Branded Vs. Generic tyres?

Nissan doctor · 09-02-2011 4:49pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

That's exactly it. I've had cheap tyres on a car that I bought, changed soon afterwards, but I know how bad they can be. Also the legal limit of 1.6mm is a pure joke. Only performance tyres I reckon would still be any good at that limit. I don't think I've ever gone below 2mm on mine, even good tyres, while still fairly grippy at that, still can't give that extra bit in an emergency situation.
They only have to do their job once in order to justify the small price increase.

1.6mm is the legal limit, 3.0mm is the recognised(in the rest of europe anyway) safety limit. Once a tyre goes below 3.0mm it has lost 80% of its extreme condition performance.

paddydriver · 09-02-2011 4:52pm

bladebrew wrote: »

is that €380 per tyre:eek:, on a s-max? did i read that right, a guy my dad plays golf with mentioned getting a tyre for an m6 afaik that was €330,

Yes, that was the dealer price though... so heavily marked up. Average price to replace the existing Michelin Primacy HP's are €280ish. Going to NI etc does not save a whole lot.

Gallus · 09-02-2011 7:50pm

Nissan doctor wrote: »

There are European laws regarding tyres and spec which there is no government or independent body in Ireland which implements them. The vast majority of the cheapest of the cheap Chinese tyres are being imported into Ireland have only had an 'e' mark added to their mold, they have not been euro tested or approved but because the majority of Irish motorists are not interested in correct car maintenance they are a big seller.

It is also illegal to have a tyre of a lower speed rating then the manufacturer specified(speed rating isn't just about how fast your car can go), its illegal to have different brand/spec of tyres on the same axle, as is having tyres that are over 5 years old on your car. But again, these European laws are simply not policed here and the Irish tyre journal recons that a huge % of the crashes in Ireland that are put down to speed etc would still have been avoided if the car had safe/legal/quality tyres fitted.

Its only in emergency situations where you need your tyres to perform their best, and its exactly then that a cheap untested tyre will not perform.

one thing its not illegal to have two different brands on the same axle. As long as the spec matches its grand.

Nissan doctor · 09-02-2011 8:00pm

Gallus wrote: »

one thing its not illegal to have two different brands on the same axle. As long as the spec matches its grand.

It is according to European law. Like I said its not enforced here, by the garda or the NCTS or any government body.

It doesn't matter if both tyres are, for example, 205/55/16 V rated. If they are from different brands, they will have different thread compounds, different wear rating and different thread pattern amongst other differences and so will have different grip and road holding characteristics, leading to reduced handling and braking stability. This is even true of different tyre models from the same company.

Gallus · 09-02-2011 8:17pm

Never seen that law before. Known to keep mismathes away from driven wheels, but that seems a bit extreme. How do they account for part worns on one corner and a fresh tyre on the other.

Technoprisoner · 09-02-2011 8:25pm

if you had a cheap budget tyre and a good branded tyre side by side you could tell the difference straight away....the cheaper tyres tend to be made of a sort of harder plastic like rubber....and a good quality tyre feels like proper sticky rubber..you can see why the cheaper tyres last forever but try take a corner at speed or make a high speed maneuver to avoid a situation and you will defantely prefare to have the better quality tyre on the car

T-Maxx · 09-02-2011 8:26pm

For my everyday runabout I buy cheap. Hell, putting along in 2nd or 3rd gear doesn't justify anything expensive. €45 each, balanced and fitted.:cool:

Technoprisoner · 09-02-2011 8:28pm

T-Maxx wrote: »

For my everyday runabout I buy cheap. Hell, putting along in 2nd or 3rd gear doesn't justify anything expensive. €45 each, balanced and fitted.:cool:

not even on a runabout...i would rather buy some part worn branaded tyres if i was that stuck for money..seriously...2 things you do not skimp on and its tyres and brakes...these are the 2 things that can save your life or somebody elses

-Corkie- · 09-02-2011 8:37pm

I know I will get blasted for this but we have 2 passats. I put Vredstrein sessnatas on my wifes one as the tyres that came with it were sunnys and triangle.

The Vredstreins were 130 a pop while the sunnys were 65 euro each. Here is the part I cannot figure out. Both brands have done the same mileage and I have more rubber left on my cheap tyres.

I know people here say they are useless at handling and all that but I found no difference only double the price..

Eoin · 09-02-2011 8:42pm

-Corkie- wrote: »

Both brands have done the same mileage and I have more rubber left on my cheap tyres.

Could that not just mean that the compound on the cheap tyres is too hard and maybe not wearing enough?

Technoprisoner · 09-02-2011 8:44pm

-Corkie- wrote: »

I know I will get blasted for this but we have 2 passats. I put Vredstrein sessnatas on my wifes one as the tyres that came with it were sunnys and triangle.

The Vredstreins were 130 a pop while the sunnys were 65 euro each. Here is the part I cannot figure out. Both brands have done the same mileage and I have more rubber left on my cheap tyres.

I know people here say they are useless at handling and all that but I found no difference only double the price..

the reason they last longer is as i said above...they are made out of a harder rubber which is more like a hard plastic...if you had the 2 tyres side by side when they are new you would understand why...as for performance you would only every really notice the difference when it is vital...when a small child steps out in front of your car or when you have to make an emergency stop or turn suddenly to avoid an accident

-Corkie- · 09-02-2011 8:53pm

Technoprisoner wrote: »

the reason they last longer is as i said above...they are made out of a harder rubber which is more like a hard plastic...if you had the 2 tyres side by side when they are new you would understand why...as for performance you would only every really notice the difference when it is vital...when a small child steps out in front of your car or when you have to make an emergency stop or turn suddenly to avoid an accident

Thats correct I read that before. Now I would prefer to have the Vredstreins but the price difference is mad!!!

Nissan doctor · 09-02-2011 8:57pm

Gallus wrote: »

Never seen that law before. Known to keep mismathes away from driven wheels, but that seems a bit extreme. How do they account for part worns on one corner and a fresh tyre on the other.

The difference between a part worn(still over 3.0mm) tyre and a new tyre of the same brand and model is minimal as they both have the same compound, thread design and wear rating.

With regards to tyres wearing more quickly then others. This is largely effected by wheel alignment and tyre pressures but also the tested thread wear rating of the tyre, this is shown on the sidewall of the tyre(eu tested and approved tyres) A typical example would be a Bridgestone er300 tyre which has thread wear rating of 300 whereas a Bridgestone Potenza s001 has a rating of 150 which means it will wear twice as fast as the er300.

Technoprisoner · 09-02-2011 8:58pm

-Corkie- wrote: »

Thats correct I read that before. Now I would prefer to have the Vredstreins but the price difference is mad!!!

have you tried buying your tyres from www.camskill.co.uk ? they are very cheap and for 4 tyres delivered to dublin only cost £25 from what i can remember

Fizman · 09-02-2011 10:29pm

I went ahead and ordered two Falkens FK452s from Camskill last night. €172 delivered for 2 x 225/40/18. Not too bad at all. Hoping to have them by Friday.

For anyone interested in tyres with excellent rim protectors (large lip around the rim to protect alloys), the Bridgestone Potenzas are great. Makes a difference if kerbing has been an issue for you.

zilog_jones · 09-02-2011 11:47pm

Nissan doctor wrote: »

There are European laws regarding tyres and spec which there is no government or independent body in Ireland which implements them. The vast majority of the cheapest of the cheap Chinese tyres are being imported into Ireland have only had an 'e' mark added to their mold, they have not been euro tested or approved but because the majority of Irish motorists are not interested in correct car maintenance they are a big seller.

I'd be very surprised if these big far eastern companies were illegally stamping E-marks on their tyres, they wouldn't get away with it. The E-mark requires type approval from an authority in an ECE regulation member state (which actually includes several countries not in the ECE, i.e. it's not really a European thing any more). It's not like the CE mark, which can be "self-approved" and has therefore become pretty meaningless (any junk has a CE mark these days).

The problem is ECE R30 only really tests high speed performance and tyre dimensions, not any sort of general performance or braking performance. So as others have noted, they can use crappy hard compounds that will last at the speeds they're rated for, make the tyres in the shape they claim to be, get E-mark approval and not care too much about grip characteristics under normal driving or in emergency situations.

Some info here: http://www.toyo.com.au/TechInfoPDFs/TTT-189%20Tire%20Standards%20Test%20Method.pdf
Boring stuff (the actual regulations): http://www.etrma.org/public/activitiestyregun.asp

Tea 1000 · 10-02-2011 11:09am

-Corkie- wrote: »

I know I will get blasted for this but we have 2 passats. I put Vredstrein sessnatas on my wifes one as the tyres that came with it were sunnys and triangle.

The Vredstreins were 130 a pop while the sunnys were 65 euro each. Here is the part I cannot figure out. Both brands have done the same mileage and I have more rubber left on my cheap tyres.

I know people here say they are useless at handling and all that but I found no difference only double the price..

The Passat isn't a great car for providing feedback at the best of times, so normal driving mightn't reveal much, unless you have a bit more than average sensory awareness in terms of "listening" to the car.
However when pushed in any way the absolute muck Sunny's and even worse Triangles will leave you with a gaping look on your face at the difference!
Also, if you have 16" rims then you were ripped off for the Verdesteins!

10-02-2011 11:52am

Tea 1000 wrote: »

However when pushed in any way the absolute muck Sunny's and even worse Triangles will leave you with a gaping look on your face at the difference!
Also, if you have 16" rims then you were ripped off for the Verdesteins!

In fairness I would reckon he has defo driven enthusiastically on them.

-Corkie- · 10-02-2011 1:03pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The Passat isn't a great car for providing feedback at the best of times, so normal driving mightn't reveal much, unless you have a bit more than average sensory awareness in terms of "listening" to the car.
However when pushed in any way the absolute muck Sunny's and even worse Triangles will leave you with a gaping look on your face at the difference!
Also, if you have 16" rims then you were ripped off for the Verdesteins!

No they are 17``. I got them of camskills. That included getting them on and all.

cpoh1 · 10-02-2011 1:11pm

Fizman wrote: »

I went ahead and ordered two Falkens FK452s from Camskill last night. €172 delivered for 2 x 225/40/18. Not too bad at all. Hoping to have them by Friday.

For anyone interested in tyres with excellent rim protectors (large lip around the rim to protect alloys), the Bridgestone Potenzas are great. Makes a difference if kerbing has been an issue for you.

Falken fk452 are a decent eeryday tyre, im on my second set on the DC5. They last much longer than any of the potenzas ive had as well as the good years and sessantas. Not as grippy mind you but you wont notice on the road in everyday driving.

BostonB · 10-02-2011 4:37pm

Richard571 wrote: »

... is there much difference between 'branded' tyres like Pirelli, Continental etc and non-branded (or 'economy'tyes)...

Last time I need tyres for our 2nd car, I could only find cheap unknown tyres in stock, Roadstar (I think). I didn't think they would be that bad, but they were. They were like driving on ice. Changed them to Khumo and its like a different car. The difference was massive.

Curiously enough a few people have borrowed that car and none of them noticed how poor the grip was on the old tires. Or the difference in the new ones. Its night and day to me.

Fey! · 10-02-2011 4:54pm

BostonB wrote: »

Last time I need tyres for our 2nd car, I could only find cheap unknown tyres in stock, Roadstar (I think). I didn't think.....

Any chance that they were Roadstones? I've had them, and they were pure muck, with damn all grip (they were on my first Surf when I bought it, and were fairly new).

My tyre guy had them recently. When I asked them about them, he said he got them in for someone who wanted them, but wouldn't stock them. He told the customer this, but the customer was insistent.

BostonB · 10-02-2011 4:57pm

You're right. Roadstone Classe. Like socks on lino.

Kersh · 10-02-2011 5:21pm

Back in Novemeber I ran a test day with Toyota and Goodyear/Dunlop at work. We had 2 Avensis, one with the newest Goodyear Efficientgrip tyres, and the other had Savas or something similar (cant remember now), and the difference was astonishing. The good tyres always gave some grip, and I mean always , during high speed cornering, and the cheap brand just understeered. This was through high speed and slow speed corners, but pushing the car on if you know what I mean.

And I would have been always one to lean to cheaper tyres on my past purchases, my thinking always has been that I race cars, so I dont bother driving like a loon on the road to even approach a tyres maximum griplevel no matter what the brand. But in an emergency its all ya got!

But that test was a real eye opener. Other lads working that day did skid stop tests and wet skid pan work, and we were all really surprised at the difference in grip levels.

Tea 1000 · 10-02-2011 5:41pm

BostonB wrote: »

Curiously enough a few people have borrowed that car and none of them noticed how poor the grip was on the old tires. Or the difference in the new ones. Its night and day to me.

Most people really don't have a clue. Not a notion. These would be the same people who claim "sure there's no difference!"

-Corkie- · 10-02-2011 5:44pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Most people really don't have a clue. Not a notion. These would be the same people who claim "sure there's no difference!"

OH...:o:o

Tea 1000 · 10-02-2011 5:53pm

-Corkie- wrote: »

OH...:o:o

Wasn't aimed at you at all...

GTE · 10-02-2011 6:02pm

-Corkie- wrote: »

I know I will get blasted for this but we have 2 passats. I put Vredstrein sessnatas on my wifes one as the tyres that came with it were sunnys and triangle.

The Vredstreins were 130 a pop while the sunnys were 65 euro each. Here is the part I cannot figure out. Both brands have done the same mileage and I have more rubber left on my cheap tyres.

I know people here say they are useless at handling and all that but I found no difference only double the price..

To me that says the Sunny Delights (:p) are a harder rubber to give longer life but sacrificing grip. The Vreds are probably the grippier tyre between the two.

EDIT:

A family members car had Dunlop something or others on her car. Against my advice two cheapo Event tyres were put on to replace two of the Dunlops. The Events got moved to the front to make way for new Hankooks on the rear. The front of the car will spin up in the damp like no other. I was amazed at the difference between the old Dunlops and the newish Events.

T-Maxx · 10-02-2011 6:27pm

You would really need to be a professional racing driver to notice the difference between tire brands - the bulk of motorists will never notice any difference. To buy top quality high performance branded rubber (for when a child just might run out in front of you:rolleyes:) is false security and extreme insurance.

Tea 1000 · 10-02-2011 6:46pm

T-Maxx wrote: »

You would really need to be a professional racing driver to notice the difference between tire brands - the bulk of motorists will never notice any difference. To buy top quality high performance branded rubber (for when a child just might run out in front of you:rolleyes:) is false security and extreme insurance.

Absolute rubbish.
You either have grip, or you don't. What kind of tyres do you have and what kind of car?

Branded Vs. Generic tyres?

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