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What's your ideal vision of the EU?
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Iwasfrozen wrote: »My ideal vision of the EU, is of one "supernation" like the USA.
It really just smackes of repression for some reason.0 -
I hope I'm not alone in my dislike for this notion (even amongst yes voters).
It really just smackes of repression for some reason.
I definitely don't want a USofE because as far as I'm concerned that would involve removing the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality. They're crucial for maintaining the political difference between the USA and the EU.
Even if those principles were done away with, I can't see a USofE happening. The member states are too different culturally.0 -
I definitely don't want a USofE because as far as I'm concerned that would involve removing the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality. They're crucial for maintaining the political difference between the USA and the EU.
Even if those principles were done away with, I can't see a USofE happening. The member states are too different culturally.
"We need a European defence, a European army, not just on paper but a force genuinely capable of operating in the field, including beyond the European borders ... The philosophy behind all these proposals - economic, political, military - is always the same… And I am also quite clear that I am advocating a more powerful Europe, also a more closely integrated Europe ... In short I am advocating a United States of Europe."
- Speech from 2006 by Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt.
The Lisbon Treaty puts us on the path towards A US o E. It is indicated in the Treaty's preamble that the aim is "to advance European integration".
Another reason I'm voting No. I don't believe Irish people struggled so hard to get out of a Superpower Union which wouldn't listen to us, only to go join another Superpower Union that won't listen to us.0 -
Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »"We need a European defence, a European army, not just on paper but a force genuinely capable of operating in the field, including beyond the European borders ... The philosophy behind all these proposals - economic, political, military - is always the same… And I am also quite clear that I am advocating a more powerful Europe, also a more closely integrated Europe ... In short I am advocating a United States of Europe."
- Speech from 2006 by Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt.
The Lisbon Treaty puts us on the path towards A US o E. It is indicated in the Treaty's preamble that the aim is "to advance European integration".
Well, if you want to define a USofE to be an EU that's heavily politically integrated then I guess I might like a USofE. It depends on where you draw the boundaries though.
Normally, I'd take "United States of Europe" to imply a situation where the member states of the EU have the same relationship to the EU as the states of the USA have to their federal government. That's drastically different to even the most politically integrated EU possible.
For me "USofE" is about balance of power, not level of integration.Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »Another reason I'm voting No. I don't believe Irish people struggled so hard to get out of a Superpower Union which wouldn't listen to us, only to go join another Superpower Union that won't listen to us.
We didn't have any voice in the British Empire. We have a considerable voice in the EU. They're not the same. To suggest that they are is either scaremongering or stupidity.0 -
I would be in the same mind as IRLConor, I see the term USofE to refer to the political and societal structure of the USA in Europe. A notion which I reject outright. However I do believe in a strong closely united Europe, one in which member states have a far greater role to play than the states of the US.
The way I look at it there needs to be balance power between the national interest and the interests of all EU citizens. That is why I feel two strong democratic bodies are needed to get the correct balance of power. The two bodies already exist, the councils representing national interests and the European parliament represent what is best for all citizens. However I think the balance needs to be tweaked to give the parliament more executive powers. The commission should be scrapped and replaced by a cabinet of MEP's, much like our own cabinet and their should be a Prime Minister whom together with the cabinet should propose laws. These laws would have to pass both the council and the parliament and should also be vetted by national parliaments so that they are in line with the principle of subsidiary (defined in law).
The EU should also have a single unified defence force. This defence force should be under the management of the Prime Minister but should only be allowed into action by a unanimous vote in the European council. This would make sure that the EU would not get involved in any conflicts that are not absolutely necessary, while also ensuring that it is more than capable of defending itself. Foreign policy should be handled by the EU but should also follow the principle of subsidiary, whereby individual nations can attract foreign investment and tourism independent of the EU itself. Foreign policy would be handled by the EU Prime Minister and the EU foreign minister, but the European council should have the power to intervene in foreign policy decisions by way of QMV.
This structure sufficiently spreads the power of executive and ratification throughout the EU making sure all interests are catered for and decisions are made at the most appropriat and effective level possible.
This is what I would eventually like the EU to end up as but I don't think Europe is ready for it yet. A few things things have to happen first.- English would have to be adopted as the lingua-franca (this is already happening, 89% of schoolchildren in the EU are being taught English)
- Proper political parties would have to form in the European parliament (The current parties are not rigid and strong enough although the are maturing)
- The people would have to become less suspicious of the EU and more patriotic towards it (This would be the most difficult, I think once the pace of change has slowed and stays static for 2 or so decades people will be less paranoid that the EU is trying to take away their freedom. The patriotism will follow as states help each other out in times of need)
- The media will have to follow EU politics and news stories far more. (At the moment the media in all countries don't follow news stories throughout the EU anywhere near enough. This would have to change if citizens are going to become more involved in EU issues and at EU level)
This is my current idea of what the EU should be but it is still evolving as I listen to other peoples opinions and learn more about systems of government. What do you think?0 - English would have to be adopted as the lingua-franca (this is already happening, 89% of schoolchildren in the EU are being taught English)
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Strange how people are talking about a 'counterweight to the US' or 'to pressure Russia and China', what kind of militaristic cold war talk is that?What we need is disintegration into small states as big as your municipality, with direct democracy as in Switzerland, a militia like army and no economic barriers. Look at Switzerland, it works very well. Only then you will get peace and prosperity.
The EU could become a 'Super Switzerland' some day, but Ireland or any of the other EU states will not individually any more than any single Swiss canton would have.I guess 82 years of freedom is enough to wipe it out of the collective memory
Time to grow up, I suggest.0 -
My Ideal E.U is one that helps maintain free trade among it's members and is limited to consultation and suggestion over laws that govern our country. Ideally. Though I'll settle for it not becoming U.S.E.0
This discussion has been closed.
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