charming. He had excellent public speaking skills and overshadowed Arthur Griffiths during the early days of Sinn Fein. Devoy invited Bulmer and not Griffiths to America. He was a great leader.


  • Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭man1


    Mairin1978 wrote: »
    Yes, I saw that one, and it made me quite sad that they chose such a porky fellow to portray Bulmer. And the chap who portrays Dinny is even worse. For Heaven's sake, Bul Hob & Dinny were among the most handsome and charming IRB chaps. In that episode, there was too much ooh-and-aaah over McDermott's alleged physical beauty.

    Yeah I agree with you there, Here is a comment I posted last year when the series was on:
    Just a few minutes into the sean mac diarmada episode and there is a scene in a bar in belfast where mac diarmada meets bulmer hobson and dennis mccullough for the first time and it has a few mistakes.
    All three were about 21 years old when they met in belfast at the time macdiarmada was working in the bar but in the documentary mccullough looks about fifty years old, hobson appears in his late thirties/early forties and mac diarmada looks in his late twenties.
    Maybe I am just being too picky but did anyone else notice this, surely the researchers would have known this or were they just hoping no-one would notice or even worse did they not know???
    There are a huge amount of inaccuracies concerning bulmer hobson throughout many histories of this period and this is another one. Hobson was one of the architects of the new found nationalism at that time so surely he deserves more. How would you feel if in the documentary connolly was show as an 18 year old or pearse as a 70 year old??
    I know their perceived age in the programme is not really that relevent but it just annoys me that they could make such a mistake. Ok rant over.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭man1


    Here is a photo of Bulmer I scanned from his book, its from 1952.


  • Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭man1


    Heres another photo of him with the fianna boys that my great grandfather left me.
    He is standing behind Paddy Holohan with his right hand on his shoulder.

    My great grandfather Eamon Martin is also in it. He is on the right hand side of the photo on the same row as markievicz, he is wearing a tie.

    Hey does anyone know how to embed a photo properly on here?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Mairin1978


    man1 wrote: »
    Here is a photo of Bulmer I scanned from his book, its from 1952.

    I have that book too! That's the one from "Ireland Yesterday and Today". He looks like Yeats on this one. Actually had nice hair his whole life.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Mairin1978


    man1 wrote: »
    Heres another photo of him with the fianna boys that my great grandfather left me.
    He is standing behind Paddy Holohan with his right hand on his shoulder.

    My great grandfather Eamon Martin is also in it. He is on the right hand side of the photo on the same row as markievicz, he is wearing a tie.

    Hey does anyone know how to embed a photo properly on here?

    That's the photo that always requires examining with a magnifying glass, because everyone's faces are so small. Hobson always has that menacing pout on his face, and the forelock over his forehead. It says in some accounts that he wore his hair long. I wonder what they meant by it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Mairin1978


    man1 wrote: »
    Yeah I agree with you there, Here is a comment I posted last year when the series was on:
    Just a few minutes into the sean mac diarmada episode and there is a scene in a bar in belfast where mac diarmada meets bulmer hobson and dennis mccullough for the first time and it has a few mistakes.
    All three were about 21 years old when they met in belfast at the time macdiarmada was working in the bar but in the documentary mccullough looks about fifty years old, hobson appears in his late thirties/early forties and mac diarmada looks in his late twenties.

    What they did to Bulmer in that otherwise wonderful programme is a disgrace. Bulmer was youthful, slender, charming and ethereal, the "storm-petrel" as his Belfast friends called him. Instead, he looks like an insurance salesman. I guess, they purposely chose older, less attractive actors to focus on MacDiarmada's alleged beauty. And Dinny McCullough! Dinny looked like a film star in his 20s. He was tall, pale, with dark hair and a harsh masculine profile. Not to mention, he was also talented and musical.

    The perceived age is very relevant, because the way you reason at 20 is very different from the way you reason at 40.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1 Evally


    Man1

    I would appreciate if you would email me in relation to your great grandfather Eamon Martin, bomahony991@gmail.com


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