Court orders demolition of family home.

cournioni · 01-07-2010 8:57am

It's almost impossible to get planning permission for a house in the countryside these days and is getting worse. I know a couple who looked for planning permission on their family's land which had been in the family for generations and were refused. Fcuking government want everybody to live in towns nowadays which is something I would absolutely detest.

moonpurple · 01-07-2010 9:00am

well done court

ricman · 01-07-2010 11:37am

AS i posted already, if you have the money you can buy an old house and extend,or modernise it,get one that has a connection to the esb network .And you can save alot of money if you know basic diy.

seamus · 01-07-2010 11:44am

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

I was making a point about our mentality in our society. About how it's fair and accepted to demolish a building that could be used for the betterment of people in need. Is there not just something grotesque in this notion of "justice" here?

No. The land is his. You can't just move people onto his land.

By the same token, allowing the building to remain and having him pay a fine would open the door for people to avoid the entire planning process and just go ahead and pay a fine at the end.

The building has to be knocked because to do otherwise would make the entire planning process defunct and laughable. It would mean that anyone can build whatever the hell they like provided that they have the money to pay a court fine.

I agree that the planning process in many rural areas is needlessly strict and generally suffers from corruption, cronyism and nimbyism, but that doesn't give anyone the right to ignore it.

Motley Crue · 01-07-2010 11:47am

Sulmac wrote: »

Level of sympathy = zero.

While I do agree that they could not have expected to be treated any other way, it does seem unfair to knock their house down and not at least offer them accommodation elsewhere. But then if they did that a lot of other people would then build houses without planning permission to have them knocked them so they could live somewhere else....I dunno, perhaps he was an idiot to pursue his line of thought.

He obviously built the house himself - I assume any building contractor would ask to see planning permission as a general rule before work is undertaken

There was a scene in the movie 'The General' - I'm not sure how historically accurate it is, where Martin Cahill camps in the ruins of his former estate until the Minister arrives and offers him, begrudgingly, a new flat. Nobody can physically remove him from the land, thus constituting assault, so maybe he should try that and he could get a new property or compensation out of it.

DisForDerek · 01-07-2010 11:49am

The state? Do something useful?

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Take the house away from them absolutely. Then when the state owns it the state can do soemthing usefull with it.

Touché

planetX · 01-07-2010 11:55am

ugliest house I've ever seen - deserves to be demolished with or without the legal problems.

Noreen1 · 01-07-2010 12:23pm

I think the couple were unwise to build a house without planning permission.
Having said that, planning laws in this country are beyond a joke, at this stage.

I know of several people who have been refused permission to build perfectly ordinary, aesthetically suitable houses on land that their families have owned for generations - just because they can be seen from a so-called "scenic route"!!

The fact that tourists are scarcer than hens teeth in the area - not to mention that the average tourist couldn't find their way onto said "scenic route" unless they were led by the hand - seems to have escaped the notice of the planners entirely!

So we now have a situation where people who own farms of land cannot build their residence on said farms (hence have to use cars to travel back and forth to their place of work at lunchtime etc.) - just in case some tourist finds same country lane, and decides to take a stroll at some point in the future........... Bl**dy ridiculous IMHO.
I remember being totally frustrated at the ridiculous planning laws when I built my home 10 years ago. (You have to build where it can't be seen from the main road? White exterior, black rooftiles - I mean, seriously, did they think I was going to paint the thing bright pink, with purple stripes, and maybe throw in a luminous green roof FFS?)

Noreen

ricman · 01-07-2010 12:41pm

Would it not be possible to build a new bungalow behind the old farmhouse ,where it would be hidden from the road , perhaps grow a hedge facing the main road to block the view of any wandering tourist.

bernardo mac · 01-07-2010 12:43pm

But build what you like where you like in Co.Wexford. and County Council leads by example

meditraitor · 01-07-2010 12:51pm

If I am reading this right,

the guy applied for planning permission to build a house on his own land and was refused (bit harsh) but then proceeds to build a house even after planning refusal (dumb) and not only does he build it but he builds one twice the size of the original application (arrogant/petulant).

2c
The planning laws are an ass but some people are even bigger asses,

mikemac · 01-07-2010 1:00pm

There is a lot of disparity between councils.

Tipperary North are incredibly strict about one off housing. People own land for generations and they can't get permission for a site for a son or daughter.
If you want to build overlooking Lough Derg then forget about it, it's on a scenic route, Lough Derg Way. Well you can try but it's as good as throwing away your application fee

Cross the Shannon to Co. Clare and it's the very definition of bungalow blitz and bad planning!

Why the difference?

The solution is there somewhere in the middle but no county is perfect.

Tipp North have a development plan and they want people in estates in the nearest town where it's easier for them to provide services.
Fair enough but sometimes it's taken too far, I can't speak for Meath where this case happened

Noreen1 · 01-07-2010 1:14pm

ricman wrote: »

Would it not be possible to build a new bungalow behind the old farmhouse ,where it would be hidden from the road , perhaps grow a hedge facing the main road to block the view of any wandering tourist.

Nope! Because then it could be seen from the main road (about two miles away, as the crow flies!). God forbid that any tourist should get the idea that anyone actually lives in rural Ireland - unless they live in thatched cottages, and dress like leprechauns, that is. Planning policy now appears to be geared toward forcing people to live on housing estates, unfortunate as that may be.

Noreen

Butch Cassidy · 02-07-2010 12:56am

Motley Crue wrote: »

There was a scene in the movie 'The General' - I'm not sure how historically accurate it is, where Martin Cahill camps in the ruins of his former estate until the Minister arrives and offers him, begrudgingly, a new flat. Nobody can physically remove him from the land, thus constituting assault, so maybe he should try that and he could get a new property or compensation out of it.

A family in Loughlinstown was evicted by the council there with the help of the riot police. The full power of the state is used when it suits them. When the Johnny Ronans of this world how a few hundred million then it's our problem of course. No chance of the likes of him being dealth with.

Cahill's story is fairly standard as far as I know where someone wants to hold out for better acommodation.

reprazant · 02-07-2010 9:10am

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

A family in Loughlinstown was evicted by the council there with the help of the riot police. The full power of the state is used when it suits them. When the Johnny Ronans of this world how a few hundred million then it's our problem of course. No chance of the likes of him being dealth with.

Cahill's story is fairly standard as far as I know where someone wants to hold out for better acommodation.

The family in Loughlinstown were evicted because they owed over €10,000 in rent arrears to the council.

I have no sympathy for them either. Their rent was €100 a week & there was 4 adults living in the house.

How the hell do you work up that amount in arrears?

Kimono-Girl · 02-07-2010 9:20am

cournioni wrote: »

It's almost impossible to get planning permission for a house in the countryside these days and is getting worse. I know a couple who looked for planning permission on their family's land which had been in the family for generations and were refused. Fcuking government want everybody to live in towns nowadays which is something I would absolutely detest.

tell me about it :rolleyes: Brother in law has applied 4 times already to build a (singular)house on their land and was refused over nothing each time!!!:mad:

luckily for me id rather live in an apartment in the city then a house in the country!!!

orourkeda · 02-07-2010 9:28am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Sometimes the law can be an ass.

In this case, the defendants were asses.

orourkeda · 02-07-2010 9:31am

reprazant wrote: »

The family in Loughlinstown were evicted because they owed over €10,000 in rent arrears to the council.

I have no sympathy for them either. Their rent was €100 a week & there was 4 adults living in the house.

How the hell do you work up that amount in arrears?

I may be mistaken in this but there was a segment about this case on a radio proramme recently about this exact case where a number of well known public representatives in the area tried to intervene on behalf of the family. Why would they do that for a family of four adults that are 2 years in arrears on their rent

reprazant · 02-07-2010 9:57am

orourkeda wrote: »

I may be mistaken in this but there was a segment about this case on a radio proramme recently about this exact case where a number of well known public representatives in the area tried to intervene on behalf of the family. Why would they do that for a family of four adults that are 2 years in arrears on their rent

To show that they care for the people of the area I guess. Nobody likes to see people get evicted.

But if you manager to that sort of arrears, something has to happen. I mean seriously, how do you manage to work up that sort of arrears and not think that something might happen?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/family-evicted-despite-plea-for-mercy-over-unpaid-rent-2181347.html

Councillor Maria Bailey said her sympathies were with the family but "nobody is evicted lightly".

She said in each case where a person runs up arrears they are given numerous opportunities to pay and the councils seeks to come to some sort of arrangement with them.

More than 4,000 people are on the council's housing waiting list.

The family, which rented the home for €100 a week, had run-up arrears of €12,500 up to last September.

Seamonster · 02-07-2010 10:17am

This is what JP Mansfield has been doing for years and he seems to get away with it, that's what amazes me. He basically builds colleges, apartments, conference centers without planning permission, gets a slap on the wrist, gives the government millions in backhanders and suddenly he has permission....OK, your man built his house without permission and it deserves to be knocked down, even just to send a message out to other people not to try the same, but when politicians mates like Mansfield do it and get away with it, it shows you how corrupt our country is!

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/Naas-hotel-plan-granted-planning.5482413.jp

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25586&start=0

General Zod · 02-07-2010 11:02am

Stinicker wrote: »

This guy clearly pumped alot of money into the economy in the building of this house in vat and other charges.

I'd be willing to wager there was alot of ex-vat work done in the building of this house.

ricman · 02-07-2010 12:03pm

The court could order the esb,water supply turned off first be4 the demolition ,if the wish.This house is an insult to the planning regulations,The court had to respond as it did.

skywalker_208 · 02-07-2010 12:06pm

ricman wrote: »

The court could order the esb,water supply

They likely have their own water supply so they cant

Min · 02-07-2010 12:08pm

It would be terrible waste to now knock the house, we all know it was some power hungry people who refused planning permission, they have the power and they like to exercise it.

They shouldn't have built it but it would be a bigger crime from a moral sense to knock it down.

prinz · 02-07-2010 12:11pm

Min wrote: »

They shouldn't have built it but it would be a bigger crime from a moral sense to knock it down.

On what moral basis?

Dohnny Jepp · 03-07-2010 1:48am

Isnt the general reason for planning permission to be turned down in the country because it ruins the scenary etc. So if this the case leaving it up isnt an option.

Mike 1972 · 03-07-2010 1:57am

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

turned down in the country because it ruins the scenary etc..

This is just one reason.

Water consumption/pollution, traffic, road safety, likely suceptaility to flooding, impact on any future development (e.g. road widening) are some of the others

Butch Cassidy · 03-07-2010 3:18am

reprazant wrote: »

The family in Loughlinstown were evicted because they owed over €10,000 in rent arrears to the council.

I have no sympathy for them either. Their rent was €100 a week & there was 4 adults living in the house.

How the hell do you work up that amount in arrears?

Ann Moore came home from a 12-work shift to find her daughters sitting in the street in their pyjamas. Evicted. You see nothing wrong with that?

She had been paying the council €150 a week with the extra €50 towards the arrears. She has since offered a lump sum of a few grand which the council of course rejected.

Seamonster wrote: »

This is what JP Mansfield has been doing for years and he seems to get away with it, that's what amazes me. He basically builds colleges, apartments, conference centers without planning permission, gets a slap on the wrist, gives the government millions in backhanders and suddenly he has permission....OK, your man built his house without permission and it deserves to be knocked down, even just to send a message out to other people not to try the same, but when politicians mates like Mansfield do it and get away with it, it shows you how corrupt our country is!

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/Naas-hotel-plan-granted-planning.5482413.jp

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25586&start=0

Thank you! Finally someone sees the injustice/imbalance in the law. All citizens held equal before the law? I don't think so.....

starbelgrade · 03-07-2010 3:37am

Seamonster wrote: »

This is what JP Mansfield has been doing for years and he seems to get away with it, that's what amazes me. He basically builds colleges, apartments, conference centers without planning permission, gets a slap on the wrist, gives the government millions in backhanders and suddenly he has permission....OK, your man built his house without permission and it deserves to be knocked down, even just to send a message out to other people not to try the same, but when politicians mates like Mansfield do it and get away with it, it shows you how corrupt our country is!

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/Naas-hotel-plan-granted-planning.5482413.jp

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25586&start=0

Neither of those links show anything to suggest what you are saying has any truth in it. The first link is a newspaper article about a development for which he has been granted planning & the second is posts on a forum about what appears to be rent arrears on a Golf Club. Neither are relevant in any way to this case, or in any way back up what you are saying.

Pdfile · 03-07-2010 5:24am

super_furry wrote: »

Why did he build it when he was refused permission? Staggering arrogance.

most houses on estates built in the last 5 years are illigal thanks to current regulations... but you'll never know this fact unless you bought one of these homes and its in-queue to be knocked down. :pac:

Court orders demolition of family home.

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