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Does Earth belong to ha-satan?

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  • 07-12-2007 3:58pm
    #1
    SubjectSean
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭


    When the adversary is tempting Jesus he offers him all the kingdoms of the Earth. Does this mean the devil is in charge of granting Earthly power or what's the story?


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    #2
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    It's all false promises, I think. He doesn't have to deliver the goods, just tempt the person, (in this case Jesus), into thinking twice about following God.


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    #3
    SubjectSean
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭SubjectSean


    humanji wrote: »
    It's all false promises, I think. He doesn't have to deliver the goods, just tempt the person, (in this case Jesus), into thinking twice about following God.

    I'm seems somewhat foolish on the part of the devil IMO to try and tempt people with items they would know he can't provide. Are you so sure God's adversary is this retarded? If the Devil didn't have the gift of the offer he was making surely Jesus would have contradicted him.


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    #4
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    But surely Jesus being part of the holy trinity(right?), is incapable of any wrong doing. How could the devil not know this?


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    #5
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Satan is described by Jesus as "the ruler of this world" (archon tou kosmou) in John 12:31.

    I have heard a theory explained this way - that Adam & Eve were given authority over the created order, but that they handed that authority over to Satan when they sinned. It's an interesting theory, but seems to me to be reading a lot into a couple of fairly ambiguous references.

    When Satan tempted Jesus he was offering Christ a route to Messiahship without facing the suffering of the Cross. Indeed, when Peter tried to suggest that Christ might avoid the Cross, Jesus replied, "Get behind Me Satan".

    As for whether it was possible for Christ to sin or not - that is an ongoing theological debate. See http://www.planetpapers.com/Assets/2052.php
    Theologians disagree about whether Christ was impeccable or peccable (Latin peccare = 'to sin') and I doubt if we will sort the matter out here on boards.ie The debate is whether it was theoretically possible for Christ to sin or not - both sides agree that he didn't actually sin.

    Of course the day is coming when the world will clearly be seen to belong to Christ, not satan, as expressed in the following verse (which is, of course, wonderfully portrayed in Handel's Messiah): "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever." (Revelation 11:15)


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    #6
    SubjectSean
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭SubjectSean


    PDN wrote: »
    Satan is described by Jesus as "the ruler of this world" (archon tou kosmou) in John 12:31.

    Is this view standard Christian theology? It sounds very Mandean or Gnostic.


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    #7
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    SubjectSean wrote: »
    When the adversary is tempting Jesus he offers him all the kingdoms of the Earth. Does this mean the devil is in charge of granting Earthly power or what's the story?


    He is the 'god of this world. 'friendship with the world is enmity with God'. These are just some lines from scripture that would suggest so. However, just like when I look at myself (the adonis i am:)), or a rose etc I see eveidence of our creation; when I look at the 'world' I see evidence of its ruler, i.e. satan. Could you look around the world today and really say Yehovah is its God? I can't.


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    #8
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    SubjectSean wrote: »
    When the adversary is tempting Jesus he offers him all the kingdoms of the Earth. Does this mean the devil is in charge of granting Earthly power or what's the story?

    In my opinion he's tempting Jesus into abusing His God given powers as Messiah.

    I find your interpretation interesting though PDN, where did you hear that theory?


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    #9
    Vengeance
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Vengeance


    If Christ was God Incarnate, and God specified what sin was and wasn't, then it would be simple for him to change his word.

    I look at it this way- Satan is the accuser of God. Satan, as an angel, a less powerful deity, has neither the comprehension or total omniscience of God. Satan may have accused God of human suffering being pointless and hurtful, and when Satan came to Jesus he saw him starving for forty days. He tempted him to drink in an effort to get God incarnate to see his view.

    God did not concede. God suffered on the cross to show Satan, the accuser, that it would create greater belief in God. It did, but Satan still saw no reason for it to be done that way so he continued to accuse.

    So if Satan is an angel and didn't have the power to overthrow God, then if earth DOES belong to him, it was either God's punishment (to be far from his light) or mistake. And since God doesn't make mistakes (although we are made in his image and frequently do, so that is a debatable point itself) it was probably punishment.

    This makes A LOT of sense to me. I'm agnostic, i've already decided that organised religion is not for me, and that i will try to draw my own conclusions based on any fact i can find.

    Respectfully,
    Vengeance


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