Enda Kenny - Dangerous and Unsuitable for Office

CoalBucket · 07-05-2010 10:33pm

Hazlittle wrote: »

Yep cause Irelands safer in Gilmores hands?

Sorry whats his stance on the croakpark deal? Private property? Religion? The IRA? Soviet Union?

The Labour partys position on the croke park deal was not to comment one way or the other because they believed that it is purely up to the union members to inform themselves of the deal and to vote one way or the other.

Private property ? What about private property ?
The Labour party has made a proposal to enhance the rights of families in the current climate. The main crux of the proposal is to allow the family to maintain ownership of the property as long as they can be found to be making a reasonable financial effort to pay the mortgage.

Religion ? I don't see the relevance of religion in relation to the Leader of a political party

The IRA ? The soviet union ? What year did you post ?

Hazlittle · 08-05-2010 12:25pm

CoalBucket wrote: »

The Labour partys position on the croke park deal was not to comment one way or the other because they believed that it is purely up to the union members to inform themselves of the deal and to vote one way or the other.

Private property ? What about private property ?
The Labour party has made a proposal to enhance the rights of families in the current climate. The main crux of the proposal is to allow the family to maintain ownership of the property as long as they can be found to be making a reasonable financial effort to pay the mortgage.

Religion ? I don't see the relevance of religion in relation to the Leader of a political party

The IRA ? The soviet union ? What year did you post ?

I pay the government to sort out its fiances on my behalf. Gilmore has clearly stated that a private for profit organisation has complete control over my personal finances and I dont get a say in the matter. He's a fasctist plain and simple.

He was in the Workers party which supported the abolition of private property. He supports the undemocratic control of my property by a private for profit organisation which pays for his political campaign.

His party is in favour of securlarising schools. Ivana Backik says its a step towards getting rid of religion altogether.

He previously supported the Soviert Union and the IRA.

The bottom liune is the Eamon Gilmore supports removing me right to have a say in my own life.

SB-08 · 08-05-2010 12:39pm

Kenny is beyond appauling - he reminds me of a character from Father Ted. He comes accross in interviews and in the Dail as being utterly incompetent and considering what a mess FF have made, the fact that FG are actually dropping in polls just proves they need a new leader. Why on earth Richard Bruton isnt the leader is beyond me. He comes accross as an intelligent and capable man, unlike Enda, who is a joke in too many ways to mention. It is amazing he is still the leader - senior members of his own party often struggle to put up a good defence of him as a leader when asked, and often actually say although that Kenny isnt an expert on the economy he is good at delegating tasks as a team leader. :rolleyes:

I am pretty certain if Bruton was made leader they would zoom up in the polls and walk the next election. But there are simply far too many people who cannot take Enda seriously - and by the time the next election is in 2 years, the economy may have actually improved and FF will probably return for a 4th time.:mad:

maynooth_rules · 08-05-2010 1:49pm

I am fairly confident that there were no threads like this when Biffo was coming into power, when he is easily the worst and most inept Taoiseach we have ever had. A disaster in health and a disaster in finance yet few gave out when he got the position. Enda Kenny gets some unfair flack, but if people don't vote FG simply because of Kenny, then they really need to have a long chat with themselves

CoalBucket · 08-05-2010 6:39pm

Hazlittle wrote: »

I pay the government to sort out its fiances on my behalf. Gilmore has clearly stated that a private for profit organisation has complete control over my personal finances and I dont get a say in the matter. He's a fasctist plain and simple.

First of all you obviously do not know what a fascist is. You go to great, yet futile, efforts to describe Eamonn Gilmore as some ultra left socialist and then you call him a fascist. :eek:

Where is your link that Gilmore wants some group to control your finances. No quote No Link - No Point!

Who is this private for profit organisation that wants to have complete control your finances ?

Hazlittle wrote: »

He was in the Workers party which supported the abolition of private property. He supports the undemocratic control of my property by a private for profit organisation which pays for his political campaign.

To the best of my knowledge I have yet to see or hear of the Labour Party policy to abolish private property. I find it extremely difficult to believe considering the right to property is enshrigned in the constitution. Lets see one link or one quote to back that up.

Yet again who is this private for profit organisation who wants to control your property ?

Hazlittle wrote: »

His party is in favour of securlarising schools. Ivana Backik says its a step towards getting rid of religion altogether.

The United States and France are just two countries that have securalised school systems. Are they about to ban religion ?

IMO religious education is for the family of the child and not the schools. To abolish religious teaching in schools is not a step to banning religion and to suggest so is completely scare mongering.

Hazlittle wrote: »

He previously supported the Soviert Union and the IRA.

Again lets see a link or quotation or any kind of evidence for this.

I assume you are attempting to create some kind of link between the origin of the workers party from Sinn Fein. With the exception of the greens name one political party in the country not formed from an armed heritage.

Hazlittle wrote: »

The bottom liune is the Eamon Gilmore supports removing me right to have a say in my own life.

A political party whose main mantra is equality in society hardly wants to remove anybodys rights to having a say in your life.

That bit where your arm bends is your elbow, that is your arse you are sitting on. You obviously cannot tell the difference between the two.

edanto · 08-05-2010 9:17pm

I wouldn't give Hazlittle any attention at all - his/her points are off the wall, unrelated to the topic and unsubstantiated.

Let's get back to the point that the OP was making. As a supporter of FF, he was saying that Kenny was 'dangerous' and unsuitable to be a leader because of these comments in the Dail

Leaders’ Questions (28 Apr 2010)
Enda Kenny: The position, as reported to me, is that Greek exposure to the Irish banks could be of the order of €7 billion. This means the fiscal targets set by the Government are even further out than we had imagined. An EU official commented last week that Ireland would either have to move its targets back or find more savings. On the day of the budget, 9 December 2009, I asked the Taoiseach in the...

If I just heard that quote with no context, I would have considered $7bn to refer to banks like AIB and BOI, but according to Lenihan that's not the case. He was careful to answer very specifically in relation to 'covered banks'

Strategic Investment Bank: Motion (Resumed). (28 Apr 2010)
Brian Lenihan Jnr: I am pleased to have the opportunity to respond to this debate. Before I do so, I refer to Deputy Kenny’s wildly inaccurate claim this morning that Irish banks were exposed to some €7 billion of Greek debt. For the record, the total exposure of the covered banks to Greek sovereign debt is negligible, less than €40 million. It really is not in the interests of this economy - nor does..

And the Indo article above referred to 'Irish headquartered banks'

According to data sourced from the Bank of International Settlements (BIS), Irish headquartered banks had total claims on the Greek economy of $8.5bn (€6.3bn) in the final quarter of last year.

So, there is €6.3bn of Greek bonds connected to banks with Irish headquarters, but they are not necessarily the banks covered by the guarantee.

It seems like we don't know the answer yet.

But in terms of endangering our national wealth, I would consider Lenihan a far worse offender than Kenny. This is what Lenihan said in November 2008:

“We are not rushing into the banks without knowing precisely what the position is in those banks”

Using that as an example of Lenihans incredible ability to sound financially competent, but later to be proved wrong, I wouldn't trust his €40m estimate.

What do you think skearon?

CoalBucket · 08-05-2010 9:49pm

[PHP]On today’s RTE radio News at One, Sean Whelan reported that Irish banks have exposure of about €7 billion to Greek debt, that restructuring of Greek sovereign debt could lead to a fifty percent write-down of Greek debt and that because the Irish government are supporting the banks, the contribution of €450 million by the Irish government to the Greek bailout needed to be placed against the possibility of a potential loss of €3.5 billion for the banks.[/PHP]

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/category/banking-crisis/

I don't supply enda with his figures

but I can only assume that this is where the figures have come from.

skearon · 09-05-2010 5:43pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Enda Kenny might be poor, but he's worth a million of O'Dea

Kenny isn't worth a single O'Dea, let alone a million! Remember it was FG dirty tricks that got Boyle to issue his famous tweet, they then tried the same game with Sargent, but failed

skearon · 09-05-2010 5:56pm

CoalBucket wrote: »

The Labour partys position on the croke park deal was not to comment one way or the other because they believed that it is purely up to the union members to inform themselves of the deal and to vote one way or the other.

Labour's position is not to have a position, they want to bribe public servants, yet wont say where the money is coming from.

I've never known Gilmore to refrain from commenting before on any matter! His excuse is utterly pathetic and proves again he wants to speak out of both sides of his mouth at the same time, spouting populist nonsense to the widest audience possible.

Clearly a rejection of the Croke Park deal will cause our bond spread to increase rapidly, his silence is not acceptable and is damaging the national interest.

Hazlittle · 09-05-2010 6:14pm

CoalBucket wrote: »

First of all you obviously do not know what a fascist is. You go to great, yet futile, efforts to describe Eamonn Gilmore as some ultra left socialist and then you call him a fascist. :eek:

Where is your link that Gilmore wants some group to control your finances. No quote No Link - No Point!

Who is this private for profit organisation that wants to have complete control your finances ?

To the best of my knowledge I have yet to see or hear of the Labour Party policy to abolish private property. I find it extremely difficult to believe considering the right to property is enshrigned in the constitution. Lets see one link or one quote to back that up.

Yet again who is this private for profit organisation who wants to control your property ?

The United States and France are just two countries that have securalised school systems. Are they about to ban religion ?

IMO religious education is for the family of the child and not the schools. To abolish religious teaching in schools is not a step to banning religion and to suggest so is completely scare mongering.

Again lets see a link or quotation or any kind of evidence for this.

I assume you are attempting to create some kind of link between the origin of the workers party from Sinn Fein. With the exception of the greens name one political party in the country not formed from an armed heritage.

A political party whose main mantra is equality in society hardly wants to remove anybodys rights to having a say in your life.

That bit where your arm bends is your elbow, that is your arse you are sitting on. You obviously cannot tell the difference between the two.

A previous poster has mentioned his stance on the unions. He was a member of the Workers party whom were connected with the OIRA and supported the Soviet Union. They officially supported communism which is by Marxs definition is the abolition of private property.

Go back and watch Labour videos on religion in schools. They are planning on get rid of religion in total. Thats there stated, filmed and promoted message.

If you're interested I put socialism and fascism in the same bracket.

skearon wrote: »

Kenny isn't worth a single O'Dea, let alone a million! Remember it was FG dirty tricks that got Boyle to issue his famous tweet, they then tried the same game with Sargent, but failed

Fine Gaels evil pot to get rid of corrupt politicians? Heavens no!

Colonel Sanders · 09-05-2010 7:06pm

danman wrote: »

You must really think a lot of Bertie if you think he was so influencial to the electorate.

I think Aherne is the lowest form of animal life but for some reason masses of the electorate adored him

Just look at those infuriating 'Bertie's Team' posters that were hanging the length and breath of the country in the run up to the 2007 GE for proof that FF tried to exploit this unexplainable adoration

Liam Byrne · 09-05-2010 7:36pm

skearon wrote: »

Kenny isn't worth a single O'Dea, let alone a million! Remember it was FG dirty tricks that got Boyle to issue his famous tweet, they then tried the same game with Sargent, but failed

I'll assume that's your genuine opinion, so in the spirit of the discussion I'll try to respect it.

But we obviously live in different universes and expect different things from our politicians.

So what if FG got Boyle to tweet ? And it would say a lot about Boyle if he was easily swayed to do it.

By doing this, FG laid down a benchmark to say "no more" to the type of self-serving excuse-for-politics that goes on within FF.

So if you are correct, then I'll move my applause away from Boyle for having cop-on and some ethics, and give it to FG instead......and all because of your post!

trapsagenius · 09-05-2010 7:50pm

maynooth_rules wrote: »

I am fairly confident that there were no threads like this when Biffo was coming into power, when he is easily the worst and most inept Taoiseach we have ever had. A disaster in health and a disaster in finance yet few gave out when he got the position.

First of all Cowen isn't finished yet and it is only when he is finished that we can make a proper call on his tenure in office.That said, it's unlikely he'll go down well in history but we still must wait and see.And he's hardly "easily" the worst.There has been a few of very bad Taoisigh.

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Enda Kenny gets some unfair flack, but if people don't vote FG simply because of Kenny, then they really need to have a long chat with themselves

Hardly unfair.He just isn't up to the job of being leader of the opposition, and certainly not Taoiseach. And I could just as easily say that if people do vote for FG in spite of Kenny, then they really need to have a long chat with themselves.

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I think Aherne is the lowest form of animal life but for some reason masses of the electorate adored him

Ah, come on now!

skearon · 09-05-2010 7:57pm

edanto wrote: »

I wouldn't give Hazlittle any attention at all - his/her points are off the wall, unrelated to the topic and unsubstantiated.

Let's get back to the point that the OP was making. As a supporter of FF, he was saying that Kenny was 'dangerous' and unsuitable to be a leader because of these comments in the Dail

Leaders’ Questions (28 Apr 2010)
Enda Kenny: The position, as reported to me, is that Greek exposure to the Irish banks could be of the order of €7 billion. This means the fiscal targets set by the Government are even further out than we had imagined. An EU official commented last week that Ireland would either have to move its targets back or find more savings. On the day of the budget, 9 December 2009, I asked the Taoiseach in the...

If I just heard that quote with no context, I would have considered $7bn to refer to banks like AIB and BOI, but according to Lenihan that's not the case. He was careful to answer very specifically in relation to 'covered banks'

Strategic Investment Bank: Motion (Resumed). (28 Apr 2010)
Brian Lenihan Jnr: I am pleased to have the opportunity to respond to this debate. Before I do so, I refer to Deputy Kenny’s wildly inaccurate claim this morning that Irish banks were exposed to some €7 billion of Greek debt. For the record, the total exposure of the covered banks to Greek sovereign debt is negligible, less than €40 million. It really is not in the interests of this economy - nor does..

And the Indo article above referred to 'Irish headquartered banks'

According to data sourced from the Bank of International Settlements (BIS), Irish headquartered banks had total claims on the Greek economy of $8.5bn (€6.3bn) in the final quarter of last year.

So, there is €6.3bn of Greek bonds connected to banks with Irish headquarters, but they are not necessarily the banks covered by the guarantee.

It seems like we don't know the answer yet.

But in terms of endangering our national wealth, I would consider Lenihan a far worse offender than Kenny. This is what Lenihan said in November 2008:

“We are not rushing into the banks without knowing precisely what the position is in those banks”

Using that as an example of Lenihans incredible ability to sound financially competent, but later to be proved wrong, I wouldn't trust his €40m estimate.

What do you think skearon?

Lenihan is 100% correct

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6291

skearon · 09-05-2010 8:03pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'll assume that's your genuine opinion, so in the spirit of the discussion I'll try to respect it.

But we obviously live in different universes and expect different things from our politicians.

So what if FG got Boyle to tweet ? And it would say a lot about Boyle if he was easily swayed to do it.

By doing this, FG laid down a benchmark to say "no more" to the type of self-serving excuse-for-politics that goes on within FF.

So if you are correct, then I'll move my applause away from Boyle for having cop-on and some ethics, and give it to FG instead......and all because of your post!

Thank you

FG deliberately mislead the political correspondents in the Dail, Boyle believed these lies and the rest is history. In the fullness of time I'm sure the real truth will emerge.

nuac · 09-05-2010 8:34pm

Enda Kenny took over leadership of a badly beaten party in 2002 and in 2007 brought them to within a whisker of government.

Is the criticism because he is not a D4 type?

Liam Byrne · 09-05-2010 9:02pm

skearon wrote: »

Thank you

FG deliberately mislead the political correspondents in the Dail, Boyle believed these lies and the rest is history. In the fullness of time I'm sure the real truth will emerge.

Methinks you are shooting the messenger.

Do you or do you not think that what O'Dea got up to is despicable and shows him as unfit for office ?

And if so, how can you possibly think O'Dea is a million times better than Kenny ?

Liam Byrne · 09-05-2010 9:05pm

skearon wrote: »

Lenihan is 100% correct

I think the key quote was

“We are not rushing into the banks without knowing precisely what the position is in those banks”

That is precisely what he did, and we are paying the price, with the bill for this disgraceful decision rising by the day. :mad:

galwayrush · 09-05-2010 9:15pm

skearon wrote: »

Lenihan is 100% correct

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6291

Yep, 100% correct every time he changes his mind.:rolleyes:
He sure got Anglo wrong.:mad:What an expensive cock up that will turn out to be.

CoalBucket · 09-05-2010 10:35pm

skearon wrote: »

Labour's position is not to have a position, they want to bribe public servants, yet wont say where the money is coming from.

I've never known Gilmore to refrain from commenting before on any matter! His excuse is utterly pathetic and proves again he wants to speak out of both sides of his mouth at the same time, spouting populist nonsense to the widest audience possible.

Clearly a rejection of the Croke Park deal will cause our bond spread to increase rapidly, his silence is not acceptable and is damaging the national interest.

When the governement was entering into previous payment agreements with the unions, did political parties or their leaders tell the unions which way to vote?

Are the union members entitled to form their own opinion on a vote they have to cast which will affect them directly ?

What FF and their blinded supporters need to understand is the union members have the right to make up their own minds and not be instructed what the national interest is. The union members are not sheep who need to be directed or bullied into an agreement.

If FF wanted to serve the national interest they would have called a general election 12 months ago before they decided to bail out Anglo and the other corrupt banks.

Eamonn Gilmores position is the union members should be allowed to form their own opinion and be allowed to vote as they see fit, whether you or FF think that is acceptable. In fact it's a bit rich for FF to be telling any party what is acceptable.

Whether the union members accept or reject the Croke Park agreement is entirely up to the union members. That is why it is called an agreement.

CoalBucket · 09-05-2010 10:53pm

Hazlittle wrote: »

A previous poster has mentioned his stance on the unions. He was a member of the Workers party whom were connected with the OIRA and supported the Soviet Union. They officially supported communism which is by Marxs definition is the abolition of private property.

Go back and watch Labour videos on religion in schools. They are planning on get rid of religion in total. Thats there stated, filmed and promoted message.
If you're interested I put socialism and fascism in the same bracket.
Fine Gaels evil pot to get rid of corrupt politicians? Heavens no!

Well no having seen what someone else said !! Thw workers party were originally split from Sinn Fein. So what ! Sinn Fein are from an armed background. So are FF, Fine Gael and the Labour Party. Your attempt to link Eamonn Gilmore is pathetic and frivilous. Again I'll ask If you have any shread of proof, link or quotation then lets see it.

You don't know what the difference is between communism and socialism. The Labour party is not a marxist or communist party. This is not China !!

As stated secularism in schools does not mean a removal of religion from society. Just cause you say so doen't make it so. Lets see a quote, reference,document, link, article, audio, video, sketch or anything to back up this ludicrous claim.

You also don't know the difference between fascism and socialism.

You are so confused in your ideas it's almost funny if it wasn't dangerously ignorant.

Colonel Sanders · 09-05-2010 11:58pm

trapsagenius wrote: »

Ah, come on now!

I stand by my comment

Words can't describe the contempt I have for this conniving weasel

duffflash · 10-05-2010 5:00am

northwest100 wrote: »

Yes, I'm in favour of good auld Bertie Ahern being reappointed leader of the country..he'll get us out of this mess we're in, won't he?
He's an economic genius..

Indeed and he is, but ya wouldn’t wanta be cribbing and moaning to him about how he’s doing things.
He’d have ya killed and then say it was suicide!!:pac::pac:;)

anymore · 15-05-2010 9:21pm

It is worth noting that Useless Enda has now apparently done a U Turn on FG's previous attitude to the EU. The EU now, according to FG, wants to undermine our democracy and interfere with our tax system - didnt the anti Lisbon people keep saying that and FG kept saying " Oh no they wont " ?

CoalBucket · 15-05-2010 10:15pm

anymore wrote: »

It is worth noting that Useless Enda has now apparently done a U Turn on FG's previous attitude to the EU. The EU now, according to FG, wants to undermine our democracy and interfere with our tax system - didnt the anti Lisbon people keep saying that and FG kept saying " Oh no they wont " ?

Where exactly was this said. Any link ?

Is it that the budget has to be pre-approved by the EU.
According to the government if you question this you are an EU sceptic.
Ironic coming from FF who wouldn't have the EU commission dictate a budget to us when Charlie McCreevy was Minister for Finance.

Is it wrong to question whether the EU in this pre-approval maybe able to alter our low corporation tax ?

Is it not the government who have performed the u-turn and it is the opposition parties that are questioning this ?

I'm getting sick of the attempted spin from the government and their supporters who have placed the country on the brink of financial abyss to try and shift the attention to the opposition each and everytime they F%£k up.

Spiritoftheseventies · 16-05-2010 7:39am

skearon wrote: »

Enda Kenny again proved how incapable he is to run the country by stating, in the Dáil yesterday, that Irish banks held €7 billion in Greek bonds, a figure that would have had huge implications for their tier one capital requirements as well as for the cost of Irish borrowing, when the actual figure was a mere €40 million.

Such mistakes prove how inept Kenny is, he claims he is able to run the country, however I wouldnt trust his to run a sweet shop!

This will be the FF ploy in next election campaign. They will say Kenny will do this to the country and that to the country while completely ignoring what they have themselves have done to the country

anymore · 16-05-2010 11:24am

CoalBucket wrote: »

Where exactly was this said. Any link ?

Is it that the budget has to be pre-approved by the EU.
According to the government if you question this you are an EU sceptic.
Ironic coming from FF who wouldn't have the EU commission dictate a budget to us when Charlie McCreevy was Minister for Finance.

Is it wrong to question whether the EU in this pre-approval maybe able to alter our low corporation tax ?

Is it not the government who have performed the u-turn and it is the opposition parties that are questioning this ?

I'm getting sick of the attempted spin from the government and their supporters who have placed the country on the brink of financial abyss to try and shift the attention to the opposition each and everytime they F%£k up.

I voted for FG last election, but even I can see that Kenny is a complete waste of space ! Anyone politician with a modicum of ability could have destroyed Ahern before the last election. The only possible way kenny can get elected is to have one of the worst recessions in history ruin our economy and to have 400,000 + unemployed.
Get as sick as you like, but it is not half as sick as many of us feel when we see kenny do his ' Muppet ' act.

CoalBucket · 16-05-2010 12:08pm

anymore wrote: »

I voted for FG last election, but even I can see that Kenny is a complete waste of space ! Anyone politician with a modicum of ability could have destroyed Ahern before the last election. The only possible way kenny can get elected is to have one of the worst recessions in history ruin our economy and to have 400,000 + unemployed.
Get as sick as you like, but it is not half as sick as many of us feel when we see kenny do his ' Muppet ' act.

What has that got to do with your original point that FG have turned against the EU or have you just decided to give up on that now and go with the clearly thought out "Enda is a muppet" arguement ?

Liam Byrne · 16-05-2010 7:35pm

anymore wrote: »

The only possible way kenny can get elected is to have one of the worst recessions in history ruin our economy and to have 400,000 + unemployed.

We're halfway there, so, thanks to FF.....

anymore · 17-05-2010 4:02pm

CoalBucket wrote: »

What has that got to do with your original point that FG have turned against the EU or have you just decided to give up on that now and go with the clearly thought out "Enda is a muppet" arguement ?

Enda is a muppet regardless of the topic. This man held on to a permanent teaching post for twenty years whilst he was working full time as a TD and drawing a Ministers pension . He is not fTr to hold any public post.

Enda Kenny - Dangerous and Unsuitable for Office

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