Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Alarm monitoring over UPC

  • 23-02-2011 8:08pm
    #1
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Here is one thats coming up a lot on the Home Security Forum.
    Is there any good reason why Eircom are telling people people alarms can not be monitored by UPC if they switch their phone provider?
    :confused:


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Here is one thats coming up a lot on the Home Security Forum.
    Is there any good reason why Eircom are telling people people alarms can not be monitored by UPC if they switch their phone provider?
    :confused:

    Hi Koolkid
    The origin of this information may be that PhoneWatch is delivered across analogue lines and not, as of yet, across digital service. It is possible with the addition of a GMS unit to deliver Phonewatch across the majority of providers digital services.
    Hope this answers your question.
    Tony


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Hi Tony,
    All alarm dialers are basically an analogue phone. The line out that UPC gives connects to a standard analogue phone.So all alarm dialers will connect without any problem to a UPC line. To my knowledge there are no plans to change this system from any manufacturers .
    GSM Units are no longer considered secure by most monitoring stations,and most installers, with the easy availability of GSM jammers.
    Can you tell me why Eircom recommend these and yet refuse connection to UPCs line?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Hi Tony,
    All alarm dialers are basically an analogue phone. The line out that UPC gives connects to a standard analogue phone.So all alarm dialers will connect without any problem to a UPC line. To my knowledge there are no plans to change this system from any manufacturers .
    GSM Units are no longer considered secure by most monitoring stations,and most installers, with the easy availability of GSM jammers.
    Can you tell me why Eircom recommend these and yet refuse connection to UPCs line?

    Hi Koolkid
    not sure that eircom recommend these, I can look into that for you. My last post stated that, 'It is possible with the addition of a GMS unit' to deliver analogue Phonewatch across digital services'.
    Obviously anyone wishing to arrange Phonewatch accross either an eircom or non eircom line would be advised to speak with our Phonewatch team who would be able to advise on each individual case.
    Will see if I can get more info for you.
    Tony


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Thanks for that Tony, to clarify my questions here is an example:

    A customer rings PW and says they want to switch their phone service to UPC.
    PW refuse to connect to UPC and offer the GSM alternative.
    My questions here are why are PW refusing to connect to a perfectly good line yet willing to connect a GSM service with known issues?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Thanks for that Tony, to clarify my questions here is an example:

    A customer rings PW and says they want to switch their phone service to UPC.
    PW refuse to connect to UPC and offer the GSM alternative.
    My questions here are why are PW refusing to connect to a perfectly good line yet willing to connect a GSM service with known issues?

    Thanks Koolkid, yep that helps. Will get back to you later today or early Mon.
    Tony


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,324 ✭✭✭✭Cathmandooo


    I'm very interested in this topic too and look forward to eircom's answer on the matter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Thanks for that Tony, to clarify my questions here is an example:

    A customer rings PW and says they want to switch their phone service to UPC.
    PW refuse to connect to UPC and offer the GSM alternative.
    My questions here are why are PW refusing to connect to a perfectly good line yet willing to connect a GSM service with known issues?

    Hi Koolkid
    have confirmed this with the PhoneWatch team, If a customer wished to change over to UPC and wished to keep PhoneWatch service;
    1. customer can keep the eircom line ( along with other provider) and continue with PhoneWatch. Moving to UPC does not exclude the customer.
    2. Customer can drop eircom phoneline and go with the GSM option, which connects to the digital service of other provider.

    If customer disconnects the eircom line and therefore from eircom network, we can no longer deliver our security service on that cancelled line, (even though 'perfectly good'). We cannot offer the package accross the other providers (digital) service.

    To get any more specific info on a particular case or if you wish to discuss this with a member of there technical team you would have to call 1850500900 and take option 1. They would be happy to have someone within their technical team to explain more.
    Tony


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Sorry Tony ,this is just stating Eircoms policy , which I already know, it doesn't answer the question as to WHY?
    Is this a ploy to try get people to keep the Eircom line?

    Questions are still the same?
    Why must people keep the Eircom line when the UPC line will do the same job?
    Why are Eircom refusing to use the UPC line, yet offering a GSM solution which most in the industry agree is unreliable?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Sorry Tony ,this is just stating Eircoms policy , which I already know, it doesn't answer the question as to WHY?
    Is this a ploy to try get people to keep the Eircom line?

    Questions are still the same?
    Why must people keep the Eircom line when the UPC line will do the same job?
    Why are Eircom refusing to use the UPC line, yet offering a GSM solution which most in the industry agree is unreliable?
    Hi Koolkid
    My apologies if last posts did not answer this question and yes I would agree that to an extent that I am stating policy here.
    But this is not an eircom policy to get people to keep the eircom line. It is more to do with the fact that UPC digital service is not compatible with eircom phone watch product, in a manner similar to not being able to get SKY on a UPC box.
    I understand your point that there is a perfecty good digital UPC connection but we cannot deliver our product over that line. This may be something that will change in future but would mean both providers agreeing to adapt a 'protocol' allowing this.
    Although I am sure you may request more info on this I would have to advise that you contact our PhoneWatch section 1800500900 and the UPC team also.
    If you do get more info on this I would be interested in seeing this.
    Tony


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    But this is not an eircom policy to get people to keep the eircom line. It is more to do with the fact that UPC digital service is not compatible with eircom phone watch product, in a manner similar to not being able to get SKY on a UPC box.
    Again , I am sorry Tony but this is not true.
    Eircom PW alarms use a standard digi dialer.
    A standard dialer is basically a standard phone. A standard phone will work with a UPC line & a standard alarm dialer will also ,
    To give another example, I had Eircom previously, I now have UPC . If I plug my Eircom phone into UPC line it will work perfectly.
    If I connect my Alarm to a UPC line it works perfectly


    I understand your point that there is a perfecty good digital UPC connection but we cannot deliver our product over that line.
    Technically there is no difference between one dialer and another. Can you explain why PW believe this wont work.
    This may be something that will change in future but would mean both providers agreeing to adapt a 'protocol' allowing this.
    What protocol would need to be adapted here.???:confused:
    All dialers use the following protocol options
    Fast Format
    Contact ID
    SIA
    SIA extended.
    I have no problem using these over UPC lines.
    I also note no answer as to why Eircom offer GSM as a solution when there are known issues & risks re jamming.
    When offing to provide monitoring over GSM are customers made aware of the risks.
    Many other stations now only accept GSM connections with a signed disclaimer from the customer. Is this Eircoms policy.?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    Eircom install HKC alarms. I have connected a HKC alarm to a monitoring centre through UPC. To say they wont work is wrong.
    We also dont install GSM diallers anymore because they are so easy to disable, infact my monitoring company don't even except them anymore as they are so insecure.

    This stinks of eircom trying to hold onto the lines.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 783 ✭✭✭No1J


    Eircom install HKC alarms. I have connected a HKC alarm to a monitoring centre through UPC. To say they wont work is wrong.
    We also dont install GSM diallers anymore because they are so easy to disable, infact my monitoring company don't even except them anymore as they are so insecure.

    This stinks of eircom trying to hold onto the lines.

    I have an alarm (HKC) installed by a company who also install for PW. When I asked them could I change to UPC but keep the monitoring they said that it could not be done, would have to get the GSM. If this is just a protocol/legal thing.
    1. can it be done and approx how much?

    2. would it affect insurance after a break in?

    Thanks in advance.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The company is simply doing what Eircom tells them to.
    It is not a protocol thing
    It is not a legal thing
    Your insurance states you have a monitored alarm, thats fine, it is immaterial to them who the provider is. As long as the company and the monitoring station are up to the required standards.
    Why they are recommending the GSM s is really baffling me..
    Stations are turning down connections using GSMs yet Eircom are recommending them over a landline??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 783 ✭✭✭No1J


    Thanks for confirming what I am reading between the lines. that being the case are there reg companies that can do this reconnection and could you give an approx price for a 6 year old alarm system.

    Thanks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Again , I am sorry Tony but this is not true.
    Eircom PW alarms use a standard digi dialer.
    A standard dialer is basically a standard phone. A standard phone will work with a UPC line & a standard alarm dialer will also ,
    To give another example, I had Eircom previously, I now have UPC . If I plug my Eircom phone into UPC line it will work perfectly.
    If I connect my Alarm to a UPC line it works perfectly




    Technically there is no difference between one dialer and another. Can you explain why PW believe this wont work.

    What protocol would need to be adapted here.???:confused:
    All dialers use the following protocol options
    Fast Format
    Contact ID
    SIA
    SIA extended.
    I have no problem using these over UPC lines.
    I also note no answer as to why Eircom offer GSM as a solution when there are known issues & risks re jamming.
    When offing to provide monitoring over GSM are customers made aware of the risks.
    Many other stations now only accept GSM connections with a signed disclaimer from the customer. Is this Eircoms policy.?
    HI Koolkid
    I have contacted PhoneWatch 3 times in regards to your query. Three times I have been advised that we cannot deliver this service over other providers digital lines and have passed on the information given me.
    Given your obvious knowledge and interest in this I would have to again suggest that give the PhoneWatch technical or sales staff a call on 1850500900.
    I have spoken to the technical staff there who were only too happy to advise me. As you have much more knowledge on this particular subject I imagine you could extract more relevant information from them.
    If you wish to post your finding here I would be interested in reading them.
    Regards
    Tony


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Equally I , and others have stated it can be done.
    I would ask that Eircom either acknowledge it can be done or else call us liars.
    Are Eircom not willing to state here why they are saying it can't?
    Also no answer as to why they are offering GSM as a solution when there are serious issues re jamming.
    Can we take from this that there is a policy on this forum to refer people to phone numbers if there is something that Eircom don't wish to answer here??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Equally I , and others have stated it can be done.
    I would ask that Eircom either acknowledge it can be done or else call us liars.
    Are Eircom not willing to state here why they are saying it can't?
    Also no answer as to why they are offering GSM as a solution when there are serious issues re jamming.
    Can we take from this that there is a policy on this forum to refer people to phone numbers if there is something that Eircom don't wish to answer here??
    Hi Koolkid
    absolutely not, as is obvious throughout the many questions within this forum and this particular issue. I have answered your questions and stated the reasons why. You have not accepted my responses I therefore offered you the PhoneWatch number as an alternative source of information.
    I also stated that any findings you may have would be welcome on this forum.
    This is an open forum and eircom welcomes any query or question.
    I have again sent this query to phonewatch and I will post this response as soon as I recieve it.
    Tony


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Tony, with due respect, I knew Eircoms policy was not to use UPC and to try get People to use a GSM alternative.
    The questions I asked were why??
    You gave a technically incorrect answer saying that a monitoring service can not be offered over UPC lines It can be.! .You stated its not possible because its a digital service. I and others here have stated that it can be done. Earlier I even gave examples explaining how a dialler is a phone & how any normal phone will work with a UPC line.
    You reject my explanation but still don't offer an explanation. If you are going to suggest I, and others ,are lying at least do us the courtesy of explaining how.
    As of yet you have ignored the question as to why Eircom are offering customers a GSM solution when it is common knowledge in the industry that these can easily be jammed. Could you also answer if Eircom are notifying customers of these issues before selling them that device & service?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Tony, with due respect, I knew Eircoms policy was not to use UPC and to try get People to use a GSM alternative.
    The questions I asked were why??
    You gave a technically incorrect answer saying that a monitoring service can not be offered over UPC lines It can be.! .You stated its not possible because its a digital service. I and others here have stated that it can be done. Earlier I even gave examples explaining how a dialler is a phone & how any normal phone will work with a UPC line.
    You reject my explanation but still don't offer an explanation. If you are going to suggest I, and others ,are lying at least do us the courtesy of explaining how.
    As of yet you have ignored the question as to why Eircom are offering customers a GSM solution when it is common knowledge in the industry that these can easily be jammed. Could you also answer if Eircom are notifying customers of these issues before selling them that device & service?

    Hi Koolkid
    re my last post 'I have again sent this query to phonewatch and I will post this response as soon as I recieve it'.
    However on each of your posts you highlight different topics. This is the reason I suggested it may be best for you to contact the technical staff and was suggested as the most direct way for you to get your query answered.
    I invited you to post any information you might have gathered here if you wished.
    I will add your latest query to my previous query and hope to get a satisfactory reply.
    This may take time and I hope you can bear with me in this instance.
    Regards
    Tony


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Thank you Tony'
    I do appreciate that you are the man in the middle here.
    I am sorry if I am coming across annoying , I have rang PW in the past & I have asked customers to call them also. But the reply remains the same just stating policy & not answering why.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Thank you Tony'
    I do appreciate that you are the man in the middle here.
    I am sorry if I am coming across annoying , I have rang PW in the past & I have asked customers to call them also. But the reply remains the same just stating policy & not answering why.

    I understand completely Koolkid especially if you have not had this issue resolved by PW. Yes am in the middle I am afraid, PhoneWatch is not a product I have ever really been involved with so rely on the information given me by PW tech support.
    As you are asking specific technical and policy questions it just may take me a few days to get the correct info.
    Thanks for bearing with me so far.
    Tony


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Thank you Tony'
    I do appreciate that you are the man in the middle here.
    I am sorry if I am coming across annoying , I have rang PW in the past & I have asked customers to call them also. But the reply remains the same just stating policy & not answering why.

    Hi KoolKid
    This is the response I recieved to your query.
    Current alarm technology does not support signalling over digital (UPC/NTL etc) phonelines so it is not that we refuse to supply the service it is just not possible for us (eircom) to do so. If a customer doesn’t have a landline or is having their landline disconnected we offer the GSM unit as an alternative form of monitoring. GSM monitors over the mobile network and can be used on it’s own or as a backup to existing landline monitoring.
    Although GSM jamming has had some prominence in the media, re burglaries at commercial properties, there has been few reported incidents in residential situations which is our primary market.

    The risk of jamming is low within the residential market. Of the 12k GSM units we have installed we have no evidence to suggest that any jamming has occurred on any of these. If a customer raises any issues with the product we will of course discuss these openly. Certainly we would not recommend that GSM only monitoring be installed on commercial properties where there is high risk.

    I appreciate that it may not be the technical answer you wished for but does explain eircom's position on GMS.

    I have been advised that if you did wish to speak with PhoneWatch they would be happy to try and answer further queries.
    I hope it does answer at least part of your question.
    Regards
    Tony


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Hi KoolKid
    This is the response I recieved to your query.
    Current alarm technology does not support signalling over digital (UPC/NTL etc) phonelines.
    Quite simply that's untrue.!!!!!
    Anyone who wants to argue is invited to look at my system.
    I challange Eircom to explain why they feel this is not technically possible.
    Failure to answer this gives the impression that Eircom are simply trying to force people to keep their line's ..
    As for GSMs, why are other stations refusing connections if the risk is minimal?
    Do Eircom explain the risks to the customer?
    After all it should be their decision?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,817 ✭✭✭✭altor


    It is untrue as I have tested there wire free systems with UPC, works no problem.

    P.W. will have to get there finger out and employ a better solution than the GSM they are selling.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    I don't blame Tony here, he is just the man in the middle & he is doing a great job trying to get the answers. It would seem he is being lied to as well.
    So my questions still remain unanswered..:mad:

    1> Is there any good reason why Eircom are telling people people alarms can not be monitored by UPC if they switch their phone provider, when clearly they can be.?
    2>Why are Eircom offering a GSM dialler as a solution where there are well known issues re jamming?
    3> Are Eircom making customers aware of the availability of GSM jammers & the possible consequences ?

    In the face of no logical answers forthcoming, my own personal beliefs are this

    1> People are told this in an attempt by Eircom to hold onto the customer for land line service & line rental rental.
    2> Eircom have a large stock of GSM diallers , which need to be shifted before they become totally obsolete or they have no viable alternative to offer the customer re monitoring.
    3> I would believe not for the reasons mentioned in 1 & 2 above.





  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    6 days later and not further input from Eircom.:(
    I would still like these issues addressed, please.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    10 days later & no further input from Eircom.
    Can a representative from Eircom please state the position on this.
    Is this issue still being addressed or is it the policy on this forum for Eircom to simply post up lies then ignore the questions posted. Is this Eircoms out when they don't wan't to answer questions put to them??:mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭donutheadhomer


    KoolKid wrote: »
    6 days later and not further input from Eircom.:(
    I would still like these issues addressed, please.

    koolkid

    I have a hkc alarm with eircom line that sends me texts on events. I've not got PW. Would this still work if I move to UPC? Also will UPC connect it up for me as part of their install process or do i need the alarm guys who installed it. only installed a year so new hkc system


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,817 ✭✭✭✭altor


    UPC will only do voice with the HKC, not text.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭donutheadhomer


    altor wrote: »
    UPC will only do voice with the HKC, not text.

    so in this case I will need a gms dialer for the hkc. any idea how much this would cost and is it possible to do myself?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    As Altor said UPC doesn't support text. UPC does however support alarm monitoring.
    Yet Eircom continue to deny this.
    There are also issues with GSM dialers that Eircom don't seem to tell their customers about.
    I am still awaiting Eircoms answers ..........


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭donutheadhomer


    KoolKid wrote: »
    As Alford said UPC doesn't support text. UPC does however support alarm monitoring.
    Yet Eircom continue to deny this.
    There are also issues with GSM dialers that Eircom don't seem to tell their customers about.
    I am still awaiting Eircoms answers ..........

    if i can't get text over the line then no point m e moving to upc then. thanks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    KoolKid wrote: »
    10 days later & no further input from Eircom.
    Can a representative from Eircom please state the position on this.
    Is this issue still being addressed or is it the policy on this forum for Eircom to simply post up lies then ignore the questions posted. Is this Eircoms out when they don't wan't to answer questions put to them??:mad:

    Hi Koolkid
    apologies for not replying to your latest posts as my own last post was the official explanation given by PhoneWatch and was in answer to your query at the time.
    Although I do accept that you are not satisfied with the answer it does state PhoneWatch's stance re both queries.
    Our policy here is to try and answer any query raised on this forum and offer any help we can. I have made various enquiries and have passed on the information available to me. At this time though I am afraid I have no further information, other than that already given, on this subject.
    Tony


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    So Tony do you accept that phonewatch's statement re connecting via UPC is a lie?
    If not then you need to stand up and say myself and Altor are lying.
    Which is it?
    I have also not noticed when you answered if Eircom inform customers of the risks associated with GSM dialers?
    I am sorry ,but I find it unacceptable that Eircom answer queries with a lie and then come on and dismiss a thread saying no further information is available .....
    Stating policy and posting lies answers nothing.
    My questions still remain unanswered ...
    Maybe I'll try again in another 10 days ..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    Koolkid, you're not going to get the answers you're looking for here. The simple reason is that eircom know the truth (as we do) so they will not state it publicly.

    The truth is that eircom systems do work over UPC, I know this myself as I have connected them myself. They purposely confuse the issue by saying things like "our systems aren't compatible with UPCs digital system" which we all know is bull.
    Eircom put out that lie in order to keep
    the line rentals. THERE IS NO OTHER REASON.

    We also know that gsm monitoring is not secure, that's a fact not an opinion yet eircom are still offering this to their customers without explaining the risks.
    I don't think we'll get any definitive answer with this as no matter what they say they will be wrong. If they say there's no problem with them then they're telling lies and if they say there is a security risk then why are they selling them with any prior warning on their security issues.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Thanks Fred, I think you may be right.
    If thats the case then is it their policy on this forum to post lies & then choose not to answer the questions they don't like??
    I think that is also a big concen here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Thanks Fred, I think you may be right.
    If thats the case then is it their policy on this forum to post lies & then choose not to answer the questions they don't like??
    I think that is also a big concen here.

    Hi koolkid

    myself and the other moderators on this forum will always attempt to answer any relevant questions posted us, or direct the poster to the relevant eircom section, that is our policy.
    However I have already provided my answer based on the information made available to us here and would only be repeating the same. As an open forum, where people are free to post their questions and opinions, I certainly have no intention of lablling anyone as a liar.

    As I have suggested in a previous post PhoneWatch have advised me that if you wish to discuss this with their technical staff ( as you do have a lot of technical experience with this particular product and it's installation) to call them on 1850500900 and post us about this.

    Again my apologies if this response does not satisfy you but you will have to speak to the appropriate technical section for more information.
    Regards
    Tony


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    I have no problem stating the obvious.
    The statement that Alarms cannot be monitored over UPC lines is a lie.
    It is also obvious Eircon are not willing to answer questions here.
    Why Eircom lie to customers re this issue has not been answered.
    I don't consider a lie or simply stating policy an answer.
    Why Eircom are offering GSM as a solution when there are known issues has never been answered.
    Whether Eircom inform customers of the specific risks with GSM diallers has never been answered.
    I,and customers of mine,(former Eircom customers) have contacted PW with these questions. Like here,they will not answer them.
    So out of my 3 questions one has been answered with a lie and the other 2 have been ignored. Based on that I would again state Eircom are selecting what they choose to answer here. I suspect the next move will be to lock this thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭bobblepuzzle


    This is Eircom, what do you expect? They've been ripping off consumers for decades... indeed a lock is probably in order as Eircom won't give an answer here


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    8 Days on & still Eircom are refusing to answer questions posted on this forum.:eek::(

    As a reminder my questions are:

    Why is Eircom lying to customers (and to members here) saying their alarms can not be monitored over a UPC line?
    Why are Eircom offering GSM as an alternative when they know there are issues re jamming?
    Are Eircom informing customers of the risks & vulnerabilities with GSM monitoring?

    Yours patiently
    KK:cool:


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    Koolkid seems to me like your trying to get a rise out of the mods of eircom here,looks like they have tried to offer you advice on what they know but you know a lot more then them so why dont you just call the technical staff for phone watch and ask someone who has an in dept knowledge on your subject,asking questions like"why do eircom lie to customers" isnt really a question for this fourm and isnt helping anyone.

    LT


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    As I said above I and others have called PW and got the same lies.
    In fairness I asked 3 questions. 1 was answered with a lie.
    The other 2 have just been ignored.
    If that's the case then it would seem the policy on this forum is for Eircom to ignore the questions they don't wish to answer.
    I am not trying to rise the Eircom staff here at all.
    They are doing a great job,but they are obviously been lied to as well.
    It would also seem there are restrictions to what they can discuss here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    ok but how do you know they are lying?
    These have to be people who work in a feild that they are very good at and as everyone knows majority of companies record their calls so any lying they would be doing would be recorded and thus taken up by the regulater and then the company would be fined so i dont think eircom really want a massive fine at the moment so i would assume lying would be at a minimum.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Myself and other installers here have alarms monitored over UPC lines.
    Who is to monitor lies?
    The lies seem to be Eircoms policy on this..
    The custom service reps and tech support reps are clearly just saying what they are told to. As I have already explained, an alarm dialler is simply the guts of a normal phone.
    If a standard phone connects and can make a call so can an alarm dialler ..
    Its that simple.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    well fair enough if thats what you feel is the problem then take it higher than a boards website,nothing will happen here for you,thats all i was saying anyway,complaining about it to mods on a forum isnt going to get your problem solved and the clearly dont have the answers you want as you have asked and they have said:rolleyes:

    LT


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Eircom refuse to answer the questions. I have contacted them , others have contacted them. Whay are you saying I am complaining to mods??
    The Mods on this forum are:
    Darragh, and Dav
    They have not commented on this thread & I have not contacted them.
    I have asked questions of the Eircom reps here that is what they are here to do.
    Again I stress I am not complaining to them I am complaining to Eircom.
    As I have said I have no greivence with Mark & Tony whatsoever , they do a great job.
    But it seems it is Eircom policy to lie to customers re using UPC lines.
    I am not asking unreasonable questions.
    The first question is simply asking why Eircom are doing this.
    The second question
    Why are Eircom offering GSM as an alternative when they know there are issues re jamming?
    Has never been answered.
    The 3rd question
    Are Eircom informing customers of the risks & vulnerabilities with GSM monitoring?
    Is a simple yes or no answer yet this has never been answered
    After all according to the charter Eircom say
    We are also here to communicate in a transparent and open manner .


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Another week passes and still it seems Eircom are being selective in what they want to discuss & answer here.
    Maybe they should also take a look in the Home Security Forum.
    Here is one example of more customers being lied to
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056226316
    Still the same questions remain unanswered...:confused:
    I am not asking unreasonable questions.
    The first question is simply asking why Eircom are doing this.
    The second question
    Why are Eircom offering GSM as an alternative when they know there are issues re jamming?
    Has never been answered.
    The 3rd question
    Are Eircom informing customers of the risks & vulnerabilities with GSM monitoring?
    Is a simple yes or no answer yet this has never been answered

    And yet Eircom are happy to say
    We are also here to communicate in a transparent and open manner .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    we had an eircom rept call around twice and one of the questions i asked was about their gsm units being jammed.their response was.....if anyone interferes with with the alarm. the monitoring station will know about it instantly. i also asked what would happen if an intruder came in and smashed the panel...his reply was the exactly the same!!!the monitoring station would know straight away. what was even funnier was the fact that i was up a ladder wiring up a Hkc bell box and he still insisted on ringing the doorbell ,when know one answered he called up to me asking if we wanted an eircom phone watch alarm. when i made it even clearer i was putting one in he still insisted on getting phone watch and that he will call back around when the parents were home..he called back that evening ...i brought him in showed him the very newly installed alarm and ask him what was wrong with it that he still had to insist on having it replaced...i payed 500 to alarm every door and window plus 2 beams. they were offering 6 sensors 3 shock/reeds and 3 beams, we have 2 doors and 11 windows, he told us that we would only need the bck door frt door and 1 bay window covered. he was then shown the door


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    It would appear the sales reps are trained the same as customer service. Just keep repeating yourself but whatever you do dont answer the question.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    I thought it was pretty obvious why alarm monitoring over UPC can't work. Suprised it hasn't been mentioned yet!

    The biggest reason is a power outage. Those eircom phonewatch units are supposed to work if some intruder cuts power or there is a coincidental blackout etc. Eircom phonelines generally work after the power goes in an area even if the exchange area is affected. The exchange will have at least battery backup and often diesel generators too. I understand most conventional mobile phone masts and sites have on-site generation/batteries but this wouldn't be as consistent as the eircom backup.

    Now, if the power goes out for the UPC customer, they're fecked. Unless the cable modem is wired to a car battery or somesuch. And if there is a blackout, even in the immediate area only, the cable node will probably be taken out too as I don't believe UPC have any backup power for their field network.

    As for the GSM units being jammed, the thief would have to use that and also ensure that any phone line is cut too. A GSM jammer would take quite a bit of power to deploy and would probably be complicated as a result. It would take more than a dodgy spark plug, I'll put it that way:) Now, this extra effort and hassle to pull off the jamming would not make as much sense compared to targeting somewhere easier.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement