One-off houses: Good or Bad?

Triangle · 21-11-2010 7:46pm

I love reading this thread, and find it hard to stop myself screaming at the computer!

Yes the logic is sound, one off housing is bad. But from a quality of living i'd pick the 'bad' housing over high density concrete sprawl that makes more 'sense'

just look at knocknacarra (Galway) and Dublin itself as an idea of the irish management of urban quality developments. Seriously.... ...how can anyone stand over these types of developments while looking down on one off housing?

And yes, i live in a one off house in the countryside as my previous (Urban)house was overlooked by 6 other houses and we could wave at the neighbours behind us while being in our kitchen.
And as previous posters have pointed out, my living expenses are higher
because of this choice - petrol, water charges, extra bin charges, etc

logically, i had no choice but to live in the rural once of house if i wanted any bit of privacy.

L1011 · 21-11-2010 9:42pm

Your higher living expenses don't even begin to cover the higher cost of providing services to you. The pathetic difference in electricity standing charge doesn't cover the ESBs costs, etc.

ForiegnNational · 23-11-2010 1:05pm

MYOB wrote: »

Your higher living expenses don't even begin to cover the higher cost of providing services to you. The pathetic difference in electricity standing charge doesn't cover the ESBs costs, etc.

Whilst not defending one off properties, I am not quite sure how you can say you do not pay the higher costs of providing services to one off housing. If you care to check the ESB rates for single dwellings (table 2.2), you can see the connection charge is €1644 (standard connection).

Now as a guess, most new one off dwellings tend to be within 4 or 5 electricity poles of the existing network; therefore even taking in costs of 5 poles, plus cable, plus installation time... I still estimate that the ESB are making a profit on linking up one off houses.

If you continue to review the document, you will see prices quickly fall for each additional unit added (€1085 per property for 2 residences, €905 pp for 4, €814 pp for 8, etc). Therefore owners of one off properties ARE paying for the higher costs directly.

knipex · 23-11-2010 4:22pm

MYOB wrote: »

Your higher living expenses don't even begin to cover the higher cost of providing services to you. The pathetic difference in electricity standing charge doesn't cover the ESBs costs, etc.

Ahhhhh

That explains why all electriciy stations are built in urban areas............

knipex · 23-11-2010 5:10pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Lot of points to rebut here, so let me get going.

Fundamentally your logic is flawed, because you're making the mistake of thinking that the reason people move to cities is because that's where the jobs are. That's *not* why they move there, though it does contribute.

Quite simply, people move to cities because it's where other people are. There is a massing effect that you get when you put people together in one place - you get more than you would if they were dispersed.

That is a huge assumption to make. As a person who grew up in rural Ireland and moved to a city the only reason was for work. The same can be said for the vast majority of my peers.

spacetweek wrote: »

Small business, services, clubs, sports teams etc. These are all non-existent, or very seldom encountered, in isolated areas.

As I said I grew up in Rural Ireland. Back end of no where in West Clare.

We had squash clubs, GAA clubs, Soccer clubs, 2 youth clubs, a drama club, a debating club, a multitude of book clubs, I couldn't count how many card clubs etc not to mention farmers groups, community groups, water scheme etc. It was unknown for any household not to be involved in at least 2 or 3 of these clubs \ groups and if you had kids many more.

That was far from repeated when I moved to the city.

Small business did exist, large numbers of them everything from construction to farming to construction to small-scale manufacturing. Thats not the case now a planning guidelines no longer allow for these businesses. An old schoolmate of mien recently got refused planning for a small scale manufacturing facility as it was deemed unsuitable for a rural environment and was pointed in the direction of Shannon or Ennis.

spacetweek wrote: »

You seem to think that urbanisation only occurred to serve the needs of the industrial revolution - in that case why did the ancient world have major cities (Tenochichtlan, Rome, Athens, Constantinople, Jerusalem). They weren't industrial areas as industry as we know it didn't exist.

These also were not cities in the modern sense. Look At their populations they were closer to market towns than anything else.

spacetweek wrote: »

And the idea that companies and businesses no longer need to be in cities because of teleworking is nonsense. In that case why do companies like to locate in Silicon Valley or the centre of major cities - they say it's because other companies are there, so there's a support network, and the employees are nearby, so there's a labour pool. Teleworking is overstated and will never become the way the majority do business (I studied the concept in college).

Again a huge assumption. Not all business require a city, or even a large urban centre. Smaller workforces dont require large labour pools and smaller businesses dont require huge support networks. The company where I work could work quite happily in any location.

spacetweek wrote: »

So, to summarise: People need to, and should, live in cities as it civilises society and enriches it;

Now that's cobblers. Cities do the exact opposite, they anonymize, they isolate, they create communities or groups within groups, getto's for the poor and gated compounds for the rich. That's not civilising or enriching. Its the exact opposite.

Look at a small rural community, rich and poor live side by side, attend the same schools, join the same clubs, play the same sports, park side by side at the shops in their new 5 series or 12 year old banger.

Their kids don't get isolated or institutionalized to living generation after generation on the dole. They dont spend their lives surrounded by kids from the same background. They have a far greater sense of community.

They also get a better sense of self worth of attainment. They also become more self reliant both an individuals and as a community. When we needed a GAA field we built it. When we needed a water scheme we built it and managed it. When a try fell blocking a road we pulled out the chain saws.

spacetweek wrote: »

working at home will never become a mass phenomenon; rural dwellers live a lifestyle subsidised by city dwellers; yes, city dwellers have the right to complain about this and impose restrictions on where rural people can and cannot live; no, people do not have the inalienable right to live wherever they feel like.

Again cobblers. I spent 15 years living in a city but when I got married I moved to a rural environment. I'm 5 minutes from the local village, have great neighbours, etc. I have no state funded water (We have a well and also contribute to the local group water scheme) or sewerage (a septic tank not far from my well so you can be damn sure we make certain hats its working correctly), no public transport, the last time the local roads saw the council was lord knows when. Gritted !!!! Are you mad . We bought rock salt and gritted what needed to be gritted ourselves. I have never seen a cop. I didn't build the house so didn't pay the electricity connection fee but we live close to a main network transmission line.

Yet I pay the exact same taxes I did in the city. I commute to work which is longer but takes far less time and uses far less fuel than when I was living in the city (no traffic).

I support the local community and I can pursue my hobby in peace. I love old cars and working on them. Try doing that in a city. I had an old mustang that I took the diff off to get rebuilt. The car was on rear axle stands for two days before I had complaints and a week before the council were out.

The idea that I might want to do the work myself did not seem to register.

L1011 · 23-11-2010 6:17pm

knipex wrote: »

Ahhhhh

That explains why all electriciy stations are built in urban areas............

Firstly, some of them are - Huntstown, the North Wall gas turbines, etc.

Secondly, when did you last see a 220V AC line coming out of a power station? Or when did you see a power station right beside where people think they're entitled to park their McMansions?

dubhthach · 23-11-2010 6:40pm

MYOB wrote: »

Firstly, some of them are - Huntstown, the North Wall gas turbines, etc.

There are the following power stations in the Dublin urban area:
1. Poolbeg
2. Dublin Bay Power
3. North Wall Generating station
4. Huntstown
5. Lexlip Hydro-electric

As for Knipex point. Connections of rural one of houses to the national grid is subsidised and doesn't reflect the actual cost. It's considerably cheaper to connect houses in urban areas as you have "Economy of scale" as a result you connect 100houses to the grid for a fraction of what it takes to connect 100 one-off houses in rural areas. Of course if the connection fee wasn't subsidised you would probably have less one-off development.

I've nothing against people living in the country my issue is with unregulated sprawl/faux surbanisation of rural areas. Traditionally Irish people lived in nucleated settlements called Clocháns. Such a cluster could consist as few as 10 houses. Tbh Clocháns would be considerably better then ribbon development strung out along national roads.

invinciblePRSTV · 23-11-2010 7:00pm

You can argue all you like Knipex, but you're still disputing all accepted conventions of planning and development. We've seen the same counter-argument here time after time, yeah it's tough to accept, but you are living a lifestyle that is completely unsustainable and is a massive drain on resources.

It's no surprise you mention you're from West Clare. If ever there was a case study in how to butcher a rural area with endless one offs that is it. When Clare Co. Co have their block grant from the state repeatedly cut over the next few years to you'll see for yourself exactly what we're talking about.

The roads and public services in rural areas will decline massively. You'll complain bitterly i'm sure but it was extremely difficult to satisfy demands for rural services during the bubble years, it'll be neigh on impossible now.

knipex · 24-11-2010 10:24am

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

You can argue all you like Knipex, but you're still disputing all accepted conventions of planning and development. We've seen the same counter-argument here time after time, yeah it's tough to accept, but you are living a lifestyle that is completely unsustainable and is a massive drain on resources.

It's no surprise you mention you're from West Clare. If ever there was a case study in how to butcher a rural area with endless one offs that is it. When Clare Co. Co have their block grant from the state repeatedly cut over the next few years to you'll see for yourself exactly what we're talking about.

The roads and public services in rural areas will decline massively. You'll complain bitterly i'm sure but it was extremely difficult to satisfy demands for rural services during the bubble years, it'll be neigh on impossible now.

I don't know if you actually read my post but I don't get any services currently. No water, no sewerage, no public transport, no street lighting, no footpaths, never even seen a council worker.

I don't have any issues with that. never had.

Your point about urban living being a civilising factor is complete nonsense, its flies in the face of reality as witnessed in every town and city in the country and indeed internationally. Urban living has lead to isolation and ghettoisation. It creates isolated communities living within urban areas that never interact, it leads to devastation and generations of families never seeing or witnessing the alternatives.

I grew up in west Clare. left many years ago but I agree with you that one ff housing has destroyed previously beautiful areas of West Clare. But I would ask you to drive around West Clare now and see how many of those houses are actually lived in. See how many are actually full time owner occupiers. See how many of them are an actual part of the community.

Those houses should never have been built, should never have been allowed and wrong.

BUT

Don't make the mistake of equating those houses with family homes that form an integral part of a local community. There is a huge difference.

danbohan · 24-11-2010 10:34am

MT wrote: »

I was going to make a foray into the infrastructure forum to start a thread on this topic. I'm glad I was beaten to it as others clearly share my views.

One-off housing in the countryside really irks me. I'll admit that I come at this from a mainly aesthetic concern but I just can't help finding it all so hideous. I also have an interest in this as I live in an area that appears to be at the cross roads between the blight that affects many parts of the Republic and some semblance of a residual planning policy.

Here in the beautiful county of Fermanagh I find myself aghast when peering over the border into probably one of the least planned regions in Western Europe: the Republic's North West. Boy are places like Donegal a sight to behold. It's just shocking. Rural roads are now literally lined with giant pebble dashed monstrosities after stretched yellow bungalows after weird hybrid architectural fantasies that seem to combine the Georgian period, something of a Spanish Hacienda and with a conservatory attached for good measure. It's got really dense now with houses literally cheek by jowel.

Indeed, the density along rural roads in the 'countryside' – stretching unchecked all the way from one village to the next – in places like Donegal, Leitrim, Cavan, Sligo, etc. is such that one-off housing is becoming something of a misnomer. These aren't isolated standalone houses in some Arcadian paradise, at least not up here in the Republic's northwest; this is now an all out suburbanisation of the countryside. There is just mansion after villa endlessly, and probably about a third of these are holiday homes. Excluding, conserved mountain ranges – and believe me some of the builders/farmers in this neck of the woods would stick a house anywhere if they could get away with it – views that don't contain at least five or more houses have long since become extinct.

Needless to say house design shows no connection with or sympathy for the immediate area or its history; it's all big, bigger still and uber-brash. Not to mention how every property's giant boundary walls are out of all proportion and scale to the little roads they line – who are they trying to keep out… planners? But this is a needless focus on the particular; it’s their collective impact that has devastated the region.

The towns and villages in these parts are a site to behold too. Think 1950s Ireland only even more decrepit and with even more peeling paint. Put simply, with the total lack of planning restrictions, the middle classes have said thanks very much and upped and left. They've taken with them not just their presence but also their money and any chance of a middle class interest in urban renewal. In short, this is a region with sprawled over countryside and sh!thole towns. A nightmare for anyone with an interest in planning and the aesthetics of the built/unbuilt environment.

The only people that seem to have gained in these parts are those that are ironically lauded in the region as the salt of the earth; two bit, greasy till developers and daaysint Bull McCabe type farmers are in a sweat to outdo each other over which can grow and harvest the most houses. Developers get to do housing parks on the cheap – they just use the existing roads – while charging a premium for a supposed rural house; with the decline of agriculture sites are the new cash crop of the small farmer.

Why am I concerned about all this? Well it seems to be a tidal wave that's unlikely to stop at the border. Despite Fermanagh being a gem of a rural county with still much unspoilt countryside, the locals are green – hah, there's a laugh as you'll not find much of that colour over the border in years to come – with envy at the free for all next door. Most have already built themselves 'one-off' houses in Donegal and now want to live permanently in one somewhere amongst the hills and dales of Fermanagh – which ironically means the end of the hills and dales.

Indeed, some of the more nationalists peeps here have remonstrated that our 'alien' and restrictive rural planning laws are yet another Brit imposition and a denial of our Irishness. Was bungalow blitz really in the proclamation? Anyway, accordingly the authorities here have acquiesced and there's now a slow but steady war of attrition between the cement mixer and the green hills of this soon to be destroyed lakeland paradise. I see plans for a national park across the county have been quietly dropped.

I suppose there might be a sociological observation lurking somewhere in all this. Is it possible that Irish people have some perverse, deep seated hatred for both towns and the countryside? Or is that too harsh a judgement on their willingness to leave the former to crumble into the ground while pouring concrete over the latter?

Sorry, couldn't help a rant. This whole thing is maddening.

I guess we'll be taking our kids on holidays to England, Scotland and Wales… hell, maybe even Holland:eek: and Germany, in decades to come so that they can have at least a fleeting glimpse of what countryside looks like.

fermanagh is housing is wonderful , places like ballinamallard ,kesh , fivemiletown are wonderful examples of what planning based on scottish housing looks like . rural northern ireland is like a 1950s timewarp . i think your jealous of the superb architectially desighed one off houses in rural areas of the south as are the ''green'' idiots in dublin

L1011 · 25-11-2010 12:08am

danbohan wrote: »

fermanagh is housing is wonderful , places like ballinamallard ,kesh , fivemiletown are wonderful examples of what planning based on scottish housing looks like . rural northern ireland is like a 1950s timewarp . i think your jealous of the superb architectially desighed one off houses in rural areas of the south as are the ''green'' idiots in dublin

You're the second person who can't come up with a more convincing argument than "you're just jealous"

I'm not jealous of being socially isolated, unable to get broadband, unsure of the safety of my water supply from my own sewage, etc, etc.

And the vast, vast majority of McMansions built here in the past 20 years are about as poorly architecturally designed as is possible. All Southfork or clone-boxes.

invinciblePRSTV · 25-11-2010 1:14am

knipex wrote: »

I don't know if you actually read my post but I don't get any services currently. No water, no sewerage, no public transport, no street lighting, no footpaths, never even seen a council worker.

No, i know this. It is a characteristic of many one off houses.

knipex wrote: »

Your point about urban living being a civilising factor is complete nonsense, its flies in the face of reality as witnessed in every town and city in the country and indeed internationally. Urban living has lead to isolation and ghettoisation. It creates isolated communities living within urban areas that never interact, it leads to devastation and generations of families never seeing or witnessing the alternatives.

I did not make any point about urban living being is or isn't a civilising factor. I made the point that one off housing development is unsustainable and costly. You can dress up country living as rosy all you like, but, like urban areas, rural Ireland has many social deprivation problems of its own.

antoobrien · 25-11-2010 9:57am

MYOB wrote: »

unsure of the safety of my water supply from my own sewage

So you live in Galway city then? The water situation in Galway is an advertisement for one off housing if i've ever seen one. It's pretty regular that something happens (on average 2+ weeks approx every two years to my recollection).

This does not happen with properly set up sewage tanks and wells. It does happen with group water schemes that, like all services in this country are poorly set up and maintained.

Given the choice, i'll take my one off house and pay for satellite tv and mobile or fiber broadband. The reason we have poor rural broadband is because of using the cheepest possible option (dsl, which is range limited) instead of investigating what is actually suitable for our nations needs.

wiseguy · 25-11-2010 11:22am

I tried to read the thread but the is quite alot of bull**** IMHO, so here is my perspective as someone who lives in a one off house, maybe we could have a reasoned discussion not insults thrown around. Maybe my situation is an exception but I find some posts stereotypical and offensive, no need paint everyone with same brush.

I live and work in 4 bed with an acre of land here in East Galway. I highlighted the important bit in bold, the whole upper floor (~50sq m) is used as an office for my IT services company (ironically, working on dozens of servers abroad using gigabits of bandwidth, where things are cheaper of course). Despite the recession I am making profits for several years now and have no debt/mortgage etc.
The house does have wireless broadband (2mbit symmetric) the pings are low enough for me to work remotely quite fine, i dont download crap, Internet connection is important to me and business.
The commute for me and my partner usually involves walking up the stairs

(beat that greenies). I just employed another new employee, he can do most of his work from his house, but if needed for a rare meeting he travels 20 minutes from Galway, usually while traffic is stuck in other direction (thank you Greens! for your ****ting on bypass)
There is a school less than KM away, and the child loves it. Plenty of sports in area, and good community spirit, unlike my time in city (lived in Galway, Dublin and other much larger cities outside Ireland) we actually speak/visit regularly to our neighbors

We grow quite a bit of fruit and veg on the land, and I planted a lot of fruit trees.

Regarding sewage I spent quite a bit on a sewage treatment system. And rainwater harvesting, I invested alot of money into insulation, triple glazing, heat recovery, airtightness, solar etc and the house is A rated and always has fresh air (when there aint too many cows in nearby field

)

We shop every so often in Galway and get fresh veg/meat in local villages

Overall me and my family have a much better life and work environment, are happier and more active. Unlike all the armchair environmentalists here I have put my wallet where my mouth is and living quite sustainable, now planning to put up a wind generator (windy hilltop site) to sell back to grid.

Maybe I am an exception but the people in area are happy, involved and not depressed, oh and theres no crime

Is my house a blight on landscape? no its tucked into a hill out of sight as per strict planning rules.

tl:dr dont paint everyone in once of housing with same brush, some of us care more about environment than city folk and actually do something about it.

dubhthach · 25-11-2010 12:09pm

antoobrien wrote: »

So you live in Galway city then? The water situation in Galway is an advertisement for one off housing if i've ever seen one. It's pretty regular that something happens (on average 2+ weeks approx every two years to my recollection).

Part of the issue with Loch Corrib is due to the large number of one off housing in it's catchment area (3138.43 km² - Lough Mask/Carra drain into Corrib via underground rivers). Due to the geology there is a vast amount of underground caves/rivers (most of the flow of Clare river goes underground at Claregalway for example).Old septic tanks that aren't properly lined end up contaminating the ground water which then ends up in the lake.

Cases of Crypto have been endemic in parts of North Galway for the last 20years. My mother who is a retired midwife will tell me that they would often see cases of Crypto in new mothers from North Galway (Area around Headford especially). This was long before the outbreak in Galway city. Basically the amount of Crypto hit such a high level there couple years ago in the Lake that it caused the outbreak in Galway. Of course it doesn't help that water treatment system in Galway city needs to be overhauled.

murphaph · 25-11-2010 12:22pm

Triangle wrote: »

And yes, i live in a one off house in the countryside as my previous (Urban)house was overlooked by 6 other houses and we could wave at the neighbours behind us while being in our kitchen.

I can wave at 20 neighbours from my kitchen window. I couldn't give a fcuk if they see me in my undies boiling an egg.

L1011 · 25-11-2010 1:01pm

antoobrien wrote: »

So you live in Galway city then? The water situation in Galway is an advertisement for one off housing if i've ever seen one. It's pretty regular that something happens (on average 2+ weeks approx every two years to my recollection).

This does not happen with properly set up sewage tanks and wells. It does happen with group water schemes that, like all services in this country are poorly set up and maintained.

Given the choice, i'll take my one off house and pay for satellite tv and mobile or fiber broadband. The reason we have poor rural broadband is because of using the cheepest possible option (dsl, which is range limited) instead of investigating what is actually suitable for our nations needs.

No, I live nowhere near Galway City; and as pointed out already - in that case your water supply is being contaminated with OTHER one-off houses septic tank over runs, not even your own.

Very few one-off houses have properly set up sewage tanks. You can see 2/3 year old houses in the countryside nearby here with marshes for gardens even in dry periods, or getting their tanks dug out for major work repeatedly.

danbohan · 25-11-2010 1:11pm

MYOB wrote: »

You're the second person who can't come up with a more convincing argument than "you're just jealous"

I'm not jealous of being socially isolated, unable to get broadband, unsure of the safety of my water supply from my own sewage, etc, etc.

And the vast, vast majority of McMansions built here in the past 20 years are about as poorly architecturally designed as is possible. All Southfork or clone-boxes.

1.social isolation is much more of a problem in city areas than in rural areas , 2.most people can get some form of broadband even in the most rural of areas ,3 i would be a lot more unsure of your water in dublin than mine but then maybe you like your chemicals , of course your 3 bed semi is lovely , you can always build out the back cant you ? now just because you lack the ability either financially or otherwise to live in a one off house /mansion does not mean you are entitled to knock it for everybody who wants too

L1011 · 25-11-2010 1:27pm

danbohan wrote: »

1.social isolation is much more of a problem in city areas than in rural areas

Try telling that to the charities that despair of how hard it is to deal with elderly people stuck in rural areas. Try telling that to teenagers who can't see their friends after 4pm without getting one of the parents to taxi them everywhere, etc.

danbohan wrote: »

, 2.most people can get some form of broadband even in the most rural of areas

I don't count low speed, high latency products as "broadband". You can't get DSL, FTTH or cable or, generally, even WiMAX which almost falls under the low speed/high latency heading.

danbohan wrote: »

,3 i would be a lot more unsure of your water in dublin than mine but then maybe you like your chemicals

Enjoy your cryptosporidium.

danbohan wrote: »

, of course your 3 bed semi is lovely , you can always build out the back cant you ?

5 bed. And out the side, should I want to. Site is large enough to put a 10 bed B&B on should I ever feel the need to.

danbohan wrote: »

now just because you lack the ability either financially or otherwise to live in a one off house /mansion does not mean you are entitled to knock it for everybody who wants too

Once again, coming back to this useless crutch

I could live in a McMansion if I wanted to - I'm FROM the countryside, there is more than sufficient land in the family, I'm financially sound and probably most importantly, my job is location unspecific.

I don't want to, for a number of reasons, one being that I'm not a selfish bollox willing to damage the countryside, cause environmental damage, put a higher burden on the state, make any future kids social outcasts, etc, etc. NOBODY on here who is against one off housing is against it because of jealousy, as much as you want to believe thats the only reason.

The epidemic of one off housing is the most selfish act of modern Ireland.

danbohan · 25-11-2010 1:38pm

MYOB wrote: »

Try telling that to the charities that despair of how hard it is to deal with elderly people stuck in rural areas. Try telling that to teenagers who can't see their friends after 4pm without getting one of the parents to taxi them everywhere, etc.

I don't count low speed, high latency products as "broadband". You can't get DSL, FTTH or cable or, generally, even WiMAX which almost falls under the low speed/high latency heading.

Enjoy your cryptosporidium.

you know what i dont believe a single word you have written ,. i am not coming out trying to deny you the right to live where you live , its your choice if you chose to live in an urban location . you dont have the right to try and deny people the right live in one off houses if they want too , its not your problem just concentrate on your urban issues leave rural issues to people who live in the rural areas ,your attitude is typical urban green .

Once again, coming back to this useless crutch

I could live in a McMansion if I wanted to - I'm FROM the countryside, there is more than sufficient land in the family, I'm financially sound and probably most importantly, my job is location unspecific.

I don't want to, for a number of reasons, one being that I'm not a selfish bollox willing to damage the countryside, cause environmental damage, put a higher burden on the state, make any future kids social outcasts, etc, etc. NOBODY on here who is against one off housing is against it because of jealousy, as much as you want to believe thats the only reason.

The epidemic of one off housing is the most selfish act of modern Ireland.

you know what i dont believe a single word you have written ,. i am not coming out trying to deny you the right to live where you live , its your choice if you chose to live in an urban location . you dont have the right to try and deny people the right live in one off houses if they want too , its not your problem just concentrate on your urban issues leave rural issues to people who live in the rural areas ,your attitude is typical urban green .

L1011 · 25-11-2010 1:40pm

danbohan wrote: »

you know what i dont believe a single word you have written ,. i am not coming out trying to deny you the right to live where you live , its your choice if you chose to live in an urban location . you dont have the right to try and deny people the right live in one off houses if they want too , its not your problem just concentrate on your urban issues leave rural issues to people who live in the rural areas ,your attitude is typical urban green .

hahahah. "typical urban green"

I'm from *rural* Donegal. I'm a paid up member of LABOUR. I wouldn't piss on a Green if they were on fire.

I have every right to try and protect the country from being destroyed, and selfish one off builds are one thing which is destroying it.

Even when we were mostly a rural based population, people didn't live in isolated one off houses.

danbohan · 25-11-2010 2:51pm

MYOB wrote: »

hahahah. "typical urban green"

I'm from *rural* Donegal. I'm a paid up member of LABOUR. I wouldn't piss on a Green if they were on fire.

I have every right to try and protect the country from being destroyed, and selfish one off builds are one thing which is destroying it.

Even when we were mostly a rural based population, people didn't live in isolated one off houses.

no you dont , you have chosen not to live in the countryside therefore you should not have any input into what goes on in it . just as rural dwellers should not be telling urban dwellers where to park etc ,now if you choose to come back and live in lovely donegal and find a nice site for your mcmansion then you can have your input until then live up to your name and MYOB

dubhthach · 25-11-2010 3:01pm

danbohan wrote: »

no you dont , you have chosen not to live in the countryside therefore you should not have any input into what goes on in it

By that logic taxmoney raised in Urban areas (the vast majority of all tax-income) should only be spent in Urban areas.

L1011 · 25-11-2010 4:44pm

danbohan wrote: »

no you dont , you have chosen not to live in the countryside therefore you should not have any input into what goes on in it . just as rural dwellers should not be telling urban dwellers where to park etc ,now if you choose to come back and live in lovely donegal and find a nice site for your mcmansion then you can have your input until then live up to your name and MYOB

If you return all the financial "input" your rural area has had from my tax money to my urban area, and get all your neighbours to do the same; I'll stop looking for input.

In the interim, you're a selfish drain on the state, destroying the countryside and the fact that you're reduced to accusing "jealousy" shows you KNOW this.

Amtmann · 25-11-2010 5:12pm

To be pedantic: "jealousy" refers specifically to envy within romantic contexts. "Envy" refers to everything else. So I don't think MYOB is truly jealous of you, danbohan

That said, I don't think selfishness comes into it. I think it's more a case of chronic ignorance. Most one-off housing owners lack the kind of education or information necessary to enable them to appreciate the wider ramifications of one-off housing.

antoobrien · 25-11-2010 5:23pm

dubhthach wrote: »

Part of the issue with Loch Corrib is due to the large number of one off housing in it's catchment area

Not to mention Moycullen, Oughterard and Moycullen's sewage draining into it.

My point about the water system in Galway is that it's reasonably regularly infected with something (not just crypto). And lets throw the lead pipes in Mervue (where I grew up incidentally) into the mix. What was published at the time was the 'fix' for the crypto caused the lead to be stripped from the pipes.

Utter rubbish, the system (much like Dublin's) isn't capable of handling it and these problems are the result.

I'm currently working in Dublin and I refuse to use tap water unless it's been filtered becuase it tastes funny, but i'm from Galway so I probably don't know what water is supposed to taste like.

If I ever have children I'll be looking to ensure they get the best quality of life and that is in my experience is not in a town.

antoobrien · 25-11-2010 5:39pm

Furet wrote: »

Most one-off housing owners lack the kind of education or information necessary to enable them to appreciate the wider ramifications of one-off housing.

At the risk of being crass take a look at the state of the poorest areas of the 4 major cities in Ireland and tell me if the standard of education is any better than those that live in one-off housing. Or if they're there because they are enlightened about the ramifications of one off housing.

There's an anti one off housing bias in this country that has absolutely nothing to do with planning, for one simple reason: we are unable can't plan anything (see Knocknacara in Galway) and are inconsistent in our planning approach. One example of this is refusal of planning permission on land for reason of inadequate drainage, when the site next door was just given PP. It seems to depend on who you get and how much work they have to (far easier to reject without having to go to s site, god forbid a council engineer leaves their office).

We are also rotten to the core. It shows up in very different ways, not all of them dishonest (or with dishonest intentions) from nepotism and cronyism to bad attitudes and total inability to be consistent. The worst thing about it is hearing one council official tell a friend who fits all the council defined criteria: 'You will never get planning permission for a house while i work here'.

Amtmann · 25-11-2010 6:07pm

antoobrien wrote: »

At the risk of being crass take a look at the state of the poorest areas of the 4 major cities in Ireland and tell me if the standard of education is any better than those that live in one-off housing. Or if they're there because they are enlightened about the ramifications of one off housing

Don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying they're uneducated in general. I am saying they don't have the necessary knowledge of planning, economic geography, infrastructural provision, and environmental awareness. The vast majority of Irish people don't either, whether they live in towns, cities, villages or one-offs.
Without an understanding of these issues, people are ignorant of them, and, because of that ignorance, I wouldn't call someone 'selfish' because he wants to live in a one-off house. I'd just call him under-educated when it comes to housing and planning.

Pete_Cavan · 25-11-2010 8:39pm

danbohan wrote: »

now just because you lack the ability either financially or otherwise to live in a one off house /mansion does not mean you are entitled to knock it for everybody who wants too

You would lack the ability financially to live in a one off house if you had to cover the full costs of doing so and did not have the cost subsidies by taxes generated in urban areas.

danbohan wrote: »

no you dont , you have chosen not to live in the countryside therefore you should not have any input into what goes on in it .

If he is paying for you to live there then yes, he should have an input into what goes on in rural areas.

Empire o de Sun · 25-11-2010 9:03pm

"Sure it's just one house, it won't make a difference"

well some roads are essentially just long suburbs with no footpaths. There are no fields left fronting the roads.

One-off houses: Good or Bad?

Comments