ATC recruitment with IAA

Poloman · 05-03-2009 4:14pm

Well done! Ya I think we are all equal at this stage. The remaining people have shown interest and were able to talk about the IAA. I think it will be a personal interview next round. I wouldnt like to be picking 12 of us!

I heard previously that 42 will be going forward to final interview with 12 positions up for grabs.

"Ie first preliminary interview is last final interview? " .. I dont understand what you mean here?

Anyone know when we would hear back? The waiting for the final results will be torture!

orenkay · 05-03-2009 4:41pm

well i was 4th last for the preliminary interview and seem to be the same time on the last day again...a Friday!!! so not sure there jesus about your theory so!!! i am supposed to be working that day (one of the 2 days a week i do actually get work) so contacted them to rearrange and they said they cant change anything as the interviews go over 3 days and are fairly condenced unless somebody opts out!!!
oh and them test questions...i managed to get them all right but i havn't a clue about what 10/20 degrees west etc is...and stil dont know...was lucky to guess them 3/4 questions right!!!
went out to the facility in ballygireen after the interview...if any of ye need directions it pretty easy...take the galway road from limerick and an exit is signposted for ballygireen (its after shannon) and follow the signs!!! the faciility is on the right down that road but its fairly small...i missed it when i passed but the passanger saw it...theres a big field full of ariels which ya wont miss though!!! the place itself seems fairly small and had a big gate at the front so didnt bother and just turned around...not sure if ya can actually get in or not the way aeronautical safety is gone nowadays so jus turned around!!!

Jesus1222 · 05-03-2009 4:49pm

Just curious as to the order, whether it implies any ranking of candidates. It's almost certainly paranoia on my part!

orenkay · 05-03-2009 5:21pm

that makes me nearly bottom rank on each occasion...i hope its not like that!!!

Jesus1222 · 05-03-2009 6:08pm

Poloman wrote: »

Well done! Ya I think we are all equal at this stage. The remaining people have shown interest and were able to talk about the IAA. I think it will be a personal interview next round. I wouldnt like to be picking 12 of us!

I heard previously that 42 will be going forward to final interview with 12 positions up for grabs.

"Ie first preliminary interview is last final interview? " .. I dont understand what you mean here?

Anyone know when we would hear back? The waiting for the final results will be torture!

Where did you hear 42?

Training provisionally is set to begin on May 11th. Factoring in at least 3 weeks notice for the starters that gives 5 weeks between the end of interviews and contracts being sent out. In that time there are medicals, Garda security clearances and references to be sorted out so I'd imagine you would hear back within 2 weeks from the end of the interview process but that's just an educated guess.

Poloman · 06-03-2009 12:01pm

A friend knows a lad whose dad is high up in the IAA. And ya he has a final interview as well :-(

I reckon we would hear the week after. If they can decide within a few days from 142 people they will easily decide between 42 of us in a few days also.

Jesus1222 · 06-03-2009 7:12pm

Do you think that's a factor?

Poloman · 06-03-2009 7:23pm

Yes and he might not be the only one. But obviously interviews will have to be good which the will if the have inside knowledge of everything! Such is life.

Jesus1222 · 06-03-2009 7:45pm

Very disappointed to hear that. That's not to say they wouldn't deserve a spot anyway but it's going to be difficult enough as it is. Hopefully there aren't 12 in a similar situation.

Poloman · 06-03-2009 8:26pm

Thats just my opinion! I could be totally wrong as sometimes dont they say that they dont like other peoples siblings coming into their organisation in case they clash or something like that?

Its just my best guess as he and possibly more will be prepped to the last by someone with 20-30 years experience!

Pigdog · 10-03-2009 11:36pm

I wouldn't be worried about anyone who has a relative there. The process seems more than fair enough, and I, personally, wouldn't feel that anyone got in because of who they know! If they get prepped by someone who works there, then good luck to them. Now, if all 12 trainees taken on are the offspring of IAA employees then there should be some questions aked!!

So, has anyone actually gone to visit Ballygireen yet?

orenkay · 12-03-2009 12:58am

So, has anyone actually gone to visit Ballygireen yet?[/quote]

see my comment up above...nobody has said anythin yet!!!

has anyone done their final interview yet??? jus revisin stuff for mine here now on friday!!!

jess_cork · 12-03-2009 9:31pm

Yes I went to visit Ballygireen last week, think everyone must have if they are serious about the job, no?

Did my final interview today, remarkably similar to the first one to be honest just with a panel new to me. Don't feel overly confident, felt more positive after the last experience. Anyhow guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Best of luck to everyone else!

Poloman · 13-03-2009 11:10am

Hey All

Ya I went to Ballyg after my first interview.

I had my final interview as well. Its a new panel to everyone Jess they are more senior. Not at all what I expected. I was leaping for joy after my first interview now I dont feel confident at all. I think it could have gone better and i feel I rambled on a bit and strayed from questions posed. I really think my interview was that crap. :-(

The fella before me came out as if he had just been shot! I said hello and he put his head down and kept walking. That didnt fill me with confidence when I went in ha ha but it wasnt bad. One interviewer was actually closing his eyes when I was answering another chaps questions. Or maybe I was actually that boring :-(

I think it was a weird interview. I did a lot of preperation but seems I need not have bothered.

Anyway good luck to the rest of you and we can come back here to congratulate and commiserate each other when the results are out (end of next week or the start of the following week I was told).

Anyway its a great achievement to get this far so at least we can be proud in that.

Pigdog · 13-03-2009 5:18pm

Yeah, I completely agree with you Jess, anyone who didn't visit can't have been that serious. I had already visited when I made the last post, I was surprised noone had mentioned it. Then I realised that maybe folks were keeping 'shtum' about it. Fair enough.

The interviews! Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling a bit ragged afterwards. The conversation took some strange turns. I don't want to say too much because there are still interviews going on until tomorrow. I'm just glad I took a scone this time!(with cream and jam, thank you very much) I was too nervous to have one last time!!

Ballygirreen was a fascinating place, not at all what I expected. I was very impressed.

Jesus1222 · 13-03-2009 8:28pm

Had mine, two guys I went very well with but one guy not so good. It wasn't a disaster but
I got the impression he was thinking I wasn't for the IAA. Pretty much blew it I think, I had
expected it but didn't give good responses or answers that I prepared. Gutted but it was
a great experience and I'll be on top of things for ATC process if it happens.

Results next Friday so best of luck to everyone. Its a great opportunity.

Poloman · 13-03-2009 11:20pm

Ha ha.. looks like we all think we didn't blow them away to say the least like our first interviews! The panel must be thinking "Huh? How did these eejits even pass the aptitude test!!"

Im glad I'm not the only one that came out thinking he will never see Ballygireen again :pac:

Anyway fair play folks, it was nerve racking but we got through it. Now to relax until friday evening as I cant check my private mail in work. Will post back the final mail I receive.

Poloman · 16-03-2009 11:32am

Editing to try and keep privacy of certain individuals.

Oxy1 · 16-03-2009 1:21pm

Yeah, well don't let that surprise you, Poloman.. I think we all expected that one. :rolleyes:

Nothing about this process was fair. I think by now the IAA realise that the best people in this race were eliminated at an early stage, hence the lack of enthusiasm from some panel members at final interview.

Had they bothered to put *any* time into looking at individual applications, rather than simply filtering the majority out based on a generic aptitude test held by an outside company, they wouldn't have struggled with picking people from an unsuitable pool at the final interviews. And that's no-one's fault but the IAA.

The people at final interview may have known which shape was the odd one out, but there were numerous radio officers and air-traffic-controllers out there who applied, knowing this job quite literally inside-out. Many of those who had never seen an aptitude test before were without doubt the people for the job. Their unread applications said it all.

The skills of this job were never learnable in a one year course, and the IAA are probably realising that now, months after the rest of us. Too late boys!

Maybe it'll take a recruitment mess like this one for you to make a little more effort in future and actually view some applications, take more into consideration than a ridiculous generic aptitude test that tells you absolutely nothing about how well suited to this position an applicant was, and have some people of substance at the final interviews preventing you from hiring your own..?

Well, it's a nice thought... :rolleyes:

kujosHeist · 16-03-2009 4:47pm

hey all, stumbled across this thread about a month back to my surprise, only after giving it a proper read there now though, have to say the honesty of the regulars in this thread is refreshing and i wish all the best of luck, had me own final interview there friday and came out of feeling good enough, was thrown abit by the three new faces but i thought they were all nice guys. I think we can all agree though that the woman from dublin who checked us in for the interviews was a legend and she deserves a shout out, she done her best to relax me and make me feel welcome on both ocasions

Pigdog · 16-03-2009 10:50pm

Absolutely agree! H. was a true legend. Poor thing travelling up and down on the train all the time. I'll take you up on that BIG SHOUT for her, Kujos.

Not sure I agree with Oxy1's comments though.

Doesn't every employer have the right to choose their employees, and set whatever standards they wish? If they decide to have a test in, say, written Swahili that's their perogative, isn't it? How can that be unfair since it's applied to all? You may not like it, (as would anyone who wants the job but doesn't have Swahili!) but that alone doesn't make it unfair!

I'm not contradicting you Oxy, and this is a genuine question, but how do you know that there were 'numerous' radio officers and ATC's that applied? I know that there were some, but I'm just wondering why you think there were so many.

And also why do you think the skills of this job are unlearnable in one year?

And why would the aptitude test have eliminated all 'people of substance', as you implied?

Having spoken to some people more knowledgeable than myself in the ways of recruitment, they felt that the style of the final interview was such so as to probe quite deeply in a short period of time. The questions were quick, short and to the point. If the interviewers feel that the applicant has sufficient knowledge of the subject in question they move on very quickly to another one, sometimes interrupting the applicant. (They're not there to learn the answers to the questions) It has the effect of being very tiring on the applicant, and quite disorientating. That's why most of us came out feeling none too confident.

Having said that, I'm certainly not expecting any positive answer this friday, and I wish all the best to the 12 that do.

jess_cork · 17-03-2009 12:40am

Totally agree with the thanks to the lovely lady from HR and indeed to all the HR staff who I've been in contact with.

I don't feel qualified to comment on the recruitment process so won't, but unfortunately no process is perfect and there will always be people who, perhaps rightly perhaps wrongly, feel short changed.

Concerning the training in one year, this process is not untested. I understand that it has been adopted from the training that is used in the facility in Iceland where non experienced radio officers have been employed.

Interesting to hear about the person who has already been accepted. IF (and that is a big "IF") that is a true senario, it does not say much for his general cop on to go advertising the fact before the e-mails are sent out!

atk · 17-03-2009 1:39pm

Hi All,

Boards newbie here. I read through this thread yesterday. Best of luck to all those who got the job! Just wondering if there was any developments on the story that the IAA might begin recruiting for student ATCs in the not too distant future?

thanks

atk

Poloman · 18-03-2009 10:51am

Good call! I completely agree. The IAA said they will be reading this after the recruitment process is finished so I also would like to thank the girl from Hr who chatted away and made us all feel as comfortable as possible before our interviews. She deserves a big thank you from all of us!!

Jesus1222 · 18-03-2009 11:56am

Yes she was excellent. I was chatting to her to get rid of my nervousness before the interview and she was very good. Thanks!

Jesus1222 · 18-03-2009 12:17pm

I can't agree with this. For a start how do you know what the job entails these days? Do you have access to HR files in the IAA? How do you know there weren't ant ATCOs or pilots with a final interview? I heard there were.

If the IAA, airlines, maintenance companies and so on operating here were to go direct entry for every single ATC, radio officer position, technician and pilot position from now until the year 3000 what logic would that serve? Where would new recruits come from? How would you gain access to the aviation industry in Ireland? You wouldn't. Yes there are experienced radio operators out there but that doesn't mean you can walk into Ballygirreen, sit down and start doing the job. Your comment about having no "people of substance" is terribly arrogant imo. For example I spoke to a qualified solicitor who was doing the aptitude tests. I don't think having a sense of entitlement about the job just because you are a radio officer somewhere else is a good thing. They went this route for a reason imo. There are and have been other positions that the IAA have gone direct entry for. Including ATC afaik.

I didn't find the aptitude tests too hard. Maybe they want fresh, younger candidates with an eagerness to learn?

I will say 1 thing about the process though, it's probably a very bad sign as far as my final interview went but I was very disappointed they didn't ask me about anything outside of work/academic environment. I had lots of things I could have talked about which would reflect well on me but I never got the opportunity. Maybe others did but I thought they would have asked about these sort of things routinely.

The bad part of my interview I mentioned above was when they tried to suss out my general interest in the aviation industry and flying generally. I got the distinct impression from this part that they were looking for people who have a very strong interest (naturally enough and fair enough) in aviation and who were and would look for other positions in the industry such as pilot or ATC if they didn't get this. They were looking to root out carpetbaggers taking shelter in this position in bad economic times, I feel. That's fair enough imo and I had thought about this but I just didn't answer the questions properly.

It's because of this part I'm sure I didn't get it. I really didn't get my interest in aviation across well at all even though I had thought about this a lot and what I would say when it came up. Maybe I was caught off guard by his line of questions initially, he questioned me about ATC (what did they do - I was a little bit surprised at this as this is not an ATC job and I only knew the very, very basics about what an ATC actually does) - why I didn't go to the last ATC process, why I wouldn't do a PPL and so on. I went very well with the other 2 guys but very badly with this guy and this part. I messed up definitely. Ah well...I'll definitely be going for the ATC process if it happens and I'll be much more comfortable with everything next time around and hopefully nail a final interview if I get that far again.

Oxy1 wrote: »

Yeah, well don't let that surprise you, Poloman.. I think we all expected that one. :rolleyes:

Nothing about this process was fair. I think by now the IAA realise that the best people in this race were eliminated at an early stage, hence the lack of enthusiasm from some panel members at final interview.

Had they bothered to put *any* time into looking at individual applications, rather than simply filtering the majority out based on a generic aptitude test held by an outside company, they wouldn't have struggled with picking people from an unsuitable pool at the final interviews. And that's no-one's fault but the IAA.

The people at final interview may have known which shape was the odd one out, but there were numerous radio officers and air-traffic-controllers out there who applied, knowing this job quite literally inside-out. Many of those who had never seen an aptitude test before were without doubt the people for the job. Their unread applications said it all.

The skills of this job were never learnable in a one year course, and the IAA are probably realising that now, months after the rest of us. Too late boys!

Maybe it'll take a recruitment mess like this one for you to make a little more effort in future and actually view some applications, take more into consideration than a ridiculous generic aptitude test that tells you absolutely nothing about how well suited to this position an applicant was, and have some people of substance at the final interviews preventing you from hiring your own..?

Well, it's a nice thought... :rolleyes:

Poloman · 18-03-2009 12:32pm

Same as you jesus. I think it went badly with one or not two people for me. I certainly felt I didnt get across any interest in Aviation and they also talked about my previous jobs and what I did day to day in the last number of positions I held. I have a degree and it has absolutely and completey got nothing to do with aviation. I think they are looking for a Joe Soap who is intelligent and who they think will stay in this position for a couple of decades and not look to change careers. They dont want someone to come in and see if they like it and then drop out after a certain amount of time. I wonder if there is anyone who got this far who would be thinking like that. I wouldnt anyway thats for sure. I think they kept focusing on the fact that I have a good job now and would be taking a massive pay cut so why would I want to change. I didnt feel I gave an adequate answer that I am sick of my career path and want out but there is not much else I can do. A job like this is a once off and it would be a great career change for me and i think I would realy enjoy it.. the training more so than anything else. There is more to life than money.

Anyway you just dont know do you. We have to bite our nails and wait until Friday or early next week at the latest they said. But I have no hope of getting it for a few different reasons.

Jesus1222 · 18-03-2009 12:39pm

Poloman wrote: »

Ha ha.. looks like we all think we didn't blow them away to say the least like our first interviews! The panel must be thinking "Huh? How did these eejits even pass the aptitude test!!"

Im glad I'm not the only one that came out thinking he will never see Ballygireen again :pac:

Anyway fair play folks, it was nerve racking but we got through it. Now to relax until friday evening as I cant check my private mail in work. Will post back the final mail I receive.

Btw you can forward your email from Gmail and probably a lot of other private email services.

EI573 · 18-03-2009 3:22pm

I suppose I'll pipe in here again as the process is now at an end.

One thing I want to anonymously say as I know the IAA are reading this; there were a lot more people pre-aptitude test who were absolutely perfect for this job than there were in the final interviews.

I have no doubt in my mind (and I'm not alone in thinking this) that the test took out several people who were absolutely ideal for the position. I can't comment on how they scored on the day of the aptitude test (though I'd be willing to bet they came within a hair of passing the mark), all I know for certain is that the applications they submitted said it all. And they never got the chance to have any of this seen to.

I know it's often necessary to use an aptitude test to filter out a huge amount of people (the ESB have to do this, with thousands upon thousands of applicants), but I know for a fact that in (at least some) other industries, people who score well but not quite well enough, still have their application reviewed, and a type of 'wild card' is put in place where a certain amount of these people will be called forward to the next stage, providing they tick all of the other boxes.

Had the aptitude test had anything to do with this position (for example in the way that the ATC test is a very good indication of how one will handle the job itself), that'd be one thing, but I don't think the Radio Officer aptitude test was a fair way of ruling some amazing people out. And I'm not just talking about the radio officers who applied, who have already been mentioned.

I'm gauging my evidence from people who have personally approach me, to ask about the job. There were people who knew the job better than most who have 25 years of employment at Ballygirreen who didn't make it through the aptitude test stage, and there were people who had no idea in the world about HF, propagation, aviation or co-ordinates who made it to the final interview.
Sure, you can learn this stuff, but I think it's a great help to already have a good understanding of and interest in the topics. A year is a very short amount of time to start from scratch.

I guess I'd love to have seen a slightly larger amount of people interviewed in person, and less emphasis placed upon a generalised aptitude test.
This would have made the final interviewing process much easier for the IAA, and perhaps prevented some of the unfair decisions which have been made (some of you will know what I'm referring to here).

In reference to the issue that both Poloman and Oxy1 have referred to;
I won't get into it apart from saying that I think it's completely wrong, but it was known and completely expected by all from the offset.
Pity they didn't implement some of the rules that are usually enforced by radio and TV stations when entering competitions.
I think all it does is further stress what I've said above. But then, all processes are unfair.

Poloman · 18-03-2009 4:12pm

My 2 cents.

I guess at the end of the day its not rocket science. The job would get very repetitve after a short amount of time but what job is not repetitive to some extent. People need to be smart and be able to concentrate on the task and work quickly and basically pass on a message.. not much more to it than that if you are being honest.

Some people are saying its unfair but how do you go about being completely fair? If some people did not have to do the aptitude test how would that look on the IAA? Personally I would take it that people who got the wild card had favourtism and they cant be seen to do that.

Its a tough one to approach but I cant understand if someone has prior experience in this role why would they be applying for this position? I'm very happy I made it this far it just seems that from our experiences in the final interviews we didnt blow them away. Dont get me wrong I answered everything that was asked of me but I felt the first interview was actually harder than the last interview, which is strange as we had the same amount of time in the first interview as the final one.

If I dont get it I will honestly, honestly be gutted after trying so hard but then again so did many others. If I get it great, if I dont life goes on and it wasn't meant to be. I'll get over it eventually. I do think people replying on this who have got this far seem like good people so I would wish them the best of luck.

And EI573 its nice to actually see someone who cares about his job and wanting to work with strong people. To be honest I am sure 12 good people will be picked so I wouldnt be thinking that they picked 12 names out of a hat. As things stand it wont be any of us anyway ha ha. Sounds like the IAA werent happy with any of the last 40 the way you are putting it.

Edit: And I have disagree and say that a year is a long time if you actually study hard for it. And just because someone is offered the training position does not mean they have the job. They still have to pass examinations and get credited for their study. Everyone has to start from scratch at some point.

ATC recruitment with IAA

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