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FE1 Exam Thread (Mod Warning: NO ADS)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    2ndtimer wrote: »
    Contract

    Does any one know anything relating to a case called Digitalmali? Im convinced this is an incorrect citation of the name, however the examiner quotes it in the 0ct 2008 report.

    Thanks

    Digilandmall I think is the one you're on about?

    In relation to mistake?


    edit: full citation is Chwee Kin Keong v Digilandmall Com Pte Ltd [2005] 1 SLR 502


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    sarcastra wrote: »
    Yeah, I think most people would choose to only do one or the other when it comes to mortgages and landlord/tenant.

    Is there a certain aspect of LL/T that is the most important in your view? Maybe I'll have a read of it at 3am just in case I need to write something in desperation.

    If I was just doing part of LL/T, I'd go for Inidications of a Lease (so to recognise one and know the diff between that and a license) as its fairly long but the cases are easy to remember, and would be a handy question.
    Then maybe have a look over rule of Walsh v. Lonsdale - I find it confusing, but it's asked often enough in the short note questions I think.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 sarcastra


    vote4pedro wrote: »
    If I was just doing part of LL/T, I'd go for Inidications of a Lease (so to recognise one and know the diff between that and a license) as its fairly long but the cases are easy to remember, and would be a handy question.
    Then maybe have a look over rule of Walsh v. Lonsdale - I find it confusing, but it's asked often enough in the short note questions I think.


    You're very good - thanks for letting me know!

    G


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭sunnyside


    I'm back with more general questions.

    The case law again, just how much of it do I need to be learning? I did today's criminal paper with very little case law. I did the problem questions mostly. The capital murder question, I mentioned the Murrays, wrote a bit about them but that was all. I know there was accomplice case law but I didn't remember any and I was writing like crazy in the last few minutes to get all the issues mentioned.

    I'm good at identifying issues and I think my answers were good, I did 5 questions but not having done law exams before using case law is new to me. Then I did the classification of a crime question really well I think but that didn't have case law in the manual except for the Melling v O'Mathghauma case they quoted and the O'Sullivan v Hartnett case about the 900 salmon v 1 salmon.

    From doing the exams I've learned how little time there is to write so even if I knew every case in the book there wouldn't be time to write it.

    Do people actually leave out half the book like in college exams? I've covered a lot of topics for the exams I've done this week but then so little of it actually comes up:(

    Is it common to only do 4 questions? I've overheard this a lot in discussions outside the exam hall.

    How much can you do in an hour? I studied a lot in the summer but with no immediate exam pressure I don't think I ever did more than a few pages in an hour, maybe an easy topic, writing notes. When there's immediate exam pressure more gets done in an hour than a full day previously.

    I know people are probably too tired and busy cramming at the moment to reply to this, I'm trying to work out how to cram for contract and how to prepare better for next time.

    When are the results?

    Edited to add: Obviously I know letting out half the book and only doing 4 questions etc is not recommended, I'm just wondering how many people do it anyway. Desperate times call for desperate measures!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭littlemac1980


    legallad wrote: »
    Key point for question 8 was provocation and battered wife syndrome centering on cases of thornton, O'donoghue and Ahluwalia. There is domestic violence legislation but that would be more centered to family law and totally relevant to the problem at hand.

    For Q6 i went with aggravated burglary as opposed to robbery and he adapted the innocent article, being the srewdriver, to threaten to cause injury so it became a weapon of offence. Then as you said false imprisonment, self induced duress and threats to kill under s.5 of NFOPA Act 1997.

    Q.2 was extremely busy, there were so many issues.

    Overall I thought it was a reasonably fair paper but you needed to know aot of the course to pick up on all the minor issues within the problem questions such as demands for payments under s.11 of 1997 act in q.2.

    Hows everyone fixed for property??

    Hey, was wondering about the Question 8, do you think it was alright to also ( In addition to Provocation obviously ) mention Diminished responsibility, as I know that the evidence said she wasn't insane but, thought that that might mean she could still rely on the s(6) of the insanity act. Particularly as it said her mental reasoning was impaired???

    About Question 6, isn't burglary trespassing and intent to commit arrestable offence or the alternative commiting an arrestable off while trespassing, so I kinda mentioned trespassing with intent to commit theft, and committing robbery while trespassing. What do ye think?

    Also when it comes to giving the relevant sections etc. how accurate do you have to be with the section text... and in particular giving the Actus Reus and Mens Rea + penalties... I found this quite time consuming and am sure I messed up plenty of them... Any thoughts?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    sunnyside wrote: »

    From doing the exams I've learned how little time there is to write so even if I knew every case in the book there wouldn't be time to write it.

    Do people actually leave out half the book like in college exams? I've covered a lot of topics for the exams I've done this week but then so little of it actually comes up:(

    Is it common to only do 4 questions? I've overheard this a lot in discussions outside the exam hall.

    How much can you do in an hour? I studied a lot in the summer but with no immediate exam pressure I don't think I ever did more than a few pages in an hour, maybe an easy topic, writing notes. When there's immediate exam pressure more gets done in an hour than a full day previously.

    I know people are probably too tired and busy cramming at the moment to reply to this, I'm trying to work out how to cram for contract and how to prepare better for next time.

    When are the results?

    1. I don't think it's that common to do 4 questions although there are a good few that do it, you're running a high risk of failing if you do 4 unfortunately (that is unless you have a really high standard in the 4 you do)

    2. What does it matter what you get done in an hour? Everyone learns differently IMO and what is important is whether you get it learned in time , whether that's in the last 4 weeks or 4 months. Personally I haven't a clue what I do in an hour

    3. Number of cases depend on the topic and how much important is placed on case law as opposed to statute/constitution. I would imagine that you'd wanna get 6-8 references between statute and case law per question, obviously less than this if it's your final question which is your weakest.

    4. Results are in December AFAIK

    5. I'm not sure by your post if you were used manuals or books....If you hadn't gotten manuals off somebody, learning from the full book isn't the easiest way because, as I mentioned here before, they're looking for breadth and not depth


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 2ndtimer


    Jev/N wrote: »
    Digilandmall I think is the one you're on about?

    In relation to mistake?


    edit: full citation is Chwee Kin Keong v Digilandmall Com Pte Ltd [2005] 1 SLR 502

    Thanks, thats the one Im looking for:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭sunnyside


    About Question 6, isn't burglary trespassing and intent to commit arrestable offence or the alternative commiting an arrestable off while trespassing, so I kinda mentioned trespassing with intent to commit theft, and committing robbery while trespassing. What do ye think?

    Also when it comes to giving the relevant sections etc. how accurate do you have to be with the section text... and in particular giving the Actus Reus and Mens Rea + penalties... I found this quite time consuming and am sure I messed up plenty of them... Any thoughts?

    Something like that, I think it was more than burgulary because he locked the guy in the bathroom. It didn't say he used force to do do this but it's kind of implied. Someone else said aggravated burgulary but I though you needed a gun or imitation gun for this. I don't think he could be done for both robbery and burgulary but I'd say explaining the reasons for both might be what they wanted.

    I'm not sure what's required either. I explained actus reus, mens rea for the offences I wrote about, the punishment and names of Acts but then there's no time for much case law even if I knew it! Looking around the exam hall a lot of people seem to be not writing that much or that fast.

    I'm so hoping to pass 3 but I think I'll have a better idea of the standard required when I get the results.

    Jev/N wrote: »
    2. What does it matter what you get done in an hour?


    4. Results are in December AFAIK

    5. I'm not sure by your post if you were used manuals or books....If you hadn't gotten manuals off somebody, learning from the full book isn't the easiest way because, as I mentioned here before, they're looking for breadth and not depth


    What can be done in a hour matters when there are very few hours left to the exam! It matters too because I want a more efficient study plan from now on. You know how some people are in the library all day but actually get so little done.

    December, that's ages to wait.

    Using Griffith manuals. The breath not depth thing is another thing I've wondered about. It's been my method but then you read examiners reports which say they were surprised at how little detail students knew, especially in EU.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7 fe1dublin


    Hey, was wondering about the Question 8, do you think it was alright to also ( In addition to Provocation obviously ) mention Diminished responsibility, as I know that the evidence said she wasn't insane but, thought that that might mean she could still rely on the s(6) of the insanity act. Particularly as it said her mental reasoning was impaired???

    About Question 6, isn't burglary trespassing and intent to commit arrestable offence or the alternative commiting an arrestable off while trespassing, so I kinda mentioned trespassing with intent to commit theft, and committing robbery while trespassing. What do ye think?

    Also when it comes to giving the relevant sections etc. how accurate do you have to be with the section text... and in particular giving the Actus Reus and Mens Rea + penalties... I found this quite time consuming and am sure I messed up plenty of them... Any thoughts?









    For the question in criminal with domestic abuse,(as well as provocation) I said disassociative state as seen in R v. Falconer, as we know she wasnt insane so the external factor of violence caused a disassociative state and reliance therefore on automatism.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    sunnyside wrote: »
    What can be done in a hour matters when there are very few hours left to the exam! It matters too because I want a more efficient study plan from now on. You know how some people are in the library all day but actually get so little done.

    December, that's ages to wait.

    It's still a bit of a cryptic question though! I'd get loads done in the 2-3 hours before the exam but that's simply due to studying fairly consistently over the summer and the ground work is done. In contrast, I got very little done per hour a couple of months ago. I don't think it's about how much you get done in the hour, rather the quality of what you learn.

    Personally, I don't study for more than 40 mins at a time without a break to watch TV/play Xbox/surf the net as this works for me.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭brian__foley


    sunnyside wrote: »
    I'm back with more general questions.

    The case law again, just how much of it do I need to be learning? I did today's criminal paper with very little case law. I did the problem questions mostly. The capital murder question, I mentioned the Murrays, wrote a bit about them but that was all. I know there was accomplice case law but I didn't remember any and I was writing like crazy in the last few minutes to get all the issues mentioned.

    I'm good at identifying issues and I think my answers were good, I did 5 questions but not having done law exams before using case law is new to me. Then I did the classification of a crime question really well I think but that didn't have case law in the manual except for the Melling v O'Mathghauma case they quoted and the O'Sullivan v Hartnett case about the 900 salmon v 1 salmon.

    This isn't intended as 100% gospel but from what I know the examiner values the paper which hits the right issues and refers to some (if not all) relevant cases, over the paper which hits only a few issues and has loads of cases, all saying the same thing. I'll leave it at that, but three cases on minor non-minor is probably ok not because "thee is enough" but because those cases probably suffice to show you know what you're talking about. Anyway, no-one knows what the jurisdiction of the District Court is anymore - it is a classic area of where constitutional principles are shaped by the legislature. Sure, you can get up to €5K on s.49 drunk driving now and its been like that for a while with no challenge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭brian__foley


    Jev/N wrote: »
    4. Results are in December AFAIK

    Possibly the case that it may be earlier. Nothing but rumour, but a possibility.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 2ndtimer


    Exemption and Limitation clause the practical consequences of difference.

    Hi all,

    Confusion slightly over consequences of each. Limitation clauses are to limit liability, exemption clauses are to exempt from a duty or responsibility, atleast thats my limited understanding Courts use strict line in determining incorporation and to the interpretation of fact and at law.

    Anyone aware of the practical consequences? Im slightly at a loss

    Thanks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 sarcastra


    Property was another joy today.

    Co-ownership and adverse possession in the one question and both from obscure angles. I knew so little about the actual aspect of the topic asked, I could only have written one line for each - damn you!

    I had to do covenants instead. That was fun.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭legallad


    sunnyside wrote: »
    Something like that, I think it was more than burgulary because he locked the guy in the bathroom. It didn't say he used force to do do this but it's kind of implied. Someone else said aggravated burgulary but I though you needed a gun or imitation gun for this. I don't think he could be done for both robbery and burgulary but I'd say explaining the reasons for both might be what they wanted. "




    Well locking in the bathroom constitutes false imprisonment as per s.15. Also it would definitely amount to aggravted burgalry it does not just have to be a firearm or imitation firearm as per cases R v Leary and R v Kelly where a screwdriver was used. But you can also say robbery, you cant be convicted of both robbery and burglary and no element of teft is required for burglary. Mention more is bette I doubt if they would fault you for mentioning all of potential offences.

    Had property today, very difficult paper was the general consensus. Felt I did well but I was lucky with my topics, some of my friends were definitely caught out. Roll on contract for 5 exams in a week!! totaly exhausted at this stage!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    That Property examiner really gets on my tits. I know he mentioned in one of the Reports that he reads online messageboards to gauge student opinion, so I can only presume he means this one. Judging by people's reaction after the exam, and the amount of people who left early I don't think tihs was the most popular exam he's ever put on.

    Last April he repeats the exact same paper, question for question, word for word (well, bar q.1). What sort of pr!ck does that? I understand his thinking, mess with students who try to second guess the exam and leave out stuff that came up last year. Fair enough, but why didn't he just ask new questions on the same topic? By not even taking the time to change "Mary" to "Joan" in problem questions he gives the attitude that he really couldn't give a toss about the exam and the just phones in saying "lol give them last years paper again kthxbai" instead of being arsed to write a question like he's payed to do. Considering the time, great expense and emotional effort put in by students, it'd be nice if the examiner/Law Soc could at least give the impression that the exams weren't being treated like a piss take.

    As for his exam today, I thought it was nasty. The essay questions were all from a weird angle, on very specific topics, something I hadn't found was the approach in other FE1s. Then the problem question on Succession was very vague about the people involved's circumstances, ambigous as to what the Nurse saw too. It says she leaves as Henry is signing, but returns after Bertie has signed his name - why not just say she returned after Henry signed his name?

    Anyway, I definitely failed, so get the joy of resitting that and EU next April.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 sarcastra


    I wonder was part of the reason why the Property paper was so tough to ensure that unless you really know what you're talking about you should have to resit the exam when the Land Law and Conveyancing Reform Act comes into effect. It's the last FE1 paper without it in operation I suppose so there's essential elements missing from study that would be relevant in practice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    Is the syllabus being changed for next March's exam? Will there be any point in still asking questions on Fee Tail etc or will that just be culled from the course?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    Holy shítsticks that was a bad paper!

    Still hoping to pass the thing as I got 5 questions down in the time but there was some amount of waffle and making it up as I went along. I couldn't believe how bad it was when I seen the first page - RTA 2004 and Freehold/Hybrid Estates, two parts of bigger topics which I had studied but left those bits out!

    I think the only two questions where I scored any decent marks were the covenants and succession problems. The s.117 essay was very tough IMO. Had to scrape through the AP and Co-Ownership question knowing only some of the info. Did the note question with survivorship and profits a prendre as my last - basically wrote about easements "with a slant" for the profits answer!

    Does anyone know how they grade, and whether you're rated against eachother i.e. bell curved?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 sarcastra


    vote4pedro wrote: »
    Is the syllabus being changed for next March's exam? Will there be any point in still asking questions on Fee Tail etc or will that just be culled from the course?

    I would imagine that would all be removed? It would make sense as the act comes into effect on 1 December 2009. Especially the way it was mentioned on the front of the paper. Who knows though. I really hope to God I've passed. I bet you have done better than you think?

    Did you find EU a nightmare too then? I left both Property and EU as my last FE1s as they annoy me so if I have to sit them again it'll kill me.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 sarcastra


    Jev/N wrote: »
    Holy shítsticks that was a bad paper!

    Does anyone know how they grade, and whether you're rated against eachother i.e. bell curved?

    Funny, how they grade is not something that's ever been disclosed about the ol' FE-1s as far as I know...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    Jev/N wrote: »
    Holy shítsticks that was a bad paper!

    Still hoping to pass the thing as I got 5 questions down in the time but there was some amount of waffle and making it up as I went along. I couldn't believe how bad it was when I seen the first page - RTA 2004 and Freehold/Hybrid Estates, two parts of bigger topics which I had studied but left those bits out!

    I think the only two questions where I scored any decent marks were the covenants and succession problems. The s.117 essay was very tough IMO. Had to scrape through the AP and Co-Ownership question knowing only some of the info. Did the note question with survivorship and profits a prendre as my last - basically wrote about easements "with a slant" for the profits answer!

    Does anyone know how they grade, and whether you're rated against eachother i.e. bell curved?

    As far as I know it's bell curved, without it there'll be a huge drop off in pass rate I'd guess! I had to do the s.117 essay, which went terribly, then for my fifth I had to do a pitiful bullet point attempt at the RTA 2004 despite knowing nothing about. Absolute disaster, don't think I'll have gotten above 30%. Oh well, six months to just go over the same stuff to make sure the bastard doesn't screw me again!
    Did you find EU a nightmare too then? I left both Property and EU as my last FE1s as they annoy me so if I have to sit them again it'll kill me.

    I didn't even sit EU! I fell way, way too far behind and decided to put all my efforts in to Equity and Company, both of which I'm pretty sure I passed, and apparently the EU paper was tough so I wouldn't have fluked a pass in it anyway. So yeah two left next April, if I don't pass them then I lose my Training Contract (I presume they're strict re that you have to pass in 3 sittings thing). Eep. Going to quit work/going out from January onwards and just kill myself to make sure I get them next time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    The main issue for me is that I've contract tomorrow which is the 4th exam of my first sitting. Erring on the side of caution and assuming I failed Property, there's no way I can slip up tomorrow! :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭Player_86


    I thought Property was really disappointing, for a few reasons.

    Normally, there's an internal choice within questions, meaning that you essentially have 9 or 10 questions to choose from, rather than 8. That wasn't the case with this paper.

    The succession questions were quite difficult, I thought. For question 7, candidates had to refer to case law, principle and commentary. Does this guy not realise the pressure candidates are under trying to get to grips with complicated aspects of property law such as acquiring easements by prescription etc?

    The splitting of adverse possession with quite a specific part of co-ownership was also a disappointment. Surely the Partiton Acts would have been better examined as part of a short question.

    And the short questions were tricky. "Discuss the continuing significance in modern Irish land law, if any, of the creation of fee farm estates in law and in equity" - that's not easy, in my opinion.

    There's no point in moaning about it, I suppose, but it's genuinely disappointing to work hard at something and not be rewarded. I hope the examiner takes these things into account and doesn't fail 80% of the people taking the exam (having talked to people outside the exam, everyone seems to have more or less the same opinion).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 very worried


    I sat EU for the first time this week and it went terribly. Misread a question and had only 3 decent answers. Just really want to hear of what exactly it takes to pass EU. Have resigned myself to the fact I have failed it and just hope I passed the other three so just want to know if it is the toughest of them so I know to do more study next time. Any reply on what exactly it takes to pass these exams in terms of how many good answers you have to do etc and past experiences would be really appreciated. Thanks!


  • Registered Users Posts: 526 ✭✭✭mandz


    sunnyside wrote: »
    Anybody know what the key point for Q8 the domestic violence question was? I know there was some law change or ammendment to deal with this situation but I don't know what it was so didn't do that question.

    And Q6 about the guy in the gang--was that burgulary or robbery? To me it began as type 1 burgulary with intent before breaking in, then kind of became a type 2 burgulary after he formed a new intention inside the property but locking the guy in the bathroom involves force so isn't that robbery? It was confusing. I also mentioned false imprisonment and self induced duress.


    Did the domestic violence question as my last question as I wasn't too confident on the area. Said she could use provocation and battered wife syndrome.


    Question 6 I said that it was type one burglary for his original entry, aggravated burglary once the screwdriver was used as a weapon, couldn't remember the section for threatening to kill so guessed it but mentioned it was an offence, false imprisonment when he locked Denis into the bathroom, the fact that Denis did not resist does not matter as his consent was not voluntary. Said he would have a the defence of duress but that this could not be availed of as he had left himself open to such circumstances when he joined the gang as in the Northern Ireland case of the guy joining the IRA. Think I also may have mentioned the possibility of assault under Section 2.


  • Registered Users Posts: 526 ✭✭✭mandz


    As if there aren't enough confusing elements to a Criminal Law FE1 they go and give the same name to two problem characters in the in one paper. W@nkers.

    Which question?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    Player_86 wrote: »
    I thought Property was really disappointing, for a few reasons.

    Normally, there's an internal choice within questions, meaning that you essentially have 9 or 10 questions to choose from, rather than 8. That wasn't the case with this paper.

    The succession questions were quite difficult, I thought. For question 7, candidates had to refer to case law, principle and commentary. Does this guy not realise the pressure candidates are under trying to get to grips with complicated aspects of property law such as acquiring easements by prescription etc?

    The splitting of adverse possession with quite a specific part of co-ownership was also a disappointment. Surely the Partiton Acts would have been better examined as part of a short question.

    And the short questions were tricky. "Discuss the continuing significance in modern Irish land law, if any, of the creation of fee farm estates in law and in equity" - that's not easy, in my opinion.

    There's no point in moaning about it, I suppose, but it's genuinely disappointing to work hard at something and not be rewarded. I hope the examiner takes these things into account and doesn't fail 80% of the people taking the exam (having talked to people outside the exam, everyone seems to have more or less the same opinion).

    I'd agree with all that, like I said I thought it was a nasty paper really out to try and mess students around. Very dissapointing having put a fair amount of work in to it all to get f**ked over because I didn't read the bloody Partition Acts in general. Will be interesting to read his examiner report this time round, hopefully he spends some time explaining what the hell was up with that paper instead of making terrible jokes (it was property that the examiner moaned about people misspelling tenants like the beer "and a poor one at that" or something along those lines?)

    BTW, does anyone still have their EU paper and able to post up what case notes came up?


  • Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭law86


    I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking that the property exam was pure evil. The section 117 question was the only one I think I gave a good answer for. On the upside, the troll who set that paper will have to wade through many, many desperate, scraping the bottom of the barrel answers.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 526 ✭✭✭mandz


    sarcastra wrote: »
    Well, any thoughts on EU exam? I thought they rolled a lot of topics into the questions... They were also phrased from difficult angles, like A.226-228 being mainly from a case law perspective. I didnt have one case to quote! Ah well...

    Yeah, wasn't a fan of this paper at all. For article 226-228 I could only think of a couple Star Fruits, Petrie for unfettered discretion, Ireland v Commision (or maybe its should be the other way round haven't looked at EU since!!) for unfair procedures against member state and Commission v France for Article 228.
    Shinners23 wrote: »

    Also, the question on John and his case on the motorway, can anyone tell me what I should of wrote?!!!!

    I didn't do this question thoroughly was answered by bullet points as it was 12.15 by the time I got to it!! Think I said court would have to refer the matter but I didn't think the ECJ would opine on it because it would infringe on national procedures and the directive failed the direct effect requirements as it was not clear and unambiguous.

    I'm not feeling too confident about this paper its my third time sitting it and the more times I sit it the more I hate EU law.


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