Eurogamer hits a nerve

dreamers75 · 04-02-2011 12:43am #1

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-02-02-call-of-duty-black-ops-first-strike-review

Read the editors apology of sorts.

I didnt know these Daves were on the internet!

Dave is the new name for "them". :pac:

johnny_ultimate · 04-02-2011 12:49am

Writer isn't wrong. Honestly, said gamers are far more plentiful than 'us' weirdos. Someone has to be buying those yearly updates.

Retr0gamer · 04-02-2011 1:11am

Yep he's not wrong, he's also not wrong about how much awful value 15 stingers is for 5 maps. In other games they are provided free by either the developers or the community and are often as good if not better. Alsways find these map packs ruin the online community splitting it between the haves and the have nots and doing more damage than good. Worse was when I fired up Halo 3 months after playing it for a quick blast of something quick and dumb to find out I'd been locked out of the best modes that were available when I bought the game because I didn't own DLC.

KilOit · 04-02-2011 1:13am

Pirating all future CoD games, Black ops left such a sour taste in my mouth still doesn't play well on my decent spec pc. yeah pirating sucks and couldn't care less if it means CoD stops coming to the pc.

mayordenis · 04-02-2011 1:23am

Pretty cheap reason to pirate the game, if you think the new one is **** yes I agree don't buy the next, but don't pirate it and play it either, just give it a miss.

I enjoyed the article I must say...mostly.

Although I'm not big on the "look at him....sneer sneer" ****, I think it was meant in jest but there is a very large amount of gamers who are only in for the elitism and it limits the industry in alot of ways, one minute "Gaming nerds" don't want to be marginalised the next minute they want to **** on someone who is only dipping their toes into the bigger games ala Fifa and COD.

dreamers75 · 04-02-2011 1:29am

mayordenis wrote: »

Although I'm not big on the "look at him....sneer sneer" ****, I think it was meant in jest but there is a very large amount of gamers who are only in for the elitism and it limits the industry in alot of ways, one minute "Gaming nerds" don't want to be marginalised the next minute they want to **** on someone who is only dipping their toes into the bigger games ala Fifa and COD.

Gamers = LOI fans :pac:

Daves = :pac::pac::pac:

KilOit · 04-02-2011 1:35am

mayordenis wrote: »

Pretty cheap reason to pirate the game, if you think the new one is **** yes I agree don't buy the next, but don't pirate it and play it either, just give it a miss.

Never said Black Ops is **** i said it plays like ****.
Feel i have to make an exception for future CoD games, this buyers regret ain't going away till i get the next CoD game for free.

landsleaving · 04-02-2011 1:47am

Big budget, heavily marketed piece of mass market populist entertainment, geared toward addicting casual play appeals to non (sigh) 'hardcore' gamers? Shock.

What's his point exactly, that we're being priced out of these map packs by people who don't buy other games? And this complaint being made on behalf of the same group who paid to download an armoured horse in Oblivion? I don't think Dave's future borther in law understands his audience.

Although if the reaction was that bad, assumedly they're all called Dave. Or are just psychotic Call of Duty fanboys. And I'll take Dave over them any day.

K.O.Kiki · 04-02-2011 2:06am

KilOit, instead of being a muppet & pirating the next CoD game, why not try out any of the DOZENS of better FPS games instead?

Also, maybe you should read a few user reviews. That's generally how you find out if a game is good or not, and it saves you money!

Shiminay · 04-02-2011 2:27am

Mass consumerism has finally come to Computer Gaming in a big scale and this is how gamers are reacting. Personally I find it shockingly disappointing that I have friends who will instantly buy Call of Duty as soon as it comes out because they feel they have to. It's a real shame to see people who I knew as Gamers have turned into Consumers. I've played BLOPS and it's a decent game, but it's also a boring game. There is nothing original in it, just refinement on what they know is a winning formula.

But with every art-form, there are those who churn out "radio friendly unit shifters" and there are actual artists - The Call of Duty and FIFA's of this world are the computer gaming equivalent of XFactor winners and Boy Bands - mass generic appeal, but nothing distinctive and a massive fan base with no actual appreciation of the art, just content in the knowledge that they know what they like and are happy to live in their bubble.

Dave isn't any less of a person but he's not a gamer in our (we the regulars of Boards.ie's Gaming forum, we who have worked our way up from 8bit eras and having to worry about having SB16 compatible drivers etc) traditional sense of the word though. So few of the teeny-boppers who buy Jedward's CD will never be able to understand why Mozart was one of the greatest creators of music this planet's ever seen.

you don't have to like it, but you have to at least acknowledge that it's here to stay.

johnny_ultimate · 04-02-2011 2:51am

Occassionally I do get frustrated by the 'mass market' dominance. I often used to seriously wonder why people would return a great film to the shelf because it was subtitled. But I've come to realise most don't care. It'd be great if everyone could embrace the great art out there, but they don't, and who are we to complain? Truth is most don't care whether TF2 is better than CoD (it is

). It doesn't concern them that Deadly Premonition has a great story. They haven't the foggiest what obscure schmup they should play. They are the majority, they're the ones who decide what games sell, and they have no interest in our enthusiast nitpicking. Ain't nothing we as the minority can do, or indeed should we? It's the way modern society works in all mediums, and we'll all be happier if we just get on with it and do our own thing. Ignorance may be bliss, but at least we haven't missed out on Ico.

landsleaving · 04-02-2011 1:04pm

I think the problem with games is that there's no obvious underground, no real arthouse as there is with movies, so we all get scared there'll only be Call of Duty in the future. It'll end up the same as any other medium eventually, but that'll be when the gaming media start saying Call of Duty, Fifa and all the other blockbusters aren't innovative, creative or worth the effort, and when we start getting over the ridiculous notion that games need a huge budget or great graphics to be good.

Duggy747 · 04-02-2011 1:14pm

Never caught onto the whole online Call Of Duty mullarkey. Far too much elitism to really enjoy it. Call of Duty is the equivalent of a summer blockbuster in gaming and pushes other worthy shooters out of the limelight.

Black Ops was a disaster of a game to run on my machine which was more than capable for it. I shouldn't have to disable one of my processers to get the damn thing running at a steady rate.

NotorietyH · 04-02-2011 1:33pm

landsleaving wrote: »

I think the problem with games is that there's no obvious underground, no real arthouse as there is with movies.

Sure there is, there's plenty of indie games that are pretty damn successful, and a plenty of downloadable games on console from XBLA and PSN. Braid, Limbo, Super Meat Boy immediately spring to mind.

I'd wager that indie games share about the same amount of the market compared to blockbuster games as arthouse/indie movies do to blockbuster hollywood films, if not more so.

landsleaving · 04-02-2011 1:43pm

I don't mean the games aren't being made, more that there isn't really a proper distinction between the two. You'd never see a film critic/buff say the latest Transformers is equally as good as something intelligent and thought provoking, but produced on a low budget, just because the special effects are good and it's vaguely entertaining, but you read any games magazine and Call of Duty 2010 gets as good a review as something like Limbo or Flower because it's more polished or instantly accessible. Gamers don't seem to have a discerning attitude yet. The success of indie games is a good sign its on the way though and I'd say you're right that they have a similar share of the market.

johnny_ultimate · 04-02-2011 1:50pm

If you're looking at 'arthouse' as artistic, thoughtful games, then I'd agree there's only a small amount. It's far easier to find a reflective foreign film than it is a game that has something to say. There are a few - the independent PC scene and to a lesser degree XBLA, PSN and WiiWare - but not a dominant force by any stretch. Although the 'one man' game is becoming more prevalent, Minecraft being a good example. Anyone can pick up a camera and make a film (not very well, but still) and gaming is going that way, but Minecraft is an exception and for the 'big budget' game one needs a lot of money.

I do think there are gaming niches though. People who play JRPGs or RTS games or Treasure schmups are part of a niche, in much the way people who watch martial arts films are. I'd consider a lot of games 'outside' the mainstream, and while they may not be as thought provoking as a Michael Haneke film, they are still arthouse in the way their appeal is limited to a relatively small subset of gamers. The fact that games are driven by game mechanics and play is what makes it hard to say much of interest, but as developers become more comfortable with technology and interactive storytelling they will become more intelligent (Braid or the like are already on the way). But until then there are a ****tonne of games which are far outside the mass market, with a reliance on shall we say more 'hardcore' central mechanics than the ones that tend to dominate sales charts. One could certainly look on these subsets as the gaming 'arthouse' crowd.

tman · 04-02-2011 1:50pm

Logged on to read the original article and noticed that I had an unread message... Funnily enough it was spam from EG trying to advertise the very same map pack... Way to bite the hand that feeds you:p

NotorietyH · 04-02-2011 1:54pm

landsleaving wrote: »

I don't mean the games aren't being made, more that there isn't really a proper distinction between the two. You'd never see a film critic/buff say the latest Transformers is equally as good as something intelligent and thought provoking.

I'd disagree with that too. Empire gave the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie 5 stars and The King's Speech five. It doesn't mean they think Pirates is an equal to, deep or as worthy as the King's Speech, but for what they, and what they set out to do, both are five star movies. One is an excellent piece of Blockbuster entertainment and the other is a period drama. Hell they gave the first Transformers 4 stars, the same as they gave 127 Hours. Most movie specific magazines and movie critics really judge a film not on whether it holds up to Citizen Kane, but whether it's entertaining or emotionally involving, is escapist fun or thought provoking and insightful, and doesn't regard either approach as superior to the other. I think the same applies to the game industry's best critics and websites.

If you want to see just how wrong movie critics can be, check out Armond White's reviews. He's made a career of being a professional troll. Transformers 2 is an outstanding piece of cinema according to him, while he claims Toy Story 3 is shallow and designed just to sell toys to kids.

johnny_ultimate · 04-02-2011 2:02pm

NotorietyH wrote: »

I'd disagree with that too. Empire gave the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie 5 stars and The King's Speech five. It doesn't mean they think Pirates is an equal to, deep or as worthy as the King's Speech, but for what they, and what they set out to do, both are five star movies. One is an excellent piece of Blockbuster entertainment and the other is a period drama. Hell they gave the first Transformers 4 stars, the same as they gave 127 Hours. Most movie specific magazines and movie critics really judge a film not on whether it holds up to Citizen Kane, but whether it's entertaining or emotionally involving, is escapist fun or thought provoking and insightful, and doesn't regard either approach as superior to the other. I think the same applies to the game industry's best critics and websites.

If you want to see just how wrong movie critics can be, check out Armond White's reviews. He's made a career of being a professional troll. Transformers 2 is an outstanding piece of cinema according to him, while he claims Toy Story 3 is shallow and designed just to sell toys to kids.

Well Empire are the IGN of film so they don't count :P But yeah, I agree with you in general. 'Mainstream' isn't a bad thing, there are loads of big budget games and films I absolutely adore. But as you say you have to take things for what they are. CoD is definitely a game with solid central foundations (I'd argue said foundations have had a negative effect on online gaming on the whole, but that's a separate argument) and its success is hard to begrudge even if one doesn't like it. But in much the same way Avatar is bound to gross more than Black Swan or the King's Speech. This is just the way commercial cinema and gaming work, and while it is perhaps disappointing so many people ignore the genuinely good stuff out there in favour of whatever is fed to them, there isn't anything we can do about it or indeed begrudge the situation. Far easier not to let it concern you and get on with playing what you like as opposed to what we're told to like.

Grumpypants · 04-02-2011 2:16pm

I think you have to find a happy medium, people who only play COD or FIFA are just as annoying as people who will only play some obscure Japanese RPG's.

I have enjoyed simple little games from indie developers but at the same time i have played games recommended to me because "they are great little indie games" and they have been terrible. At the same time i've also loved and hated big blockbuster games COD4 was brilliant, 5,6&7 are very average. Medal of Honor who most people hated, i loved.

A lot of it is personal taste and a lot of it comes down to being in the right mood at the right time too. Ive often been over tired playing a game and hating it only to come back to it 6 months later and playing it for 14 hours solid !!

krudler · 04-02-2011 2:35pm

Grumpypants wrote: »

I think you have to find a happy medium, people who only play COD or FIFA are just as annoying as people who will only play some obscure Japanese RPG's.

This, the "oh I played that game on Jap import 2 years ago, you're soooo not a hardcore gamer, go play Halo nooob!" gamers are just as annoying as the "I only play whats on Gamestops chart" gamers. A mix is needed.

Shiminay · 04-02-2011 4:54pm

Those obscure JPRG types are gamer hipsters. Obscure Jap import games are the equivalent of a pretty looking fixie bike for those arseholes.

:D:D

gizmo · 04-02-2011 5:13pm

NotorietyH wrote: »

I'd disagree with that too. Empire gave the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie 5 stars and The King's Speech five. It doesn't mean they think Pirates is an equal to, deep or as worthy as the King's Speech, but for what they, and what they set out to do, both are five star movies. One is an excellent piece of Blockbuster entertainment and the other is a period drama. Hell they gave the first Transformers 4 stars, the same as they gave 127 Hours. Most movie specific magazines and movie critics really judge a film not on whether it holds up to Citizen Kane, but whether it's entertaining or emotionally involving, is escapist fun or thought provoking and insightful, and doesn't regard either approach as superior to the other. I think the same applies to the game industry's best critics and websites.

I treat games in almost the same manner as I treat movies, and that manner is the same as Roger Ebert who I think put it best...

When you ask a friend if Hellboy is any good, you're not asking if it's any good compared to Mystic River, you're asking if it's any good compared to The Punisher. And my answer would be, on a scale of one to four, if Superman is four, then Hellboy is three and The Punisher is two. In the same way, if American Beauty gets four stars, then The United States of Leland clocks in at about two.

Kharn wrote: »

Those obscure JPRG types are gamer hipsters. Obscure Jap import games are the equivalent of a pretty looking fixie bike for those arseholes. :D:D

Kharn just called you a hipster Retr0gamer :pac:

super_furry · 04-02-2011 5:19pm

Thing is, FIFA, Halo, CoD (before Black Ops), NFS Hot Pursuit they're all really really good games. And sure, they're Michael Bay films compared to the likes of Braid's (which I still think in massively overated) Todd Solondz-esque efforts. But there's easily room for both.

gizmo · 04-02-2011 5:27pm

super_furry wrote: »

Thing is, FIFA, Halo, CoD (before Black Ops), NFS Hot Pursuit they're all really really good games. And sure, they're Michael Bay films compared to the likes of Braid's (which I still think in massively overated) Todd Solondz-esque efforts. But there's easily room for both.

Tell that to the publishers who refuse to green light original IP titles for fear of them being too risky or to Ninja Theory after their extremely enjoyable Enslaved failed to even break 500,000 copies sold or maybe SEGAs board who are probably getting pissed that Platinum Games' output isn't selling as well as it should given the critical success it has earned.

super_furry · 04-02-2011 5:32pm

Yeah but Enslaved wasn't an indie game it was a massive studio undertaking, involving high profile (and price) actors, a massive advertising campaign and serious studio backing. It was also pretty generic although it did look very pretty.

The advent of digital downloads have meant that the indie development scene has never, ever been healthier. Five years ago that argument might have been valid but with the likes of Minecraft, Torchlight, Braid and Magicka (already the best game I've played in years) all proving to be big hits, then I feel that there really is room for both.

gizmo · 04-02-2011 6:43pm

super_furry wrote: »

Yeah but Enslaved wasn't an indie game it was a massive studio undertaking, involving high profile (and price) actors, a massive advertising campaign and serious studio backing. It was also pretty generic although it did look very pretty.

The advent of digital downloads have meant that the indie development scene has never, ever been healthier. Five years ago that argument might have been valid but with the likes of Minecraft, Torchlight, Braid and Magicka (already the best game I've played in years) all proving to be big hits, then I feel that there really is room for both.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with you that there's room for both. I'm just worried that publishers will disagree given the risks associated with the production of original IP to a AAA standard.

johnny_ultimate · 04-02-2011 6:51pm

gizmo wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with you that there's room for both. I'm just worried that publishers will disagree given the risks associated with the production of original IP to a AAA standard.

Indeed. Platinum were born out of the commercial failure of Clover who despite a number of critically acclaimed games were shut down by Capcom - and while Platinum are churning out gold at the moment, you have to wonder how long Sega will support them given their lack of chart impact. Bizarre Creations have recently gone under after taking a risk with original IPs. Oddworld Inhabitants weren't able to stay afloat despite the quality of Stranger's Wrath. Of the big studios only EA seem willing to give underperforming titles a second chance (it's the reason Dead Space 2 exists, and I'm sure a Mirror's Edge sequel is on the cards). But in the cutthroat world of big budget game development, it's only a handful of original big budget IPs that manage to make a profit. And for a game to push the boundaries of technology these days and develop a AAA title for retail, money is a necessity.

K.O.Kiki · 05-02-2011 1:11am

IMHO developers should realise that trying to compete with the big names is a stupid endeavour, and instead release games on download portals instead (XBLA, PSN, App Store, Steam etc.)

Recettear (dev: EasyGameStation, pub: Carpe Fulgur) is one of my favourite titles of last year, and for a game that seemed dead-on-arrival (quirky Japanese item-shop RPG) it went on to sell enough in 6 months to keep them in business until 2012.

krudler · 05-02-2011 1:42am

gizmo wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with you that there's room for both. I'm just worried that publishers will disagree given the risks associated with the production of original IP to a AAA standard.

what about Dead Space? its easy to forget it was a pretty unhyped release, it came out before Resi 5 and completely surpassed it in terms of production, atmosphere and gameplay. As well as having still brilliant graphics and some of the greatest sound design in a game of this generation imo.
Given the choice at the time people would have been way more hyped for a new Resi game instead of this Resi meets Event Horizon pretender to the throne, now people would probably be more hyped for DS2 than Resi 6 after the disappointment of 5.
so a new IP can become something huge when the effort is put in, and lets be fair DS1 is in no way a shoddy game in any department that needed a sequel to fix anything, and the Dead Space universe is more expanded than most franchises that have been around twice as long, with comics, two animated movies one decent spinoff (Extraction) and one ok admittedly sh1te one in that stupid puzzle thing on xbla, EA did a great job of using media outside the game to tell a bigger story.

Mr E · 05-02-2011 2:23am

I'm taking a stand for the Daves in this forum.

Eurogamer wrote:

Hi Eurogamer! Eurogamer, this is Dave.

Nope, not me.

Eurogamer wrote:

Dave might look like us, and in many ways he behaves like us, but he is not like us.

OK, you have my attention. Lets see where this goes....

Eurogamer wrote:

He is, in fact, quite different. Note his furrowed brow and the hint of menace in his eyes.

Fair comment. But its only because I've been playing Super Meatboy and I want to throw my controller at the TV.

Eurogamer wrote:

Look at those trainers. Judge him.

I only wear 'trainers' in the gym (and I don't call them trainers either)

Eurogamer wrote:

Dave owns a console and a big television, like any right-minded individual.

Big TV, sure, but I have all 3 current gen consoles, TYVM.

Eurogamer wrote:

The problem is that he only has it to play two games: the FIFA football game and Call of Duty.

Bollox. Both COD games bored me (never finished either of them) and I've never bought a FIFA game.

Eurogamer wrote:

He is, and let's not shy away from the term, part of a growing underclass of gamers. The people who pollute our lifestyle: those of a mind to play Team Death Match in Nuketown every night to the exclusion of everything else.

Wrong. I'm playing Dead Space 2 every night at the moment. An EA game. Oops...

Eurogamer wrote:

In six months, Dave will become my brother-in-law. He makes me sick.

I don't have a sister, so you're marrying my brother? I didn't even know he was gay.

Eurogamer wrote:

He hasn't even heard of Braid.

Yes I have. As a game, it thinks its a bit more clever than it really is, but I really enjoyed it for what it was. Clever ending too. Still need to do that 45 minute achievement though, but I'll get around to it some day. Jonathan Blow has my attention for any new games he releases.... I'm looking forward to The Witness (his next game), due out later this year. Will that do?

Eurogamer wrote:

Dave doesn't know who Bobby Kotick is.

Yes I do. He is a guy who doesn't respect his developers and doesn't respect gamers. He is happier treading out sequel after sequel of tired franchises rather than rewarding or encouraging innovation or new IPs in his own company.

Eurogamer wrote:

Bobby Kotick, however, knows Dave. He knows Dave's basic needs and Neanderthal desires.

Innovation?

Eurogamer wrote:

He knows how to gather dirty coins from Dave's pockets in exchange for hours and hours of 'entertainment'.

So he's behind those sites too. Good going..... I'd say they make more for him than games.

Eurogamer wrote:

Important today is the fact that Bobby Kotick knows that Dave has never bought a game expansion or map pack in his life...

Eh? Bought and finished all borderlands DLC in the last year (except Mad Moxie coz its shit and ill-conceived - at least they tried something different. Why not give that a whirl sometime, Bobby?).

Eurogamer wrote:

... yet will happily hand over a ludicrous 1200 Microsoft Points (once I've told him what they are) for a paltry four maps and a zombie level.

Didn't even buy Black Ops, and I have about 4000 Microsoft points in my account all set for Hard Corps, Torchlight and Beyond Good and Evil HD (and none of those are Activision games, so they're not getting a penny).

Eurogamer wrote:

Stupid, silly, ignorant Dave.

Stupid, silly, ignorant Eurogamer.

Please don't tar all Daves with the same brush.

Eurogamer hits a nerve

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