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Why I won't be voting Sinn Fein

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    #152
    BLIZZARD7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭BLIZZARD7


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Getting people with over 1 million in assets to contribute more. For having more you should give more. As I once heard "if you are not poor effort to take charity, you should give to charity" Consultants, Judges, Bankers, CEO's all make enough to give more!

    That's a huge generalisation, I agree with BB, these people generally deserve to be paid more, how much is up for debate. How do you make developers with millions of euro in debt pay more? Just because they have over 1 million in assests dosent mean they are wealthy, not anymore anyway.





    Dan


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    #153
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    @ wolfpawnat

    ah yeah but you know what happens,1% quickly becomes 5%.

    I've no problem with property taxes done fairly on ability to pay and value but I think taking a skelp of money saved for instance thats already been taxed is penalty tax.
    Tax the interest earned on it by all means or the return on investing it as that is unearned income but don't go after loot that was already hard earned.
    If people are clever enough to earn it,they should be allowed to keep the same proportion of it as anyone else.
    Thats where I part company with some socialists because I believe that higher earners already contribute more because the same percentage of their income [as long as you ensure it IS the same percentage] is a bigger contribution than lower earners.


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    #154
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    BLIZZARD7 wrote: »
    That's a huge generalisation, I agree with BB, these people generally deserve to be paid more, how much is up for debate. How do you make developers with millions of euro in debt pay more? Just because they have over 1 million in assests dosent mean they are wealthy, not anymore anyway.


    Dan

    Developers have given their money to their wives to stop us from getting money to help pay for their féck ups! This would insure they pay for it!

    Consultants are on about 200,000 a year. Do not tell me they are taking pay cuts the same as the doctors in A&E that are doing even more difficult work everyday!

    Judges have a lot to consider in their jobs, but I could never see them as overworked. They work until 5 and then they call it a day and go home!

    The managing director of ESB was paid €750,000. I for one think this is too much to pay anyone in the current economic climate would you not agree?


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    #155
    BLIZZARD7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭BLIZZARD7


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Developers have given their money to their wives to stop us from getting money to help pay for their féck ups! This would insure they pay for it!

    Consultants are on about 200,000 a year. Do not tell me they are taking pay cuts the same as the doctors in A&E that are doing even more difficult work everyday!

    Judges have a lot to consider in their jobs, but I could never see them as overworked. They work until 5 and then they call it a day and go home!

    The managing director of ESB was paid €750,000. I for one think this is too much to pay anyone in the current economic climate would you not agree?

    Yes I agree about your last point but not all bankers are paid anything near that salary.

    Fair enough about the judges and consultants. :)

    But no not all developers have given money to their wives, plenty of them just lost their money, for example on the stock Market, bank shares crashed and anyone who owned the shares has lost their money. Yes people were stupid to invest huge amounts of money in shares but I feel sorry for anyone who invested everything they had in them.





    Dan


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    #156
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Remember most people who earn more money do so because they have more skills and are using them.
    That's eminently debatable.


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    #157
    BLIZZARD7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭BLIZZARD7


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    That's eminently debatable.

    Explain?




    Dan


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    #158
    keithm1
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭keithm1


    I will be voting sinn fein for the first time ever ,I say give them a shot The whole political system needs a sharp shock and the other partys need to be on there toes ,we need rid of complacency
    A big change is what's needed not just another party to carry on from where the last crooks left off


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    #159
    xoxyx
    Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭xoxyx


    Love how this thread has spiralled away from the original point. :D

    My original question was whether you think that Sinn Fein has a chance of getting into government or whether tactical voting might be a better idea in this election.

    Very interesting reading though! I think it goes to show that opinions and feelings are running high at the moment - which is great! Nothing worse than apathetic voters. I believe that this is something which will stand to us in how we make our decisions next month.

    (Still couldn't believe hearing a guy on the radio today who was listing all the ways in which he was down in money and fed up with the country, but he was still going to vote FF because that was the party he has always known. Beware - they walk among us.)


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    #160
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    BLIZZARD7 wrote: »
    Explain?
    Dan
    You won't get an explanation for that because it's like Gerry Adams when exposed on the radio "beautifull" posts like that are only skin deep.


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    #161
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Consultants are on about 200,000 a year. Do not tell me they are taking pay cuts the same as the doctors in A&E that are doing even more difficult work everyday!
    Believe me, I've no desire to defend consultant salaries, but yes, they are taking even bigger pay cuts than "doctors in A&E", which in itself makes no sense are there are consultant grade "doctors in A&E. The latest contract they're getting (as of the 10% PS pay cut) is somewhere north of €150k, with no private practice allowed.
    Maybe it's just compared to their old salaries, but I can't believe I think that's almost a fair wage for them...:D


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    #162
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    BLIZZARD7 wrote: »
    Explain?
    Developers? Farmers? Bankers? Senior civil servants? University managers?
    Plenty of people in Ireland have little "skill" except making money, quite often at others' expense.


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    #163
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You won't get an explanation for that because it's like Gerry Adams when exposed on the radio "beautifull" posts like that are only skin deep.
    That's not a very "beautifull" post in itself TBH.


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    #164
    NeedaNewName
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭NeedaNewName


    sdonn wrote: »
    Wait a sec.

    Adams, McGuinness, Ferris.

    All have danced with the devil that is subversive activity (allegedly) in their past.

    That, and that alone, would be enough to put me off voting for them in their current guise. Let alone the oodles of other policies I do or do not disagree with.

    There will I fear be a huge amount of ill-thought out badly motivated protest votes that will go SF's way...only hope not too many - they should never be allowed into a government of this country until they get rid of the bad eggs at the top. Regardless of how much I personally would love a united Ireland - they just have too much stigma attached and I think a fresh start for them would do them no end of favours.

    Didn't most of the old parties dance with the Devil and if I might say so have blood on their hands? What!? That was in the past?

    I'll be voting SF. I don't think they really have their sh1t together but it is the hand grenade into Irish politics, if not society itself, that is needed.

    I'd rather be voting for a new party that removed itself from all the old ones but that will never happen.


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    #165
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    NeedaNewName wrote: »
    I'd rather be voting for a new party that removed itself from all the old ones but that will never happen.
    ULA? Don't have many candidates (yet) mind you. Like SF but without the clothes peg on the nose...


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    #166
    BLIZZARD7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭BLIZZARD7


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Developers? Farmers? Bankers? Senior civil servants? University managers?
    Plenty of people in Ireland have little "skill" except making money, quite often at others' expense.

    Rubbish, most of the occupations you named would require a high level of skill, to be successful. I see what you mean BB. :rolleyes:


    EDIT : making money is a skill IMO, don't see how it's at others expense.


    Dan


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    #167
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    BLIZZARD7 wrote: »
    Rubbish, most of the occupations you named would require a high level of skill, to be successful. I see what you mean BB. :rolleyes:
    :rolleyes: right back at you. By "most" you obviously meant "all" who are rich deserve their money. Isn't robbing banks a skill?


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    #168
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    This part of the conversation has ran it's course see'ing as it's down to insulting farmers and those with further education now and assorted ridiculousness.
    Even Sf wouldn't start at that crack.


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    #169
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This part of the conversation has ran it's course see'ing as it's down to insulting farmers and those with further education now and assorted ridiculousness.
    Even Sf wouldn't start at that crack.
    Nice of you to declare this conversation over unilaterally on the basis of some stuff you're pretending I said.
    You know where the door is.


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    #170
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    BLIZZARD7 wrote: »
    Yes I agree about your last point but not all bankers are paid anything near that salary.

    Fair enough about the judges and consultants. :)

    But no not all developers have given money to their wives, plenty of them just lost their money, for example on the stock Market, bank shares crashed and anyone who owned the shares has lost their money. Yes people were stupid to invest huge amounts of money in shares but I feel sorry for anyone who invested everything they had in them.

    Dan

    My uncle was a developer, he has land in Dublin now that is worthless and he has lost almost everything. He had a small enough firm to begin with but still. No he has only his house and his family now. And he is grateful to have it! I am talking about the big bankers and the developers. I know the people behind the tills in the banks and those working in the offices of investment banking firms are just the same as the teacher and garda!

    My bone is with the millionaires/billionaires! The big boys, Bill Cullen, Denis O'Brien, Quinn and them being examples, they can pay more!


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    #171
    BLIZZARD7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭BLIZZARD7


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    :rolleyes: right back at you. By "most" you obviously meant "all" who are rich deserve their money. Isn't robbing banks a skill?

    No I didnt mean all, robbing banks is illegal, none of the occupations you mentioned are, so what is your point?





    Dan


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    #172
    BLIZZARD7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭BLIZZARD7


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    My uncle was a developer, he has land in Dublin now that is worthless and he has lost almost everything. He had a small enough firm to begin with but still. No he has only his house and his family now. And he is grateful to have it! I am talking about the big bankers and the developers. I know the people behind the tills in the banks and those working in the offices of investment banking firms are just the same as the teacher and garda!

    My bone is with the millionaires/billionaires! The big boys, Bill Cullen, Denis O'Brien, Quinn and them being examples, they can pay more!


    I agree with this fully. :)
    I know of similar people who lost everything, I know a few people working in banks, in investment. All of which never had anything to do with lending but are still treated the same as those that were lending out ridiculus sums of money. Not very fair.





    Dan


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    #173
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    BLIZZARD7 wrote: »
    No I didnt mean all, robbing banks is illegal, none of the occupations you mentioned are, so what is your point?
    Actually it was YOUR point that most people with high salaries deserved their money. Whether it is illegal or not was never mentioned by you, all you said was that rich people deserve their money. And apparently paying a senior civil servant €200,000 doesn't affect anybody else at all, if we were to listen to you.
    Why don't we pay everyone on the dole the same then, huh?


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    #174
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    BLIZZARD7 wrote: »
    No I didnt mean all, robbing banks is illegal, none of the occupations you mentioned are, so what is your point?

    Twelve pages later.........


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    #175
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    squod wrote: »
    Twelve pages later.........
    Yeah, robbing banks is illegal, but being a banker who robs the country isn't!:D


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    #176
    BLIZZARD7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭BLIZZARD7


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Actually it was YOUR point that most people with high salaries deserved their money. Whether it is illegal or not was never mentioned by you, all you said was that rich people deserve their money. And apparently paying a senior civil servant €200,000 doesn't affect anybody else at all, if we were to listen to you.
    Why don't we pay everyone on the dole the same then, huh?

    Ok obviously i meant in a legal way.

    I didn't say rich people deserve their Money but people who have have a high level of skill and work hard deserve it, point taken about not affecting anyone but it's not the senior civil servant's fault that he's paid €200,000 or whatever, it's the people who employ him, ie our government.

    In answer to you last question, maybe we should.





    Dan


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    #177
    BLIZZARD7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭BLIZZARD7


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Yeah, robbing banks is illegal, but being a banker who robs the country isn't!:D

    I'm sorry but it is, there's very few bankers who you could say "have robbed our country" and they should be in prison anyway.





    Dan


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    #178
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,477 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    I won't be voting SF due to the simple fact they have no candidate around here :(


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    #179
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    BLIZZARD7 wrote: »
    I didn't say rich people deserve their Money but people who have have a high level of skill and work hard deserve it, point taken about not affecting anyone but it's not the senior civil servant's fault that he's paid €200,000 or whatever, it's the people who employ him, ie our government
    That makes no sense. Because the government pay senior civil servants too much then they deserve it? What?


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    #180
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Nice of you to declare this conversation over unilaterally on the basis of some stuff you're pretending I said.
    You know where the door is.
    Rofl,I'm not impressed with the gibberish read here in the last few pages like in post 162,you paint farmers as undeserving of what they earn,thats an ignorant statement.
    It's descending the debate into rubbish.
    I don't see a meeting of minds at that level at all.
    Little wonder theres only 3 people in this thread.


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    #181
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Rofl,I'm not impressed with the gibberish read here in the last few pages like in post 162,you paint farmers as undeserving of what they earn,thats an ignorant statement.
    It's descending the debate into rubbish.
    I don't see a meeting of minds at that level at all.
    Little wonder theres only 3 people in this thread.
    You can label yourself as making this debate rubbish if you so wish. That's up to you.
    Yes, many farmers do not deserve what they get, mainly thanks to inheriting vast amounts of land/wealth and the CAP preventing them from ever having to face the reality of market forces. It's free money.


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