Referendum(s)

Kevster · 18-06-2010 8:42am #1

This is an intelligent post (I think...) and therefore I don't want any impatient emotional responses.

I got my new passport today and loved seeing the emblem of Ireland on its cover - i.e. the harp. We are the only nation on Earth to have a musical instrument as our national emblem. I am of the opinion that we should change our flag to the 'old' golden harp image on a dark-green background. Our current flag is too normal.

Also, I would like to have Irish as our only primary language, and English as secondary.

I think it would be very interesting to see how the public vote on these two issues.

Kevin

PS - If you look at my location you'll see that i'm in the UK. I just moved here last August, and I knew beforehand that I would have to leave Ireland in order to grow to love it more.

prinz · 18-06-2010 9:44am

No and No. How's that for a vote?

Having a harp is really not that unique as a national emblem tbh, other countries have animals, objects and mythological creatures etc.

seamus · 18-06-2010 9:49am

The flag idea isn't actually a bad one IMO, just with a bit of tweaking. How about the tricolour with a harp in the middle of the white section? That would instantly make the flag recognisable among the two (3?) similar flags which are out there.

As for making Irish the primary language of the State, that would have a whole pile of ramifications in terms of broadcasting, publishing, law, road signage, etc. Besides that, there is a strong dislike of Irish within the public because of the way that it's taught in school. I think we like the idea of our Irish identity and most of us would love to be able to speak Irish, but the process of being force-fed Irish in school means that we associate it with bad feelings.

Sleepy · 18-06-2010 10:47am

On the flag issue my only objection would be practical - the cost of such a move would be quite an unaffordable luxury at this point. Idealistically, you might find that many would oppose the move as it could be seen to be an acceptabce of the fact that the north is a separate sovereign state - as without the orange in the tricolour we'd be broadcasting that this was a republican state.

The second I'd be both idealogically and practically opposed to. I don't accept the argument that Gaeilge is the language of our people. There's quite a heated debate on whether it should receive the current level of state support it has in a topic on it's compulsory status in education on this forum at the moment, I can't see the idea of increased status and governmental support for the language being either popular outside of a minority of the electorate, affordable at any point or in any way a positive in promoting our country on the world-stage.

Cookie_Monster · 18-06-2010 11:53am

I am of the opinion that we should change our flag to the 'old' golden harp image on a dark-green background

A bit of research show this is the flag of Leinster, not Ireland per say. Though it was used as the Irish flag for a while.

Therefore it would be incorrect to use it I think.

As for the Irish bit, not likely. If this was voted for there would be a huge majority rejecting it I think.

SeaFields · 18-06-2010 11:58am

seamus wrote: »

The flag idea isn't actually a bad one IMO, just with a bit of tweaking. How about the tricolour with a harp in the middle of the white section?

On the ball! This occured to me awhile back for some reason - was prob daydreaming

And how about the flag is changed in 6 years time at the 100th anniversary of the 1916 rising ?

Permabear · 18-06-2010 12:21pm

This post has been deleted.

Mrmoe · 18-06-2010 12:48pm

Changing the flag might not be a bad idea but I don't think it would necessarily be something to do in the short term. It would definitely be something to look at when re-unification with the North occurs. I do not think changing priorities towards Irish away from English is practical though, as other posters have said it actually gives us an advantage compared to a lot of other countries who do not have it as their main first language.

bmaxi · 18-06-2010 1:01pm

I don't really see a need to change the emblem. As for the language, I've been to most countries in Europe and it is quite easy to get by using English, I can't see that being the case with Irish. I doubt you could get by in Dublin using Irish.

blubloblu · 18-06-2010 1:04pm

The president already uses a similar flag http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_President_of_Ireland.svg

Lockstep · 18-06-2010 1:10pm

I'm well in favour of having the Flag of Leinster as the national flag. I have a copy of it hanging in my room. Always thought it was much classier looking than the tricolour as well as much more recognisable. It was used as the Irish flag before the tricolour too so wouldn't see it as impractical or solely to do with Leinster.

Cookie_Monster · 18-06-2010 1:59pm

how about this one?

Lockstep · 18-06-2010 2:14pm

It doesn't look as awesome.

I find the Leinster flag to look amazing. Really stirring stuff.
The United Irishmen used it (a mix of Protestants and Catholics united) so it has historical background.

Laminations · 18-06-2010 2:16pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how about this one?

Have we just been voted out of Britains Got Talent by Piers Morgan?

Cookie_Monster · 18-06-2010 2:18pm

kickoutthejams wrote: »

It doesn't look as awesome.

I find the Leinster flag to look amazing. Really stirring stuff.

its plain green with a musical instrument on it, hardly "awesome"

Laminations wrote: »

Have we just been voted out of Britains Got Talent by Piers Morgan?

it is another old Irish flag

Lockstep · 18-06-2010 2:40pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

its plain green with a musical instrument on it, hardly "awesome"

Yes, which gives it a much more striking look than three bands of colour. Also means it's much less likely to be mistaken for the Côte D'Ivoir flag.

It also has a more Irish-centered historical base rather than a basing on the French Tricolour.

Cookie_Monster · 18-06-2010 2:45pm

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Yes, which gives it a much more striking look than three bands of colour. Also means it's much less likely to be mistaken for the Côte D'Ivoir flag.

it would then get mixed up with Libya though

Lockstep · 18-06-2010 2:46pm

Crafty Libyans...

Harp helps though.

Iwasfrozen · 18-06-2010 2:51pm

Cookie_Monster wrote:

Really? Two people on thread didn't recognise the cross of St. Patrick?
Words fail me.

Anyway, my only problem with the green flag with golden harp is that it is the flag of Leinster. We should have a flag representing all four provinces.

Personally I have always liked this:

Laminations · 18-06-2010 2:56pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

it would then get mixed up with Libya though

If we are looking for meaningful and unique flags unlikely to be confused with another country then we may as well tell it like it is

I actually like our flag, it symbolises our stuggle for independence and our desire for lasting peace and multiculturalism

The flag, as a whole, is intended to symbolise the inclusion and hoped-for union of the people of different traditions on the island of Ireland, which is expressed in the Constitution as the entitlement of every person born in Ireland to be part of the independent Irish nation, regardless of ethnic origin, religion or political conviction.[23][24]

Laminations · 18-06-2010 2:58pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Really? Two people on thread didn't recognise the cross of St. Patrick?
Words fail me.

If you think I didnt recognise it, I did, I was merely making a joke about having a big red X as our flag. This old Irish flag makes up part of the Union flag of Britain

Laminations · 18-06-2010 2:59pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Anyway, my only problem with the green flag with golden harp is that it is the flag of Leinster. We should have a flag representing all four provinces.

Personally I have always liked this:

How many different coloured crayons would a child need to draw that complicated yoke? Personally I like the simplicity and sentiment our current tricolour has

Iwasfrozen · 18-06-2010 3:02pm

Laminations wrote: »

If you think I didnt recognise it, I did, I was merely making a joke about having a big red X as our flag. This old Irish flag makes up part of the Union flag of Britain

Oh ok.

And I know.

Iwasfrozen · 18-06-2010 3:04pm

Laminations wrote: »

How many different coloured crayons would a child need to draw that complicated yoke? Personally I like the simplicity and sentiment our current tricolour has

Yeah but it's too simple. Also what does it matter if children can't draw it? I'd like to see any child draw the American flag.

Laminations · 18-06-2010 3:13pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yeah but it's too simple. Also what does it matter if children can't draw it? I'd like to see any child draw the American flag.

They can actually draw it

AND it only requires two colours

Iwasfrozen · 18-06-2010 3:22pm

Laminations wrote: »

They can actually draw it

AND it only requires two colours

They haven't drawn it though. There are supposed to be fifty stars and thirteen alternating red and white strips. So they can't draw it.

Laminations · 18-06-2010 3:31pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They haven't drawn it though. There are supposed to be fifty stars and thirteen alternating red and white strips. So they can't draw it.

Ah come on, give them a break, they're only kids!!!

Liam Byrne · 18-06-2010 3:32pm

The current flag (despite being incorrectly described all over the place as "green white and gold") is green, white and orange, symbolising peace (white) between green ("native Irishmen" ?) and orange (orangemen).

So that should stay.

I definitely wouldn't be on for using the Leinster flag to represent the whole country.

How about this one for an "exactly what it says on the tin" flag ?

Lockstep · 18-06-2010 3:33pm

Laminations wrote: »

If you think I didnt recognise it, I did, I was merely making a joke about having a big red X as our flag. This old Irish flag makes up part of the Union flag of Britain

Pretty much what he said.
I'd say everyone recognised it, just that there's better alternative flags out there (I prefer the tricolour to St Patrick's Cross)

sparkling sea · 18-06-2010 3:33pm

I think the Irish flag is fine as it is so I would be against changing it unless someone had a good reason for doing so.

The national anthem is in Irish and many people can't sing it because the don't know the words, also only a small minority of people who know the words actually know the meaning of the words.

I think something like Ireland's Call would be better, either way I would like the anthem to be sung in English so that everyone could have a chance of learning it.

Iwasfrozen · 18-06-2010 3:41pm

sparkling sea wrote: »

I think something like Ireland's Call would be better, either way I would like the anthem to be sung in English so that everyone could have a chance of learning it.

Eww, please tell me you're joking. We would be an international laughing stock.

Referendum(s)

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