RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

Actually The BBC have used SKY for backup in the past in the channel Islands.

Off topic, but i think there is some discussion about trying to use ITVHD via satellite for Channel Island digital switchover, as Channel TV don't have resources.

Back on topic now chaps!

Maybe I'm too cynical but surely anyone who currently gets poor analogue and doubtful DTT are already using $ky. Given a choice of paying several hundred Euro for another box to get RTE many people will just say "thanks but I'l stick with what works for me now". People hate change in any form, even if it saves them money in the longer term.

marclt wrote: »

I think what we need to know now, is:

1) What analogue transmitters will be decomissioned by RTE
2) What new digital transmitters will be commissioned
3) How many viewers will rely on the new satellite service

1) ALL of them. Likely phased by area, Ryan claims "by 31st Dec 2012". I suspect starting then

EVERY SINGLE ANALOGUE TV Transmission is supposed to be gone by end of 2012!

[EDIT]
2) Somewhere around 51. That gives about 95% to 98% (population?) coverage according to RTE, 99% coverage would need over 140 transmitters or more. Some very small.
SEE https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/7609/120372.doc

3) The 2% to 7% that would either get no DTT or need very big expensive aerial for DTT. I don't think many of those would have UPC or be able to get UPC. UPC & Sky together have almost 80% of households. So we don't know how many people with no DTT have no Sky.

Anyhow the state and RTE have to ensure EVERYONE can get all the Digital TV & Radio without subscription. So it's irrelevant in one sense how many have Sky/UPC.

I rather suspect 10% could need the sat service. It also happens to cover all of N.I. with larger dish..

I'd expect some Freesat/UK FTA viewers to go Saorsat. Maybe a high percentage as a dish can be on a wall or near ground level. Fitting an aerial needs roof ladders, lashing kits etc. My Daughter has no RTE in Limerick City as it would cost a lot for a TV aerial to be mounted. 3 story houses block Woodcock hill. Her FTA uK TV is €66 sat system from B&Q on 4ft /1.2m pole about 20m from house at back of garden under a tree. She would need a new HD box in house and €20 diseqc switch with small Ka dish+ LNB on existing pole under tree. Then she'd get UK HD and Soarsat.

So by end 2013 (one year after analogue switch off) I'd expect 10% to 15% of households using Saorsat, though maybe only half would really have no DTT coverage (5%)

marclt wrote: »

I still think it is outrageous that in some areas people will have to shell out 250euro for a sat installation, whereas others will just have to plug in a box for DTT. Yes, there is a cost associated - but by the time this gets going people will be able to source cheaper STBs for DTT.

I rather suspect if you have RTE analogue and not getting DTT ever, there will be an install subsidy or even free install.

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

Having looked at this thread for 24 hours I am increasingly convinced its vapourware:

a) The target market is too small: 5-7% of Irish TVHH.

b) The technology is untried and untested and cannot be scaled down in a bespoke manner to the Irish market. Rain fade has always been a big issue with Ka band.

c) The logistics of integration with Freesat are highly problematic and VERY messy for the consumer.

d) It naively assumes zero competitive dynamics. Sky will whack them with a super counter offer to RTE and the Government. They are past masters at this. Just look at their counterstrike to BTVision's offer of Sky Sports in the UK begun today : not for the faint hearted or the commercially stupid.

e) As with everything technological in Ireland (see DTT passim) this will be debated endlessly for another decade.

f) Of course RTE may be hoping that Sky will come back with a FTV counteroffer which will kill this dead. That is probably RTE's hope.

What I'd like to see is an NPV calculation which included a) Risk evaluation b) addressable market c) project set-up costs d) competitive dynamics analysis e)technology cost appraisal.

PREDICTION: This is not going to happen but it will be discussed ad nauseam.

...............................
Just like to address some of the points you made.

A) Target markets is for likes of SKY, UPC and who ever else is looking to increase their market share of monthly subscribers.
These solutions wether it be the combo box solution ,DTT +free to air or
wether it be 2 satellite solution, is for people who want FREE TV and dont want a monthly subscription.Near a 100% of the country will have the choice
of either of these ways of getting free TV.

From what WATTY and people on this Thread have been saying , this 2 sat solution has been working for some time in the states and is well tried and tested, I think it rains over there as well.

C) As someone who has been installing aerials and FTA satellite for many years , I dont get you on this one, If someone wants FTA, they ring someone
like me up , who then in turn comes up with a solution for FTA that suits there needs. ie , A person has SKY+ and want to go FTA ,with this new FTA system we can offer them a FTA HD + box ,put up another small dish or the Wave frontier dish that WATTY was suggesting and give them all the RTE'S and all the english satellite channels in the one box and the ability to record through the hard drive. If people have to change their freesat box big deal , that will be up to them.

D) This solution is costing 1.5 million a year , are you suggesting that SKY could buy off RTE and the GOVERMENT in order so people will have to keep paying SKY 300 euro + a year , when that 500 million a year SKY makes leaves this country. I dont think so.

E) Well the satellite has'nt launched yet so you could be right on that one.

F)This solution is only costing RTE 1.5 million a year and gives RTE a real independence from commercial operaters which they would never of had previously. Cant see them throwing that away . RTE are a public broadcaster.

G)Its only costing RTE 1.5 million a year .What i would like to see is RTE going a head with this and let the public decide.

IM getting phone calls already about it and they have'nt even launched the
satellite.HOW NAIVE IS THAT.

There is not capacity on 28.2 for full post ASO IrishTV service. For once I have to disagree, this is nothing to do with negotiating with Sky. FTV card schemes are a bad idea. Read the ex. Director General BBC speech as to why BBC was leaving the FTV scheme and only ever intended to be in it short term.

Why should Ireland be practically the only EU country without their own Sat service? If there was no alternative and Sky offered an affordable FTV scheme I'd agree. If the Launch fails, RTE may have to buy 15,000 to 25,000 Sky subs as a last resort. I can't see how that would be less than €2M p.a. and that would be missing nearly half the content.

I imagine RTE will use the Kasat to feed some isolated TX sites. €1.5M for 9 TV & 12 Radio is cheap. 28.2E raw carriage prices even without encryption and EPG can't compete.

It seems RTE is only going to do 51 DTT sites.

Limerik/Dublin is about 52/ 53 deg north;
Satellite elevations 22.5 for Sky, 29 for kasat

Tromso in Norway is 70 deg North. Elevation to Satellite Thor is only 11 degrees.

Satellite reception even NOT in a Fjord is very challenging in much of Norway. Below 12 degrees elevation building and ground noise is an issue apart from getting a view of sky.

Hardly any rural houses in Ireland are shadowed from 29 degree Elevation satellite.

watty wrote: »

Limerik/Dublin is about 52/ 53 deg north;
Satellite elevations 22.5 for Sky, 29 for kasat

Tromso in Norway is 70 deg North. Elevation to Satellite Thor is only 11 degrees.

Satellite reception even NOT in a Fjord is very challenging in much of Norway. Below 12 degrees elevation building and ground noise is an issue apart from getting a view of sky.

Yes i was up in the very far north of Finland and i remember being amazed at the satellite dishes near enough looking into the ground, due to the offset!!!!

Sponge Bob wrote: »

There are households in a satellite shadow (they live on the north side of a hill or mountain), what about them ??

There are housholds in a 9e satellite/tree shadow who can get 28e....and vice versa, what about them ??

You will never be able to cover everyone, but at least with sat backup, you'll be pretty damn close. And considering some of the lengths I've seen people go to to get even snowy VHF reception of RTÉ, I reckon trees will be the least of their concerns.

Where there's a will ...

Who thought of the name "Saorsat"? Was it Michael Collins?

Minstrel27 wrote: »

That really did make me laugh. Why put a dish on the top of a telegraph pole?

I think it looks amazing and not difficult at all to maintain or readjust when the wind knocks out the alignment.

As copa says there is not difference in rights between FTA and non FTA, the rights in Ireland are geographical, you dont need to work in tv3 to know this. The only other rights available are Irish language.

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

None of us can actually know what the rights situation is with 3e (unless someone actually works for tv3) The rights have been bought for the country but for a station that is not free to air. There has never been a case before where a Irish station has gone from paid to free.