Interesting television, perhaps...

I love tongues, class :pac:

I felt uncomfortable watching the show. It reminded me that religious memes are very similar, even though they claim not to be.

I didn't think the Christians running the Alpha course were no better than the Scientologist. Preying (or should that be praying) on people who are troubled in one way or another, claiming that they have the answer.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Well they definitely have an answer, you can say that for sure. I suppose I could have all the answers too if I didn't have to back up anything I was saying or follow the rules of logic

That's very true. What annoys me though is that an answer is billed as the answer. What annoys me even more is that it's accepted as a good answer. Good answers are logical and can be used to predict future events.

Húrin wrote: »

What's wrong with trying to help people? What's wrong with a troubled person trying to help themselves by looking to see if Christianity has an answer?

I'm glad you asked

Let's put aside (for the moment) if the God of the Bible exists or not. I think some techniques used in the course were manipulative. If we go back to my favourite example, Scientology I might be able to clarify what I mean. In Scientology they have techniques for getting people into the "religion". In Scientology speak it's about "finding a persons ruin", i.e. finding someone's weakness and exploiting it.

When I watched the documentary yesterday I felt the alpha course did something similar. They used emotions that all people feel from time to time (loneliness, lack of purpose etc) and then implied that they could help them. They then used techniques like love bombing. I also didn't like that any time some one felt something when they were their hypnotic rituals (the group silence, speaking in tongues over music etc) they implied it was God (or the holy spirit).

In my opinion they are selling snake oil, except if the snake oil doesn't work you can't complain as you'll be told there is nothing wrong with the miracle cure, it's you who is doing it wrong.

The whole speaking in tongues also annoyed me, but that's a thread in itself.

Húrin wrote: »

Thus it should not be permitted to give any answer?

No, it should not be permitted to make out that it has the answer. It should make it clear that it is one of many unsubstantiated answers

Húrin wrote: »

Again, what's the problem with acknowledging real problems and trying to help?

Acknowledging problems that everyone has and making out that they have the solution. It's what all cults do. I suppose you think this one is different because you think they actually do have the answer

Húrin wrote: »

They're Christians. Of course they believe in God.

Believing in God does not mean that everything should be attributed to him. How likely do you think it is that the person was actually being made speak in tongues by God?

It was interesting. Always wondered what went on at them courses. Tongues? Oh dear.

My hero, Derren Brown's take on it here.

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

My hero, Derren Brown's take on it here.

Cheers for that, anyone dare to put it in the Christianity forum and ask them to respond, especially to his closing thought...

Derren Brown wrote:

There was an interesting exchange between a questioning attendee and one of the Christians designated to gently persuade them during the small group meetings. The Christian said that God had spoken to him on a bus. He had been asked to carry out an assignment which he felt was probably too much for him, and God has spoken to him, ‘as a voice inside his head’, to say ‘you can’t do it’. The question was asked – a perfectly sensible one – how did he know it came from God, as opposed to from himself? The question was treated as patronising and offensive, by the very people placed there to answer sensible questions. It was brilliantly symptomatic of the problem: that rational discussion has no place at the table. Just believe it because it’s true. End of story.

pts wrote: »

Also kudos to The Mad Hatter for the link to the excellent Derren Brown article. For anyone who hasn't already seen it I can't recommend the Derren interviewed by Richard Dawkins and "Messiah" enough. People like Derren show that people can be manipulated, the only difference between Scientology and Christianity is that Christians are ok with their manipulation since God exists, but not the Scinetologists manipulation because Xenu is obviously made up.

I really must see Messiah actually - I think it's the only one of his specials I haven't seen.

And everyone in the world should read his book, Tricks of the Mind.

Edit

jill_valentine wrote: »

I'd highly recommend Browne's book, Tricks of the Mind. One of my favourite books of the last decade, really fascinating, and always entertaining. The guy turned out to be a million times more interesting than I'd realised, and very damn funny.

Yeah. Also made me realise he wasn't a fraud. I love the way he kind of starts in character, but it just turns into a rant about psychics half way through.