Donegal Politics

lineker · 20-06-2010 3:50am #1

just a tread to see your views on the by elections particulary the donegal one and the perspective outcome???

Het-Field · 20-06-2010 11:46pm

Donegal is a regressive, parochial and limited area, where the choices are FF, FG, Sinn Fein, and Independent FF. Labour have consistently polled poorly there, while the Green Party barely gained 1000 votes between the two constituencies in 2007. Democratic Left stood one candidate there in 1992, and in a lifespan of 23 years the Progressive Democrats never set foot in Donegal.

Local elections are even worse. Again, they are dominated by FF, FG and the Blaney family. Lab have two Councellors, while the PDs stood two candidates for local seats over the course of their life. I dont believe Democratic Left ever stood a local candidate there, while the Greens had token representation there in 2004, and were soundly beaten.

Referenda have also seen Donegal maintain a very conservative stance. Three of the last EU Referenda have been rejected, Divorce was overwhelmingly rejected, while the entire Abortion platform was rejected in 1992, while the "conservative stance" in the 2002 "Right To Life" referendum was taken by the people of Donegal.

The quailty of representative is poor. Coughlan is a sham, McDaid is a loose cannon, while Blaney is a man beholding to "local politics",

It will either be another FFer, or Sinner which will be elected in the by-election. As such, I will not be taking much of an interest on polling day.

oppenheimer1 · 21-06-2010 12:32am

Het-Field wrote: »

Donegal is a regressive, parochial and limited area, where the choices are FF, FG, Sinn Fein, and Independent FF. Labour have consistently polled poorly there, while the Green Party barely gained 1000 votes between the two constituencies in 2007. Democratic Left stood one candidate there in 1992, and in a lifespan of 23 years the Progressive Democrats never set foot in Donegal.

Local elections are even worse. Again, they are dominated by FF, FG and the Blaney family. Lab have two Councellors, while the PDs stood two candidates for local seats over the course of their life. I dont believe Democratic Left ever stood a local candidate there, while the Greens had token representation there in 2004, and were soundly beaten.

Referenda have also seen Donegal maintain a very conservative stance. Three of the last EU Referenda have been rejected, Divorce was overwhelmingly rejected, while the entire Abortion platform was rejected in 1992, while the "conservative stance" in the 2002 "Right To Life" referendum was taken by the people of Donegal.

The quailty of representative is poor. Coughlan is a sham, McDaid is a loose cannon, while Blaney is a man beholding to "local politics",

It will either be another FFer, or Sinner which will be elected in the by-election. As such, I will not be taking much of an interest on polling day.

Who are you to say what is regressive or parochial?

Sponge Bob · 21-06-2010 1:24am

And Dana polled well, both times

Het-Field · 21-06-2010 2:01am

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Who are you to say what is regressive or parochial?

The elected representatives are a bunch of ninnys, reformed alcoholics, and splitters. Alternative Parties have been suffocated as clan warfare has triumphed. As a result the voters in Donegal have little alternative by to vote FF or FG. Our country is bad when it comes to parochial politics, but Donegal is the worst.

Pride Fighter · 21-06-2010 4:13am

Het Field, Labour have 3 councillors in Donegal now. Martin Farren, Frank McBrearty Jr and Jimmy Harte.

oppenheimer1 · 21-06-2010 5:03am

Het-Field wrote: »

The elected representatives are a bunch of ninnys, reformed alcoholics, and splitters. Alternative Parties have been suffocated as clan warfare has triumphed. As a result the voters in Donegal have little alternative by to vote FF or FG. Our country is bad when it comes to parochial politics, but Donegal is the worst.

Why single out Donegal? You say its the worst, is every constituency that doesn't elect someone from the Left of the spectrum regressive? I find your remarks quite insulting and I'm not even from Donegal! If the alternative parties produced policies that could be supported by that constituency they would get elected. However your attitude is typical of many here on boards, stereotype those that don't agree with you and pigeon hole and dismiss their opinions. It reflects more on you than anyone else.

ednwireland · 21-06-2010 9:03am

err there wont be a by election

Het-Field · 21-06-2010 12:06pm

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Why single out Donegal? You say its the worst, is every constituency that doesn't elect someone from the Left of the spectrum regressive? I find your remarks quite insulting and I'm not even from Donegal! If the alternative parties produced policies that could be supported by that constituency they would get elected. However your attitude is typical of many here on boards, stereotype those that don't agree with you and pigeon hole and dismiss their opinions. It reflects more on you than anyone else.

Be insulted all you like. Im not a fan of the left in any way shape or form. I have also noted that Sinn Fein pick up a decent vote there, and they are certainly on the left.

However, I find Donegal a very strange beast. As I have said, candidates from other parties stand irregularly or not at all. This is due to massive parochial splits within FF years ago. It gave people an out to vote for FF, without actually voting for FF. This is not good for democracy. What makes it wost is the fact that most of the TDs are the product of dynastic politics.

I would also ask you to consider the following slates of candidates for the local elections. I would like to know whether this is indicitive of a county which offers a wide choice to the voters, or is only offering a choice between tweedle dum, tweedle dummer, and the Shinners.

http://www.electionsireland.org/result.cfm?election=2004L&cons=462
http://www.electionsireland.org/result.cfm?election=2004L&cons=361
http://www.electionsireland.org/result.cfm?election=2004L&cons=361
http://www.electionsireland.org/result.cfm?election=2004L&cons=415

fontanalis · 21-06-2010 2:27pm

nepotism cough nepotism

baalthor · 21-06-2010 6:18pm

Pretty much every constituency in Ireland is FF v FG with Labour as a minor option in a few areas. The PDs were only a force in a small number of constituencies and in some of those the candidates were transferees from FF. And, as has been noted, SF do well in DL despite being quite left wing especially on social issues.

Noreen1 · 21-06-2010 7:03pm

Het-Field wrote: »

It will either be another FFer, or Sinner which will be elected in the by-election. As such, I will not be taking much of an interest on polling day.

Ahem - not if the results of the last local election are any indicator.... FF lost an awful lot of support, if I remember correctly (not before time, either) - and I haven't heard anything that suggests they have become more popular in the last year or so....

AFAIK, most of SF support is among males below the age of 35 (or so I read, somewhere, around the time of the last election) - I'm not sure that that demographic has a high enough percentage to ensure that a candidate would be elected.

I'll be surprised if some, if not most, of the disenchanted, previously super-loyal FF voters don't swing toward Independents, though - others will swing toward Labour or SF, purely because many of them will not vote for FG.

Either way, if the present Government ever have the guts to allow the bye-elections - The results could prove very difficult to predict.:D

Noreen

PomBear · 22-06-2010 2:31am

going by the last election, it's not hard to see who is going to be voted in

lineker · 22-06-2010 3:14am

By now most party's have selected a candidate to stand in the by election(except Fianna Fail but it is widely regarded that Senator Brian O Domhnaill will be selected,or will he??) who can people see as filling the empty seat and why??

PomBear · 22-06-2010 4:22am

Pearse Doherty for me, outstanding politician and public speaker, I think the people of Donegal realise this, also he's a SF Senator and prominent within the party so the SF supporters will come out in droves to support

ednwireland · 22-06-2010 4:57pm

lineker wrote: »

By now most party's have selected a candidate to stand in the by election(except Fianna Fail but it is widely regarded that Senator Brian O Domhnaill will be selected,or will he??) who can people see as filling the empty seat and why??

could you list said candidates? apart from pearse doherty i dont know of any

Noreen1 · 22-06-2010 4:59pm

PomBear wrote: »

going by the last election, it's not hard to see who is going to be voted in

You don't feel that FF lost a lot of support in the local elections?

Results available here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/elections2009/resultspdfs/results0806091.pdf

My own feeling is that FF lost a lot of support in one of their "safe" constituencies. I await the results of the bye-election with interest.
It remains to be seen whether the genuine anger among the voting public will prevent FF holding the bye-election until a more opportune time for them, or whether they will allow people their legal right to representation.

Noreen

PomBear · 22-06-2010 5:51pm

Noreen1 wrote: »

Ahem - not if the results of the last local election are any indicator.... FF lost an awful lot of support, if I remember correctly (not before time, either) - and I haven't heard anything that suggests they have become more popular in the last year or so....

AFAIK, most of SF support is among males below the age of 35 (or so I read, somewhere, around the time of the last election) - I'm not sure that that demographic has a high enough percentage to ensure that a candidate would be elected.

I'll be surprised if some, if not most, of the disenchanted, previously super-loyal FF voters don't swing toward Independents, though - others will swing toward Labour or SF, purely because many of them will not vote for FG.

Either way, if the present Government ever have the guts to allow the bye-elections - The results could prove very difficult to predict.:D

Noreen

Noreen1 wrote: »
You don't feel that FF lost a lot of support in the local elections?

Results available here:
http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/elections2009/resultspdfs/results0806091.pdf
My own feeling is that FF lost a lot of support in one of their "safe" constituencies. I await the results of the bye-election with interest.
It remains to be seen whether the genuine anger among the voting public will prevent FF holding the bye-election until a more opportune time for them, or whether they will allow people their legal right to representation.

Noreen

No, Pearse Doherty was the only one who came remotely within a chance of a seat 3 years ago, has gained much more support, while FF have lost significant support in locals and Donegal voted no to the second Lisbon Treaty referendum.

While you believe that demographic isn't enough to secure a seat, they nearly did last time, the FF candidate will not get all of Coughlans or Gallaghers support in 2007 or even close to it. It's Doherty for the seat, it's a no brainer for me

rightwingdub · 22-06-2010 6:11pm

Lets see Donegal politics,a drunk (McDaid), part of the blaney family dynasty (Niall Blaney), a bimbo as a cabinet minister who became a TD simply because her uncle and fathere were TDS (Mary Coughlan), Joe Mchugh another dynasty politician and then Dinny McGinley who I know little about.

Ah sure as long as they are seen "to be bringing home the bacon" from Dublin they'll always get elected;)

jimmycrackcorm · 22-06-2010 7:22pm

rightwingdub wrote: »

Ah sure as long as they are seen "to be bringing home the bacon" from Dublin they'll always get elected;)

It would be nice to get some bacon.

No point picking out Donegal on it's own when you can have other constituency honors rolls going to Beveryl Flynn, MichaeL Lowry and tweedle dum in Kerry.

Noreen1 · 22-06-2010 7:28pm

PomBear wrote: »

No, Pearse Doherty was the only one who came remotely within a chance of a seat 3 years ago, has gained much more support, while FF have lost significant support in locals and Donegal voted no to the second Lisbon Treaty referendum.

While you believe that demographic isn't enough to secure a seat, they nearly did last time, the FF candidate will not get all of Coughlans or Gallaghers support in 2007 or even close to it. It's Doherty for the seat, it's a no brainer for me

It depends whether the general elections ('97) or the local elections ('99), are a better indicator of possible voting patterns should the bye-election take place, at the end of the day.

I agree that the FF candidate will not get anywhere close to the amount of support that Coughlan and Gallagher did. I would also agree that Pearce Doherty is popular - but so is Brian O'Donnell. To be fair, leaving personal politics aside, they are both hard-working (and I say that as someone who detests FF with a vengeance!)

If you look back over my post, you will find that I said I wasn't sure that the demographic was enough to secure a seat for SF - not that I believe it isn't enough to secure the seat.

I think it's fair to say that the local elections sent shock waves through the established political parties - because in the space of two years, Donegal went from a predictable FF majority, to being completely unpredictable.

Pearce Doherty may well be elected, he is certainly popular, but, on the the other hand, I have to wonder whether there is any significance in the fact that Seamus O Donnell, brother of Brian, running as an Independent, topped the poll in the Glenties Electoral area? What I find very significant there is the fact that Joe Kelly, as the FF candidate - and based in the same geographic area, was not elected. Might that mean that people are disenchanted with FF - but happy with Brian O Donnells performance? Who knows?
What I do know is that if I were a betting person, I wouldn't bet any money on the outcome of the bye-election.:D:D JMO

Noreen

lineker · 22-06-2010 9:01pm

Although Pearse Doherty may be well regarded and well liked in his party reports that I have got from people in his constituency is that he is not a man of the people and rarely stops to speak and hear peoples problems, Its clear to see that Councillor McBrearty is a loose cannon who has his heart in the right place, but would not hack it in Leinster House. It seems that Senator O Domhnaill works day and night for his constituents, having clinics regularly and has setup an office in the twin towns, and he appears to be more active when Senator Doherty seems to have fallen into the trap that many Senators find themselves in. It would be interesting to see if a independant candidate comes to the fore!!!

harpsman · 22-06-2010 9:23pm

1st-nobodys "picking" on donegal over other counties-the question was how do people think the by-election in donegal,in particular, will go.

2nd-that person is not a "reformed" alcoholic.he still drinks.

3rd-re Labour councillors-Frank McBrearty and Jimmy Harte are malcontents who have jumped on the Labour bandwagon out of mutual desperation.

Reckon Pearse Doherty will win the seat and hold it in general election.

rightwingdub · 22-06-2010 10:35pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It would be nice to get some bacon.

No point picking out Donegal on it's own when you can have other constituency honors rolls going to Beveryl Flynn, MichaeL Lowry and tweedle dum in Kerry.

Your absolutely right there are cute hoor politicians right throughout the country, not picking on Donegal in particular but a rural constituency like DSW AND DNE seems the stereotype for a lot of rural constituencies in Ireland.

Who are FG running in DSW?

Pride Fighter · 22-06-2010 11:12pm

Heard a rumour months ago Fianna Fail may row out a celebrity candidate for the Donegal SW by-election. Packie Bonner was the rumour. Its only a rumour now, but it would throw the cat amongst the pigeons.

RATM · 23-06-2010 12:08am

I also heard Pat the Cope wants his wife to run to take his seat and keep it in the family now that Pats off in Europe. Not sure how the party up there feel about it though.

rightwingdub · 23-06-2010 12:09am

RATM wrote: »

I also heard Pat the Cope wants his wife to run to take his seat and keep it in the family now that Pats off in Europe. Not sure how the party up there feel about it though.

Great another dynasty politician if that rumour is true;)

northwest100 · 23-06-2010 2:46am

Donegal isn't an isolated location of corrupt and dynastic politics...

Have a look at any country where you have 2 main political parties.

In the UK, you have Conservative and Labour, in the US you have Democrats and Republicans, in Australia you have Liberal and Labor and of course, Ireland has FF and FG.

There have always been independent candidates who were more suitable for a political position but they always performed poorly in elections ..

Unless you're affiliated with one of the major political parties, you have less chance of being elected, that's the way it's always been.

imho, most voters in Ireland (just as in many other countries) vote for a politician based on superficial characteristics rather than good policies.

Ireland has been run by cronyist corrupt people for decades and i don't see the situation improving anytime soon.

duffflash · 23-06-2010 7:17pm

rightwingdub wrote: »

Great another dynasty politician if that rumour is true;)

I agree with you that in that I’m sick of people voting for candidates just because their daddy was a TD but I think you don’t have to look to far from your own doorstep for dynasty politicians.

ednwireland · 23-06-2010 7:28pm

RATM wrote: »

I also heard Pat the Cope wants his wife to run to take his seat and keep it in the family now that Pats off in Europe. Not sure how the party up there feel about it though.

nooooo

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Heard a rumour months ago Fianna Fail may row out a celebrity candidate for the Donegal SW by-election. Packie Bonner was the rumour. Its only a rumour now, but it would throw the cat amongst the pigeons.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

i despair

rightwingdub · 23-06-2010 9:58pm

northwest100 wrote: »

Donegal isn't an isolated location of corrupt and dynastic politics...

Have a look at any country where you have 2 main political parties.

In the UK, you have Conservative and Labour, in the US you have Democrats and Republicans, in Australia you have Liberal and Labor and of course, Ireland has FF and FG.

There have always been independent candidates who were more suitable for a political position but they always performed poorly in elections ..

Unless you're affiliated with one of the major political parties, you have less chance of being elected, that's the way it's always been.

imho, most voters in Ireland (just as in many other countries) vote for a politician based on superficial characteristics rather than good policies.

Ireland has been run by cronyist corrupt people for decades and i don't see the situation improving anytime soon.

At least in the UK and the US there are ideological differnces between the two major parties, in Ireland we have perhaps the two most unideological parties in the Western world (arguably).

Donegal Politics

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