Part of the recent 30KPH inner city speed limit to be scrapped.

Run_to_da_hills · 07-02-2011 6:40pm #1

"A section of the controversial 30kph zone in Dublin city centre is to be increased to 50kph, draft proposals produced by Dublin City Council show.

The remainder between Grattan Bridge and Butt Bridge is to be kept in place".

Not that its introduction made that much of a difference anyway.:p

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/30kph-speed-limit-to-be-scrapped-in-part-of-city-centre-2528404.html

Mucco · 07-02-2011 7:15pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

"A section of the controversial 30kph zone in Dublin city centre is to be increased to 50kph, draft proposals produced by Dublin City Council show.

The remainder between Grattan Bridge and Butt Bridge is to be kept in place".

Not that its introduction made that much of a difference anyway.:p

I'm wondering two things:
1) What changes in driving/roads have taken place to persuade those that voted for the 30kph limit to now want to abandon it?

2) On what basis is it being kept on some roads and not others?

Run_to_da_hills · 07-02-2011 7:34pm

Mucco wrote: »

I'm wondering two things:
1) What changes in driving/roads have taken place to persuade those that voted for the 30kph limit to now want to abandon it?

Obviously the general election coming up.

The business community were never happy with this from the beginning.

The only ones that seemed to want it were the cycling group.

Mucco wrote: »

2) On what basis is it being kept on some roads and not others?

Some areas had more pedestrians walking out in front of traffic..

stoneill · 07-02-2011 8:19pm

The slower speed limit seemed to make sense during the day with a lot more pedestrians about and for relieving traffic congestion on the streets.
I could never understand why the restriction were there 24hrs.

Holybejaysus · 07-02-2011 8:33pm

An insane, ludicrous, half baked decision to begin with.

IIRC, the Greens were the main players with this idea? Good riddance to educated idiots.... :rolleyes:

markpb · 07-02-2011 8:38pm

Holybejaysus wrote: »

IIRC, the Greens were the main players with this idea? Good riddance to educated idiots.... :rolleyes:

The Greens have no councillors in DCC - they had nothing to do with it. People would blame them for the weather these days...

Holybejaysus · 07-02-2011 8:42pm

markpb wrote: »

The Greens have no councillors in DCC - they had nothing to do with it. People would blame them for the weather these days...

Oops, my bad.

But I do remember John Gormley defending the system with some sort of eco-nonsense.

And here's Cuffey waxing lyrical about the whole thing.

http://www.ciarancuffe.ie/30kph-speed-limit-evening-herald-3rd-february-2010

Run_to_da_hills · 07-02-2011 10:03pm

markpb wrote: »

The Greens have no councillors in DCC - they had nothing to do with it. People would blame them for the weather these days...

The Greens controll the weather, well thats what they like everyone to believe.

The Greens were behind the Dublin Bikes scheme which in turn were pushing the council for the reduction in speed limits when the question of liability for accidents came about from what I heard.

AngryLips · 07-02-2011 11:41pm

Well it worked; the number of people cycling is the highest it's ever been

Run_to_da_hills · 08-02-2011 4:19am

AngryLips wrote: »

Well it worked; the number of people cycling is the highest it's ever been

The increase in bicycles could also be attributed to soaring collage fees along with less disposible income where students would save considerable on transport costs by cycling.

ollaetta · 08-02-2011 10:07am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The Greens were behind the Dublin Bikes scheme which in turn were pushing the council for the reduction in speed limits when the question of liability for accidents came about from what I heard.

Not the Greens this time, it was actually this guy: http://www.andrewmontague.com

NuMarvel · 08-02-2011 2:47pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Obviously the general election coming up.

The business community were never happy with this from the beginning.

The only ones that seemed to want it were the cycling group.

Some areas had more pedestrians walking out in front of traffic..

This was decided by the City Council last year, so the General Election has nothing to do with the timing. As per the Irish Times article linked above:

However, the change is unlikely to come into effect until next year as it will require the introduction of new speed-limit bylaws. The introduction or change to a bylaw involves a drafting process, public consultation and several stages of ratification by councillors. It is likely that the higher speed limits will not be in place until next January or February at the earliest.

In any case, I'd be surprised if the city centre speed limit was coming up as an election issue, given everything else that's going on in the country.

Bazzer2 · 08-02-2011 2:55pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Some areas had more pedestrians walking out in front of traffic..

That's what I said would happen in 2009 when the plan was first suggested, and I was shot down for it. :rolleyes:

dowlingm · 08-02-2011 7:24pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Some areas had more pedestrians walking out in front of traffic..

Sounds like a case for a woonerf then.

Victor · 09-02-2011 5:44am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Most of the recent 30KPH inner city speed limit to be scrapped.

Hi Run_to_da_hills,

I'd be grateful if you and others didn't make stuff up.

Yours sincerely

Colm Moore
Dublin Cycling Campaign

PS I'm not a member of any political party.

Cookie_Monster · 09-02-2011 9:28am

how much of it is being scrapped and why is the rest not then?

LXFlyer · 09-02-2011 10:27am

The two linked articles above tell you:

The Irish Times:

Dublin city councillors last night voted to restore the 50km/h limit on Winetavern Street and the city quays west of Grattan Bridge at Capel Street, excluding a small narrow section of Essex Quay up to the pedestrian lights before the Civic Offices.

The Evening Herald:

Only one submission -- from the Dublin Cycling Campaign -- was received on the proposals during the public consultation phase.

The campaign's Colm Moore expressed concern that it was planned to increase speed limits from 30 to 50kph "on a number of side streets" as well.

Mr Moore said he was referring to the section covered by Merchant's Quay, Bridge Street Lower and Upper, High Street, St Michael's Hill and Winetavern Street.

In response, the council amended the draft plans so that the 30kph limit is retained on those streets.

That would suggest that it is being removed from the quays west of Capel Street where it really was totally unnecessary due to the low levels of pedestrian traffic crossing the roads.

As Victor says it certainly is not being scrapped on "most streets".

NuMarvel · 09-02-2011 10:55am

The Evening Herald article doesn't make it clear what streets the lower limit is being removed from though. It says the lower limit is removed from streets west of Grattan Bridge*, but also says that the lower limit is retained on Bridge Street, High Street, Winetavern Street and Merchant's Quay - all streets that are west of Grattan Bridge.

Am I missing something or am I not reading Google Maps properly?

*EDIT: For clarity, the article doesn't specifically state that, but that's the gist I got.

LXFlyer · 09-02-2011 11:02am

As I read it, it is being removed from the Quays west of Capel Street Bridge except for the narrow stretch of Essex Quay from Capel Street bridge as far as where the road widens to allow for the bus lane.

That was where the principal problem lay.

The limit does not apply to Bridge Street - only the side streets east of it.

Here is the zone on a map.

dynamick · 09-02-2011 10:12pm

misleading thread title

actual changes to the 30 kph zone are below:

hang your head in shame again rtdh

I have to admire Andrew Montague for sticking by an unpopular measure that will statistically save lives against the most ignorant of opposition including from his own party leader.
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/at-last-death-knell-for-30kph-as-council-turns-on-mr-slow-montague-2054735.html

L1011 · 09-02-2011 11:18pm

Its still covering far too much area.

DCC could also do with putting some proper signage for the end up, to prevent 75%+ of drivers slowing down to 25km/h on Victoria Quay whenever there's a tailvan outside Guinness

monument · 10-02-2011 2:18am

MYOB wrote: »

Its still covering far too much area.

A lot of people seem to think the exact opposite.

dynamick wrote: »

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/at-last-death-knell-for-30kph-as-council-turns-on-mr-slow-montague-2054735.html

That's from this time last year btw. Disgraceful bit of journalism.

Cookie_Monster · 10-02-2011 1:49pm

monument wrote: »

A lot of people seem to think the exact opposite.

And a lot agree also

Also how are you supposed to watch your speed on a (pedal) bike in those areas, all of which you'll easily get above 30 in?

NuMarvel · 10-02-2011 2:13pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

And a lot agree also

Also how are you supposed to watch your speed on a (pedal) bike in those areas, all of which you'll easily get above 30 in?

Dead easy. Don't overtake any motor vehicles, all of which will be adhering to the speed limit.

Cookie_Monster · 10-02-2011 2:26pm

NuMarvel wrote: »

Dead easy. Don't overtake any motor vehicles, all of which will be adhering to the speed limit.

but you're assuming there's cars around and they're not all just stuck in traffic too

NuMarvel · 10-02-2011 2:55pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but you're assuming there's cars around and they're not all just stuck in traffic too

If the cars are stuck in traffic, then would there be enough space for cyclists to whizz by at more than 30kph? I'm particularly thinking of the quays here.

And if there are no cars, then clearly the speed limit is working

Iwannahurl · 10-02-2011 3:13pm

I admit I had my own knee-jerk reaction to this report. Quietly fuming at the backwardness of it.

However, it seems it's a proposal to reduce the 30 kph area and has yet to be voted on. Some of the headlines are saying it's to be scrapped, which suggests a done deal.

I hope Labour councillors in particular will take a responsible attitude, rather than a pre General Election what-will-work-to-our-advantage attitude.

BostonB · 10-02-2011 3:14pm

AngryLips wrote: »

Well it worked; the number of people cycling is the highest it's ever been

Yes but they are also cycling more in places wheres theres no 30km/h limit too.

Most of the traffic ignore these limits anyway. After the initial showboating I don't see any attempt to enforce these limits. So if traffic hasn't slowed down, it can't have a knock on effect to anything else.

Its Placebo at best.

Cookie_Monster · 10-02-2011 3:17pm

AngryLips wrote: »

Well it worked; the number of people cycling is the highest it's ever been

The speed of traffic on a few streets in the middle of a city has nothing what so ever to do with the increasing number of people cycling.

You can thank the Dublin Bikes system and the cycle to work scheme for much of the increase.

-Chris- · 10-02-2011 3:55pm

dynamick wrote: »

actual changes to the 30 kph zone are below:

Just wondering, does anyone have any idea why Eden Quay and Burgh Quay are to be excluded? It seems like a strange decision to me.

trellheim · 10-02-2011 4:52pm

And. correct me if I'm wrong, but the Oireachtas complex as well ?

Part of the recent 30KPH inner city speed limit to be scrapped.

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