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british sas , are they over rated

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    #62
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    Poccington wrote: »
    WicklowRider is an ex member of the PDF.

    The next person to call him a Walt etc. purely because they disagree with him, will be dealt with accordingly.

    Wicklowrider i am delighted You have been supported in the unjustified attacks on You.

    also to add one more point to My previous post,i just don't understand people who whatever their political point of view could not see that in a purely Military manner the release of the hostages from the Iranian Embassy was an extraordinly feat of Statedgy and courage and well...........brilliance!

    I am sure whoever was the leader of the IRA at the time even had a secret sneaking regard for the operation.

    singling out the troop who got tangled in a rope for a short while is just begrudgery of pettiest kind.

    If the Irish Rangers had been put into the same situation and had the same result,We would most likely have a bank holiday to celebrate it!


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    #63
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    Lets not forget the thin line between life and death any rescue operation attempted by troops is,after the Shah of Iran had fallen and was replaced by Ayathollah Khomeni the US faced a terrible dilema and as usual it was its Military who had to pay the price.

    although on a political level the interferance in Iranian internal affairs by the USA Govt was proably not right,The capture of the American Embassy in Tehran by the people who toppled the Shah and the holding hostage of the Embassys staff for 444 days was a cowardly act,and the eventual deciscion to forget negotiating by the then President Jimmy Carter to attempt to rescue the hostges and instead call on his troops ended up in their deaths.
    The Humiliation of America forced the next President of the USA Ronald Reagan to warn diplomatic staff heading oversea's that they would have to accept they are putting themselves in harms way and become quasi Military as America felt it could not be held to randsome and humiliated like that ever again.

    The first video {55 seconds long}is of shortwave radio recordings as the operation went wrong.

    The second video is by the first Western reporter to arriave on the scene of where the plan came to grief.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXWyFHFhimA


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxg6Krggx3I


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    #64
    Wicklowrider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭Wicklowrider


    ynotdu wrote: »
    Wicklowrider i am delighted You have been supported in the unjustified attacks on You.!

    Thanks. Hadn't time until to now to answer.
    ynotdu wrote: »
    whatever their political point of view could not see that in a purely Military manner the release of the hostages from the Iranian Embassy was an extraordinly feat of Statedgy and courage and well...........brilliance!.!

    No political angle from me.. purely detached observations.

    If Usain bolt showed up at your local school field and won the 100m would it impress you? 30 years later, if he was boasting about it wouldn't you think him a pratt? SAS was greatly superior force equipped , trained and experienced compared to the terrorists.Not eactly a fighting force to test the best force the brits could field?
    The embassy raid made great T.V. It was undoubtly a major coup in propaganda even if the raid achieved noble ends.I am amazed that this packaged version, designed for everyman on the street is repeated verbatim now by informed, intelligent and experienced commentators - the spin doctors must be delighted!
    ynotdu wrote: »
    singling out the troop who got tangled in a rope for a short while is just begrudgery of pettiest kind.!

    Come on now - he's a big lad!
    Did the trooper himself ever speak about this incident? I have never read or heard anything he said.

    The point isn't that he was in trouble. The point is that this too was spun.
    If you are hanging upside down I don't think you could cut yourself free. If you are hanging upside down, your legs don't get burned without your head and upper body getting burnt - does this make sense?
    At the time it was reported by eye witnesses that a man was seen dangling from rope and was cut down after the raid. Fair enough - we all know things go wrong. Then, much later the boy's own verson came out.
    Super trooper cuts himself free ( presumably falls aprx 10 feet onto his head) and despite burns, re enters the fray. I suppose its remotely possible but it is not how the incident was reported by Tony Geraghty ( ex para and award winning military and security journalist) and all the creditable press of the time.
    ynotdu wrote: »
    If the Irish Rangers had been put into the same situation and had the same result,We would most likely have a bank holiday to celebrate it!
    I know you are half kidding here but I don't think so.
    The tiny amount that has been published about them seems to suit their ends. Joe public doesn't even know ( or care) about the hostage rescue in Liberia. They put on a good show in Dublin at the 1916 commerations a few years ago. You could tell they didn't take themselves over seriously and they were gas interacting with the kids. Only time I've seen them as a unit.

    Thanks again for views.


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    #65
    Local-womanizer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Local-womanizer


    Regarding the guy hanging and getting burned,I recall seeing a show and I am almost sure he dident free himself,yet it took the whole squad to cut him down and save him.

    He wasnt hanging directly upside down either afaik,rather at an angle with one have of his body hanging over the window and the other half not over the window,hence the burning on his legs.


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    #66
    DylanJM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭DylanJM


    Wicklowrider I'm still struggling to find what point your trying to make about the embassy assault. A hostage situation is a diffucult mission to undertake no matter how badly equipped or trained the terrorists are. It's also difficult no matter which SOF you are. I don't really think there is such a thing as an easy mission when it comes to a situation like that. Could you,maybe, elaborate on why you think the SAS performed badly during the mission? The embassy seige occured during a time where previous experience in missions similar to it was very limited. I think the only similar situation the SAS(well 2 soldiers) were involved in before the embassy was this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_Flight_181#Operation_Feuerzauber_.28Fire_Magic.29

    Re: the trooper tangled.

    From what I've heard on documentaries and read,

    -The tropper was abseiling
    -Got tangled and ended up hanging upside doen
    -Flashbang thrown through a window set curtains on fire
    -His leg got burnt from the fire
    -A trooper above him cut him free and he landed on the balcony
    -He continued with the mission

    I don't think that sounds too unreasonable, I mean, he wasn't going to not continue on, which would have put the success of the mission at stake.

    At the end of the day all the hostages were released alive(EDIT: Actually one died during the assault) after the mission and no SAS were killed. How is that not a success. Of course thigs will never go flawlessly but you can't expect them to either. Despite how the media and eejits like mcnab and Ryan would have you believe, the SAS are NOT supermen and ARE capable of mistakes. However they are some the best trained soldiers around and are doing a fine job over in Afghanistan.


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    #67
    Wicklowrider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭Wicklowrider


    DylanJM wrote: »
    Could you,maybe, elaborate on why you think the SAS performed badly during the mission?

    They didn't perform badly.You caught me dopey before so I'll be careful:)
    I don't think I said they underperformed in embassy,failed or what ever. I struggled to make the point as clearly as possible that it wasn't the mighty battle that has become lore. The terrorists had no plan,scheme of defense or even basic grasp of tactics.Interviews with hostages state at least 2 had hands on head and were sitting down etc.NB I am not interested in defending the terrorists - they asked for trouble and got it.
    DylanJM wrote: »
    Re: the trooper tangled.

    From what I've heard on documentaries and read,

    -The tropper was abseiling
    -Got tangled and ended up hanging upside doen
    -Flashbang thrown through a window set curtains on fire
    -His leg got burnt from the fire
    -A trooper above him cut him free and he landed on the balcony
    -He continued with the mission .

    My contention with this is that this version came out later, wasn't reported by the reputable news at the time etc. If you look at geraghty's account for instance theres simply no mention of either burns nor trooper rejoining battle. I mention geraghty because we know he was a trained soldier and also a respected journalist and writer of objective well researched books on this subject. I mention all this to support my contention that a lot of what is taken as accurate accounts of what went on that day is propoganda at its best.
    DylanJM wrote: »
    At the end of the day all the hostages were released alive after the mission and no SAS were killed. How is that not a success. Of course thigs will never go flawlessly but you can't expect them to either. Despite how the media and eejits like mcnab and Ryan would have you believe, the SAS are NOT supermen and ARE capable of mistakes. However they are some the best trained soldiers around and are doing a fine job over in Afghanistan.
    Hostages rescued - respect that, if I'd been a hostage I'd probably be kissing their boots. Agree f/ups happen. Ha -Ha disagree about mcnab,ryan etc - you got to hand it to 'em, they're making a few bob.:)
    Afghanistan?
    " Serious injuries have left more than 70 unable to fight, while 12 have been killed. It means the forces have lost about a sixth of their full combat capacity." Sunday Times article,March 7, 2010. NB - I think this is refferring to SBS and SAS casualties.
    http://info-wars.org/2010/03/07/sas-in-afghanistan-suffers-worst-losses-for-60-years/
    I have very little info on afghanistan and honestly don't know where everyone else gets theirs from. I really can't comment on action there - but I suspect its hell.


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    #68
    DylanJM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭DylanJM


    My contention with this is that this version came out later, wasn't reported by the reputable news

    I'm guessing it happened at the back of the embassy, due to there being no photos or videos of a tangled trooper. The SAS wouldn't have commented on the operation afterwords either. Just throwing out some possible emplanations there. I can't remember which docu I heard about it in, but I'm pretty sure it was a SAS tropper involved in the assault who was talking about the tangled tropper. I know you have to take some stuff with a pinch of salt but it seemed genuine enough.

    I will concede there is a lot of propaganda BS out there regarding the SAS though.


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    #69
    elius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭elius


    Wicklowrider wrote: »
    " Serious injuries have left more than 70 unable to fight, while 12 have been killed. It means the forces have lost about a sixth of their full combat capacity." Sunday Times article,March 7, 2010. NB - I think this is refferring to SBS and SAS casualties.
    http://info-wars.org/2010/03/07/sas-in-afghanistan-suffers-worst-losses-for-60-years/
    I have very little info on afghanistan and honestly don't know where everyone else gets theirs from. I really can't comment on action there - but I suspect its hell.


    Thats since 2001 and they have been in battle the hole time 12 dead and 70 injured to march 2010 is to be honest fairly good going.

    If your told your good at something you 9 times out of 10 get a great deal of satisfaction out of it. At time's i reckon it a mental way of spurring the sas/sbs on mentally it builds them up in confidence.

    If your repeatedly told your **** then eventually the head drops.


    To be honest there's no way in judging are they overated as where only looking at stories in the public media. Stories blown out to give the public the conception that there **** hot. Id rather read about some of the operations that the public have yet to hear of.

    I no for shore if i was going into battle id rather them buy my side any day.


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    #70
    troubleshooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭troubleshooter


    Wicklow lowrider the guy who got tangled and burned absailing was a guy called Staff Sgt 'Tak' Takavesi one of the SASs most experienced troopers, he was also with the SAS in Oman when 9 of them held of 300 communist insurgents, by coincidence he was also in the unit that was arrested in the republic in 77 across the border. Absailing down a building in 50lbs of Black kit with a respirator, an MP5 etc, at speed is very different then doing it as a civilian. The team could not just cut him down straight away because he would have landed on his head. Just like you did not at first comprehend the concept of sustained fire in a linerar ambush, perhaps you may may now comprehend the complications of such an operation, it surprises me that you dont, being a former NCO etc. The "students" by the way had murdered a hostage one hour before and were armed with various weapons and grenades.


    http://www.britains-smallwars.com/swbooks/the%20regiment/extract_siege.html

    At the back Blue Team couldn't blow in the ground-floor doors for fear of injuring Staff-Sergeant 'Tak' Takavesi who had stuck on his rope five metres down and was now dangling above them. 'Tak' roared to the men still on the roof to cut him down. The rest of his team landed on the second-floor balcony. They demolished the windows with sledgehammers and lobbed flashbangs into the room. A second later they were inside. Their grenades had set the curtains ablaze and as the fire licked upwards, it enveloped the hanging team-leader's legs. 'Tak' kicked frantically outwards to avoid being roasted alive.


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    #71
    Norwayviking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Norwayviking


    kevinhalvey wrote: »
    ive been doing a good bit of re-search about all different special forces such as german ksk irish rangers delta force polish Polskie Jednostki Specjalne australian sasr etc

    as far as i have made out they all use very similar or the same tactics in hostage rescue . but out of them all the sas are always most regarded

    in my opinion they are overrated because all the other special forces are just as elite but underestimated i personally think its because the eng sas are the only ones who have been deployed into major hostage negoiations

    i would like to hear other peoples opinions on them and others

    SAS are training with ~FSK Norwegian special forces,and not all the training are similar.
    Just an example
    Parachute landings on oil platforms in the North Sea
    Testimony in court and in the media, indicates that training previously included parachute landings on helicopter landing-pads related to oil platforms.The SAS(special forces from Britain) considered such as suicide missions.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsvarets_Spesialkommando_(FSK)

    But when it comes to experience i dont think you will find any better then SAS.
    Not even the US navy seals will come close in my opinion.
    The only difference is that the us navy seals are better equipped for their missions with all the newest technology.
    But i guess all special forces are based on their own countries defence forces and traning,so alot to do with the landscape,climate,economy,survival,weapons and special ops training.
    And offcourse branches of navy,army,airforce.


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    #72
    Wicklowrider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭Wicklowrider


    troubleshooter wrote: »
    Wicklow lowrider the guy who got tangled and burned absailing was a guy called Staff Sgt 'Tak' Takavesi one of the SASs most experienced troopers, he was also with the SAS in Oman when 9 of them held of 300 communist insurgents, by coincidence he was also in the unit that was arrested in the republic in 77 across the border. Absailing down a building in 50lbs of Black kit with a respirator, an MP5 etc, at speed is very different then doing it as a civilian. The team could not just cut him down straight away because he would have landed on his head. Just like you did not at first comprehend the concept of sustained fire in a linerar ambush, perhaps you may may now comprehend the complications of such an operation, it surprises me that you dont, being a former NCO etc. The "students" by the way had murdered a hostage one hour before and were armed with various weapons and grenades.


    http://www.britains-smallwars.com/swbooks/the%20regiment/extract_siege.html

    At the back Blue Team couldn't blow in the ground-floor doors for fear of injuring Staff-Sergeant 'Tak' Takavesi who had stuck on his rope five metres down and was now dangling above them. 'Tak' roared to the men still on the roof to cut him down. The rest of his team landed on the second-floor balcony. They demolished the windows with sledgehammers and lobbed flashbangs into the room. A second later they were inside. Their grenades had set the curtains ablaze and as the fire licked upwards, it enveloped the hanging team-leader's legs. 'Tak' kicked frantically outwards to avoid being roasted alive.
    Troublemaker, I like the way you add a snide bit to my user name each time - it shows you care. You getting emotional about this stuff?:D

    I don't know where you the idea that I don't understand ambush - it isn't complicated. I think the fact that I pointed out that SAS trigger happy lunatics shot innocent people that particular night upset you. I honestly believe the sas and provos would be stupid enough to kill each other till kingdom come if someone didn't reign both sides in. We seem to agree on what happened to the Tak chap so I'll leave that. Why are you challenging me on the terrorists? I made it clear as I could that I felt they got what they deserved.
    Came across the small wars website in checking stuff for this thread - who are the guys behind it are they credible?
    thanks
    Wicklow low low low diet version rider


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    #73
    Wicklowrider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭Wicklowrider


    elius wrote: »
    Thats since 2001 and they have been in battle the hole time 12 dead and 70 injured to march 2010 is to be honest fairly good going.

    If your told your good at something you 9 times out of 10 get a great deal of satisfaction out of it. At time's i reckon it a mental way of spurring the sas/sbs on mentally it builds them up in confidence.

    If your repeatedly told your **** then eventually the head drops.


    To be honest there's no way in judging are they overated as where only looking at stories in the public media. Stories blown out to give the public the conception that there **** hot. Id rather read about some of the operations that the public have yet to hear of.

    I no for shore if i was going into battle id rather them buy my side any day.
    Agree with you on all of this. Some sobering quotes in that article. I've said it before - you will never hear me gloating over casualties.


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    #74
    elius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭elius


    Wicklowrider wrote: »
    Agree with you on all of this. Some sobering quotes in that article. I've said it before - you will never hear me gloating over casualties.

    Though for the record. 12 dead and 70 injured is still to many. I just think given the environment there in its a testament to how good and well trained they are.


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    #75
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    DylanJM wrote: »
    I'm guessing it happened at the back of the embassy, due to there being no photos or videos of a tangled trooper. The SAS wouldn't have commented on the operation afterwords either. Just throwing out some possible emplanations there. I can't remember which docu I heard about it in, but I'm pretty sure it was a SAS tropper involved in the assault who was talking about the tangled tropper. I know you have to take some stuff with a pinch of salt but it seemed genuine enough.

    I will concede there is a lot of propaganda BS out there regarding the SAS though.

    Just a quick jump in,There was Camera's at the back of the Embassy.

    I think it was ITN,they hired a room from flats that could see the back of the Embassy.The footage was not shown live and ITN{if i am right that it was ITN} were heavily criticised when they released it.
    It showed troops being dropped from helicopters by rope but possibly because it was not live the Soldier who got tangled never appeared in the versions i have seen,When i can i will try to find the film of the operation from those angles!


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    #76
    catthinkin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭catthinkin


    if they wernt any good they wouldnt still be around


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    #77
    DylanJM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭DylanJM


    It showed troops being dropped from helicopters by rope

    There were no helos involved in getting troops onto the embassy.

    Maybe your confusing it with this SBS vid http://www.eliteukforces.info/video/sbs-3.php


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    #78
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    DylanJM wrote: »
    There were no helos involved in getting troops onto the embassy.

    Maybe your confusing it with this SBS vid http://www.eliteukforces.info/video/sbs-3.php

    Thanks for that DylanJM and the video below reinforces Your point.
    It also shows that troops did drop by rope but as You say not by helicopter and shows that there were Camera's at the back of the Embassy.

    I waded through loads of video's but could not find any of the footage taken{around the back during the actual operation{what i did find was a load of bull**** either home made video.s or extracts from Jingoistic crowing documentries that nobody here seems to like!}

    I was not even born when this Siege happened,but i inherited My fathers tapes,he had a love of modern history and recorded many dramatic events,most of the tapes are decayed now having been stored near magnetic speakers,i am guessing it was on one of those tapes i saw it?

    Some of his Tales i have learned were erm very tall ones!:)
    He claimed the Embassy World snooker Championship finals were interrupted by the live coverage of the rescue.I know i had to 'unlearn' many of his versions of modern history!:)

    again sorry OP,there are video's comparing say Delta force to the SAS,all around Youtube but they are either rubbish by amateurs, or bigoted one sided garbage by the likes of Fox news.none i found worthy of posting!



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    #79
    DylanJM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭DylanJM


    It also shows that troops did drop by rope but as You say not by helicopter and shows that there were Camera's at the back of the Embassy.

    That video is NOT of the embassy seige and therefore doesn't show anything regarding cameras etc. at the iranian embassy. It's of the Kuwaiti embassy during desert storm. I was just seeing,maybe, if that was the video you saw and mistook it for the Iranian embassy. Sorry for the misunderstanding, just me trying to clear things up but ,as usual, making even worse :D


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    #80
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    DylanJM wrote: »
    That video is NOT of the embassy seige and therefore doesn't show anything regarding cameras etc. at the iranian embassy. It's of the Kuwaiti embassy during desert storm. I was just seeing,maybe, if that was the video you saw and mistook it for the Iranian embassy. Sorry for the misunderstanding, just me trying to clear things up but ,as usual, making even worse :D

    Lol,No You did,nt confuse the issue,I did realise Your clip was of a diffrient operation.

    I am talking about the History Channel video i posted that for a short few moments shows camera angles behind the Embassy:)

    Cheers!


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    #81
    DylanJM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭DylanJM


    Oh right sorry. Got mixed up,didn't know you were refering to your video and not mine haha.


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    #82
    troubleshooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭troubleshooter


    Heres a good one, SBS and possibly SAS boat troop boarding a hovering Chinook in a rigid raider.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9pA4I606No&feature=related

    I was down in Dorset a few weeks ago, near where the Royal Marines are based, about a mile of the coast a black hurcules (presumably part of the RAF SOF sqdn dropped four parachutists at low level, which were picked by a rigid raiders, every half hour this countinued for the afternoon, but it was a normal looking hurcules after that). This is quite a normal sight down that way, there were yachts and other craft in the area.

    The SBS also train with these guys alot in Scotland. MEIKTILA COMMANDO FORWARD OBSERVATION BATTERY Royal Artillery, who are SAS trained but not badged.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W--ax_IxTHA


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    #83
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    Finally a video of the SAS member who got tangled at the back of the Embassy.You only have to watch the first minute{These things wreck My head until i get some confirmation:)}
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66tmvFutBfs&NR=1


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    #84
    troubleshooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭troubleshooter


    Trying to get away from the SAS dont know how to carry out an ambush posts which due to the nature of the net making one respond in the opposite way. I dont know how any SOF CRW unit would deal with simple but hidden booby traps? Ie Fishing wire/tape/grenades across doorways/stairwells/windows etc, in the dark, in respirators, in smoke/cs gas etc? Remember they are operating at speed. Or even determined terrorists holding key positions on stairwells etc without taking losses.

    If there is one point to be raised about the above seige, its that ladders may have done the job more simply and effectivly then absailing, in recent times SOF units have vehicles with ladders attached for gaining fast entry.

    Hard to believe it was 30 yrs ago.


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    #85
    elius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭elius


    ynotdu wrote: »
    Finally a video of the SAS member who got tangled at the back of the Embassy.You only have to watch the first minute{These things wreck My head until i get some confirmation:)}
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66tmvFutBfs&NR=1


    I cant see how this makes the SAS any better or worse.

    If your trying to make them look bad its a pretty poor excuse. No one know's the ins and outs as to why or how he got tangled up in the rope whats to say it wasn't faulty equipment.

    Infact its stupid and ignorant to bring the abilty of the SAS down just because one man got tangled in a rope. The same man who was awarded the the Distinguished Conduct Medal some years previous after the events of Oman


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    #86
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    elius wrote: »
    I cant see how this makes the SAS any better or worse.

    If your trying to make them look bad its a pretty poor excuse. No one know's the ins and outs as to why or how he got tangled up in the rope whats to say it wasn't faulty equipment.

    Infact its stupid and ignorant to bring the abilty of the SAS down just because one man got tangled in a rope. The same man who was awarded the the Distinguished Conduct Medal some years previous after the events of Oman

    elius Would You please go to the trouble of reading My previous posts before passing comments like that!

    You might even apologise if You do!


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    #87
    elius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭elius


    ynotdu wrote: »
    elius Would You please go to the trouble of reading My previous posts before passing comments like that!

    You might even apologise if You do!


    ynotdu I wasn't getting at you personally. I was referring to previous comments in the thread. Apologies if you feel it was directed at you. I just happened to quote your thread. Apologies again.


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    #88
    troubleshooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭troubleshooter


    Going back to ambushes, SAS/Det ambushes could be very devious, they simply used PIRA tactics against them. Example there was a UDR part time soldier, who also drove a school bus, Special branch and army intel. knew he was being targetted and PIRA intel gathered on his movements, the SAS simply replaced him with an SAS trooper, drove the bus to a local republican village and pretended it had a flat tyre, local republican dickers(intel. gatherers) noticed this, after 90 mins a PIRA ASU turned up to kill him, but he was simply the bait for an SAS ambush. The PIRA ASU members were shot dead, such operations devistated PIRA moral and they needed spectaculars to sustain it.

    In terms of green ops theres a site out there with some of the jungle warfare advanced fieldcraft and ambushes the SAS pioneered in the 50s in Malaya, and used by the Aussie SAS in Vietnam to devisting effect, they used to get dropped by helo on 10 day patrols in enemy territory, some are very complex and involve baiting the enemy then doubling, even trebling back with loops to enfilade. No coincidence the Aussie and NZ SAS had the best record of kills in Vietnam. Some of the best SAS jungle warfare instructors are Fijians, previously Malayan scouts who joined the regiment.


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    #89
    Wicklowrider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭Wicklowrider


    elius wrote: »
    ynotdu I wasn't getting at you personally. I was referring to previous comments in the thread. Apologies if you feel it was directed at you. I just happened to quote your thread. Apologies again.

    Aimed at me?

    If so please read my post #64

    "The point isn't that he was in trouble. The point is that this too was spun"

    stupid and ignorant? Go easy, it isn't a slagging match.


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    #90
    elius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭elius


    Wicklowrider wrote: »
    ER, re the embassy action - wasn't that the one where a SAS head landed up hanging upside down from his rappelling rope swinging like a pendulum?

    Im sorry if you took my above post to heart but just look at the past record of the man that was hanging upside down from his rappelling rope swinging like a pendulum. Im not into slagging matches and apologies for calling you stupid.

    You also have to look up the records of the us seal teams. They have made some mighty cock up's in there time. Operation Redwing didnt exactly so to plan either


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    #91
    Local-womanizer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Local-womanizer


    On the ladder issue,I think that was raised but some objections were raised aswell ( I'am not sure,I really must watch that Discovery Programme on it again)

    The show was that "SAS,Special Forces Heroes" one,I thought it was a good series to be fair, and the men involved never really bigged themselves up in it to the extent were it was unwatchable.IIRC one of the main issues involved in the Iranian embassy Siege episode was how close the mission was to disaster.


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