Enda Kenny - Dangerous and Unsuitable for Office

skearon

Enda Kenny again proved how incapable he is to run the country by stating, in the Dáil yesterday, that Irish banks held €7 billion in Greek bonds, a figure that would have had huge implications for their tier one capital requirements as well as for the cost of Irish borrowing, when the actual figure was a mere €40 million.

Such mistakes prove how inept Kenny is, he claims he is able to run the country, however I wouldnt trust his to run a sweet shop!

northwest100

Yes, FF have done an outstanding job so far.

danman

Any one can make a mistake, I don't know of any individual that hasn't.
Perhaps he should withdraw the comment.

I don't really like political point scoring, as a rule. But if it was a genuine mistake that would be ok.

Enda is many things, but I wouldn't class him as dangerous.

Edit : in fact, the fact that he's not dangerous is one of his failings in my view. He comes across as lacking any balls. It's just my own personal view of him.

skearon

northwest100 wrote: »

Yes, FF have done an outstanding job so far.

Whether they have or not, is not the point. This thread is about how inept Kenny is.

But you might want to read the influencial Lex column in yesterday's Financial Times regarding the Irish Government and Brian Lenihan - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3/aaad9d90-52a0-11df-a192-00144feab49a.html

skearon

danman wrote: »

Any one can make a mistake, I don't know of any individual that hasn't.
Perhaps he should withdraw the comment.

I don't really like political point scoring, as a rule. But if it was a genuine mistake that would be ok.

Enda is many things, but I wouldn't class him as dangerous.

He is dangerous in terms of economic future of the country, remarks such as his can directly cause the cost of Irish borrowing to rise, if he can't get basic facts right, he should stop pretending he can be Taoiseach.

danman

Praise indeed.

Edit: sorry, you jumped in ahead of me. This is directed to the FT article.

northwest100

skearon wrote:

Bertie Ahern has not been found guilty of any crime, there is such thing as due process!

Yes, I'm in favour of good auld Bertie Ahern being reappointed leader of the country..he'll get us out of this mess we're in, won't he?
He's an economic genius..

bladespin

danman wrote: »

Any one can make a mistake, I don't know of any individual that hasn't.
Perhaps he should withdraw the comment.

Definately couldn't accuse Enda of being dangerous though I'd love to see him in a Willie O'Dea/dirty Harry pose

I'd say, if anything, Enda's been far too careful about his speeches, political opportunity is presenting itself every day now, it seems, even yesterday the government rolled back on itself again with Anglo, Enda should be pointing these failings and shambolic mistakes out with a glow stick.
Get roaring Enda.

Economically could he be considered as dangerous as Brian Cowen, who's policies almost single handedly caused this crisis? I doubt it. People here are fickle, they forget easily, foreign investors and lenders aren't quite so forgiving.

baalthor

This was first stated by RTE's economics correspondent so Enda isn't the only person to be misled.
Apparently the ?7b includes ALL Irish institutions including the IFSC.
I would give Enda a pass on this one; it's not 'hospital ship' territory :-D

zootroid

skearon wrote: »

Enda Kenny again proved how incapable he is to run the country by stating, in the Dáil yesterday, that Irish banks held €7 billion in Greek bonds, a figure that would have had huge implications for their tier one capital requirements as well as for the cost of Irish borrowing, when the actual figure was a mere €40 million.

Such mistakes prove how inept Kenny is, he claims he is able to run the country, however I wouldnt trust his to run a sweet shop!

And Cowen is better? Cowen stood on the floor of the New York stock exchange, proclaiming how Irish banks are well capitalised three months before the bank guarantee was brought in. Link here

skearon wrote: »

Whether they have or not, is not the point. This thread is about how inept Kenny is.

But you might want to read the influencial Lex column in yesterday's Financial Times regarding the Irish Government and Brian Lenihan - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3/aaad9d90-52a0-11df-a192-00144feab49a.html

I think Lenihan is one of the better Ministers we have. However, despite his decision to cut 4 billion in the last budget, he almost didn't get his way as Cowen was trying to placate the unions. It should also be noted that FG had similar proposals to cut 4 billion, except they weren't going to cut anyone who was on 30k or less.

Atlantic Dawn

If Bertie was still in power the party would still be on :rolleyes:

Raiser

Enda Kenny always reminds me of a minor Actor like you might see in the local Community Centres amateur drama type Play - Sure he gets handed his lines and comes on Stage to deliver them with lots of swagger and gutsy finger pointing for dramatic emphasis, but the whole performance is creaky, poorly implemented, badly planned, impossible to take seriously or even believe and usually its all just very,very cringe-worthy.

To my mind he has always had a significant share of the blame for the results of the June '07 elections as the notion to back Enda Kenny comes as naturally to the thinking Man as the notion to stab your own Retinas with a butter knife.

Marshy

Raiser wrote: »

Enda Kenny always reminds me of a minor Actor like you might see in the local Community Centres amateur drama type Play - Sure he gets handed his lines and comes on Stage to deliver them with lots of swagger and gutsy finger pointing for dramatic emphasis, but the whole performance is creaky, poorly implemented, badly planned, impossible to take seriously or even believe and usually its all just very,very cringe-worthy.

Lol, yeah I remember him from the the FG party political broadcast for the elections last year. Car crash telly at its finest!

Liam Byrne

skearon wrote: »

Enda Kenny again proved how incapable he is to run the country by stating, in the Dáil yesterday, that Irish banks held €7 billion in Greek bonds, a figure that would have had huge implications for their tier one capital requirements as well as for the cost of Irish borrowing, when the actual figure was a mere €40 million.

Such mistakes prove how inept Kenny is, he claims he is able to run the country, however I wouldnt trust his to run a sweet shop!

So Kenny was what, €6.9 billion out on his "basic facts" ?

I seem to remember Lenihan telling us that around €20 billion would save Anglo, and so far he's been out by about €22 billion.

People in glasshouses, etc......

dvpower

skearon wrote: »

Enda Kenny again proved how incapable he is to run the country by stating, in the Dáil yesterday, that Irish banks held €7 billion in Greek bonds, a figure that would have had huge implications for their tier one capital requirements as well as for the cost of Irish borrowing, when the actual figure was a mere €40 million.

Such mistakes prove how inept Kenny is, he claims he is able to run the country, however I wouldnt trust his to run a sweet shop!

But before he made the error you were going to vote for him, right?

Raiser

Yeah but why oh why does it have to be an either or situation?????

April 2010 and People are still debating that Fianna Fail are destined to stay in Government forever simply because Enda Kenny is the type of Simpleton who would probably forget how to tie his laces if he learnt how to operate his DVD Player?

- Although, that said, it does just about discount Fine Gael in their entirety that they haven't seen fit to pull him off the Stage after 838 verses of Inda singing the same old tuneless, ear-shattering, nonsensical and so obviously unpopular song.....

Sleepy

Never mind the fact that if FG were elected to power and Kenny becomes Taoiseach, it'll be Richard Bruton (one of the very few economically literate politicians in Ireland) who'll be running the Department of Finance.

Or is that just too inconvenient a truth for you to swallow?

danman

Raiser wrote: »

Enda Kenny always reminds me of a minor Actor like you might see in the local Community Centres amateur drama.......

it rare that you get a laugh on politics forum, but I just did Reading that.
It actually sums up how I see him, but I could never put it into words.

I always see him as the spoilt child at the shop protesting on the floor, screaming "BUT, I WANT IT......"

jmayo

skearon wrote: »

He is dangerous in terms of economic future of the country, remarks such as his can directly cause the cost of Irish borrowing to rise, if he can't get basic facts right, he should stop pretending he can be Taoiseach.

Well AFAIK Enda hasn't cost us anything yet, whereas biffo and great lenny (always remeber the senior counsel condoned another legal professional in lying on a sworn affadivit to the high court) have cost us how many billions again 40/50 or some wuch when you work out the bank recapitalisations, the money NAMA will probably lose and the spiralling current budget deficit.

Puts it in a bit of prespective now doesn't it :rolleyes:

Raiser wrote: »

...
To my mind he has always had a significant share of the blame for the results of the June '07 elections as the notion to back Enda Kenny comes as naturally to the thinking Man as the notion to stab your own Retinas with a butter knife.

So did you vote for a shyster who couldn't explain wads of cash in his safe, who was getting nearly one of the value of a house he didn't own to do it up even though it was only a few years old ?
Oh and don't forget he promoted and defended a corrupt politican (who had questions hanging over him since the 70s) and gave unsigned cheques to another one.

Raiser wrote: »

Yeah but why oh why does it have to be an either or situation?????

April 2010 and People are still debating that Fianna Fail are destined to stay in Government forever simply because Enda Kenny is the type of Simpleton who would probably forget how to tie his laces if he learnt how to operate his DVD Player?

- Although, that said, it does just about discount Fine Gael in their entirety that they haven't seen fit to pull him off the Stage after 838 verses of Inda singing the same old tuneless, ear-shattering, nonsensical and so obviously unpopular song.....

Maybe they know something you don't ?
He managed to pull together a party that had suffered a huge election defeat and was on it's knees, he managed to almost beat a shyster that was so beloved by the gombeens of this country that he was one of the most popular taoiseachs ever.
Remeber how Kenny (and Rabitte) got slated for attacking poor cry baby bertie.

Always remember that Bruton would be calling the shots in Finance and you have other very capable people like Dr James Reilly holding prominent ministries.

And then look who you have at present and please don't say lenihan.
He has screwed up and cost us too much already or have you forgotten VAT increases, not fully reading report on Anglo and the actual guarantee of Anglo and INBS that will add to our national debt and cost us well above 25 billion euro ?

Raiser

jmayo wrote: »

So did you vote for a shyster who couldn't explain wads of cash in his safe, who was getting nearly one of the value of a house he didn't own to do it up even though it was only a few years old ?
Oh and don't forget he promoted and defended a corrupt politican (who had questions hanging over him since the 70s) and gave unsigned cheques to another one.

I didn't say that, imply that or post anything that would indicate such a stance - You've simply said that I did through speed reading, poor comprehension or to falsely bolster your own views. I'd like to refute and disassociate myself from your comments as they most certainly misrepresent my position.....

jmayo wrote: »

Maybe they know something you don't ?
He managed to pull together a party that had suffered a huge election defeat and was on it's knees, he managed to almost beat a shyster that was so beloved by the gombeens of this country that he was one of the most popular taoiseachs ever.

Enda Kenny is a walking joke of a Politician, I don't care what positive attributes you see in him - He can get the A Team to sing Karaoke with the Pope for all I care - his past history is more damp, limp and generally vapid than his lacklustre future.

Furthermore, and in retrospect, I blame him for sitting, bloated, washed-up, wedged and useless in the Opposition corner blocking the way of new blood when he himself never, ever had the skill, natural talent and hunger to take on and knock out his Opponents in the ring.

- Oh yes he "almost beat" a Political Opponent who was actually leaving the Dock in Tribunals to contest the Election with him and he still managed to fcuk it up - To return to the boxing analogies this is akin to having to beat a blind, one-legged, one armed, concussed 10 year old, who keeps having double-vision and dizzy spells.

anymore

Maybe Useless Enda could audition for 'Waiting For Godot' !

jmayo

Raiser wrote: »

I didn't say that, imply that or post anything that would indicate such a stance - You've simply said that I did through speed reading, poor comprehension or to falsely bolster your own views. I'd like to refute and disassociate myself from your comments as they most certainly misrepresent my position.....

I just asked if you voted for the other guy i.e. bertie, since you have such a low opinion of Kenny and the claims you made about how you felt when you saw him.

There is no need for the condescending attitude.

Talking about speed reading did you notice it was a question I asked and not a statement.
Little hint there was a question mark at the end of the sentence.

Raiser wrote: »

Enda Kenny is a walking joke of a Politician, I don't care what positive attributes you see in him - He can get the A Team to sing Karaoke with the Pope for all I care - his past history is more damp, limp and generally vapid than his lacklustre future.

Furthermore, and in retrospect, I blame him for sitting, bloated, washed-up, wedged and useless in the Opposition corner blocking the way of new blood when he himself never, ever had the skill, natural talent and hunger to take on and knock out his Opponents in the ring.

- Oh yes he "almost beat" a Political Opponent who was actually leaving the Dock in Tribunals to contest the Election with him and he still managed to fcuk it up - To return to the boxing analogies this is akin to having to beat a blind, one-legged, one armed, concussed 10 year old, who keeps having double-vision and dizzy spells.

I am assuming you are smart enough to have noticed he can't knock out the government because they have a majority.
You do know how the Irish political process works and how much power party whips have ?
In most democracies the government would have fallen due to the fact either the people would be on the streets or half of the government tds would have resigned in shame on principle.
Most of our politicans, particularly those of ff don't do resigning on principle and the Irish people would much rather bitch and whine, go to the pub, fight amongst themselves for their own narrow interests than get out on the streets to bring this government down as in Iceland.

It doesn't matter if Enda skins cowen, makes smart pity remarks like Gilmore or makes a speech like the last great Dáil orator John Kelly if the government TDs toe the line then we are stuck with this government.

BTW you might also have noticed that the opposition did less well in the polls pre election 2007 when they attacked bertie, that because the gombeen Irish electorate bought his sob stories thanks in part to the soft RTE interview.

danman

Have you read his post at all, he's not talking about knocking out the government in the Dail, he was talking about GE 2007.

BH was on the ropes in 2007, he was there for the taking, yet Enda managed to grasp a defeat from the claws of a win.

You must really think a lot of Bertie if you think he was so influencial to the electorate.

nacho libre

danman wrote: »

Have you read his post at all, he's not talking about knocking out the government in the Dail, he was talking about GE 2007.

BH was on the ropes in 2007, he was there for the taking, yet Enda managed to grasp a defeat from the claws of a win.

.

yes you could see in that debate Ahern had no respect for Kenny as a political performer. it was really dispriting stuff to watch because you just knew the likes of John Bruton and Dick Spring would have wiped the floor with Ahern.

Pride Fighter

I agree. Not only that, he is a racist. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/sep/15/world.race

Drumpot

Why is it that people assume if you attack FG or Labour you are automatically pro FF ?

I dont know the motivations of OP, but I can safely say Im a floating voter . .

I WOULD vote for FF if I felt the candidate in my area reflected my principles and if I felt they were the best of the rest. For the record I have voted for FG, Independents and FF in the past, I vote for candidates, not parties.

I DONT agree with people saying "anybody but FF" as it completely ignores the problem with our political system. The biggest problem in this country is the electorate. They have to change their attitudes and not only vote for what is best for them personally, but what they believe is best for the country. . I simply dont think we are mature enough a nation to do it. A government generally mirrors its people and it certainly mirrored our greedy appetites during the "boom" years.

The first people to blame for the state of the country is the electorate . . Plain and simple. If Bertie/FF werent in power(or whoever you blame) they couldnt of caused the damage they did.

The people of Ireland OBVIOUSLY havent accepted this because most people say the silly "anybody but FF" statement without thinking about how low they are setting the bar for the opposition. Not only that, the opposition have been nothing short of lame. They cant even properly attack the least popular government in the history of the country and only respond to populist agenda's.

We need to accept the role we played in bringing our country to where we are and also accept that part of our penance is to demand more from our TD's for the greater good of Ireland. Question their credibility and ability to do whats right for IRELAND (not just ourselves). Dont accept "anybody but FF" is a solution to our problems. Only then do we deserve the opportunity to point fingers at some of the bigger players in our decline.

We , as a nation , got greedy and collectively buried our heads in the sand while the going was generally good. Whether you voted FF or not is irrelevant. Nobody protested on the streets at what was going on. Doing nothing was nearly as bad as voting for FF. The people who get into power, do so, at our hands. Looking for somebody else to blame will only mean we have learned nothing from our mistakes in the past.

Laminations

Drumpot wrote: »

Why is it that people assume if you attack FG or Labour you are automatically pro FF ?

I dont know the motivations of OP, but I can safely say Im a floating voter . .

I WOULD vote for FF if I felt the candidate in my area reflected my principles and if I felt they were the best of the rest. For the record I have voted for FG, Independents and FF in the past, I vote for candidates, not parties.

So would you vote for a SF candidate if they reflected your principles or would their membership of the party make you doubt their judgement? I'm quite certain SFs political ideas would influence your vote, and rightly so. Similarly you need to take into account FFs performance and acceptance of corruption waste and wrongdoing.You cant simply extract a candidate from their party. Presently if someone is canvassing or running for FF i have to seriously quesyion their judgement, their motives and their integrity just like i would with Shinners

PS the OP is a staunch FF supporter

Drumpot

Laminations wrote: »

So would you vote for a SF candidate if they reflected your principles or would their membership of the party make you doubt their judgement? I'm quite certain SFs political ideas would influence your vote, and rightly so. Similarly you need to take into account FFs performance and acceptance of corruption waste and wrongdoing.You can simply extract a candidate from their party. Presently if someone is canvassing or running for FF i have to seriously quesyion their judgement, their motives and their integrity just like i would with Shinners

You assume voting for somebody means you have to be a member of their party . . I dont think voting for a FF candidate means I am a member of the party. Nor do I believe it means I support everything the party does. If I believe a particular TD can make a differance for the better, then it shouldnt matter what party they are in. Whats the point in voting independents if you believe that its all about the "party"? You want your candidate to influence change for the better.

The principles of the a party I would vote for :

(i) To secure in peace and agreement the unity of Ireland and its people. (ii) To develop a distinctive national life in accordance with the diverse traditions and ideals of the Irish people as part of a broader European culture, and to restore and promote the Irish language as a living language of the people.
(iii) To guarantee religious and civil liberty, and equal rights, equal treatment and equal opportunities for all the people of Ireland.
(iv) To develop the resources and wealth of Ireland to their full potential, while making them subservient to the needs and welfare of all the people of Ireland, so as to provide the maximum sustainable employment, based on fostering a spirit of enterprise and self-reliance and on social partnership.
(v) To protect the natural environment and heritage of Ireland and to ensure a balance between town and country and between the regions, and to maintain as many families as practicable on the land.
(vi) To promote the family, and a wider sense of social responsibility, and to uphold the rule of law in the interest of the welfare and safety of the public.
(vii) To maintain the status of Ireland as a sovereign State, as a full member of the European Union and the United Nations, contributing to peace, disarmament and development on the basis of Ireland's independent foreign policy tradition.
(viii) To reform the laws and institutions of State, to make them efficient, humane, caring and responsive to the needs of the citizen.




This is very differant to what Sinn Fein Stands for, so your point on them is irrelevant. I think most people in this country would vote for this party. BUT wait . . These are the supposed principles of FF .

Again, my point is that its not necessarily the party thats the problem its the morals, principles and conviction of the individuals who are leading the party at the moment. But these traits are molded by the electorate . .

This is not a pro FF post (which people who haven't read it properly will assume). Its a post to try to get people to open their eyes and look on politics in a holistic view as opposed to the childish, narrow minded view we, as a nation usually take (vote for whoever tells us what we like to hear).

Laminations

Drumpot wrote: »

You assume voting for somebody means you have to be a member of their party . . I dont think voting for a FF candidate means I am a member of the party. Nor do I believe it means I support everything the party does. If I believe a particular TD can make a differance for the better, then it shouldnt matter what party they are in. Whats the point in voting independents if you believe that its all about the "party"? You want your candidate to influence change for the better.

The principles of the a party I would vote for :

(i) To secure in peace and agreement the unity of Ireland and its people. (ii) To develop a distinctive national life in accordance with the diverse traditions and ideals of the Irish people as part of a broader European culture, and to restore and promote the Irish language as a living language of the people.
(iii) To guarantee religious and civil liberty, and equal rights, equal treatment and equal opportunities for all the people of Ireland.
(iv) To develop the resources and wealth of Ireland to their full potential, while making them subservient to the needs and welfare of all the people of Ireland, so as to provide the maximum sustainable employment, based on fostering a spirit of enterprise and self-reliance and on social partnership.
(v) To protect the natural environment and heritage of Ireland and to ensure a balance between town and country and between the regions, and to maintain as many families as practicable on the land.
(vi) To promote the family, and a wider sense of social responsibility, and to uphold the rule of law in the interest of the welfare and safety of the public.
(vii) To maintain the status of Ireland as a sovereign State, as a full member of the European Union and the United Nations, contributing to peace, disarmament and development on the basis of Ireland's independent foreign policy tradition.
(viii) To reform the laws and institutions of State, to make them efficient, humane, caring and responsive to the needs of the citizen.




This is very differant to what Sinn Fein Stands for, so your point on them is irrelevant. I think most people in this country would vote for this party. BUT wait . . These are the supposed principles of FF .

Again, my point is that its not necessarily the party thats the problem its the morals, principles and conviction of the individuals who are leading the party at the moment. But these traits are molded by the electorate . .

This is not a pro FF post (which people who haven't read it properly will assume). Its a post to try to get people to open their eyes and look on politics in a holistic view as opposed to the childish, narrow minded view we, as a nation usually take (vote for whoever tells us what we like to hear).

I also vote for the 'best' candidate rather than party but part of that 'best' involves the judgements they've made when alligning themselves with a party. This is not an issue with independents. I dont care what FFs supposed ideology is, i know them by their actions- what they have condoned and what they have overseen. A candidate who runs for them immediately handicaps themslves by their ill choice of party

Drumpot

Laminations wrote: »

I also vote for the 'best' candidate rather than party but part of that 'best' involves the judgwments they've made when alligning themselves with a party. This is not an issue with independents. I dont care what FFs supposed ideology is, i know them by their actions- what they have condoned and what they have overseen. A candidate who runs for them immediarely handicaps themslves by their ill choice of party

Agree with some of that . .

But are you saying if you had 3 candidates on front of you and the best candidate (who you felt was honest and looking out most for the interests of this country), you would basically not vote for them if they were aligned with FF ?

Thats my point . . Yes, its a strike against their name in your eyes, but it doesn't mean they aren't the most capable candidate.

And the ideologies of the party are vital. You mentioned Sinn Fein, who most of us wouldnt vote for if they had superman himself! The actions of the existing members of FF is more representative of what we, the electorate demanded, then the ideology that the party is supposed to represent.

Everything I am saying is about getting people to think properly about why they vote for somebody. What principles do you believe in? What sort of community do you want ?

Haughy, Lawlor , Bertie were big members of FF, but only because people voted for them and wanted them to play leading roles in the country. Because we associate FF with these members, does not mean the whole party is representative of its ideals. For that, its the electorates fault for sacrificing principles for populist figureheads who rode us all. .

I dont want the same FF in power in the next elections . . Certainly not . . But if I was told I would have a party with the mandate mentioned (that they are supposed to follow) and the greater good at its core, I would vote for them. If it happened to be FF, then so be it . .

Laminations

Drumpot wrote: »

Agree with some of that . .

But are you saying if you had 3 candidates on front of you and the best candidate (who you felt was honest and looking out most for the interests of this country ), you would basically not vote for them if they were aligned with FF ?

The bits in bold create great dissonance for me. They are not compatible in my eyes. If you are the former you would leave the latter or not join in the first place.

Haughy, Lawlor , Bertie were big members of FF, but only because people voted for them and wanted them to play leading roles in the country. Because we associate FF with these members, does not mean the whole party is representative of its ideals. For that, its the electorates fault for sacrificing principles for populist figureheads who rode us all. .

And pmce theor behaviour was known how did the party deal with them? That reflects badly on the party and shows you what they stand for

I dont want the same FF in power in the next elections . . Certainly not . . But if I was told I would have a party with the mandate mentioned (that they are supposed to follow) and the greater good at its core, I would vote for them. If it happened to be FF, then so be it . .

Ive said it before on here, i may vote for FF in the future but its umrealistic to think theyll have changed that much by next election. Especially given the views of party members on here that relentlessly defend them no matter what. They remain a rotten party with a rotten base